Maintenance-am i being unreasonable?

bubsicle

Hi all.

Ok, will try and keep this short.

My son is now 5. His father is very good to him and we do get on (ish!).
He was in college until last year in the UK and I never asked him for a penny. I was also in college and worked part time to help fund my college fees etc and also received OPFP.

I now am still in college but have no income other than that of OPFP, no grant or anything.

My son spends 2 nights a week with his father, well in the fathers home house with granny and grandad too.
the father is now working and we have recently spoken about maintenance.

I am asking for 25e a week which is enough to cover my rent and will not affect my OPFP.
He is not sure if he should have to pay me anything as he(his parents) see/provide for his son for 2 nites.

Basically i am wondering am I being unreasonable asking him for 25e a week?
his parents are amazing to me with support if i need them and since he has been back from the UK he is very willing and hands on but does this mean he doesnt have to pay me?

CIARAN_BOYLE

I think if you brought him to court you would get the maintenance that you want

Orion

You're not being unreasonable. Depending on his income, he'd be lucky to get away with €25/week if you get a maintenance order.

Him babysitting for 2 nights is irrelevant. Who buys his clothes, shoes, schoolbooks, friends birthday presents, all the incidentals? Looking after a kid for 2 nights a week is easy - almost as easy as not factoring in all the costs that he won't think about. He needs a wakeup call to be honest.

Offy

bubsicle wrote: »

Hi all.

Ok, will try and keep this short.

My son is now 5. His father is very good to him and we do get on (ish!).
He was in college until last year in the UK and I never asked him for a penny. I was also in college and worked part time to help fund my college fees etc and also received OPFP.

I now am still in college but have no income other than that of OPFP, no grant or anything.

My son spends 2 nights a week with his father, well in the fathers home house with granny and grandad too.
the father is now working and we have recently spoken about maintenance.

I am asking for 25e a week which is enough to cover my rent and will not affect my OPFP.
He is not sure if he should have to pay me anything as he(his parents) see/provide for his son for 2 nites.

Basically i am wondering am I being unreasonable asking him for 25e a week?
his parents are amazing to me with support if i need them and since he has been back from the UK he is very willing and hands on but does this mean he doesnt have to pay me?

There is an interesting document here on the cost of raising a child in Ireland. Its a very old document (18 years) but the methods used can be adjusted with some basic maths for todays cost of living to give a realistic figure. The table on page 12 might be useful to you. Fill in what you spend and also take extra rent, etc. into account then divide the sum by 2 (50% per parent). From that you can decide yourself if what your asking is unreasonable. Personally I dont think €25 per week is enough but thats just my opinion.

Fittle

Orion wrote: »

Him babysitting for 2 nights is irrelevant.

And the fact that he lives at home with his folks most probably means the grandparents are as involved in the 'babysitting' as the dad is!

25e per week is NOT unreasonable OP, and depending on his income, you would most probably be granted more if you decided to bring him to court.

Offy

Does your child stay over two nights with his father/grandparents? If so then your ex can claim single parents re tax credits. I suspect if the child sleeps over two nights a week then it might be slightly relevant as your costs drop by 2/7's. If that be the case then the childs father is making a two day a week contribution already. You are still making a five day a week contribution leaving you with three days expenses to cater for all on your own.
So the way I would look at that situation is this: does €25 a week maintenance (based on three days a week) seem unreasonable? If €25 equals three days maintenance then one days maintenance equals €8.33 and seven days maintenance equals €58.33. Can you raise your child for that amount? I wouldnt think so but I personally have done it on a lot less.

The Corinthian

bubsicle wrote: »

He is not sure if he should have to pay me anything as he(his parents) see/provide for his son for 2 nites.

There are seven days in the week and so if he had his son 3 and a half nights a week he might have an argument there - and I stress only might.

Does he provide any non-monitory or indirect monitory assistance? Buying clothes, paying directly for medical bills, play-school? This may have a baring on matters - again may.

Making the step from an informal to legal relationship - bringing him to court - will sour relations. However, you will be justified to do so, IMHO, if he continues to stonewall you, although I would still give him every opportunity to avoid this (within reason) so that he can't turn around and claim you're the bad guy later.

25 Euro per week is certainly not unreasonable, especially if he has a job and few if any overheads (he's still living at home, after all). If he continues to stonewall you, then I would rattle the legal sabre by suggesting that if you cannot agree then perhaps a court will have to do so on your behalf. If this does not spur him to action, send him a letter, via registered post, requesting maintenance (but don't specify a figure). Finally, if all else fails bring him to court and I expect you'll easily get 25 Euro per week if not more (depending upon his income/expenditure).

Rinker

Its a difficult situation. Would you feel it reasonable if the roles were reversed and the dad got the five nights? I think that the parent with custody has the best deal even if they have the lions share of the work. That said €25 doesn't go very far and if he is working he should have offered. Its not fair on you having to ask.

bubsicle

Does he provide any non-monitory or indirect monitory assistance? Buying clothes, paying directly for medical bills, play-school? This may have a baring on matters - again may.

He does pay 12 for afterschool. his mum would buy my son some clothes but not out of necessity, just in that she sees something my son wud like. other indirect costs would basically be the support his parents have given me when the father was in the Uk and when he goes away to work for 3 or 4 days a week if I needed them. when he is away he lives with his girlfriend and pays rent with her.
he also has a car loan, and insurance to pay monthly. Costs I also have.

Thank you all for your input.

Klingon Hamlet

An alternative option: offter to go 50/50 parenting. If he can get a 4 day week, you can split child-rearing half and half. Then you are equal and no money need change hands.

Fair play to you by the way for going to college and raising a child, that takes a lot of effort.

IMHO though if the alternative is not viable, he's being a bit stingy with not offering a penny. I give €100 a week for my child.

PLEASE avoid court at all costs. It is not the way to go. Try mediation instead, it is available nationwide with long waiting lists...or IMMEDIATELY through Dolphin House District Court.

pickarooney

Orion wrote: »

You're not being unreasonable. Depending on his income, he'd be lucky to get away with €25/week if you get a maintenance order.

Him babysitting for 2 nights is irrelevant. Who buys his clothes, shoes, schoolbooks, friends birthday presents, all the incidentals? Looking after a kid for 2 nights a week is easy - almost as easy as not factoring in all the costs that he won't think about. He needs a wakeup call to be honest.

Babysitting? His own child?

Orion

I chose the word deliberately. Reading the op that seems to the way he's treating things.

The Corinthian

Orion wrote: »

I chose the word deliberately. Reading the op that seems to the way he's treating things.

If he is lacking in any area it is only in financial side of things - it's a presumption to say that he is also lacking in the care of his child.

To me, the use of the term 'babysitting' in this way is simply underlining the prejudice that non-custodial parents are simply some form of lesser 'support' for the 'real' parent.

Orion

Ok - I don't want to get hung up on a throwaway comment. I withdraw the suggestion rather than distract from the OP.

bubsicle

Orion wrote: »

I chose the word deliberately. Reading the op that seems to the way he's treating things.

\i agree with you. it is like he babysits. he gets to go to the pub or go to football games as he pleases whether he has his son or not.

Thank you all for your advice.

The Corinthian

He brings his son to the pub or go to football games?

Big Bag of Chips

The Corinthian wrote: »

He brings his son to the pub or go to football games?

I'm guessing she means that his parents mind the baby...

bubsicle

yes, his parents take my son if the dad wants to do anything while his son is staying with him. I dont think he understands the sacrifices i have to make on a daily basis.

Offy

bubsicle wrote: »

yes, his parents take my son if the dad wants to do anything while his son is staying with him. I dont think he understands the sacrifices i have to make on a daily basis.

Are you suggesting he is an alcoholic or that he shouldnt have a social life because he's a parent? Im also a single parent and I havent been to a pub since last summer but that doesnt mean I gave up my life to be a parent, it simply means I dont have a babysitter. Perhaps you should get a babysitter from time to time? I know from personal experience that not having adult company to interact with can be very stressful. Going out with your friends from time to time is great stress relief.
Its all to common for the custodial parent to build up resentments for the non custodial parent but it achieves nothing positive and it can rub of on the child which of course does the child no good at all.
I think you should focus on the point, maintenance for you child. If the father isnt pulling his weight then thats an issue that should be addressed but building up resentments will make that harder to address. If the father of your child is unfit then thats a seperate issue and should be addressed separately imo.

Orion

Offy wrote: »

Are you suggesting he is an alcoholic or that he shouldnt have a social life because he's a parent?

That's a bit of a leap dude. She just said that he goes out for matches- not that he's an alcoholic. Let's not get carried away.

Offy

Orion wrote: »

That's a bit of a leap dude. She just said that he goes out for matches- not that he's an alcoholic. Let's not get carried away.

It was the comment following that I was remarking about. "I dont think he understands the sacrifices i have to make on a daily basis." To me it implies that getting a babysitter is irresponsible. Personally I don’t believe any father can truly understand what a mother goes through to be a mother and equally no mother can truly understand what it is to be a father. Whether or not the father goes out is unimportant unless it inhibits his ability to be a father/parent. Added to that it has little to do with any father paying maintenance unless he spends all his money on matches or in the pub rather than on the child.
As a single father for 12 years I know a lot about sacrifices. The comment “he gets to go to the pub or go to football games as he pleases whether he has his son or not” just after the comment “it is like he babysits” sounds like the mother resents the father because the father gets to go to the pub or go to football games as he pleases whether he has his son or not. That does not mean he does not make sacrifices for his child. If it is bitterness it really needs to be put aside as it does no good for either parent or more importantly for the child.
Whats important is that BOTH parents contribute to the upbringing of the child. When I was awarded sole custody my ex wasn’t working so I didn’t pursue maintenance. I tried to get her to be involved with OUR children in other ways. If the father doesn’t pay maintenance for whatever reason that doesn’t mean he can play a positive role in the childs life. It takes more than just money to raise a child and its best done without resentments or bitterness.
I intend no offence to you OP, I just think perhaps you should try and look for some good qualities in your ex for both you and your childs sake.

campo

25e a week is nothing if he is working , no way are you being unreasonble asking for this,
Plus if he can afford to go to the pub on the weekend to watch a match then he can afford to support his child.

I also have my kids 2 days a week I personally pay 80e a week ( 40e each ) also pay for their VHI and pay half of cost of uniforms, sports equipment etc and I have no problem doing this as I know I am supportig my child men like him give the rest of us a bad name

Tell him you spoke to a solicitor and they reckon you would get more then 25e a week in court and its his last chance to pay up our you will bring him to court and if he still does not pay follow up with the threat

The Corinthian

bubsicle wrote: »

yes, his parents take my son if the dad wants to do anything while his son is staying with him. I dont think he understands the sacrifices i have to make on a daily basis.

Then his parents would be 'babysitting', not him - do I don't really understand why you accused him of this.

If he does not go out, is he still 'babysitting' on the days he has his son?

DonalK1981

I read the title and expected to be saying that if you have to ask then you probably are being unreasonable, but wanted someone to bolster your opinion!

On reading your post I am happy to say I was mistaken, and in a big way.

€25 a week or €100 a month is very reasonable, and I would be shocked at any father who didn't have the inititive and cop on to contribute without being asked to if they had it to give.

I hope ye both come to some agreement and I don't think he has any right to complain about paying it.

gcgirl

The Corinthian wrote: »

bubsicle wrote: »

yes, his parents take my son if the dad wants to do anything while his son is staying with him. I dont think he understands the sacrifices i have to make on a daily basis.

Then his parents would be 'babysitting', not him - do I don't really understand why you accused him of this.

If he does not go out, is he still 'babysitting' on the days he has his son?

I'm kind of think she would prefer if the dad spent time with the child, the guy has 5 other days to do as he pleases and spending some quality time with his child should be paramount, I kind of get the feeling the grand parents do most of the donkey work

The Corinthian

gcgirl wrote: »

I'm kind of think she would prefer if the dad spent time with the child, the guy has 5 other days to do as he pleases and spending some quality time with his child should be paramount, I kind of get the feeling the grand parents do most of the donkey work

I understand that completely, it's just that if he isn't spending time with his child then he's not even 'babysitting', so I don't understand why she used this term in the first place. Unless, that is, she sees him as simply 'babysitting' even when he is spending time with his child.

Don't get me wrong; I get the impression (from what she has told us) that this guy is really not making much of an effort and that he is unwilling to even contribute an amount as modest as €25 per week is bordering on scandalous. He's entitled to live his own life, certainly, but he appears to be tearing the arse out of it and strikes me as a bit of a Peter Pan, TBH.

However, as has been pointed out, there does appear to be some serious resentment there - regardless of whether she is justified in having such resentment or not - and unless she can at least identify this, it could easily spill over into prejudice, become engrained and eventually dictate future relations between them to the detriment of their child.