Coffee Shop Cafe Idea

Woodgate

Hi all,

Just looking for some feedback and info from anyone in the business. I am hoping to open a Coffee Shop/Cafe, my initial idea is for a high quality format with little or no seating, basically top quality takeaway coffee, teas, etc... along with really good food items for takeaway aswell, i.e. homemade cakes, muffins, croissants, danish, etc... The unit I have in mind is owned by a relation and needs work but I think I can negotiate great terms in exchange for doing up the place a bit. The unit was used as a small clothing boutique, so I think I would need planning permission for change of use. I also think I would have room for some seating but are there any other implications other than having to provide a toilet, also any info on access requirements for the disabled. I think I can fit the place out reasonably as there is lots of equipment for sale around the place at the moment. Any advice & info would be greatly appreciated, and will entitle you to a freebie if you ever call in!!!!:D

Thanks,
Woody

Chet Zar

Woodgate wrote: »

Hi all,

Just looking for some feedback and info from anyone in the business. I am hoping to open a Coffee Shop/Cafe, my initial idea is for a high quality format with little or no seating, basically top quality takeaway coffee, teas, etc... along with really good food items for takeaway aswell, i.e. homemade cakes, muffins, croissants, danish, etc... The unit I have in mind is owned by a relation and needs work but I think I can negotiate great terms in exchange for doing up the place a bit. The unit was used as a small clothing boutique, so I think I would need planning permission for change of use. I also think I would have room for some seating but are there any other implications other than having to provide a toilet, also any info on access requirements for the disabled. I think I can fit the place out reasonably as there is lots of equipment for sale around the place at the moment. Any advice & info would be greatly appreciated, and will entitle you to a freebie if you ever call in!!!!:D

Thanks,
Woody

I would say before you even start thinking about things like toilets and wheelchair access - will it be viable?

Is there good footfall in the area? Is it in a busy part of town?

I think there is always a good market for top quality coffee at a good price - personally it's my no.1 consideration when choosing a cafe to give my custom too! You could have an 'express coffee' concept - no nonsense, no food, little seating etc, and just provide outstanding coffee.

Woodgate

Chet Zar wrote: »

Is there good footfall in the area? Is it in a busy part of town?

Yes to both, I think the location is perfect, wouldn't consider too many other places.

enviro

What is the local competition like? Distance from your unit, footfall, what products do they offer their consumers, what is the service like?

Monitor how busy they are to get a feel of the demand for coffee in the area.

Once you answer those questions, you can develop a strategy to put into your business plan.

Have you started the business plan yet?

Woodgate

enviro wrote: »

Have you started the business plan yet?

Yes, working away on it.

Thanks for the comments.

Bandara

Woodgate wrote: »

enviro wrote: »

Have you started the business plan yet?

Yes, working away on it.

Thanks for the comments.

How much a year do you think it's going to make you ?

jetsonx

Chet Zar wrote: »

I would say before you even start thinking about things like toilets and wheelchair access - will it be viable?

Is there good footfall in the area? Is it in a busy part of town?

Yeah, the OP is way ahead of themselves. If the area is not suitable you could have gold-plated toilets and wheelchair ramps and the venture will still be a flop.

Is this a business or residential area?

If located in a busy business area you might get away with a takeaway only option.

If in a residential area - generally speaking - these customers will be looking for seats.

Woodgate

jetsonx wrote: »

Yeah, the OP is way ahead of themselves. If the area is not suitable you could have gold-plated toilets and wheelchair ramps and the venture will still be a flop.

As I said in my initial reply, it is in a great area.

Is this a business or residential area?

No, in a really good part of the city with plenty of pubs, shops and other businesses.

Woodgate

Hammertime wrote: »

How much a year do you think it's going to make you ?

Not got that figure yet, I know there's a figure of 100k mentioned alot in relation to working for yourself, I doubt it will be that.

I am currently unemployed, I want to work, and to be honest I am prepared to work really hard at this, as I've done in any job I've had. I would qualify for the BTWEA aswell. If I make myself any decent income it's better than my current situation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing/considering this for the sake of it, I think the location is great and I'll tweak the concept to get it right, I have a few good ideas to develop it more, I'm not afraid to put in the effort. If it fails after a year, 2, 5 years, I would be happier than spending that time on the dole.

Thanks to all so far for the comments.

bogwalrus

Your main business will come from people who work in offices so is there alot of offices in the area or is your location on a busy street where lots of people would pass on their lunch breaks, on the way to work and on the way home from work?

I set up a cafe/wine bar in a small town with very little offices and workers and my takeaway coffee business is non existent even though i promote it and i have a very high standard of coffee where all the locals know this.

If you dont have many offices and are not on a main road where people would walk past your shop in the morning then i dunno about the express takeaway model.

just my two cents

boggy

Woodgate

Hi Bogwalrus,

You are right with some of your comments, there would be a lot of people passing on the way to work and lunchtime trade etc.., not too many offices that i can think of but there is a private college and a technical college less than 1 minute away aswell. I would be allowing for specific busy times and had been thinking of opening 8am to 2:30ish as trade would drop after that.

Thanks again for the comments, everything helps.

bogwalrus

People in colleges might be looking for a place to sit down at lunch time. Knowing exactly your target market will help with decisions such as seating and food.

I can seat around 15 where most of our business comes from sit down wine and chesse boards in the evening at weekends. During the day we do ok selling coffees and cakes but i feel if i did sandwiches i would do much better during the day regarding sit down customers.

You might be better off getting a couple of seats in there from the start. I think under fifteen means you need just one customer toilet and one staff toilet.

If you get just a manhattan style counter i dont think u need a customer toilet.

Chet Zar

Here's an idea - how about setting up a coffee stall in the exact location where you plan to set up the shop, to gauge demand? I know it's not the same as having an actual premises, but could be a much cheaper way of judging whether it will work out..!

bogwalrus

Thats a very good idea in general. Gourmet coffee stall franchis in and around dublin city that can move to different spots. go for it=)

jetsonx

Woodgate wrote: »

Hi Bogwalrus,

You are right with some of your comments, there would be a lot of people passing on the way to work and lunchtime trade etc.., not too many offices that i can think of but there is a private college and a technical college less than 1 minute away aswell. I would be allowing for specific busy times and had been thinking of opening 8am to 2:30ish as trade would drop after that.

Thanks again for the comments, everything helps.

I am starting to get worried Woodgate. You say "not too many offices"
and bring up the issue of colleges. Do you realize how thrifty the average
student is, (private college or not)?


The idea of Chet Zar is great. Remember the guys who setup Innocent used
mobile stall unit idea to guage and test their market.

Bandara

I would disagree with the perception that you need offices close by at all. Yes obviously a lunch trade is good but not necessary if you are talking about a true gourmet offering, i.e. Your not considering offering a panini, or bagel with smoked salmon sort of options and a soup menu and calling it gourmet !

You REALLY REALLY should make a trip to Glasnevin in Dublin, Visit Andersens Deli, and see how its done correctly. Its located in the middle of a tiny housing cul de sac, no schools whatsoever nearby, no an office or commercial unit for miles, just houses of working class people.

Its imo the best in the country at this kind of thing and is hugely successful. And most importantly once your not planning on opening in the countryside (sorry but country people dont do gourmet - not meant to offend anyone but its true) it is very copyable for you to bring to your location.


Regards
HT

jetsonx

Hammertime wrote: »

I would disagree with the perception that you need offices close by at all. Yes obviously a lunch trade is good but not necessary if you are talking about a true gourmet offering, i.e. Your not considering offering a panini, or bagel with smoked salmon sort of options and a soup menu and calling it gourmet !

You REALLY REALLY should make a trip to Glasnevin in Dublin, Visit Andersens Deli, and see how its done correctly. Its located in the middle of a tiny housing cul de sac, no schools whatsoever nearby, no an office or commercial unit for miles, just houses of working class people.

Its imo the best in the country at this kind of thing and is hugely successful. And most importantly once your not planning on opening in the countryside (sorry but country people dont do gourmet - not meant to offend anyone but its true) it is very copyable for you to bring to your location.


Regards
HT

An excellent example HT. Its location in a quite suburb with very little passing trade and few businesses nearby would be enough to give a business development manager from Starbucks nightmares. But somehow, its seems to be working well for them. Fare play to them. Not sure about how easily emulated this formula is though.

Woodgate

jetsonx wrote: »

I am starting to get worried Woodgate. You say "not too many offices"
and bring up the issue of colleges. Do you realize how thrifty the average
student is, (private college or not)?

By that I meant not too many large offices, [plenty of small businesses & offices in the general area, as for the students, they are queued out the door of all the current outlets in the area in the morning & lunchtime. I'm not saying they will or won't spend but my idea is for quality and something different, it doesn't necessarily have to be priced too high to rule them out as customers.

The idea of Chet Zar is great. Remember the guys who setup Innocent used mobile stall unit idea to guage and test their market.

Yeah, it's not a bad call, I have over the past few months looked at an awful lot of coffee etc.. solutions and looked at a cart or even the mobile versions (converted van). I will look further and see if there is the possibility to trade like that in the area (permits, etc..) presume it would come under Casual Trading Licence. Thanks again for the comments.

jetsonx

Woodgate wrote: »

By that I meant not too many large offices, [plenty of small businesses & offices in the general area, as for the students, they are queued out the door of all the current outlets in the area in the morning & lunchtime. I'm not saying they will or won't spend but my idea is for quality and something different, it doesn't necessarily have to be priced too high to rule them out as customers.


Yeah, it's not a bad call, I have over the past few months looked at an awful lot of coffee etc.. solutions and looked at a cart or even the mobile versions (converted van). I will look further and see if there is the possibility to trade like that in the area (permits, etc..) presume it would come under Casual Trading Licence. Thanks again for the comments.

The thing about being dependent on colleges it that if you factor in the summer and term breaks. That is 3-4 months of lost revenues. When you have that amount of time with reduced revenue flow with fixed costs to cover - your bottom line will begin to hurt. At worst, months during term time will have to subsidise Jun, Jul and Aug.

"Quality and something different" - this is what most entrepreneurs aspire to bring to the market, but a couple of months later, after the elation of opening a new business had dampened reality begins to strike. Something "quality" and "something different" usually means higher costs. Then you might discover all the students want is "Tae" like their mothers make at price X and you find your delicious gourmet coffee is not selling at all. Business is like that. Your assumptions can get smashed very easily.

The real fun in business is finding weaknesses or blindspots of your competitors and exploiting them profitably. It is easier than you think but will require a lot of of research, a lot of quality strategic thinking , a lot of trial-and-error and dogged persistence.

arbitrage

In my experience except for students using subsidised on campus coffee shops people are cutting down dramatically on take away coffees and having a nescafe in the office or having a cup before before leaving the house instead of getting a cup on the way to the office.

The crowd that meet their friends are still going strong and it is becoming more common to meet in starbucks/kylemore instead of going to the pub. I think a coffee shop with few or no seats is fighting a losing battle.

One thing that is missing or under represented in most cities is the late night coffee house with lots of couches, big mugs, reasonable prices and good music.

Turn it into a relaxed social outlet with instruments provided for jam sessions, stand up comedy nights, table quizzes, jukeboxes, ect, ect and open until midnight.

Check out The Gigs Place in Dublin.

Woodgate

arbitrage wrote: »

In my experience except for students using subsidised on campus coffee shops people are cutting down dramatically on take away coffees and having a nescafe in the office or having a cup before before leaving the house instead of getting a cup on the way to the office.

The crowd that meet their friends are still going strong and it is becoming more common to meet in starbucks/kylemore instead of going to the pub. I think a coffee shop with few or no seats is fighting a losing battle.

One thing that is missing or under represented in most cities is the late night coffee house with lots of couches, big mugs, reasonable prices and good music.

Turn it into a relaxed social outlet with instruments provided for jam sessions, stand up comedy nights, table quizzes, jukeboxes, ect, ect and open until midnight.

Check out The Gigs Place in Dublin.

Not enough room to do that I'm afraid.

bogwalrus

arbitrage wrote: »

In my experience except for students using subsidised on campus coffee shops people are cutting down dramatically on take away coffees and having a nescafe in the office or having a cup before before leaving the house instead of getting a cup on the way to the office.

The crowd that meet their friends are still going strong and it is becoming more common to meet in starbucks/kylemore instead of going to the pub. I think a coffee shop with few or no seats is fighting a losing battle.

One thing that is missing or under represented in most cities is the late night coffee house with lots of couches, big mugs, reasonable prices and good music.

Turn it into a relaxed social outlet with instruments provided for jam sessions, stand up comedy nights, table quizzes, jukeboxes, ect, ect and open until midnight.

Check out The Gigs Place in Dublin.

I would agree and also add getting a wine "sit in" license as it is very easy to get and allows you to serve wine until 5am in the morning. This would make your place more of a winebar/bistro and that extra bit of income.