The dreaded 'right of way'

Ford4000

Right lads il try to explain best i can

2 fields 2 different owners, 1 at roadside, into the field A at the roadside there is a gate and across that field there is a gate to get into the next field B, at the top of field B there is an access/right of way marked on the old maps, accross field A between the two fields there is no right of way or track marked.
Years ago the owner of field A allowed the owner of field B to cross his field with a donkey and cart but nothing in writing has ever been signed up etc etc
The new owner of field B says there is a right of way accross and has mangled farmer A's gate pillars and gate and ploughed up his field to get accross to his own, Farmer B has already fallen out with the owner of the house which is beside the proper right of way and wont come into his field via the proper entrance.

what would the legal standing be on this has anyone any idea, could Farmer A just wire up the access between the 2 fields?? Would i be correct in saying years ago a donkey and cart - gentlemans agreement prevailed, would this have a standing in court as it seems thats the way its going?
Any thoughts appreciated

The Bull McCabe comes into mind:o

leg wax

i would fence off a path to give access to field b,and if complaints came in court i would explain that this was the only way to keep field a stock proof due to damage done on roadside gates and piers,and the width of roadway would be the same width as enterence into field b.he has a right of way from what i can see,i would just try and stop him from messing up the whole field by driveing across.

Tipp Man

you need good legal advice

Ford4000

Tipp Man wrote: »

you need good legal advice

Well its not me, tis a mate a mine
I know well he is lookin into legal advice
Just thought maybe some a ye had come accross the like of this before and might know the outcome !

Attie

Ford
Ran into this many years ago cost lot of punts to settle I bought the land which rendered the right of way useless.
Months later I ran into a old Gent in pub one night he knew lots about the said right of way told me that there was no right of way as people had to ask permission to cross land.
This would have been useful before court case.

Your friend might be as well looking for the likes of the old Gent whom tried to help me

Hope this helps some attie.

Longford Leader

Never get a chance to post much.

Anyway, we had something similar.

Our lands are between the road and the neighbours land.
He is actually land locked from any road.

The official right of way is at the end of a long lane way (width of a cart)
and then through another neighbours field before he gets to his.

To get to his land the official way would take him 35mins in a tractor, crossing the top of our field takes him four mins.

So for the last sixty years or so he crosses our land during the summer months (verbal agreement). I grew up with this being the normal procedure.

It was only when I starting getting the land transfered into my name, I mentioned this to the solicitor and he went bananas .

The end result was a big long legal letter that he had to sign stating that he acknowledges that there is no right of way through our land in the past or present.

He signed it no problem.

Morale of the storey, make sure your solicitor knows everything about your land.

miller50841

Sounds like a person out of rte I wont say who but P claimed sqautters rights on neighbours land which he had let use. If there is no access on map for your friends field to be used by other land owner put up a proper gate and chain it up. Have the person done for trespassing if they enter the field again.

MOSSAD

Ford4000 wrote: »

Right lads il try to explain best i can

2 fields 2 different owners...

If the gate/pillars were there when the donkey and cart went through, and if one accepts there's a r of way,then that was the entrance width, he has no right to widen it, and any damage must be paid for.
The track must be reinstated by the user if he damages it.
You could argue that you gave him permission/licence to cross the field, which means you did not grant a right of way.
It's a dirty business- had right of way problems across my property, but the other guy mended his manners when cautioned by detectives for damaging property.

razor8

most rights of ways should be marked up on the land registry maps

one example i dealt with below

Full right and liberty for

---

the Commissioner
Administering the affairs of the

---

Board of Health and
Public assistance and his and their licensees to pass and repass
over the property herein on foot and with or without horses and
carts or other vehicles at all times and for all purposes by the
way coloured yellow on Plan 1 thereof.

this was entered in the 1940's and allowed access to a lake

Bodacious

MOSSAD wrote: »

If the gate/pillars were there when the donkey and cart went through, and if one accepts there's a r of way,then that was the entrance width, he has no right to widen it, and any damage must be paid for.
The track must be reinstated by the user if he damages it.
You could argue that you gave him permission/licence to cross the field, which means you did not grant a right of way.
It's a dirty business- had right of way problems across my property, but the other guy mended his manners when cautioned by detectives for damaging property.

Yep i agree with this and a case local to me went the same way in court 8 feet agreed as an old right of way and absolutley not an inch wider

crackcrack30

Guys,
When is the deadline for registering ROW's. & What if the ajoining landowners refuse to agree/sign on longestablished and used ROW's..?

One of mine has marked lanes on historical maps but we dont talk/agree with the new owner.....:rolleyes:

MOSSAD

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Guys,
When is the deadline for registering ROW's. & What if the ajoining landowners refuse to agree/sign on longestablished and used ROW's..?

One of mine has marked lanes on historical maps but we dont talk/agree with the new owner.....:rolleyes:

December 2012. You get a map and clearly mark out your right of way, and give it to your neighbour outlining the uses of the easement. If there is mutual agreement, it has to be signed off on by the person over whose property you have the easement. That's the easiest way.
Check out this article too for the more formal way of doing it.
it's a good idea to get an engineer to do a survey of the easement i.e. measurement of length/width/current state and also take some photos for your files.

newmug

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Guys,
When is the deadline for registering ROW's. & What if the ajoining landowners refuse to agree/sign on longestablished and used ROW's..?

One of mine has marked lanes on historical maps but we dont talk/agree with the new owner.....:rolleyes:

Deadline? WTF is this all about?

Username John

newmug wrote: »

Deadline? WTF is this all about?

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/green-light-for-simpler-right-of-way-registration-2806966.html

Doesnt give too much detail - am sure there is more detail somewhere. But gives the back ground to Dec 2012 deadline.

Farmer Pudsey

Ford4000 wrote: »

Right lads il try to explain best i can

2 fields 2 different owners, 1 at roadside, into the field A at the roadside there is a gate and across that field there is a gate to get into the next field B, at the top of field B there is an access/right of way marked on the old maps, accross field A between the two fields there is no right of way or track marked.
Years ago the owner of field A allowed the owner of field B to cross his field with a donkey and cart but nothing in writing has ever been signed up etc etc
The new owner of field B says there is a right of way accross and has mangled farmer A's gate pillars and gate and ploughed up his field to get accross to his own, Farmer B has already fallen out with the owner of the house which is beside the proper right of way and wont come into his field via the proper entrance.

what would the legal standing be on this has anyone any idea, could Farmer A just wire up the access between the 2 fields?? Would i be correct in saying years ago a donkey and cart - gentlemans agreement prevailed, would this have a standing in court as it seems thats the way its going?
Any thoughts appreciated

The Bull McCabe comes into mind:o

If the access was through farmers A land orginally disregard all this
However it takes a long time to get a right of way I think it is twenty years continious use. You thenhave to apply for right of way but it is the person who established the right of way that has to apply for it

It sounds from this that the old right of way had no access to road. Also to retain right of way it has to be used at least once in every year. I rebuild my pillars put up a gate and lock it and see what happens maybe new owner of field B bought a pig in a poke

At worst case senario Farmer A could wire off right of way to how wide gate is insist on gate being closed and locked every time it is used on the way in and on the way out no matter how often it is used in the one day and field B owner cannot carry in anything that would damage farmer A gate opening or that is wider than it.

David brown

Tipp Man wrote: »

you need good legal advice

+1