Advice on fertiliser

Username John

Hello all,

Looking to pick yer brains...

I have the sheep and lambs out, and have enough grass in front of them for now. But I fear I will be running short come mid to end March.

The sheep are on good reseeded grass now, but the rest of the fields I have are old grass.

My thinking was to spread some fertiliser - if the weather allows. The fields are dry enough, so travelling them wouldn't be such an issue, it would be more when I'd be sure of some higher temperatures... And no mad rain..

Questions:
- am I wasting money spreading fertiliser on old grass?
- most of the fields are very bare, so I was thinking 18-6-12 or 10-10-20 (I haven't them soil tested, but the past few soil tests I have done in other fields have shown I was low in P& K) I think urea is only recommended for fields with a grass covering - is this right?
- i have one field closed since December, so there is a bit of cover on it. So I could put out UREA here?
- a lot of people seem to be putting out UREA or CAN, which are straight nitrogen. Why spread this vs a compound?
- at what rate should it put out to get some extra growth?
- how long should the field be closed? Especially after urea. 

I appreciate these questions might be very basic , but I have been very under stocked in the past, and so haven't really used fertiliser, so haven't much experience with it.

Thanks for help. 
 

blue5000

Have you any slurry to go out? Sorry its another question.

6480

i would put the sheep on the old pasture now a put bag stuff on the reseeded ground as this will respound better and slurry the old grass when eatin down well
and when u see the old grass greening a bit after the slurry bag it then

Username John

blue5000 wrote: »

Have you any slurry to go out? Sorry its another question.

Hi Blue,

Nope - no slurry. We only have sheep, no cattle. The setup is sheep come in for only about 2 - 3 weeks for lambing, thats it. Its good for wintering costs, but it means most of the land doesnt get much break...

I would have to "buy" slurry - and I imagine it would be better & prob cheaper (by the time I get the slurry & pay to put it out) to put out artificial fertiliser.

6480 wrote: »

i would put the sheep on the old pasture now a put bag stuff on the reseeded ground as this will respound better and slurry the old grass when eatin down well
and when u see the old grass greening a bit after the slurry bag it then

Hello 6480,

No slurry - and the old grass is unfortnately is eaten down well as it is
The reseeded ground is closed since Nov, and is good grass now. The old grass wouldnt hold the sheep for long enough right now I'd say, to allow for fertiliser to be put on the reseeded ground.

Plus - I would like to close up the newly reseeded ground for silage come start April (well, some of it) So would like it to eaten down well by then.

Its really April is my issue - if I got over April, I would have enough grass from then on...

Thanks lads.

blue5000

John I'd chance half bag of urea /acre on the old grass in the next week-10 days. Don't do it all in one go in case of frost or heavy rain after doing it. It's cheaper than CAN /kg N (approx95cent/kg vs 125 cent/kg) and works better when soil is cool and damp.

Username John

blue5000 wrote: »

John I'd chance half bag of urea /acre on the old grass in the next week-10 days. Don't do it all in one go in case of frost or heavy rain after doing it. It's cheaper than CAN /kg N (approx95cent/kg vs 125 cent/kg) and works better when soil is cool and damp.

Thanks Blue.

GERMAN ROCKS

going to go out with a half bag of urea later on today as met says the soil temp down my area is around 7.3 degrees. only going to put it on the newer grass anyway. the older stuff is nealry too strong anyway as it didnt get the final grazing i intended to give it due to the weather last year.

5live

Was at a DEP meeting today. Teagasc woman said it would take 10 days after spreading before the fert was taken up by the grass and grass would use 1 unit/day so a half bag of urea/acre would see you for the next month ie 10+23 days. Only of use if you have them well paddocked though but may be useful in the future.

Incidentally no one in our group has spread yet and not looking likely till next week:(

lakill Farm

Im thinking of putting out a few bags on CAN on friday, as soil temp is 7degrees and there is some rain coming saturday to wash it in. Good plan or not? This is for grazing ground for calves only so want the grass to come slower than with urea but more constant growth.

GERMAN ROCKS

just use urea but dont use as much as it. its a lot cheaper per unit at this time of the year.

lakill Farm

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

just use urea but dont use as much as it. its a lot cheaper per unit at this time of the year.

How much an acre will i spread of urea?

On grazing ground and silage ground? (Feck i sound like a dope asking these questions)

flatout11

lakill Farm wrote: »

How much an acre will i spread of urea?

On grazing ground and silage ground? (Feck i sound like a dope asking these questions)

generally half a bag per/ac
depends on stock numbers etc...... so you could go a bit less

lakill Farm

Cheers all.

I will get some urea this week and spread it friday seeing as the weather is thinking of breaking. Ill run the aerator over it first i think

flatout11 wrote: »

generally half a bag per/ac
depends on stock numbers etc...... so you could go a bit less

Farmer Pudsey

I went out last Saturday week with urea at 1/2 bag to the acre i can see the result on the fields that were bare so the one with grass must be coming as well hope to put out over half of the cattle this weekend with urea you have 47 units in a bag so a half bag is 23 units. As I graze the paddocks I will go back in with urea or can if it is very dry and windy again at about 25 units to the acre.

Muckit

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

As I graze the paddocks I will go back in with urea or can

Do you mean straight away? Or how many weeks after the first grazing of a field would you come with the second application of nitrogen? Hardly only 3-4 weeks between spreads?

Muckit

I hear alot of talk about spreading nitrogen. When do lads spread P + K needed? Last backend or earlier in the new year? Or was slurry applied?

Can someone tell me how to calculate the P+K requirements/acre for a field at index 3 (so just the P+K taken out from grazing) assumng a 3-week rotational grazing system and a grazing season until the end of September?

Username John

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I went out last Saturday week with urea at 1/2 bag to the acre i can see the result on the fields that were bare so the one with grass must be coming as well hope to put out over half of the cattle this weekend with urea you have 47 units in a bag so a half bag is 23 units. As I graze the paddocks I will go back in with urea or can if it is very dry and windy again at about 25 units to the acre.

I went out with 1/2 bag to the acre last Saturday. I would be happier if it wasnt lashing last nigt & this morning, as the fields were soaking... Not much we can do about it now...
Would heavy rain 3 days after being put out have a big affect?

ciaran kinvara2012

just got one pallet of goulding 18-6-12 and 2 pallets of goulding sulfa can (26-6-5) today, how many bags per acre should i shake and any ideas when is a good day to start this week. thanks

Muckit

ciaran kinvara2012 wrote: »

just got one pallet of goulding 18-6-12 and 2 pallets of goulding sulfa can (26-6-5) today, how many bags per acre should i shake and any ideas when is a good day to start this week. thanks

Welcome to boards Ciaran !

http://www.met.ie/forecasts/county.asp It looks like the worst of the rain is over. I checked soil temperature yesterday evening and it was 8*C. I think once it's over 6*C, grass will grow. Saturday would be your best bet if ground conditions are good.

Well that's what I'm hoping myself, as going to try and get the driest parts of the farm done

Highland

Grass will respond to fertilser nitrogen once the pH is correct and P & K levels are appropriate. At low pH the effiency of notrogen utilisation can be as low as 40%. At ccorrect pH (6.3 - 6.5) it is double that. Similar with P & K. Therefore it's important to get the basics right if you want to get a good response from fertilser.

So for soils with low pH and low P & K use a compound fertilser plus lime (granulated is best to get quick response). It is not too late to get soil tested if no P, K or slurry has been appleid yet - so if in doubt take they sample before spreading compound fertilser, and correct the soil fertility later on.

Apply 23 units regardless of sward age. Remember that it will take the grass around four weeks to convert fertiliser into extra grass - so the longer you delay the longer you will be waiting for grass to respond. As important as spreading now is to top up within 4 -6 weeks.

Urea works well on warm soils, and on colder soils with cover provided that soil fertility is ok. its the best value for money - but don't spreadm it within 4 months of spreading ground limestone.

6480

Highland wrote: »

Grass will respond to fertilser nitrogen once the pH is correct and P & K levels are appropriate. At low pH the effiency of notrogen utilisation can be as low as 40%. At ccorrect pH (6.3 - 6.5) it is double that. Similar with P & K. Therefore it's important to get the basics right if you want to get a good response from fertilser.

So for soils with low pH and low P & K use a compound fertilser plus lime (granulated is best to get quick response). It is not too late to get soil tested if no P, K or slurry has been appleid yet - so if in doubt take they sample before spreading compound fertilser, and correct the soil fertility later on.

Apply 23 units regardless of sward age. Remember that it will take the grass around four weeks to convert fertiliser into extra grass - so the longer you delay the longer you will be waiting for grass to respond. As important as spreading now is to top up within 4 -6 weeks.

Urea works well on warm soils, and on colder soils with cover provided that soil fertility is ok. its the best value for money - but don't spreadm it within 4 months of spreading ground limestone.

i have alot of grass on the paddocks at the min . should i go with fertilser now when there is a cover of grass or spread them as the cows eat it off, i have about 6 weeks grass in the rotation and it will be about ten days before i let them out

GERMAN ROCKS

how long should you wait before spreading nitrogen after slurry was applied to paddocks

Highland

6480 wrote: »

i have alot of grass on the paddocks at the min . should i go with fertilser now when there is a cover of grass or spread them as the cows eat it off, i have about 6 weeks grass in the rotation and it will be about ten days before i let them out

I would avoid spreading paddocks that will be grazed in the next two weeks or so until they have been grazed, but for later ones i would spread it now and have the grass growing before/during and after grazing.

Highland

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

how long should you wait before spreading nitrogen after slurry was applied to paddocks

Technically you can spread them sequentially - slurry first and chemical fertiliser afterwards to avoid slurry coating fertilser granuales.

But if your spreading 2.5k gallons of slurry (in spring) your putting out around 20 units of N so there will be no need for additional chemical fertilser

Farmer Pudsey

Username John wrote: »

I went out with 1/2 bag to the acre last Saturday. I would be happier if it wasnt lashing last nigt & this morning, as the fields were soaking... Not much we can do about it now...
Would heavy rain 3 days after being put out have a big affect?

You should be ok if temp above 6 degrees and a bit of dew in the morning the nitrogen will be below ground level and a lot of it will be taken up by the roots of the grass.

However you should always check the forecast I use two sites one is http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ scroll down and you will see More UK weather, when you go into this you will see a map of the uk and Ireland and you can move through it for two days gives you a good indication of what the weather wiil be like in you area.

The other one is http://www.weather-forecast.com/countries you can enter a city airport or port and it gives you a nine day forecast try to pick one near you I am looky there is a location I can get on it 5 miles from me

I have given up watching the weather on rte I find these much more helpful

Farmer Pudsey

Highland wrote: »

Urea works well on warm soils, and on colder soils with cover provided that soil fertility is ok. its the best value for money - but don't spreadm it within 4 months of spreading ground limestone.

How about after Granular limestone how long and why

Farmer Pudsey

Muckit wrote: »

Do you mean straight away? Or how many weeks after the first grazing of a field would you come with the second application of nitrogen? Hardly only 3-4 weeks between spreads?

Sorry for not replying earlier I will try to get out in mid march again Weather depending on grazed paddocks and ones that will not be grazed for 2-3 weeks with 25 units nitrogen CAN if it is dry and windy and UREA if it a bit wet (1-2mm of rain a day) I will also go out with a bag of granular limestone to tne acre on the grazeing ground.
In April I will use a bag of 10-10-20 on any grazeing ground that did not get slurry in the last 12 months.

Username John

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You should be ok if temp above 6 degrees and a bit of dew in the morning the nitrogen will be below ground level and a lot of it will be taken up by the roots of the grass.

However you should always check the forecast I use two sites one is http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ scroll down and you will see More UK weather, when you go into this you will see a map of the uk and Ireland and you can move through it for two days gives you a good indication of what the weather wiil be like in you area.

The other one is http://www.weather-forecast.com/countries you can enter a city airport or port and it gives you a nine day forecast try to pick one near you I am looky there is a location I can get on it 5 miles from me

I have given up watching the weather on rte I find these much more helpful

Hi Pudsey,
Thanks for links.
I have used accuweather - as I have an app for it on me phone. Havent used the bbc too much, and yeah, I find met.ie to be not very helpful.

To be honest, Saturday is my only day for doing much, thats when the fertiliser goes out too... not great being tied to kinda one day...
I plan to put some more out tomorrow... bbc weather looks good...

HillFarmer

Try www.magicseaweed.com

Probably the best one for checking weather over a week.

CLick on the pressure chart on the far left.

Very good website

Highland

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

How about after Granular limestone how long and why

No problems with granular limestone, can spread the same day

mikeoh

when should C.A.N be used just as it is 100euro/ton cheaper or does it work more expensive in the long run

Farmer Pudsey

mikeoh wrote: »

when should C.A.N be used just as it is 100euro/ton cheaper or does it work more expensive in the long run

CAN per unit of Nitrogen is dearer that UREA. CAN is 27% nitrogen and UREA is 47% Nitrogen I think I stand to be corrected havn't a bag handy at moment

However the nitrogen in UREA will vaporise in hot or dry very windy conditions so it is adviceable to spread in condition where there is moisture present so it is very suitable when the temp is low and your ground is wet early spring or autaum. Urea can also be used where it will be tilled into the ground straight away CAN is much more stable and there is little fear in spreading it in the middle of summer

Nitrogen should not be spread when a lot rain is forecast in your area.

mikeoh

Good man thanks.....at what rate should CAN and UREA be spread

Farmer Pudsey

mikeoh wrote: »

at what rate should CAN and UREA be spread

At the moment a half bag of urea to the acre is enough. You could go a little more if you have reseeded ground and need grass however as fertiliser is getting dearer all the time I am of the view little and often I seldom go with more than 25 units of N to the acre except on silage ground.

mikeoh

Cheers for that .The way things are going theres no room for expensive mistakes