Jake Elleneberger has a better chance of beating GSP than Condit or Diaz?

Be like Nutella

I reckon Jake is the man to take GSP out, if anyone is this year or next.




Check out his record 26-5-0

Lost just once in last 10 fights, to Condit, in a 3 round dodgy split decision. That was 2 and half years ago... different fighter now...stepped it up.... since then he's on a 5 in a row tear in the UFC including battering Jake Shields (and beating Mike Pyle)

Close on 6' with a 73 inch reach (still shorter reach than GSP by 3 inches mind you)
Has great power and good boxing and is a wrestling coach... so I assume his wrestling isn't bad...not that you see too much of it before he drops people.

He's finished 17 guys with strikes !! with 4 one punch KO's so he can deffo drop people ... more than Diaz or Condit IMO.

Doesn't like to go to submissions - only a couple in his career verses 14 Sub finishes for Condit. Likes to use good wrestling to stay up...goes to his muay thai (which is good) when necessary in the clinch... is a purple belt in BJJ, like Condit.

here's a highlight
http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Jake-Ellenberger-13068

you can see straight away he's got that raw brawl instinct... IMO even more than Condit... and if flurries happen v GSP he'd come out on top I reckon... I'm not saying he's better...none of them are even close but he's got more to give and I reckon GSP would fear him much more than the tippy tappy Diaz or Condit who's main weapon is his unpredictability and awkward strikes.

In pure strength he's probably close to GSP where the other lads would be about as strong as GSP's little sister in comparison.

What do yez reckon? if it happened in next 6 months who'd have the best chance in a 5 round title fight?

Condit?
Diaz?
Ellenberger?

Logical Fallacy

Nobody beats GSP until age gets to him. This knee injury won't hurt him at all...the guy is a freak who trains with the best.

I don't see anything about Elleneberger that makes me think he could beat GSP...because GSP would gameplan the **** out of him the same way he does everyone else.

Would he beat Diaz and Condit? I reckon so...but he wouldn't beat GSP. Nobody would and nobody will for a while.

Be like Nutella

well for one, he could knock GSP out....
secondly he could just blast through GSP in the first 15 seconds out of nowhere moreso than anyone else... and that would be a serious possibility of a game plan for Ellenberger.
I don't agree that there's nothing about Jake that says he could beat GSP.... most agree he has the power to knock him out even though I reckon GSP has a good chin.
If GSP planned in control the bubble with Jake and try and parry in with strikes like stiff jabs he'd have trouble not gettin countered moreso than with anyone else.... if they got into it Jake could drop GSP... easily possible... in fact I reckon GSP would choose to go back a few years and try and stay low and wrestle with Jake...but G'n'Ping Jake Ellenberger is VERY unlikely too...he's a tough MF... and he has a rock solid chin...like one of the best chins around... I saw him take a ****ing hammer to the head in an M1 fight ages back and he brushed it off...granite head on ther lad... his game has gotten much more disciplined and compact and more strictly MMA boxing style..and less MT....stance etc... his footwork is probably as good as anyones...close to GSPs which is the best I reckon.

would be GSP's toughest fight in his career...and Jake couldn't be more prepared than he is this year.... if it happened and Jake took it on a counter punch to TKO I don't think people would consider it a complete massive shock ... if anyone can...Jake can...is what I'm sayin... and there's lots to support it.

Logical Fallacy

It's not about having power, or BJJ, or wrestling...it's about being a more complete package than GSP, with better conditioning, better willpower, better cardio, a better gameplan and better preparation.

Basically your argument seems to be that he has a punchers chance of beating GSP, which everyone has.

The very fact that if "they got into it" as you said Jake could counter KO him means GSP would never let that happen.

He wins because he is pretty much impossible to pull out of his gameplan and i just don't see Elleneberger as having that kind of ability.

To beat GSP the onus is on him to keep it on the feet, which is easier said that done against GSP. GSP doesn't need to try and go for a finish on the ground because his control is so good he can ride you for 25 minutes while eating away at your energy until eventually you just end up beating yourself up with GSP.

Sure, he has a chance of beating GSP, but it's not that much greater than anyone elses chance.

Just my opinion.

Be like Nutella

I don't think my argument is that Ellenberger has only a punchers chance.... nor do most I'd say. He's got great cardio now ...his chin is granite... he's got one punch KO power and he's more dangerous to GSP than either Diaz or Condit... so you've answered my question as per thread title that you think...fairly clearly it seems that Jake has the best chance.. but YOU think it's just a punchers chance. Fair enough, I disagree and I think it's easy to make a case for Jake getting the upset.. plus if he lost a decision to a GSP 5 round game plan think of what the rematch would be like... the guys only 26 right now ...on the up...improving in every respect with every fight and every month that passes.. I saw him years ago on extreme in M1 and instantly sent an email to a buddy of mine saying watch closely how this kid progresses and I'm glad to see him biting at the heels of the top contenders... nobody else on the horizon right now has as much of a chance at upsetting the GSP train as the Juggernaut!!

The Voice of MMA

He would not beat gsp the man is a master with game plans and he sticks to them..and condit is the one at the min who has earned a shot at title so let's see what way this plays out..

Be like Nutella

I know Condit has earned the shot...and I believe he disserves it too but he's less dangerous to GSP than Ellenberger IMO and Diaz is gona get next after Condit so Jake won’t even get a shot til next year anyway - prob late into next year by which time I reckon he'll have beaten Story, Brenneman and maybe Hendricks!

The Bored One

Eh Ellenberger hasn't really stood out to me too much. He has ability and potential but then so do most fighters in the UFC, its sort of why they're in it. Generally what marks a fighter to me as truly high level is first if they look genuinely comfortable in all ranges, both offensive and defensively. Its not just about being able to win when you're in your element, its about being able to put it there and keep it there. Then there's the number of the weapons they have available in those ranges. In a fight where both want to work in the same range those few extra tools can make a major difference. Another thing that marks them out to me is fluidity, how smoothly they mix and transition the different elements. Best time for a takedown is when the opponent thinks you're all about the striking. The ability to change the game smoothly can put them always a move or two ahead of the opponent.
And so far Ellenberger hasn't shown me any of that.

Be like Nutella

yeah Jake Ellenberger doesn't stand out too much....

and after he beats down Sanchez.... and then Hendricks or whoever they give him he won't stand out then either.... nobody does when your only scale is the GSP scale... nobody is as good as GSP... I think we're well aware of that at this stage... that's not anything like the point I'm making... I'm simply saying Jake is the best likely candidate out there right now to beat GSP... and there's a lot of pundits out there who agree... he's regarded as the number 1 prospect by a lot of experts.... basically you can make a case for Jake beating any fighter in the world at 170 apart from GSP... Big, Very Powerful, Great Cardio, wrestling based talented striker with KO power, a complete MMA fighter....so obviously not a stand out nooo.... I'm a big fan obviously but fan or not the opinions are out there everywhere that he's one of the best... I happen to reckon he's the second best 170er in the world and poses the biggest threat to GSP especially by the time he gets to fight him.. which hopefully is before Georges has fought his best rounds...so anything up to the next 24-36 months or so.. but hey everything could change right.

SevereMMA

I see Condit beating GSP, not saying that he defo will or anything but i can see it happening, unlike with other opponents like Koscheck, Fitch etc

Condit has a lot different tools and is a very smart fighter.

Also GSP hasn't finished a fight since Greasegate, all decisions and he nearly lost to Jake Shields who is very tough but doesn't have the variety of weapons Condit does.

pauldoo

SevereMMA wrote: »

I see Condit beating GSP, not saying that he defo will or anything but i can see it happening, unlike with other opponents like Koscheck, Fitch etc

Condit has a lot different tools and is a very smart fighter.

Also GSP hasn't finished a fight since Greasegate, all decisions and he nearly lost to Jake Shields who is very tough but doesn't have the variety of weapons Condit does.

Haha, did you see that fight, very comfy win for GSP, showed how limited shields is on the feet

mailburner

SevereMMA wrote: »

I see Condit beating GSP, not saying that he defo will or anything but i can see it happening, unlike with other opponents like Koscheck, Fitch etc

So can I,

He has all the tools and will have a gameplan and stick to it but my
opinion is that he will come closest to matching gsp right now
ive no doubt his takedown defence will be as good as anybodys
come fight day also which should make it even closer

Xlami

Right I know a host of people will probably disagree with me but at the end of the day the UFC are marketing geniuses. On the face of things they've built up Conduit and Ellenberger up very well as exciting guys who finish and now look to be a real threat to G.S.P. In reality they've built them up by keeping them away from the world class wrestlers at WW e.g. Fitch, Kos and Hughes. Those are 3 guys GSP managed to outwrestle himself. Conduit and Ellenberger will not be able to cope with the wrestling of GSP and until I see someone comfortably out wrestlse one of the 3 WW's I've mentioned I won't be predicting anyone to beat Georges.

The Bored One

Be like Nutella wrote: »

yeah Jake Ellenberger doesn't stand out too much....

and after he beats down Sanchez.... and then Hendricks or whoever they give him he won't stand out then either.... nobody does when your only scale is the GSP scale... nobody is as good as GSP... I think we're well aware of that at this stage... that's not anything like the point I'm making... I'm simply saying Jake is the best likely candidate out there right now to beat GSP... and there's a lot of pundits out there who agree... he's regarded as the number 1 prospect by a lot of experts.... basically you can make a case for Jake beating any fighter in the world at 170 apart from GSP... Big, Very Powerful, Great Cardio, wrestling based talented striker with KO power, a complete MMA fighter....so obviously not a stand out nooo.... I'm a big fan obviously but fan or not the opinions are out there everywhere that he's one of the best... I happen to reckon he's the second best 170er in the world and poses the biggest threat to GSP especially by the time he gets to fight him.. which hopefully is before Georges has fought his best rounds...so anything up to the next 24-36 months or so.. but hey everything could change right.

You're a big fan of Ellenberger? I never would have guessed....

Anyway, you're saying we shouldnt use GSP as the scale by which to judge Ellenberger. Given that you're talking about him beating GSP, what other scale would make sense?
Yes, Ellenberger has tools that if used correctly could beat GSP. But, so what? So has every other contender, that's why they were the contender. Because there is something they possess that could potentially be a threat. Of course as we've seen GSP has a tendency to prevent opponents using those threats, but thats beside the point.
The point here is that you say he is a threat to GSP, and I agree. But that doesn't make him special, it just means he's in the queue.
I'm also not saying there's no way he could beat GSP or anything at all like that. If what was going to happen in a fight was certain they might as well just get in the ring and play rock-paper-scissors.
I don't think it likely, but I accept the possibilty that Ellenberger could beat GSP.
But even if he does? Then what? He might be able to take the belt but I doubt he'd hold it. When I look at Ellenberger I might possibly see a potential upset (though not one I'd think is likely) but I don't see a champion.
I don't see someone who could take the belt and hold it.
So unless there are some major changes in his abilities, I seem him as being high level, but not top level.

But, back to your actual original question. Is Ellenberger more of a threat than Diaz or Condit?
He's probably more of a threat than Diaz. Diaz would hate the kind of fight GSP would give him. We all saw how frustrated he got with Condit refusing to stand and trade with him, and he doesn't adapt well when he's frustrated.
As for Condit, thats a harder call. I think the biggest threat there is because he's shown he can fight smart. I still think GSP would win it, but Condit could throw a spanner in the works.
So Ellenberger is more of a threat than Diaz, but less than Condit.

SevereMMA

pauldoo wrote: »

Haha, did you see that fight, very comfy win for GSP, showed how limited shields is on the feet

Yea i did, and he got very tentative when his eye was poked, and i don't really rate Jake Shields as a top contender, i think Diaz would beat him comfortably

On another day with terrible judges like the Sherk Dunham decision and he could have lost

I have not been impressed with GSP recently