Ireland v Czech Republic

Raskolnikov

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Be honest,have you ever seen him play?

Well this summer when Wigan are relegated the chances are you will see him next season playing for a top club.

I have made a point of watching McCarthy play and while I think he does have a future in the Premier League, it will definitely won't be with a top 8 team. When I have seem him play on the wing, he looked uncomfortable. When I have seen him play as a defensive midfielder, he worked hard and put himself about, but didn't do anything spectacular. When he has played in a more advanced central midfield role, I haven't seen any evidence of a hugely creative presence going forward.

He doesn't look any better than any of the other players in his team to me.

bassey

CiaranC wrote: »

A standing ovation for a player who has never played before and 95% of the crowd had never heard of 8 months ago, lol. I think they interupted their mexican wave for it too

Or just a standing ovation for a promising young player getting his first senior international cap :rolleyes:

CiaranC

bassey wrote: »

Or just a standing ovation for a promising young player getting his first senior international cap :rolleyes:

All young players getting their first senior international caps are 'promising' surely?

ColeTrain

tayto lover wrote: »

The last time I saw him play for Ireland he was crap and gave the ball away a lot.
If McCarthy was that good he would be playing with a top Premiership team now.

You could say the same about any midfielder in the squad.

bassey

CiaranC wrote: »

All young players getting their first senior international caps are 'promising' surely?

Yep, not much gets by you, and they all deserve a standing ovation for representing their country if you ask me.

Pro. F

Rekop dog wrote: »

One of the likeable traits of Trap imo is that pays absolutely zero attention (and never has) to the media and won't be influenced by who they think should play.

If he pays zero attention to what the media and public say then why did he call up McClean and give him game time after he initially left him out of the squad?

Pro. F

Johnny_the_fox wrote: »

Kelly / O'Shea?
Fahey / Gibson?

Trap has not given significant game time to Fahey.

TaosHum

CiaranC wrote: »

All young players getting their first senior international caps are 'promising' surely?

But not all of them have been so successful in such a short space of time playing at the highest level.

People are excited to see the kid put on an Irish shirt and considering his form, why shouldn't they be?

JayMul

Pro. F wrote: »

If he pays zero attention to what the media and public say then why did he call up McClean and give him game time after he initially left him out of the squad?

Because he's the type of player Trap absolutely loves. Hard Working, strong and apparently he can play a bit too. Another thing Trap loves is a player he can gently mould, he has no time for prima donnas. McClean seems very down to earth, perfect match so.

devotional1993

Pro. F wrote: »

If he pays zero attention to what the media and public say then why did he call up McClean and give him game time after he initially left him out of the squad?

Bums on seats at the aviva-Maybe he listened to John Delaney

JayMul

Pro. F wrote: »

Trap has not given significant game time to Fahey.

I agree, strange one that. Fahey is a bit better on the ball than the other two and a workhorse.

CiaranC

bassey wrote: »

Yep, not much gets by you, and they all deserve a standing ovation for representing their country if you ask me.

But they dont all get one, you have to score three goals for Sunderland first it would seem

Rekop dog

Pro. F wrote: »

If he pays zero attention to what the media and public say then why did he call up McClean and give him game time after he initially left him out of the squad?

He can change his mind on issues without it being due to media pressure. Believe me if he didn't want a player in his squad for whatever reason he wouldn't pick him. As I said he's made far more high profile omissions during his career.

Pro. F

JayMul wrote: »

Because he's the type of player Trap absolutely loves. Hard Working, strong and apparently he can play a bit too. Another thing Trap loves is a player he can gently mould, he has no time for prima donnas. McClean seems very down to earth, perfect match so.

None of that changed between when Trap initially announced his squad and when he called up McClean a while later.

He wasn't brought in as an injury replacement and his eligibility clearance had gone through the day before the squad was announced as had been expected.

devotional1993 wrote: »

Bums on seats at the aviva-Maybe he listened to John Delaney

That would be a terrible reason for picking him!

JayMul

CiaranC wrote: »

But they dont all get one, you have to score three goals for Sunderland first it would seem

Ah c'mon, surely the standing ovation is a bit obvious? It's a triumph of the good Friday Agreement that we can poach raw talent from under the nose of our staunch Northern neighbours.

Mushy

CiaranC wrote: »

A standing ovation for a player who has never played before and 95% of the crowd had never heard of 8 months ago, lol. I think they interupted their mexican wave for it too

While I've known him a wee bit longer than 8 months, I was halfly clapping for McGeady finally coming off.

JayMul

Pro. F wrote: »

None of that changed between when Trap initially announced his squad and when he called up McClean a while later.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/is-this-the-tackle-that-changed-traps-mind-about-james-mcclean-3025347.html

Point in case :cool:

CiaranC

JayMul wrote: »

Ah c'mon, surely the standing ovation is a bit obvious? It's a triumph of the good Friday Agreement that we can poach raw talent from under the nose of our staunch Northern neighbours.

That would make more sense than a bunch of OleOlers creaming themselves over a player theyve seen a handful of times on the telly

Pro. F

Rekop dog wrote: »

He can change his mind on issues without it being due to media pressure. Believe me if he didn't want a player in his squad for whatever reason he wouldn't pick him. As I said he's made far more high profile omissions during his career.

Trap had had months to think about his squad and he had previously said that he wouldn't be looking at new players for the tournament. Then shortly after he decides on his squad and announces it he changes his mind and brings in a different player. I don't see a plausible explanation for that other than Trap being influenced by the media.

JayMul wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/is-this-the-tackle-that-changed-traps-mind-about-james-mcclean-3025347.html

Point in case :cool:

Nothing changed with McClean between when Trap announced his squad and when he called up McClean. He had the same obvious qualities before the squad was announced.

CiaranC wrote: »

That would make more sense than a bunch of OleOlers creaming themselves over a player theyve seen a handful of times on the telly

Get over yourself. You watch the LOI - here's a Purple Heart for you.

From what I've heard McClean was doing great stuff in the LOI and deserved a call up on that alone, but he has also done plenty with Sunderland to get fans who watch the PL excited about him playing for Ireland. A bit of excitement about a new player coming on never hurt anyone, but you are so desperate to look cool you want to begrudge it. Pathetic.

JayMul

Pro. F wrote: »

From what I've heard McClean was doing great stuff in the LOI and deserved a call up on that alone.

Bollox, he would want to be scoring 3 goals a game to get a callup from LOI. We aren't Northern Ireland.

JayMul

Pro. F wrote: »

From what I've heard McClean was doing great stuff in the LOI and deserved a call up on that alone, but he has also done plenty with Sunderland to get fans who watch the PL excited about him playing for Ireland. A bit of excitement about a new player coming on never hurt anyone, but you are so desperate to look cool you want to begrudge it. Pathetic.

For the record I was absolutely over the moon he chose to play for us and got a run out, not only is it a triumph of the good friday agreement it's a triumph of Traps tenure. McClean probably wouldn't have thought twice if he was around 5 years ago.
It also must have been a hard to decision for him, so nice to make the kid feel welcome.

Pro. F

JayMul wrote: »

Bollox, he would want to be scoring 3 goals a game to get a callup from LOI. We aren't Northern Ireland.

Bollocks, the LOI isn't that bad.

EdenHazard

McLean wasn't that good in Ireland, no better than loads of others.

briany

I cringed when I saw Green was getting a run out. No way did I think he would be getting onto the pitch in that game but, actually, he wasn't as bad as I feared he would be. He didn't look as clumsy as he has in previous Ireland games and got up to join a couple of attacks but with the likes of McCarthy not getting a run out does this mean that Green could be the plan B CM? That's a horrifying thought and would most likely make the Euro games a depressing affair because Green would make no impact whatsoever if the team goes one or two down.

Father Damo

CiaranC wrote: »

A standing ovation for a player who has never played before and 95% of the crowd had never heard of 8 months ago, lol. I think they interupted their mexican wave for it too

I wouldnt give a young Lionel Messi a call up to the national side if he had only played LOI football. No manager in their right mind would. Jesus christ get over this caveman attitude- any manager who would willingly give a run to a player who has not proven himself amongst a decent calibre of player is unsuitable to be at the helm of the national team.

CiaranC

The chap is a good player, unlike 95% of that stadium tonight Ive seen him play well in the flesh several times. I wish him well. My issue is not with McClean, its with the gob****es supporting Ireland, standing ovations based on sky/newspaper hype - embarassing.

RoboClam

CiaranC wrote: »

The chap is a good player, unlike 95% of that stadium tonight Ive seen him play well in the flesh several times. I wish him well. My issue is not with McClean, its with the gob****es supporting Ireland, standing ovations based on sky/newspaper hype - embarassing.

I think it was more to do with Trap changing his stance on bringing promising new players into the squad that people were applauding. Well, that's what I was applauding anyway.

AgileMyth

Didn't get to see the game last night. Assumed the lad at work was joking when he said Green was on. How is he getting games? What does he offer?

Fr Tod Umptious

JayMul wrote: »

For the record I was absolutely over the moon he chose to play for us and got a run out, not only is it a triumph of the good friday agreement it's a triumph of Traps tenure. McClean probably wouldn't have thought twice if he was around 5 years ago.
It also must have been a hard to decision for him, so nice to make the kid feel welcome.

I would hazard a guess that the GFA has triumphed in far more ways for the people of NI than just giving some guy the ability to play football for the team on the island that are doing well at the moment

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that the GFA has triumped in far more ways for the people of NI than just giving some guy the ability to play football for the team on the island that are doing well at the moment

"a triumph" is not equal to "the triumph"

Fishooks12

CiaranC wrote: »

The chap is a good player, unlike 95% of that stadium tonight Ive seen him play well in the flesh several times. I wish him well. My issue is not with McClean, its with the gob****es supporting Ireland, standing ovations based on sky/newspaper hype - embarassing.

You're very easily embarrassed if that's the case

Did you stay silent when we scored too in an effort to buck the trend? :rolleyes:

PhlegmyMoses

Fishooks12 wrote: »

You're very easily embarrassed if that's the case

Did you stay silent when we scored too in an effort to buck the trend? :rolleyes:

It was a bit weird that people were cheering when he came on. Usually only see that when a team signs a big player and he's been out injured before making his debut etc.

markie29

I think people were cheerng when McLean came on because for 75minutes the game was awful there was nothing else to cheer about.

Orando Broom

Dempsey wrote: »

Nobody told Trap because he was experimenting tactically with Robbie Keane & Shane Long tonight.

Not utilising your squad in friendlies is not preparing properly for the Euros.

I have to say Robbie Keane has not a breeze how to play as trequartista. If that is traps grand plan agaionst Spain we can forget about it. Keane needs to be in or around the box. He does not have the accleration or the range of passing to dictate the play from a withdrawn central position.

Rational Perspective:
If that was the dress rehearsal for Spain I'd be worried. Defensively in the first half we looked compact and coherent in the two banks, duff was awful and McGeady is being killed playing on his weak side. Keith Andrews is a fierce important player for ireland and I think he is improving, liable to the odd brain fart but he puts himself about and can pick a pass. I don't see the point of Glenn whelan. I found it hard to note any significent contribution form him last night. Paul Green. F**K it. Will Trap bring five Strikers? Are Trap's top three tips Keane Cox and Walters? Is it a fight between Long and Doyle for fourth?

Irrational Perspective:

It doesn't matter what happens in warm-up games we are getting something of Spain. I don't care who they have or haven't. They can be nullified. Switzerland showed that in Africa. I think we are a better unit than any Swiss team could ever hope to be. We'll play like men possessed that day!

JayMul

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that the GFA has triumphed in far more ways for the people of NI than just giving some guy the ability to play football for the team on the island that are doing well at the moment

So would I if that was what we are talking about here, but it isn't so vOv

JayMul

Pro. F wrote: »

Bollocks, the LOI isn't that bad.

It isn't anywhere near the level Premiership or the Championship & until a player can prove he can survive at the top level he is total risk coming from LOI to play International football. To add to that you could destroy a young players career and confidence by selecting him prematurely, this is why it should rarely happen.

stooge

Orando Broom wrote: »

Keith Andrews is a fierce important player for ireland and I think he is improving, liable to the odd brain fart but he puts himself about and can pick a pass. I don't see the point of Glenn whelan. I found it hard to note any significent contribution form him last night. Paul Green. F**K it.

I'm not sure if you were at the match last night or not but (IMO) you could not be more wrong in your assessment. The workrate of Glenn Whelan last night was excellent, he closed down, made tackles and kept the ball moving. Keith Andrews (despite the RTE reports) was poor. He didnt close down the Czech when they had the ball for 85 minutes, he hardly made a tackle and (apart from one ball to Keane in the first half) didnt go forward with the ball at all. I would say the majority of people sitting around me were saying the same thing.

The two weak links were obvious to see, Ward and Andrews. The rest of the team were solid enough if not outstanding. Walters was very effective when he came on. Cox added energy up front. As for Green I agree with you. I dont see what he brings to the team that McCarthy can't bring (and more).

As for the strikers I would guess that Traps starting pair would be Keane and Doyle, with Long, Walters and Cox following in that order.

noodler

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2012/0301/trapattoni.html

Thursday, 1 March 2012 12:25

RTÉ soccer pundit Eamon Dunphy has labelled the Republic of Ireland's performance in the 1-1 friendly draw with the Czech Republic as "embarrassing", and blasted Giovanni Trapattoni as "amateurish and arrogant".
The outspoken former international, speaking to Darragh Maloney on Morning Ireland on RTÉ Radio 1, also stated that if the manager does not change his approach Ireland will be "humiliated" at this summer's European Championships.

"It was a very disappointing performance", Dunphy claimed. "We were completely outplayed by a pretty ordinary Czech side who struggled to qualify (for Euro 2012).

"It was embarrassing at times the amount of possession they had. They looked like Barcelona. It was a badly set-up Irish team and a bit of a shambles."

"If we play like that in the championships we will be humiliated and embarrassed."

Dunphy also castigated Trapattoni's treatment of James McClean. "James McClean is a fantastic kid and he was treated very badly by Giovanni Trapattoni. In my view he should have been given 90 minutes, or at least 45 minutes. To give him 11 minutes at the end was insulting.
"Obviously the kid was thrilled but [how he was treated] was not professional."

Dunphy continued by claiming that Trapattoni's "amateurish" approach to the game is not liked by the majority of Irish footballing people, and that the veteran Italian has no respect for the quality of the Irish players.

"There is an amateurish and almost arrogant approach by Trapattoni that is depressing. I think [this opinion[ is shared by nearly everyone. I watched Sky's coverage of the game and Ray Houghton was baffled by what he was watching as well."

"It was baffling both tactically and in terms of personnel. Putting Paul Green and Stephen Hunt on before McClean and James McCarthy was stupid and there is no reason to it.
"This coach thinks he knows more about football than we do but he doesn't. He is making grotesque mistakes. He was fortunate to qualify, and he has very little support amongst the football community in this country now."

"He is arrogant because he thinks his system, which has been shown up repeatedly, and again by the Czech Republic, is the key to our success. He does not respect our players. He thinks he is managing Mongolia, or that we are some third-world footballing nation.
"We have some outstanding players and we should be able, and confident enough, to go out and play good football, as we tend to do when we need to get a goal."
"The goal we got against the Czechs was an outstanding strike by Simon Cox, and Keith Andrews did very well to close down his opponent and win the ball.
"We should have been playing like that from the start of the match, and we should always be playing like that. We should be on the front foot, looking to do the best we can and showing our players up in the best light."

Orando Broom

noodler wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2012/0301/trapattoni.html

Thursday, 1 March 2012 12:25

Great stuff from pantomine villian Dunphy there. For humiliated please rephrase as play well above expectation.

Orando Broom

stooge wrote: »

I'm not sure if you were at the match last night or not but (IMO) you could not be more wrong in your assessment. The workrate of Glenn Whelan last night was excellent, he closed down, made tackles and kept the ball moving. Keith Andrews (despite the RTE reports) was poor. He didnt close down the Czech when they had the ball for 85 minutes, he hardly made a tackle and (apart from one ball to Keane in the first half) didnt go forward with the ball at all. I would say the majority of people sitting around me were saying the same thing.

We must have been at two differnet games! From what I saw Andrews played well last night. Ok he did give the ball away a few times but he covered a lot of ground and was a good protective shield on the back four. Honestly I could not see one telling contribution Whelan made bar the knock in the centre circle and a good sliding challenge. When he got the knock I was hoping it was serious enough to warrent his removal such was his contribution up to that point (43 mins or so.)

Andrews was on the ball a lot and his passing was as usual rudimentary but for the most part kept the moves ticking over. He also set up the goal

One thing I can't fathom how you can criticise him for not 'closing down' the Czech midfield when that is something neither player has done to any degree for two years. Their job is to cover the back four and close the space and keep a tight bank of midfield in front of the back four to prevent runners from going through the centre. He did this. Whelan did this but I felt Whelan was second to everything and once or twice let Czech moves bypass him when he was taken out of the game by an over the top ball. He should have tracked back twice I can think of.

I suppose that is part of the fun of watching live football is that different people see differnet things differently. I can't, any won't say you are wrong, but I will disagree with your assessment.

noodler

Orando Broom wrote: »

Great stuff from pantomine villian Dunphy there. For humiliated please rephrase as play well above expectation.

Whilst he is obviously going overboard, the complaints about possession are as true now as they were when we played Cyprus at home at the beginning of 2009.

Orando Broom

noodler wrote: »

Whilst he is obviously going overboard, the complaints about possession are as true now as they were when we played Cyprus at home at the beginning of 2009.

Look, with Dunphy, there is always a kernal of truth in what he says. That is what he is good at. You can't outrightly reject his ramblings. Still the hyperbole and the inflammatory words. Humiliated? Ireland under Trap have yet to be humiliated.

noodler

Orando Broom wrote: »

Look, with Dunphy, there is always a kernal of truth in what he says. That is what he is good at. You can't outrightly reject his ramblings. Still the hyperbole and the inflammatory words. Humiliated? Ireland under Trap have yet to be humiliated.

I am not going to say humilated or anything like that.

There have been games where we were completely outplayed (Russia twice), or when we have let teams of a similar ability or lesser ability (Bulgaria, Cyprus, Macedonia) have far too much of the ball.

Its a rehash of an old debate alright but you still fear the team:

1) Won't be able to recover from going a goal down (Last night's friendly excluded, I am struggling to think of many competitive games where we did - Italy in Bari? (when they had ten men) or France in Paris (on aggregate obviously but that was with the shackles off).

2) I also worry that a trick could be missed if one of Croatia, Spain or Italy are not at the races when we play them (for whatever reason) and we don't really try to take advantage.

Gringo180

Its a pity Mick McCarthy isn't managing this bunch of players because we would be a real threat in the euro's.

I can see nothing but a point (against Italy) in the summer for us unfortunately, Spain and Croatia will beat us by the odd goal or 2 but will dominate the game with the way Trap sets up his team

ronsgonawin

Gringo180 wrote: »

Its a pity Mick McCarthy isn't managing this bunch of players because we would be a real threat in the euro's.

I can see nothing but a point (against Italy) in the summer for us unfortunately, Spain and Croatia will beat us by the odd goal or 2 but will dominate the game with the way Trap sets up his team

Yep and the idiots at the FA already signed him up for the world cup. It will be more of the same too many draw not enough wins.

Orando Broom

noodler wrote: »

I am not going to say humilated or anything like that.

There have been games where we were completely outplayed (Russia twice), or when we have let teams of a similar ability or lesser ability (Bulgaria, Cyprus, Macedonia) have far too much of the ball.

Its a rehash of an old debate alright but you still fear the team:

1) Won't be able to recover from going a goal down (Last night's friendly excluded, I am struggling to think of many competitive games where we did - Italy in Bari? (when they had ten men) or France in Paris (on aggregate obviously but that was with the shackles off).

2) I also worry that a trick could be missed if one of Croatia, Spain or Italy are not at the races when we play them (for whatever reason) and we don't really try to take advantage.

Absolutely, I don't disagree with you on either of those points. However I still think there is a good harmony with the team where they do thorw off the shackles themselves when the time is right.

I have flipped and flopped on Trap so many times that I actually don't think I have an opinion on him! For now I'll repeat the mantra 'In Trap I trust'. For now! we are heading to the Euros; rightly or wrongly he helped get us there.

For all the crap and depression swirling around the country there is a bit of a feel good vibe because of the qualification. I hope it is helping to take the minds of a lot of worries a lot of people are having so I'll refrain from giving out too mcuh about him!

noodler

Gringo180 wrote: »

Its a pity Mick McCarthy isn't managing this bunch of players because we would be a real threat in the euro's.

I can see nothing but a point (against Italy) in the summer for us unfortunately, Spain and Croatia will beat us by the odd goal or 2 but will dominate the game with the way Trap sets up his team

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Yep and the idiots at the FA already signed him up for the world cup. It will be more of the same too many draw not enough wins.

Ah lads, lets have a little perspective.

Orando Broom wrote: »

Absolutely, I don't disagree with you on either of those points. However I still think there is a good harmony with the team where they do thorw off the shackles themselves when the time is right.

I have flipped and flopped on Trap so many times that I actually don't think I have an opinion on him! For now I'll repeat the mantra 'In Trap I trust'. For now! we are heading to the Euros; rightly or wrongly he helped get us there.

For all the crap and depression swirling around the country there is a bit of a feel good vibe because of the qualification. I hope it is helping to take the minds of a lot of worries a lot of people are having so I'll refrain from giving out too mcuh about him!

Ah of course qualification is excellent - there will be no buzz like it in the country as May and June approach but we do have to have these discussions regardless!

I said that if he gets us there he should get a new contract and he did so he did so I don't want any of the criticisms I make to be misinterpreted as a "Trap out" agenda or anything.

I completely agree about the team spirit and workrate. Dunphy made a similar point that the players will throw off the shackles when a goal is needed but (and again repeating the same point in a different way) I worry the only time we will need a goal is when we are a goal down.

TaosHum

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Yep and the idiots at the FA already signed him up for the world cup. It will be more of the same too many draw not enough wins.

In fairness to the FAI, I dont think they had any other option considering he fulfilled what they asked of him.

Once Trap said he wanted to stay on longer (and Denis O'Brien was still willing to help out with his wages), then their wasn't going to be an other outcome.

Pro. F

JayMul wrote: »

It isn't anywhere near the level Premiership or the Championship & until a player can prove he can survive at the top level he is total risk coming from LOI to play International football. To add to that you could destroy a young players career and confidence by selecting him prematurely, this is why it should rarely happen.

The risk to the team of finding out that a player is not good enough is not as big as you are making out. The national team won't unravel if an LOI player is given a chance for half an hour in some friendly. I agree that there is a risk a young player's confidence will be harmed if thrown in too soon, but that's only a serious factor for very young players (18 or less).

The transfer market is far from perfect and the national team manager can scout players just like any of the mostly shìte English league managers can. Nothing magical happens when a player moves across the Irish sea and has a handful of first team games. They are still the same players with the same skills, they just get more recognition.

JayMul

Pro. F wrote: »

The risk to the team of finding out that a player is not good enough is not as big as you are making out. The national team won't unravel if an LOI player is given a chance for half an hour in some friendly. I agree that there is a risk a young player's confidence will be harmed if thrown in too soon, but that's only a serious factor for very young players (18 or less)..

The only risk I was talking about is exposing a young player too soon and hampering his prospects, like you say confidence. If he performs well then you may be actually helping his prospects but the risk is too great and the player would need to show maturity beyond his years in order for it to be worth a gamble. Age is only a number, some players mature a lot later than others, McClean strikes me as a bit of a late developer.

Pro. F wrote: »

The transfer market is far from perfect and the national team manager can scout players just like any of the mostly shìte English league managers can. Nothing magical happens when a player moves across the Irish sea and has a handful of first team games. They are still the same players with the same skills, they just get more recognition.

Surely they receive better coaching, mentoring, play to a lot higher level and should improve their fitness and mentality,with better regimes playing in far superior league. This can happen quite quickly, in the space of three - six months a young player can develop very quickly with the right attitude.

Sunderland appear to have an amazing facility to do this to young players, I watched how Wellbeck turned from a skinny runt to a bit of a tank during his time there.