If you drink alcohol, yet you are against other drugs...

Sindri

I'll just clarify my position on the legalisation of drugs.

I think all illegal recreational drugs should be decriminalised. I feel offenders should be sent to rehab as it's cheaper and has lower re-offending rates and is thus even cheaper (that's an argument for America). Our system for heroin users should follow that of Australia's and Switzerland's.

Certain drugs I feel should be legalised, I feel certain drugs should not be. I think there would be a huge rise in the use of opiates (believe me I've used opiates) there is only addiction with opiates. And I feel that such drugs would be marketed to the socially disadvantaged perpetuating a cycle of poverty, if you look at Afghanistan and see how the use of heroin as risen substantially since the war began, along with the population of Kabul, things will not be good there for a very long time. Opiates are extremely dangerous and highly addictive and I think, practically, their legalisation would be the knell for the socially disadvantaged. Crime and poverty rates would soar I think. Users should be treated to an exceptional standard and our system could learn a lot off of other countries that I have mentioned above, but legalisation of opiate derivatives IMO would be counter-productive and would just be an accident waiting to happen. If anyone has ever been addicted and has abused opiates in that they were not functional users of opiates you would understand.

People can be functional users, even though usually it turns into abuse and the only reason I am opposed to the legalisation of opiates is because of my perceived negative effects it would have on the socially disadvantaged.

I would only be in favour of legalisation of opiates on certain conditions, two important ones would be:

That we had a proper system for treating users - we don't.

That they could not be advertised.

Defiler Of The Coffin

If alcohol was made illegal in the morning would certain people in this thread remain on their high horse and chose not to consume it because it was illegal? Or would they complain that their freedom to alter their consciousness (in a responsible manner of course) was being unjustly encroached upon by the government?

The drugs laws in the this country are a joke. It has made the situation worse. Serious reform is needed, but it doesn't seem like we are capable of mature debate on the topic.

Cú Giobach

paddyandy wrote: »

Doc is correct and one drug is not like another .Their effect and cultures are very different.

Of course all drugs are different, but you cannot define "use" or "abuse" by the type of drug, but rather by how that drug is used.

Chuck Stone

Sindri wrote: »

if you look at Afghanistan and see how the use of heroin as risen substantially since the war began, along with the population of Kabul, things will not be good there for a very long time.

Wouldn't the rates of use in Afghanistan be related to poverty, war stress, lack of education and general hopelessness? I guess what I'm saying is that perhaps it's the circumstances leading to the opiate abuse and not vice versa?

Opiates are extremely dangerous and highly addictive and I think, practically, their legalisation would be the knell for the socially disadvantaged. Crime and poverty rates would soar I think.

The counter argument to this is that if opiates were legalised the price would come down drastically so addicts would be less likely to need money from crime to feed a habit.

Another counter argument is that if half the money spent on prohibition was spent on addiction services, regulation, and public information campaigns on the potential harm of drugs that the rates of users would be reduced over time.

If anyone has ever been addicted and has abused opiates in that they were not functional users of opiates you would understand.

Was on Codeine for 6 weeks with severe back pain and hated the side effects and weird buzz off it. I think it's an opiate?

I would only be in favour of legalisation of opiates on certain conditions, two important ones would be:

That we had a proper system for treating users - we don't.

That they could not be advertised.

I'd agree that the more potentially addictive the drug the more it should be hard to acquire but I'd still rather it was removed from the 'sphere of business' of street thugs and that addicts are treated as people in need of help rather than criminals.

paddyandy

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Of course all drugs are different, but you cannot define "use" or "abuse" by the type of drug, but rather by how that drug is used.

The Mentality is different .

Defiler Of The Coffin

paddyandy wrote: »

The Mentality is different .

Exactly. Alcohol users are far more irresponsible

TheZohanS

Had a look at that graph about how addictive drugs are, to be honest I was very surprised at cannabis. I was a regular smoker a few years ago, when I decided to quit it was a pain in the ass and I only smoked one or two j's a night.

AngryBollix

Sindri wrote: »

Not really, alcohol can have medicinal benefits.

The best cure for a hangover known to man

snowfinch

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

If alcohol was made illegal in the morning would certain people in this thread remain on their high horse and chose not to consume it because it was illegal? Or would they complain that their freedom to alter their consciousness (in a responsible manner of course) was being unjustly encroached upon by the government?

The drugs laws in the this country are a joke. It has made the situation worse. Serious reform is needed, but it doesn't seem like we are capable of mature debate on the topic.

Answer to the first question: Yes. I would also complain (As I don't believe prohibition is effective) but abstain in the meantime as I could never justify my money going to criminals.

I don't need alcohol much or at all really so not having it isn't a big deal. I never drink it to alter my consciousness (I never get drunk or drink to relax/unwind). For me it is about matching wines or beer to food. Thankfully, enjoying these things this way isn't illegal, but if it were I could easily do without. The alternative is to fund criminals and I could never justify that to myself.

mikom

foxyboxer wrote: »

Oh how I long for the day when I go to a dinner party and be asked.

"Will you have just a line or a speedball foxy?"

:rolleyes:

At dinner party, "Will you have just a line or a speedball foxy?"........ will be treated with the same upturned nose as "Will you have a tequila slammer or a flaming sambuca shot".
That is unless the parties you frequent consist of a supermacs shnackbox.

TheZohan wrote: »

Had a look at that graph about how addictive drugs are, to be honest I was very surprised at cannabis. I was a regular smoker a few years ago, when I decided to quit it was a pain in the ass and I only smoked one or two j's a night.

I quit caffeine about a month ago and had banging headache for two days after.
I similarly was without green for a while and had neither a pain in the head or ass.
Weird that.

Temptamperu

AngryBollix wrote: »

Alcohol can be enjoyed and is not harmful as long as it is consumed in a responsible manner. More importantly its legal

And weed cant? Most smokers I know only really have a spliff after the pub at the weekends and one fellow in particular really wishes he could smoke it and not get high.

I dont smoke by the way, I used to but i'm saving so I quit it for a while, cold turkey same with alcohol. I had no problem giving up the weed. Alcohol is very difficult to quit i am still having cravings for booze 7 months later.

ntlbell

foxyboxer wrote: »

Oh how I long for the day when I go to a dinner party and be asked.

"Will you have just a line or a speedball foxy?"

:rolleyes:

If I drink caffeine which is a drug but abhor and condone Heroin use, does that make me a hyprocrite?

Not so much a hypo but more of an ignorant uneducated narrow minded "norm"

so to speak.

ItsAWindUp

AngryBollix wrote: »

The best cure for a hangover known to man

No way, it only prolongs the agony

TheZohanS

mikom wrote: »

I quit caffeine about a month ago and had banging headache for two days after.
I similarly was without green for a while and had neither a pain in the head or ass.
Weird that.

Ah yeah, I'm like a bastard without my coffee. The only thing that would stop me drinking several cups each day would be a hangover. I'd take a j over a nights drinking anytime but unfortunately that's not the way society is set up over here.

ntlbell

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

No way, it only prolongs the agony

Not if you do it right

mongdesade

Sindri wrote: »

Not really, alcohol can have medicinal benefits.

So does cannabis, morphine, LSD...

Sindri

mongdesade wrote: »

So does cannabis, morphine, LSD...

But not as beneficial as that of alcohol in moderation.

And of course all drugs have medicinal benefits and medical applications.

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

But not as beneficial as that of alcohol in moderation.

Depends how much pain your in.

foxyboxer

ntlbell wrote: »

Not so much a hypo but more of an ignorant uneducated narrow minded "norm"

so to speak.

Please elaborate.

swimming in a sea

drugs BAD, alcohol GOOD, do what the government tells you!!!!!

Now bend over:eek:

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

Depends how much pain your in.

Eh no your wrong, it has nothing to do with pain, that's a bit naive, did you read the thread, I have a link in one of my posts, which I posted twice, showing this.

IrishJack89

Both have their downsides but you can't compare alcohol to the likes of heroin, coke, ecstacy. Cannabis is fine, theres no harm in that, if anything its only proven good but heroin is more addictive then alchol and thus can f**k your life up, e's, coke, etc have you feeling like something your not to more of an extent then alcohol that is. Thats why there illegal really nd probably rightly so. But they should legalise cannabis, anyone who smokes or has been to amsterdam will agree with me on that one, pure chilled and peaceful

ntlbell

foxyboxer wrote: »

Please elaborate.

I thought it was fairly straight forward.

Society says this is fine...we can do this.

sheep go do this.

Society deems the alternative not so fine.

Be it canabis,speed,coke,acid, e etc

sheep don't do that.

With no experience, no education bar someone told them it was wrong/bad etc.

Congratulations, you're normal.

It's nothing to be ashamed about, you're the majority.

average_runner

Technically sugar/salt etc are drugs too, so is the whole world hyprocrites?

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

Eh no your wrong, it has nothing to do with pain, that's a bit naive, did you read the thread, I have a link in one of my posts, which I posted twice, showing this.

well if I'm crying in pain of chronic disease x

alcohol in moderation won't be of any medical benefit.

but if in the situation cannabis or any HTC based product relives me said pain.

why would drinking in moderation here be of a a more medical benefit

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

well if I'm crying in pain of chronic disease x

alcohol in moderation won't be of any medical benefit.

but if in the situation cannabis or any HTC based product relives me said pain.

why would drinking in moderation here be of a a more medical benefit

Medical benefit is not down exclusively to pain.

That is just funny that you thought so.



FIND THE LINK READ THE THREAD.

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

Medical benefit is not down exclusively to pain.

That is just funny that you thought so.



FIND THE LINK READ THE THREAD.

I never mentioned exclusivity.

so you can't make a general statement about alcohol being of a more medical benefit.

funny..right.

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

I never mentioned exclusivity.

so you can't make a general statement about alcohol being of a more medical benefit.

funny..right.

Yes you can as it actually has more medical benefits than marijuana, or morphine or LSD.
:pac:

GAWD, READ THE FUCKING LINK OR ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF NAVIGATING THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE INTERNET?

ItsAWindUp

ntlbell wrote: »

Not if you do it right

Go on then

seanbmc

You'll never change some people's views on recreational drugs and I don't think any of them will ever be made legal.

We go out every weekend, get ridiculously drunk, pass out ,wake up and laugh it off saying it was a great night, this obviously can't be good for your health, but we see it as the norm.

If you were to call someone an alcoholic who is always up for a session or craving a pint, they jump down your throat. Then they think it's alright to label someone a stoner just because they enjoy a few joints at the weekend.

Sindri

Here is the link just for you to read.


More benefits than (as I know of the top of my head)

Morphine-Pain relief

LSD-Possibly may be affective in cancer treatment

Marijuana-Pain Relief, Anxiety relief, Possible host of other problems associated with it.

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

Yes you can as it actually has more medical benefits than marijuana, or morphine or LSD.
:pac:

GAWD, READ THE FUCKING LINK OR ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF NAVIGATING THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE INTERNET?

not if you're in f*cking pain!

christ all mighty like.

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

Here is the link just for you to read.


More benefits than (as I know of the top of my head)

Morphine-Pain relief

LSD-Possibly may be affective in cancer treatment

Marijuana-Pain Relief, Anxiety relief, Possible host of other problems associated with it.

This is referring to "health" not medical usage.

giving peach snapps to a dieing cancer paitient won't do **** all now will it bosco

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

not if you're in f*cking pain!

christ all mighty like.

I don't understand?

What are you getting at?

ntlbell

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Go on then

You drink small amounts over an extended period of time.

e.g. you don't go back out get smashed again then wake up with X 2 hangover.

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

This is referring to "health" not medical usage.

giving peach snapps to a dieing cancer paitient won't do **** all now will it bosco

They are medicinal benefits, as I said, don't know how this is beyond your comprehension?

And the substances you listed treat cancer how?

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

I don't understand?

What are you getting at?

RETARD A IS IN POXY PAIN.

we give retard A a malibu

won't help

we give retard A HTC based product = medical benefit.

really?

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

RETARD A IS IN POXY PAIN.

we give retard A a malibu

won't help

we give retard A HTC based product = medical benefit.

really?

Yes but over all alcohol has more medical benefits. Did you read the link?


:eek::pac:

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

They are medicinal benefits, as I said, don't know how this is beyond your comprehension?

And the substances you listed treat cancer how?

morphine will treat the pain of the cancer = medical benifit.

eating cabbage and sprouts = health benifit cancer prevetion etc

is this beyond your comprehension?

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

Yes but over all alcohol has more medical benefits. Did you read the link?


:eek::pac:

kleefarr

Naomi00 wrote: »

Guinness is rich in iron, they used to give out free pints to people after donating blood.

Wrong.
It has some Iron, but not much at all.

You'd need to drink three pints of Guinness to provide the same amount of iron as a single egg yolk (1.1mg), and alcohol is not good for babies. A pint of Guinness contains 0.3mg of iron, less than three per cent of daily adult needs. Put another way, you'd need to drink 15 pints of Guinness to get the same amount of iron as two Weetabix.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1222684/Dont-believe-say--Guinness-isnt-good-you.html#ixzz1lneo4MTL

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

You didn't read the link.

What is wrong with you.

You list medical benefits of marijuana and then of the prevention of cancer from eating certain foods.

Did you read the link? All the health preventative benefits. Of dementia and Diabetes, of living longer?

Living longer, not a discernible health benefit, no.

ntlbell

Sindri wrote: »

You didn't read the link.

What is wrong with you.

You list medical benefits of marijuana and then of the prevention of cancer from eating certain foods.

Did you read the link? All the health preventative benefits. Of dementia and Diabetes, of living longer?

Living longer, not a discernible health benefit, no.

health benifit != medical benifit.

giving some ****er a sprout in the bed with cancer won't do **** all

it may be a health benifit before having cancer.

now the morphine comes in and is more of medical benifit than alchol or anything else.

now **** off while i bang up.

Cú Giobach

Sindri wrote: »

Living longer, not a discernible health benefit, no.

More time to do drugs??

Sindri

ntlbell wrote: »

health benifit != medical benifit.

giving some ****er a sprout in the bed with cancer won't do **** all

it may be a health benifit before having cancer.

now the morphine comes in and is more of medical benifit than alchol or anything else.

now **** off while i bang up.

Yes, but that is to prevent pain only.

Alcohol has many many more benefits over a wider range of afflictions.

IrishEyes19

Are you actually comparing drinking alcohol to using herion, cocaine...ect....

The thing is, OP, most if not the majority of people can enjoy a causal few drinks out and not descend into alcoholism.

Yet the majority of heroin users effectively destroy their own lives and others. Correct me if I'm wrong. Alcoholism is terrible and for those who turn into alcoholics, its devestating, but most people can enjoy alcohol safely, bar some who cant.

The use of hard drugs like Heroin have immediate disasterous results on someone. And the studies of cocaine ect.....have proven results of mental disorders occuring due to its usage.

So no, it's not hypocritical. Alcohol has been deemed safe to consume as long as you adhere to the guidelines in place on how much you consume. But considering how addictive Heroin and other hard drugs are, there is a reason why they are not legal.

So is it really that shocking that someone might look down on a person who has destroyed their life with heroin when its been made perfectly clear how destructive the drug is. People who are alcoholics aren't exactly looked at as nicely either. The fact is, people look down at how people have abused something to the extent that their lives are ruined. So naturally, why would you begrudge someone enjoying one glass of wine or a beer ect. If heroin ect could be enjoyed safely without serious consequences, it would be exactly the same. but the fact is, its not.

ntlbell

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

Are you actually comparing drinking alcohol to using herion, cocaine...ect....

The thing is, OP, most if not the majority of people can enjoy a causal few drinks out and not descend into alcoholism.

Yet the majority of heroin users effectively destroy their own lives and others. Correct me if I'm wrong. Alcoholism is terrible and for those who turn into alcoholics, its devestating, but most people can enjoy it safely, bar some who cant.

The use of hard drugs like Heroin have immediate disasterous results on someone. And the studies of cocaine ect.....have proven results of mental disorders occuring due to its usage.

So no, it's not hypocritical. Alcohol has been deemed safe to consume as long as you adhere to the guidelines in place on how much you consume. But considering how addictive Heroin and other hard drugs are, there is a reason why they are not legal.

So is it really that shocking that someone might look down on a person who has destroyed their life with heroin when its been made perfectly clear how destructive the drug is. People who are alcoholics aren't exactly looked at as nicely either. The fact is, people look down at how people have abused something to the extent that their lives are ruined. So naturally, why would you begrudge someone enjoying one glass of wine or a beer ect. If heroin ect could be enjoyed safely without serious consequences, it would be exactly the same. but the fact is, its not.

why do you keep banging on about heroin?

Why can someone not go out and casually have a joint or two?

snort a few lines?

drop an acid or E enjoy their night and go home?

Alcohol obviously because of the larger user base ruins more famlies and homes and lives than any other drug.

why harp on about heroin?

Conzea

seanbmc wrote: »

You'll never change some people's views on recreational drugs and I don't think any of them will ever be made legal.

We go out every weekend, get ridiculously drunk, pass out ,wake up and laugh it off saying it was a great night, this obviously can't be good for your health, but we see it as the norm.

If you were to call someone an alcoholic who is always up for a session or craving a pint, they jump down your throat. Then they think it's alright to label someone a stoner just because they enjoy a few joints at the weekend.

So true
Personally I have nothing against rec drug use, no one can convince me that Cannabis is as damaging as alcohol. However it would surprise if Cocaine,Heroin etc did not have damaging health consequences. Having said that, I think that choice should be made by the person not the Goverment.


Really original argument don't you think.

Goverment=bad,sinister conspiracy
Drugs=Good place with topless women and edible rainbows.

ntlbell

alcohol is a depressant and can have very negative effects on mental health issues or even ignite underlying ones.

You can overdose and kill yourself, nearly every time someone exceeds a fairly low dosage of alcohol they put them selves into situations and take risks that otherwise would never occur.

It can be addicitve, it kills thousands of people every year. blah blah blah

but it's grand! the government who make billions from the taxes say it's ok.

I can't recall ever seeing someone start an argument/fight etc after smoking a joint, taking an E snorting speed etc.

But every weekend the city is tormented with these drunken idiots.

foxyboxer

I feel that Chill Pills ought to be legalised too.