LPG (autogas) Garages around Dublin?

kerten

Matt Simis wrote: »

Bad choice of reference site unfortunately.
Google deeper, that guy and that site are well known and not in a good way! What would the calorific value have to do with combustion temp vs petrol!? They burn different temps as they are different fuels and LPG burns more slowly.

http://www.teamgreenautogas.com.au/default.asp?id=FAQ#ans27
http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6909&start=0
http://www.exceptionalenergy.com/en_GB/media-room/q-a

The difference in temp is actually minimal, but in car conversions its definitely hotter, not cooler.

+1

LPG definitely runs hotter than petrol. I know cases in my home country about melting valves(aluminum alloy ones mainly) after LPG conversion due to higher temperature. That issue was specific to certain engines though.

mullingar

OK, after a lot more reading lpg does burn cooler, about 50C, but has very poor cooling properties when vapurised which results in a net raise of temperature in the engine .

This apparently is what damages valve seals.

Open to correction!!!

keithclancy

mullingar wrote: »

OK, after a lot more reading lpg does burn cooler, about 50C, but has very poor cooling properties when vapurised which results in a net raise of temperature in the engine .

This apparently is what damages valve seals.

Open to correction!!!

AFAIK its due the the Lubrication properties, in certain engines you need to stick in an additive

Something like this:
http://www.flashlube.com/en/products/valve-saver-fluid.html

On the Dutch forums i've heard its the Jap and Ford engines are more prone to Valve problems after LPG/CNG Conversion.

kerten

keithclancy wrote: »

AFAIK its due the the Lubrication properties, in certain engines you need to stick in an additive

Something like this:
http://www.flashlube.com/en/products/valve-saver-fluid.html

On the Dutch forums i've heard its the Jap and Ford engines are more prone to Valve problems after LPG/CNG Conversion.

+1

As far as I know LPG doesn't have lubrication(means cooling down chamber) capabilities of Petrol and this exposes valves to higher temperature as well.

So overall I would expect to loose about 10-15 % mpg yes ?

Some people convert high power 6 pot + engines, but surely the fuel consumption would hardly be worth it ?

So I should not consider converting my prius if Jap cars are having problems with it ?

It's easy for me to get 62 mpg in the prius, if that was even 50 mpg on lpg that would make for very cheap motoring + the electric motor gives a lot of torque lessening the effect of power loss ?

So we could say that the 69 cent per litre from vv-tech in Kilcullen would work out a real 75 cent or so, still really cheap !

Until the Government cops on that is!

Matt Simis

keithclancy wrote: »

AFAIK its due the the Lubrication properties, in certain engines you need to stick in an additive

Something like this:
http://www.flashlube.com/en/products/valve-saver-fluid.html

On the Dutch forums i've heard its the Jap and Ford engines are more prone to Valve problems after LPG/CNG Conversion.

I dont know if Flashlube is needed over here though. In Oz they have cars running solely on LPG (in EU virtually all run both and start on petrol) and most of their engines are US centric, a market with no LPG penetration at all vs Euro engines which likely have some greater tolerance.

Having another fluid injected and the mechanism to do this adds complexity and expense. The mechanics I spoke to recommended dosing the petrol with Dipetane and consuming a full tank of petrol for every 10LPG fills.. though this only came up as I asked specifically about Flashlube/LPG lubrication last year.

Deleted User wrote: »

So overall I would expect to loose about 10-15 % mpg yes ?
Some people convert high power 6 pot + engines, but surely the fuel consumption would hardly be worth it ?
So I should not consider converting my prius if Jap cars are having problems with it ?

It's easy for me to get 62 mpg in the prius, if that was even 50 mpg on lpg that would make for very cheap motoring + the electric motor gives a lot of torque lessening the effect of power loss ?

I think your maths are completely backwards on this one. IMO, it only makes sense on high power vehicles as their MPG is so low any saving in economy (the $$ kind) makes a massive difference. On a Prius this is utterly pointless, you are way into diminishing returns already, the time to repay the cost of retrofitting would be off the wall. It also might not work well with the start stop, electric motor running etc aspect of the car. Its just a terrible platform for conversion.

Put in the figures here and see yourself: fuel.netcessible.com

keithclancy

Matt Simis wrote: »

I think your maths are completely backwards on this one. IMO, it only makes sense on high power vehicles as their MPG is so low any saving in economy (the $$ kind) makes a massive difference. On a Prius this is utterly pointless, you are way into diminishing returns, the time to repay the cost of retrofitting would be off the wall.

Put in the figures here and see yourself: fuel.netcessible.com

+1, was in a Station one day and saw a guy filling a Prius at the LPG pump.

Asked the guy and basically he converted it to LPG because the Prius as a Hybrid incurrs no Motor Tax, but he has no boot and the thing carrying batteries, petrol and a 50liter LPG Tank is as slow as anything.

Well that's a 91 cent in the difference at current petrol prices, even at 20% efficiency loss that's a massive saving.

If the conversion costs 1 grand from vv-tech and we do 20k-30k miles a year the conversion is paid back in just over 6 months and pure profit after that!

Other than that electric is the cheapest way forward, by a hefty margin again. 1.80 per 60 miles at 65 mph in the Nissan Leaf or 1.80 for 100 miles at 45-50 mph. It doesn't get cheaper than that!

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

Well that's a 91 cent in the difference at current petrol prices, even at 20% efficiency loss that's a massive saving.

If the conversion costs 1 grand from vv-tech and we do 20k-30k miles a year the conversion is paid back in just over 6 months and pure profit after that!

Other than that electric is the cheapest way forward, by a hefty margin again. 1.80 per 60 miles at 65 mph in the Nissan Leaf or 1.80 for 100 miles at 45-50 mph. It doesn't get cheaper than that!

Pure Profit ? More like Pure saving, your not making any money your saving it

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

Pure Profit ? More like Pure saving, your not making any money your saving it

LOL indeed, I stand corrected!

True though all I got to look at is how long it takes to pay back the conversion.

If it costs me 55 euro's a week on petrol. Then that's 1300 over 6 months 2600 over 1 year maybe more maybe less, but we drive a minimum of 20k miles a year!

To pop into Kilcullen on the way home from Dublin is a small inconvenience to me, it's on the old N9 perfect!

If they had an place in Carlow even better!

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

+1, was in a Station one day and saw a guy filling a Prius at the LPG pump.

Asked the guy and basically he converted it to LPG because the Prius as a Hybrid incurrs no Motor Tax, but he has no boot and the thing carrying batteries, petrol and a 50liter LPG Tank is as slow as anything.

HAHA I found a correction for you too. The prius does have road tax, I pay 380 on the old engine size because it's a 07, then it's emissions based from 08.

The prius has as much room as any car even counting the small little battery behind the back seat. In fact it is a fairly decent size car.

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA I found a correction for you too. The prius does have road tax, I pay 380 on the old engine size because it's a 07, then it's emissions based from 08.

The prius has as much room as any car even counting the small little battery behind the back seat. In fact it is a fairly decent size car.

Here in NL the Prius and other Hybrids are BPM free and was Motor Tax free, think the new model incurs 150/quarter or something thereabouts

The reason he had no boot is becuase he had to put the LPG Tank somewhere.

You could get one of these:


But its a bit small

Yeah it looks a bit small, filling stations are few, so it would need to be big enough.

I don't know if it would be worth it to convert the prius, it being an 07 and I probably wouldn't keep it too long. I want to get a leaf when they come down in price as that is the ultimate cheap way to drive!

dainius

Inbred wrote: »

Does anybody know what's the story after having the stuff installed? I mean, like the NCT/tax/insurance. I fancy a jap petrol car and the LPG appeals (there's a filling station nearby here).

there is one little proplem with japs and fords on LPG-the valve seats burn in 20-40k kms. The replacement involves removing the cylinder head and the bill will be around 500-800 euro, depending on the garage. Once replaced, wont happen again. If you drive a jap car, its worth converting. if you consider buying a jap to convert to lpg-add extra money to you conversion cost

dainius

fryup wrote: »

does LPG cars lack.....power

big car with 1.6 engine on lpg will sure lack power-approx 10% less. 2.0L engine wont feel the diference

How about the 1.4 turbo petrols 120-140 hp from vag and fiat ?

dainius

Deleted User wrote: »

How about the 1.4 turbo petrols 120-140 hp from vag and fiat ?

Simple rule-if the car lacks power on petrol that makes you want to jump out and kick it in the back while driving, it will lack slightly more on LPG. If the car has enough power to overtake other cars or go up the hill with 2 extra passengers, then you are fine

ciaranmul

So would you recommend converting a 2004 Ford F150 5.4 to LPG or would the valves burn on this also??

dainius

ciaranmul wrote: »

So would you recommend converting a 2004 Ford F150 5.4 to LPG or would the valves burn on this also??

Hell yeah. By the time they will burn you'd save 4 times the repair cost. On the other hand-F150 is an american ford, so valve seats may not be an issue.

Our man in Havana

Got my RAV4 converted to gas yesterday, cost €550. Fully automated system, 50 litre tank. Costs me €30 to fill it. Gas is €0.65 a litre here but that is still less than half the price of petrol. Only con is the tank is in the boot.

Eric Cartman

after being in an LPG S8 today im convinced, the install is clean and well done (spare wheel tank) and theres definitley plenty of power from LPG

mfceiling

Anan1 wrote: »

?? It'll run on petrol too, surely?

It will....but you'd need a mortgage to run it...

fasttalkerchat

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Got my RAV4 converted to gas yesterday, cost €550. Fully automated system, 50 litre tank. Costs me €30 to fill it. Gas is €0.65 a litre here but that is still less than half the price of petrol. Only con is the tank is in the boot.

Without breaking advertising rules could you tell me where you got the conversion done? That's very cheap. Do you have the certificate?

PM me if necessary.
Thanks.

Inbred

That's what I'd love to know too. Such a good deal, please PM me with details when you have a minute :-)

Our man in Havana

Unless you are planning to drive 3000 KM it won't be such a good deal.

Lads look at my location.

Inbred

Yeah, noticed that once the message was sent. Oh well, once a fool always a fool ;-)

fasttalkerchat

Havana's not in Bulgaria... conversions here start at 1000 sterling!

mullingar

l_aga wrote: »

This list is out of date unfortunately.
There is a map of LPG stations http://maps.google.pl/maps/ms?msid=211683993263980312898.0004b49a2322303a2048b&msa=0
being developed by Polish people.
Green - LPG stations confirmed (people tanked there)
Blue - locations found on the Internet - not confirmed yet.

Maybe you know any other locations we could add to this map?

Just realised someone updated the map and Mullingar now has a confirmed LPG outlet, Maxol.

Robbing fcekers. Looking for €1.09/litre:eek:

mullingar

mullingar wrote: »

Just realised someone updated the map and Mullingar now has a confirmed LPG outlet, Maxol.

Robbing fcekers. Looking for €1.09/litre:eek:

That's why I'm a big believer in electric vehicles. Electricity is cheap, and some people believe the government will increase taxes on ev's in the future. If so then you have the option to install solar p.v or wind to balance it out and make your other energy costs cheaper.

fasttalkerchat

mullingar wrote: »

Just realised someone updated the map and Mullingar now has a confirmed LPG outlet, Maxol.

Robbing fcekers. Looking for €1.09/litre:eek:

There's one in Kinnegad. Not sure if its the same one that is on the Mullingar list.