Mildew/Mould

clionaricho

Hi

I have recently done up an older house in which we replaced the electrics, heating and the insulation. I have noticed black spots around the windows, Every morning the windows have quite alot of condensation. There are no vents in the rooms.

Anyone any advice to stop this mould without having to put in vents ?

THanks in advance
Clio

MicktheMan

clionaricho wrote: »

Hi

I have recently done up an older house in which we replaced the electrics, heating and the insulation. I have noticed black spots around the windows, Every morning the windows have quite alot of condensation. There are no vents in the rooms.

Anyone any advice to stop this mould without having to put in vents ?

THanks in advance
Clio

Yeah, don't cook, shower or breath:D.

Your problem is more than likely due to moisture buildup in the air within the thermal envelope of the house. The role of ventilation is replace this wet air with dry air during the heating season. Some of your options are:
1. wall vents + extraction fans
2. positive input ventilation
3. demand controlled ventilation
4. mechanical ventilation with heat recovery

One other method (but imo is not a solution) is to use a dehumidifier.

005

hi we also recently renovated an old council house 1910 era, and also notice mould, we have air vents in every room and our lovely window sills are black close to the wall, so in a war house with ventilation what other measure can i introduce?

BryanF

start by purchasing one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Indoor-Outdoor-Digital-Thermometer-Sensors/dp/B003VNGWHS/ref=pd_cp_ce_3
this will tell you if its a humidity problem you have - over 80%rh and you've in trouble it should be reading around 50-60%

then if its not a humidity problem its probably a damp problem which you may need to call in the builders to solve

the house will probably be drying our for a while following reno

005

thanks, i'll do that and hopefully its arounf 50-60%, fingers crossed:D

cormie

Having issues here also, a bit of mold build up close to doors and windows (doors are glass). There's only one small vent in the whole place and I've suggested to the landlord to install a small window, which I would keep open all the time (too small for somebody to crawl through but would mean much better air circulation).

I also use a dehydrator sometimes which doesn't help the situation but I don't want to be restricted in what I can do.

Also recently had a new shower tray installed, it's white compared to the creamier/more yellowy one that was there before and I've noticed a sligh pink colour around it. On Googling I see this may also be mildew :mad: Maybe it's always been there but I just didn't notice it because the colour of the old tray.

If a new window was to be installed, would that be enough, or would the mould areas still need to be treated? Also, with regards to say storage heaters, would using such heaters make the problem better or worse? What about an open fire?

BryanF

cormie wrote: »

If a new window was to be installed, would that be enough, or would the mould areas still need to be treated? Also, with regards to say storage heaters, would using such heaters make the problem better or worse? What about an open fire?

mould must be removed, window may help with ventilation, heating is not the problem, but any internal moisture generation is - thats means you breathing, your cooking, clothes drying etc - so,first deal with the inadequate ventilation then consider the cold surfaces (probably due to lack of insulation/ poor windows/thermal bridges)
imo if your not getting satisfaction from your landlord move out, mould can cause serious respiratory/health issues

you should have an adequate mechanical vent in the bathroom and kitchen - that means if you hold up a sheet of paper it should stick to the vent when on - the newer ones are now connected to an RH sensor which is much better than being on a timer or light switch

cormie

Thanks for that. When you say a window may help with ventilation, what are the chances of it not helping? If it's a small (too small for someone to climb through) window and I leave it open constantly (I love fresh air so would always have it ajar), in a small enough open plan studio, would that be enough for proper ventilation do you think? There's no mechanical vent in the bathroom and the extractor fan above the kitchen doesn't really extract to anywhere, there's no pipe leading out, I think it just filters into itself?

My chest has actually felt a bit strange the last 3 weeks or so but I'm hoping it's due to me starting back into exercise and muscle tension rather than anything respiratory :eek:

sultanson

I am in the process of doing up a stone house. I have read up on mould and I would advise anyone living in a house with mould to move out if they can. I want to insulate my new home as best that I can without booring holes in every room for vents that will let cold in. I have read many posts on mould and plastering but
these 2 tell me all I need to know .
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056295473&page=3

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056421290

I suggest anyone with mould problems to read these posts fully.

cormie

Don't have time to read all that now, any chance of a summary? one word I did notice however in both threads was Lime, how would I know if lime is an issue in this building itself? I know my neighbours used to have mould too, I'm not sure if they still do, same building, but that was really only in the bathroom which if I recall, had no ventilation and no windows even! Moving out would be a huge hassle, huge!! But in the interest of health of course I'd do it, but if the landlord can act soon, what should I be requesting?

Cleaning
New window
mechanical vent

? Anything else?

BryanF

cormie wrote: »

Don't have time to read all that now, any chance of a summary? one word I did notice however in both threads was Lime, how would I know if lime is an issue in this building itself? I know my neighbours used to have mould too, I'm not sure if they still do, same building, but that was really only in the bathroom which if I recall, had no ventilation and no windows even! Moving out would be a huge hassle, huge!! But in the interest of health of course I'd do it, but if the landlord can act soon, what should I be requesting?

Cleaning
New window
mechanical vent

? Anything else?

were going round in circles here put in your mechanical vents in WC and kit as required under current building regulations, then worry about your window. forget lime, nothing to do you only revelant in old building more than 50-70years.

cormie

Was just coming back here with regards building regulations as I was just off the phone to the landlady who said that no structural changes can be made to the apartment, without going through the management co. This was a pretty poor excuse to me and she was suggesting just to wash it off and get some dehumidifying salt and leave the back door open for fresh air.

I don't want to settle on such mediocre preventative methods but don't want to move out either.

Also, I'm not sure, but I think the building itself is quite old (50+ years?) but may have been renovated recently.

sultanson

What is she renting, an appartment or a carboard box??. The mould is in the plaster and washing is only a cover up.

It is down to bad plastering and architects that do not understand buildings need to breath. I have read on other threads that the use of PVA was common place during the boom. The pva prevents plaster from breathing particularly plaster that was not done properly. Dry lining and single coat plaster with pva is the same as building a polly tunnel for mushrooms and mushrooms are related to mould. This was explained to me by a middle aged plasterer.

BryanF

sultanson wrote: »

It is down to bad plastering and architects that do not understand buildings need to breath.

what??? cement plaster doesn't breathe!!! why blame architects? the problem is we have no building control and people take short-cuts because of this, an architects specification may have been ignored or not even prepared especially for a retro-fit.. the op states:

There's no mechanical vent in the bathroom and the extractor fan above the kitchen doesn't really extract to anywhere, there's no pipe leading out, I think it just filters into itself?

thats the main problem here! and we have been trying to explain that cormie but he keeps banging on about windows!!! which have of course been shot down by his landlord, beacuse there planning implications + other residents + the cost of installing it. when the first thing to be installed is the vents

I have read on other threads that the use of PVA was common place during the boom. The pva prevents plaster from breathing particularly plaster that was not done properly.

what? why would plaster on standard block work be expected to breathe? we are not discussing lime or old buildings here, cormie incorrectly picked this up when reading other threads about ventilating old buildings.. not in any way relevant here from what has been stated thus far..

Dry lining and single coat plaster with pva is the same as building a polly tunnel for mushrooms and mushrooms are related to mould. This was explained to me by a middle aged plasterer.

can you direct me to where cormie mentions drylining? i fail to see where your coming from and who mentioned PVA?

BryanF

cormie wrote: »

Was just coming back here with regards building regulations as I was just off the phone to the landlady who said that no structural changes can be made to the apartment, without going through the management co. This was a pretty poor excuse to me and she was suggesting just to wash it off and get some dehumidifying salt and leave the back door open for fresh air.

if you have to dumidify then theres a problem and thats your landlords problem and not yours.

write a letter to threshold and tell them what you told us:

There's no mechanical vent in the bathroom and the extractor fan above the kitchen doesn't really extract to anywhere, there's no pipe leading out, I think it just filters into itself?

My chest has actually felt a bit strange the last 3 weeks

mould build up close to doors and windows (doors are glass). There's only one small vent in the whole place

then copy the letter landlord.
best of luck

BryanF

sultanson wrote: »

I am in the process of doing up a stone house. I have read up on mould and I would advise anyone living in a house with mould to move out if they can. I want to insulate my new home as best that I can without booring holes in every room for vents that will let cold in. I have read many posts on mould and plastering but
these 2 tell me all I need to know .
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056295473&page=3

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056421290

I suggest anyone with mould problems to read these posts fully.

A 'breathing wall' is not the same as the requirement for background ventilation - this is a common mis conception when people in trade talk about walls that allow a % RH to be absorbed and released as per internal (and external) conditions. its not a substitute for fresh air!!

- unless your building is of historic interest your architect should be following the guidance set-out in http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1647,en.pdf

if you don't want holes in the walls consider Demand control ventilation / positive input ventilation.

sultanson

I replied to Cormie. We are discussing inside plaster. 90% of retro fits on old buildings were dry lining. Despite the bitching that went on in this thread the pva topic was well debated here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056275768


Vents to me means allowing air in and on a day like today the air coming in would have to have more moisture in it than the air already in the house so in my openion vents are allowing more moisture in that will condense on the windows and on cold bridges. On a real nice sunny day it would make some sense to open a window.

BryanF

sultanson wrote: »

Vents to me means allowing air in and on a day like today the air coming in would have to have more moisture in it than the air already in the house so in my openion vents are allowing more moisture in that will condense on the windows and on cold bridges. On a real nice sunny day it would make some sense to open a window.

we as humans require fresh air - to have fresh we need ventilation in our homes. that means background ventilation at all times. this guy has no mechanical ventilation to dissipate/remove the moisture that is created by breathing,cooking,washing,drying clothes etc. thats the priminary reason for this mould problem then comes all the secondary problems like cold bridges etc. the external RH in this instant has no barring

cormie

Thanks for the replies there isn't much cooking done in the place at all, but the dehydrator is used frequently enough. This basically dries out fruits etc and when it's on, the windows get steamed up. Shower is use once/twice a day for a few minutes at a time and clothes dry out in the place too.

I want fresh air, I don't want air that's been dehumidified.

Rather than installing a vent or a window, how about replacing the door with a windowed/ vented door?

BryanF

i give up

cormie

Not sure why you're saying you give up? I'm taking your advice, just trying to give the landlord a few options to go with that I'd be happy with.

Will try push for the mechanical vents, proper cleaning and then a source for adequate fresh air as you suggested. Just looking at options that won't have the landlord coming up with "management won't allow it" excuses and cheap solutions such as some dehumidifying salt.

whizbang

lovely window sills are black close to the wall

is it just the sealant around the edges thats black?