Travelling to France [Passport Question]

DanGlee

Hi

I was just wondering on the expiration of my sons passport and travelling to France.

His passport runs out in July and we are travelling in May.

I'm pretty sure that as long as we return before it expires it should be fine (only going for a few days)

I have heard obviously stories saying you need 3 months or 6 months etc... any info much appreciated.


DG.

lynchie

European Passport valid for all european countries up until the day it expires.

Procrastastudy

lynchie wrote: »

European Passport valid for all european countries up until the day it expires.

No they are not Spain is just one example - get in touch with the Airline / Ferry Company

odds_on

Why not just renew it before you go on holiday.

schemingbohemia

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

No they are not Spain is just one example - get in touch with the Airline / Ferry Company

Care to quote some legislation there rather than continue to promote this urban myth?

From www.passport.ie


Q. Do I need six months validity on my passport for overseas travel?
A. An Irish passport holder does not need six months validity on their passport for entry to the United States of America. Irish citizens travelling to destinations outside the EU are subject to the specific passport controls and requirements of those countries. This means a minimum passport validity may be required for entry into individual countries. The exact requirements vary from one country to another so it is advisable to contact the embassy of the relevant country before making arrangements to travel.
All EU citizens have the right to enter and live in the territory of another member state of the EU for up to three months. A valid passport with no minimum validity is required.
The United States has an agreement with some countries (including Ireland) that allows you to enter on a current passport up to the actual date of expiration. An Irish passport need remain valid only for the duration of the holder's stay in the United States. Irish citizens intending to travel to the United States are advised to check the conditions for visa free travel, particularly in relation to the requirement to obtain a travel authorisation prior to travel and the requirement to travel with a machine readable passport. Further information is available from the website of the US Embassy in Dublin http://dublin.usembassy.gov/

DanGlee

Thanks. I just found this too:

For EU citizens
Passport or identity card


There are no longer any frontier controls at the borders between 22 EU countries. This is thanks to the Schengen rules which are part of EU law. These rules remove all internal border controls but put in place effective controls at the external borders of the EU and introduce a common visa policy. All EU countries are full Schengen members except for Bulgaria, Cyprus, Ireland, Romania and the United Kingdom. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are also Schengen members but are not in the EU.
You will therefore need to present a valid passport or ID card when travelling to the five non-Schengen countries and when entering or leaving the EU at the external borders. Carry them when travelling in the EU because they may be required for identification or security purposes. Be aware that the only valid ID is the one obtained from national authorities.

Make sure that any children travelling with you either have their own passport or ID card or are registered on your passport. However, from 26 June 2012, children will need to have their own passport or ID card to travel (even if they are still mentioned in their parent’s passport, which remains valid).

Procrastastudy

It's not only about the requirements of the country the Airline &c. may have their own policies. Policies which I'm sure can be argued againt but personally I'd be making a quick phone call now rather than standing there at the Ryanair desk saying "well according to boards.ie there is no legislation on the matter".

Edit - I'm wrong about Spain - I'm not wrong about checking Airline policies
Also where would I find Spanish legislation? :P

DanGlee

Thanks. I will have to check the tickets when I get home and see what airline it is it, i can check their site and ring them if there is no info.

I'm trying to get a new one, but its all to do with battling with the ex, so would be easier just to use this one and not try and make her rush it and have to do something. Most info "so far" points to it being OK as we are all one big happy EU family! [lol]!!!

Dodge

DanGlee, there is absolutely no problem with travelling between Ireland and France up to the expiry of your passport (or your child's)

Airlines don't have any regulations or policies relating to expiry dates

Enjoy your trip

schemingbohemia

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

No they are not Spain is just one example - get in touch with the Airline / Ferry Company

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

It's not only about the requirements of the country the Airline &c. may have their own policies. Policies which I'm sure can be argued againt but personally I'd be making a quick phone call now rather than standing there at the Ryanair desk saying "well according to boards.ie there is no legislation on the matter".

Edit - I'm wrong about Spain - I'm not wrong about checking Airline policies
Also where would I find Spanish legislation? :P

You're changing what you stated to suit your purposes. Both the OP and the response to it which you quoted in your original reply were solely to do with Passport Validity not Airline/Ferry/Donkey & Cart requirements.

You were the one who brought up Spain being an exception, ok you've admitted you were wrong.

You do realise you don't need to comment on every thread? Particularly when you have incorrect information to give?

Procrastastudy

I only comment on the ones I think I'm right on or have a question/opinion.

In this case I'm wrong. I still think its worth checking with the Airline / Donkey handler - this opinion isn't based on having read every single term and condition of every possible mode of transport to France and lets be fair neither is yours. I'm sure your's is based on a much better legal opinion than mine. I am perhaps being over cautious.

I still have a niggling feeling there are countries in the EU that has passport requirements... Perhaps I'm mixing this up with urban myth/no EU countries.

EDIT: Digging around I think its Belgium...

Marcusm

The Shengen references are irrelevant as Ireland is not a Schengen country.

There should not be a need to read Spanish legislation as Spanish law is not permitted to restrict your rights under the EU treaties. The national identity document (which for Ireland means only a passport) must not have expired prior to entry into the other member state. It need not be valid until your return date (although this would generally be sensible for short trips).

EU citizens are entitled to renew their passports while in a host state.

The airline/ferry rules are a different matter, unfortunately.

Dodge

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I still have a niggling feeling there are countries in the EU that has passport requirements... Perhaps I'm mixing this up with urban myth/no EU countries.

Read the link posted above.

It is 100% correct to say a person traveling within the EU on an Irish passport, can do so up to the final day of its validity.

Please stop trying to confuse the OP. He and his child can travel. There is no question about this

DanGlee

Thanks Dodge.

I'm pretty confident we should be OK.

Disneyland here we come

- Its for the little'en, not me... honest

Procrastastudy

lynchie wrote: »

European Passport valid for all european countries up until the day it expires.

Dodge wrote: »

Read the link posted above.

It is 100% correct to say a person traveling within the EU on an Irish passport, can do so up to the final day of its validity.

Please stop trying to confuse the OP. He and his child can travel. There is no question about this

Err.. so the very first answer to this post was wrong then?

schemingbohemia

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Err.. so the very first answer to this post was wrong then?

What are you on about? Jaysus wept, just leave it alone will you.

number10a

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I still have a niggling feeling there are countries in the EU that has passport requirements... Perhaps I'm mixing this up with urban myth/no EU countries.

EDIT: Digging around I think its Belgium...

The entire Schengen Area which makes up nearly all of the EU, has the same entry requirements throughout. So, no. Belgium does not have its own weird entry requirements. And by the way, I'm guessing that niggling feelings and "I thinks" aren't really what people are looking for in the Legal Discussion forum.

As others have said, a European passport is valid across the EU right up until the day it expires. What would be the point of an expiry date if the fècking thing was only valid in practice until a few months before that date?

Procrastastudy

I thought this was a discussion board? If you don't want to have a discussion don't respond.

What you have failed to notice (and admittedly me too until my last post) is that lynchie has posted ref Europe and not the EU. So although my post was wrong and quite properly debunked by your post - you then went on to attack me personally and the common sense of checking an airlines T&Cs. My goal was to give the OP advice yours seems to be to prove me wrong - to wit you have succeeded, to a degree...

If you post on a discussion forum you should expect a discussion and not absolute answers. I think the OP is smart enough to make his own decision. His words on crazy chicks seems quite sage IMO.

EDIT as has been posted we are not party to the Schengen Area agreement. Up until at least very recently UK passport holders required 3 months on their passports... specifically because they were a country not party to the SAA*. In regards to your "I thinks" comments they are also not looking for unqualified answers which are wrong! 90% of whats on these boards is incorrect information - a right answer is normally got though a discussion.

EDIT EDIT - *sorry I should qualify that by saying - from what I have been reading and in relation to Belgium.

number10a

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

EDIT as has been posted we are not party to the Schengen Area agreement. Up until at least very recently UK passport holders required 3 months on their passports... specifically because they were a country not party to the SAA. In regards to your "I thinks" comments they are also not looking for unqualified answers which are wrong! 90% of whats on these boards is incorrect information - a right answer is normally got though a discussion.

I know we're not party to the Schengen Agreement. But as EU citizens we have unlimited right of abode in all of the agreement's member countries and as a result, the only entry requirement imposed on us is an identity check. What I was in fact pointing out was that entry rules for all Schengen member countries are uniform, so neither Belgium nor Spain nor any other member can have different requirements from the rest, as you were stating. Looking back on my post I cannot see how you interpreted what I said any differently.

Dodge

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

In regards to your "I thinks" comments they are also not looking for unqualified answers which are wrong! 90% of whats on these boards is incorrect information - a right answer is normally got though a discussion.

The right answer, with reference, was given in the 5th post. you have done nothing to help provide the right asnwer, and in fact have provided several wrong "answers"

Procrastastudy

I honestly think you are wrong about Belgium. You are also still referring to a European passport as opposed to an EU one. I'm not sure if that is because the European passport has the same validity as an EU one or not. Without any sarcasm I am happy to be enlightened...

My interpretation of you post is taken from my above assertion that you are wrong about Belgium. An assertion that I am happy to be proved wrong on.

number10a

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I honestly think you are wrong about Belgium. You are also still referring to a European passport as opposed to an EU one. I'm not sure if that is because the European passport has the same validity as an EU one or not.

I'm not wrong about Belgium. Personal experience proves that one to me. How can Belgium have seperate entry requirements to Luxembourg, France, Germany and the Netherlands at its airports when it has open borders with all four of these countries? It doesn't make sense to have one rule for the airports and one rule for the roads and rail. I'm not even going to bother trying to prove it to you.

And anyway, you're almost certain about Belgium, but a few minutes ago it was Spain?

And European passport/EU passport - you know well what I mean. What do you think I'd mean if I was talking about an American passport?

Dodge

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I honestly think you are wrong about Belgium. You are also still referring to a European passport as opposed to an EU one. I'm not sure if that is because the European passport has the same validity as an EU one or not. Without any sarcasm I am happy to be enlightened...

There's no such thing as a european passport. lynchie clearly meant EU passport

My interpretation of you post is taken from my above assertion that you are wrong about Belgium. An assertion that I am happy to be proved wrong on.

Will the FCO guidelines do you?

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/belgium#entryRequirements

For British citizens

You must hold a valid passport to enter Belguim. For stays of up to three months your passport must be valid for the proposed duration of your stay; you do not need any additional period of validity on your passport beyond this.

Procrastastudy

number10a wrote: »

I'm not wrong about Belgium. Personal experience proves that one to me. How can Belgium have seperate entry requirements to Luxembourg, France, Germany and the Netherlands at its airports when it has open borders with all four of these countries? It doesn't make sense to have one rule for the airports and one rule for the roads and rail. I'm not even going to bother trying to prove it to you.

And European passport/EU passport - you know well what I mean. What do you think I'd mean if I was talking about an American passport?

You seem to proceed in you last line from the assumption I was being smart - I honestly wasnlt your knowledge on the matter seems far greater than mine. I thought that there may be some provision for non-eu European states.

By the way http://www.worldtravelguide.net/belgium/passport-visa is where I was reading up. I realise it doesn't make reference to Ireland but I infered it from it mentioning all the other non SAA countries.

EDIT again I'm not trying to be smart - I assumed he meant a passport issued by a country inside Europe. I assume there is some definition of an EU passport? Other than a passport issued by an EU member state?

lynchie

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I honestly think you are wrong about Belgium. You are also still referring to a European passport as opposed to an EU one. I'm not sure if that is because the European passport has the same validity as an EU one or not. Without any sarcasm I am happy to be enlightened...

My interpretation of you post is taken from my above assertion that you are wrong about Belgium. An assertion that I am happy to be proved wrong on.

Technically I referred to all european countries when in fact I meant all EU member states which may have been slightly confusing.

Also, no such things as an EU passport per se, its a collective term for a passport issued by an EU member state.

And there is an EU directive covering the "Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States" which states

All Union citizens have the right to enter another Member State by virtue of having an identity card or valid passport. Under no circumstances can an entry or exit visa be required. Where the citizens concerned do not have travel documents, the host Member State must afford them every reasonable means in obtaining the requisite documents or having them sent.

coylemj

Can I just bring this back to the OP's question about travelling to France.....

I've been over twice on the Rosslare ferry to France and on both occasions the French cops have waved us through without looking for any documentation and going home we weren't asked for passports either.

I know the Schengen agreement doesn't apply to travellers moving between Ireland and France but it seems to me that the French authorities in Cherbourg and Roscoff couldn't be bothered asking Irish mororists for passports as they come off the ferry.

Our man in Havana

I have never had more than a brief glance at my passport when arriving by car into France. I went via the channel tunnel and once the police saw the cover of the passport they waved me through.

Marcusm

number10a wrote: »

I know we're not party to the Schengen Agreement. But as EU citizens we have unlimited right of abode in all of the agreement's member countries and as a result, the only entry requirement imposed on us is an identity check.

that's a fail unfortunately, no unlimited right of abode exists. What you have is a right to enter with only an identity check and subsequently to remain for up to three months with limited qualifying criteria (funds to maintain yourself ad medical insurance). Thereafter, you will only have the ability to remain in certain circumstances (exercising employment or self employment rights, of retirement age, full time student or able to demonstrate financial self sufficiency). Unlimited rights of abode (referred to as permanent resident status) applies only after 5 years of exercising treaty right.

As ever, Irish people get a more beneficial status in the uk and do have rights of abode from arrival.

Our man in Havana

It is only filling up a few forms at the end of the day. I has a five year card now.

Even that said that I know many people here who have never done the paperwork and have lived for here for years. The police do not care. A valid passport is all they are worried about.

MrPudding

coylemj wrote: »

Can I just bring this back to the OP's question about travelling to France.....

I've been over twice on the Rosslare ferry to France and on both occasions the French cops have waved us through without looking for any documentation and going home we weren't asked for passports either.

I know the Schengen agreement doesn't apply to travellers moving between Ireland and France but it seems to me that the French authorities in Cherbourg and Roscoff couldn't be bothered asking Irish mororists for passports as they come off the ferry.

Same here. The OH is French and we go over 3 or 4 times a year. We, OH and 4 kids, have never had to show ID getting into France.

With respect to minimum validity requirements, Ryanair previously would only accept a passport with at least 6 months left on it. They don't seem to have that requirement any more:

http://www.ryanair.com/en/terms-and-conditions#regulations-traveldocumentation

MrP