Renting a field

investment

I own some land near a busy school. The field is beside the school and there is a path from the school field that leads into my field. I was told the school children hang around there.

It has come to my attention that the school does not serve hot food anymore. There are over 600 students looking for food

How would I go about renting the field to a chip van and an ice cream van??

Procrastastudy

Daft.ie?

investment

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Daft.ie?

I need the legal info as I have the men with the two vans already

legal info pls

finbarrk

Not sure, but it looks like a money spinner for both of you. I presume it's the insurance issue you are concerned about?
Ask the men what will they offer you to park? The hot food man would be the big earner there. If you get too legal with them lads it's complicated. Try and get your few €s every week off them I'd say.

blueythebear

investment wrote: »

I need the legal info as I have the men with the two vans already

legal info pls

Well legal advice is against the Charter so the above is exactly what you cannot get.

A non-legal issue would be the school's reaction to having a dodgy chip van selling fast food etc so the first step would be to contact the school and make sure they won't prevent students from purchasing food.

However, if that is the case, then the school itself may decide to allow the vans to operate out of the yard to make some money themselves

The other issue is a business one in the sense that the van owners only need the field for an hour a day, 5 days a week so they would be less likely to rent the field outright. If they know their onions, they'll be looking for a license from you to operate out of the field and the amount payable to you for this would be pretty low!

Kosseegan

blueythebear wrote: »

Well legal advice is against the Charter so the above is exactly what you cannot get.

A non-legal issue would be the school's reaction to having a dodgy chip van selling fast food etc so the first step would be to contact the school and make sure they won't prevent students from purchasing food.

However, if that is the case, then the school itself may decide to allow the vans to operate out of the yard to make some money themselves

The other issue is a business one in the sense that the van owners only need the field for an hour a day, 5 days a week so they would be less likely to rent the field outright. If they know their onions, they'll be looking for a license from you to operate out of the field and the amount payable to you for this would be pretty low!

The van owners cannot dictate the rent. The amount they can pay will depend on the profitability of the pitch not on how many hours a day they need it. Their knowledge of onions is irrelevant. In any event a licence is personal to them so they would not be able to build up a business and sell it or pass it on to a family member. They would not welcome competition either.

The main issue I would see is planning permission. A change of use would be needed.

blueythebear

Kosseegan wrote: »

The van owners cannot dictate the rent. The amount they can pay will depend on the profitability of the pitch not on how many hours a day they need it.

Profitability of the pitch is dictated by the number of hours per day they need it of course. This is a field that is presumably just lying there empty (from the OP) so I would have said that the van men would be in a strong negotiating position so that they can dictate the license fee.

Kosseegan wrote: »

Their knowledge of onions is irrelevant.

I hope that's tongue in cheek seeing as knowing one's onions is a turn of phrase...

Kosseegan wrote: »

In any event a licence is personal to them so they would not be able to build up a business and sell it or pass it on to a family member. They would not welcome competition either.

This is a situation in which a chip van is going to operate out of a field for schoolkids during school hours. This is not a viable business in and of itself. Operating the van is the business and the pitches are movable. The license is more appropriate as renting the field outright to the exclusion of the others would cost more. To the OP, renting the field outright would be better for him as he gets more cash, but for the mobile catering operators, issues of liability and insurance come up making it financially unprofitable...


The main issue I would see is planning permission. A change of use would be needed.[/QUOTE]

blueythebear

Kosseegan wrote: »

The van owners cannot dictate the rent. The amount they can pay will depend on the profitability of the pitch not on how many hours a day they need it.

Profitability of the pitch is dictated by the number of hours per day they need it of course. This is a field that is presumably just lying there empty (from the OP) so I would have said that the van men would be in a strong negotiating position so that they can dictate the license fee.

Kosseegan wrote: »

Their knowledge of onions is irrelevant.

I hope that's tongue in cheek seeing as knowing one's onions is a turn of phrase...

Kosseegan wrote: »

In any event a licence is personal to them so they would not be able to build up a business and sell it or pass it on to a family member. They would not welcome competition either.

This is a situation in which a chip van is going to operate out of a field for schoolkids during school hours. This is not a viable business in and of itself. Operating the van is the business and the pitches are movable. The license is more appropriate as renting the field outright to the exclusion of the others would cost more. To the OP, renting the field outright would be better for him as he gets more cash, but for the mobile catering operators, issues of liability and insurance come up making it financially unprofitable...

investment

Kosseegan wrote: »

The van owners cannot dictate the rent. The amount they can pay will depend on the profitability of the pitch not on how many hours a day they need it. Their knowledge of onions is irrelevant. In any event a licence is personal to them so they would not be able to build up a business and sell it or pass it on to a family member. They would not welcome competition either.

The main issue I would see is planning permission. A change of use would be needed.

They chip man has a license to park on the road and sell food..why would I need planning permission??

Would I have to tell the school what the planning permission is for???

The school offered before to rent the field from me....If i rented it to them could i make a contract allowing both parties to use the field?

berrypendel

investment wrote: »

They chip man has a license to park on the road and sell food..

then why would he rent your field?

coylemj

investment wrote: »

The school offered before to rent the field from me....If i rented it to them could i make a contract allowing both parties to use the field?

If you rent the field to the school then you have no say as to who they permit to operate from the field, unless you include specific activities which they may not permit to happen within the field. You seem to be suggesting that you could have your cake and eat it i.e. rent the field to the school and make the burger and ice cream van operators pay you money to operate from the field.

If the school rents the field from you then the van owners will have to negotiate terms with the school, not you.

Kosseegan

investment wrote: »

They chip man has a license to park on the road and sell food..why would I need planning permission??

Would I have to tell the school what the planning permission is for???

The school offered before to rent the field from me....If i rented it to them could i make a contract allowing both parties to use the field?

The local authority has power to allow casual traders in public places. this is exempt from planning. Changing the use from a field which is presumably designated agricultural to a commercial use would require planning permission.

Kosseegan

coylemj wrote: »

If you rent the field to the school then you have no say as to who they permit to operate from the field, unless you include specific activities which they may not permit to happen within the field. You seem to be suggesting that you could have your cake and eat it i.e. rent the field to the school and make the burger and ice cream van operators pay you money to operate from the field.

If the school rents the field from you then the van owners will have to negotiate terms with the school, not you.

It is quite normal in commercial leases to restrict the activities of the tenant to particular activities. In shopping centers this is vital as the mix of tenants is regarded as important. A restaurant cannot start selling shoes without the permission of the centre owner.

investment

This is the plan..

I will rent 15 percent of the field to the chip van and ice cream van and sweet van

I will mark the ground where they have to park everyday

I will rent the other 85 percent of the field to the school and let them insure it for themselves

The field is not used for agriculture...so I should not need planning permission

Will I need to pay tax?

CIARAN_BOYLE

investment wrote: »

Will I need to pay tax?

yep

investment

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

yep

what percent?

coylemj

Kosseegan wrote: »

It is quite normal in commercial leases to restrict the activities of the tenant to particular activities. In shopping centers this is vital as the mix of tenants is regarded as important. A restaurant cannot start selling shoes without the permission of the centre owner.

Except this is not a unit in a shopping centre is it? Why would the OP rent out a field with a restriction on what the tenant can or cannot do with it?

Milk & Honey

investment wrote: »

This is the plan..


The field is not used for agriculture...so I should not need planning permission

Will I need to pay tax?

What is the zoning for the field? Has there ever been a grant of planning permission in respect of the field? Is there planning permission dividing the field into two planning units?

If you have S23 type allowances you may be able to shelter rental income.

Kosseegan

coylemj wrote: »

Except this is not a unit in a shopping centre is it? Why would the OP rent out a field with a restriction on what the tenant can or cannot do with it?

It would be very odd for a landlord not to restrict a tenant as regards to the use to which he puts a property. Reasons would be to avoid a breach of planning permission, to avoid causing a nuisance to neighbours, to avoid damage to the property e.g. spills etc.

Procrastastudy

If you build it they will come...

Sorry I've been trying to resist that for two days now

CIARAN_BOYLE

investment wrote: »

what percent?

rental income - any expenses that you pay to rent the property out is added onto your income and you pay the rate as your income tax, be that 0%, 21% or 41%. Hire a tax consultant if you want more information.