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UCD Ents and Student Bar
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11-02-2012 1:10am#1While the UCD Ents have been more proactive than late... it really is more so and so for the most part... with a lot of the same kind of music and no real risk or adventure for the most part...
Would like to see more Indie/ Rock bands performing as well as new and upcoming bands, give musicans a platform to play, as well as making it a nice affordable night.
Same can be said for the UCD Ball... they book these acts that for the most part are **** yet end up costing loads of money. Surely for the ticket charge, we could one or two pretty good bands and then get decent but good bands for the rest, that won't cost as much.... think differently, instead of trying to be something it will never be.
Also, please, enough of this cheesefest ****e already, S Club 7 and Five, I mean seriously?
Would also like to see some outdoor gig sessions by the lake during the summer, would be nice and something different.
UCD Ents needs a shake-up, its not inventive or good enough for a college the size of UCD. Also think they should do similar to the Pav, and allow students to buy cans at the bar instead, this business of charging €4.50 for a pint is ridicolous... Trinity has a better bar, with a better atmosphere than UCD Student bar, despite the fact it competes with all other bars in the City Centre area. Welcome to see any opinions and general debate on how UCD Ents can be bettered .. just want to invite discussion1
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http://www.universityobserver.ie/2012/01/20/ucd-students%E2%80%99-union-up-to-e1-million-in-debt/
No real chance of any of that happening I'm afraid.0 -
pljudge321 wrote: »http://www.universityobserver.ie/2012/01/20/ucd-students%E2%80%99-union-up-to-e1-million-in-debt/
No real chance of any of that happening I'm afraid.
That's my point though, if they stopped wasting money and learnt how to appropriate it properly then maybe they wouldn't be in such dire straits...
the UCD SU went on massive spending blitz, and like a teenager who didn't know that money didn't fall from the sky, acted in disbelief at how such a thing could ever have happened and wondering where did it all go wrong afterwards0 -
WoollyRedHat wrote: »While the UCD Ents have been more proactive than late... it really is more so and so for the most part... with a lot of the same kind of music and no real risk or adventure for the most part...
Would like to see more Indie/ Rock bands performing as well as new and upcoming bands, give musicans a platform to play, as well as making it a nice affordable night.
Same can be said for the UCD Ball... they book these acts that for the most part are **** yet end up costing loads of money. Surely for the ticket charge, we could one or two pretty good bands and then get decent but good bands for the rest, that won't cost as much.... think differently, instead of trying to be something it will never be.
Also, please, enough of this cheesefest ****e already, S Club 7 and Five, I mean seriously?
Would also like to see some outdoor gig sessions by the lake during the summer, would be nice and something different.
UCD Ents needs a shake-up, its not inventive or good enough for a college the size of UCD. Also think they should do similar to the Pav, and allow students to buy cans at the bar instead, this business of charging €4.50 for a pint is ridicolous... Trinity has a better bar, with a better atmosphere than UCD Student bar, despite the fact it competes with all other bars in the City Centre area. Welcome to see any opinions and general debate on how UCD Ents can be bettered .. just want to invite discussion
You're preaching to the converted here.
Get involved in Ents if you want to try and affect change, it's the only way to have any sort of say in that end of things.
I'd have said run for ents..... but you missed that boat by a few hours.0 -
In fairness, this is very annoying. First of all, we don't, common misconception aside, run or control the bar. So we have a limited say, we last year managed to get 3e drinks 3 if not 4 on some occasions nights of the week and no one went. This year we got them almost every thursday and still, you didn't go, if you were there you've a right to say something but if not get off boards and go to the bar with your mates and have a pint and some craic. It's your bar at the end of the day, we're students no different from you, do you not think we'd love there to be a great atmosphere again? Everyone pre drinks at home and goes to not even ents nights, it's not easy to make it work if everyone wants everything for free but goes mental at the SU when free things are put on.
As for UCD ball acts, we dont do that badly, Trinity SOMETIMES get slightly better acts cos they sold themselves out to MCD and tickets are never less than 70e, when was the last time a UCD ball ticket was more than 40e? A large survey was done by UCDSU last year and one of the questions was would you rather what we have now for 40e or more of a trinity model for 70e and almost everyone said what we have now. People need to see UCD for what it is and what people really want from it, which is a great day that everyone who actually wants to go to the thing has a laugh at, which IN FAIRNESS they do. If you want the biggest acts going, go to the 02 and pay for them, were a college SU, were not bigger than we are, we can only get what we can get, and lmfao, fakeblood, deadmau5, digitalism, boys noize, saw doctors, faithless, annie mac, the saturdays, like were not exactly doing bad for ourselves the last few years...0 -
Brendan Lacey wrote: »If you want the biggest acts going, go to the 02 and pay for them, were a college SU, were not bigger than we are, we can only get what we can get, and lmfao, fakeblood, deadmau5, digitalism, boys noize, saw doctors, faithless, annie mac, the saturdays, like were not exactly doing bad for ourselves the last few years...
The genre of music the SU brings is very one sided though and to be fair it has been the same bands more or less for the past 5 years.
Also you have been wasting a huge amount of students money and proven that the SU in its current form is unable to maintain itself and act responsibly. Redwollyhat above got it pretty much spot on.
You will also find that boards posters are actually students of UCD and go to events, they dont sit on their computers and not attend any events. Its usually a good judge of the mood of the populace around here rather than just the self indulgent gang in the corridor.0 -
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Brendan Lacey wrote: »like were not exactly doing bad for ourselves the last few years...
No praise like self praise!!
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The staff in the SU Bar could be sound, that would be a nice change. An open mic Tuesday would be cool. But it is entirely the awkward seating that is the problem with the SU Bar.0
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Good Lord, what was Brendan Lacey thinking of when he ran for C&C? Apart from slagging off The College Tribune on Facebook, or going on Belfield FM and saying that the station has not had enough listeners (despite not knowing the actual figures for himself or actually doing anything to help the station this year), he has now decided to go on boards at 4AM (!) to defend Ents.
And how? By claiming that Ents is frequented only by those who apparently never go the bar. " If you were there you've a right to say something but if not get off boards and go to the bar." In other words, it's your fault the bar is doing bad, not ours!
Trinity Ents sold out to MCD? They also sell out their ball every year, and aren't in over a million euro of debt. Still, at least UCD Ents/SU has its integrity :rolleyes:
As another poster said, have a bit of variety. Having Aslan or The Saw Doctors play is not any student's idea of alternative or indie in the year 2012. You are completely out of touch with everything.
It's a Godsend that Lacey is not running for any sabbatical position for next year. I wish him well on the (assumed) resumption of his degree, but he was a terrible sports officer and he has been an even worse C&C sabbat. Paddy Guiney has shown him how to run the sports position, and a blind and deaf person could communicate better than Brendo. Rant over!0 -
Scathing.0
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You liked Lacey's comment ya hack!
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Oasis_Dublin wrote: »Good Lord, what was Brendan Lacey thinking of when he ran for C&C? Apart from slagging off The College Tribune on Facebook, or going on Belfield FM and saying that the station has not had enough listeners (despite not knowing the actual figures for himself or actually doing anything to help the station this year), he has now decided to go on boards at 4AM (!) to defend Ents.
And how? By claiming that Ents is frequented only by those who apparently never go the bar. " If you were there you've a right to say something but if not get off boards and go to the bar." In other words, it's your fault the bar is doing bad, not ours!
Trinity Ents sold out to MCD? They also sell out their ball every year, and aren't in over a million euro of debt. Still, at least UCD Ents/SU has its integrity :rolleyes:
As another poster said, have a bit of variety. Having Aslan or The Saw Doctors play is not any student's idea of alternative or indie in the year 2012. You are completely out of touch with everything.
It's a Godsend that Lacey is not running for any sabbatical position for next year. I wish him well on the (assumed) resumption of his degree, but he was a terrible sports officer and he has been an even worse C&C sabbat. Paddy Guiney has shown him how to run the sports position, and a blind and deaf person could communicate better than Brendo. Rant over!GIFSoup
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Oasis_Dublin wrote: »And how? By claiming that Ents is frequented only by those who apparently never go the bar. " If you were there you've a right to say something but if not get off boards and go to the bar." In other words, it's your fault the bar is doing bad, not ours!
I think what he's trying to say is that it's easy to say that the bar should sell cans but if those who are asking for cans (& the general student population) don't attend nights that all drinks are €3 then they are very unlikely to suddenly start attending if they start selling cans. He is right on this.Trinity Ents sold out to MCD? They also sell out their ball every year, and aren't in over a million euro of debt. Still, at least UCD Ents/SU has its integrity :rolleyes:
So you would prefer the ball to cost €70 then?As another poster said, have a bit of variety. Having Aslan or The Saw Doctors play is not any student's idea of alternative or indie in the year 2012. You are completely out of touch with everything.
The issue is that good/relatively well known alternative or indie act cost a hell of a lot more than a good dj act and thus are much more risky if the event doesnt sell well. There simply isnt a market in UCD to charge students to see an unknown indie bands.0 -
I think what he's trying to say is that it's easy to say that the bar should sell cans but if those who are asking for cans (& the general student population) don't attend nights that all drinks are €3 then they are very unlikely to suddenly start attending if they start selling cans. He is right on this.
So you would prefer the ball to cost €70 then?
The issue is that good/relatively well known alternative or indie act cost a hell of a lot more than a good dj act and thus are much more risky if the event doesnt sell well. There simply isnt a market in UCD to charge students to see an unknown indie bands.
Point 1. If that's what he's trying to say, then he's wrong.
Point 2. No, I'm merely pointing out that Trinity Ents do a better job than UCD Ents.
Point 3. Charge them to see known indie bands then. Aslan was free the other night and there were what, fifty people there?
I've time for de Brun, who took on a difficult job, Or Breslin, who has done a pretty good job, but I've no time for Lacey. Even at that CopiPrint protest the other week, all he could do was sit on a step and mutter smart arse remarks. Fantastic communicator!0 -
Brendan Lacey wrote: »In fairness, this is very annoying. First of all, we don't, common misconception aside, run or control the bar. So we have a limited say, we last year managed to get 3e drinks 3 if not 4 on some occasions nights of the week and no one went. This year we got them almost every thursday and still, you didn't go, if you were there you've a right to say something but if not get off boards and go to the bar with your mates and have a pint and some craic. It's your bar at the end of the day, we're students no different from you, do you not think we'd love there to be a great atmosphere again? Everyone pre drinks at home and goes to not even ents nights, it's not easy to make it work if everyone wants everything for free but goes mental at the SU when free things are put on.
As for UCD ball acts, we dont do that badly, Trinity SOMETIMES get slightly better acts cos they sold themselves out to MCD and tickets are never less than 70e, when was the last time a UCD ball ticket was more than 40e? A large survey was done by UCDSU last year and one of the questions was would you rather what we have now for 40e or more of a trinity model for 70e and almost everyone said what we have now. People need to see UCD for what it is and what people really want from it, which is a great day that everyone who actually wants to go to the thing has a laugh at, which IN FAIRNESS they do. If you want the biggest acts going, go to the 02 and pay for them, were a college SU, were not bigger than we are, we can only get what we can get, and lmfao, fakeblood, deadmau5, digitalism, boys noize, saw doctors, faithless, annie mac, the saturdays, like were not exactly doing bad for ourselves the last few years...
Sorry, but that's an utter cop-out to blame other people for the failings of Ents and the Bar... for what's it worth though, I do go to the bar and try support it and would be more tempted to go more often if improvements were made, but why should people pay their money there, when there is no incentive to do so.
It is lazy to blame the students for the way things are... and I can't comment on last year because I wasn't here.. but back to my question, how come other college bars, like NUI Galway and Trinity who as I said, have to compete with a vast variety of pubs in the city centre for customers are faring better, yet UCD is failing to bring people in? Instead of looking for people to blame, the SU and the proprietors of the bar need to sit down and look for ways to improve the place and have a change of strategy instead of using the same unorginal ideas and unimaginative acts... it is surely the best interest for both parties. I'm just sounding out ideas, about how to re-invent the bar for the better of everybody... what harm would it be to try and lobby the bar to sell cans and see how it goes?
Aslan were booked for the SU Bar, and there were 50 people there? Hardly suprising really, when exactly were they last relevant, it seems you're a decade or two too late. There doesn't seem to be any proper consideration or attempt to appeal to the wider UCD populace when booking acts, it would nice to see variety and to the person who claimed they should book unknown indie acts, I stated up and coming acts on the music scene, who would be more than happy to build up an audience.. and provide a good gig for us, if the SU looked further afield for once.
In relation to the Ball, as a matter of interest, how much did it make last year? Fair enough, you have got a few good acts in the past, but you can't bask in past glories. As another person posted, Trinity ball outperforms the UCD Ball because it is managed better. Now we have the situation on our hands that the UCD ball will now clash with the TCD Ball this year... really not a good omen
Instead of going on the defensive, why not actively engage with the students?
I'm hopeful if there is a bar in the new Student centre that it will be of better quality in layout and all than the current one, and perhaps when it comes along the current student bar can be transformed into a common room or something with game consoles and general chill out area, with the pool tables kept there.
I've noticed this, some of them can be quite rude.RandolphEsq wrote: »The staff in the SU Bar could be sound, that would be a nice change. An open mic Tuesday would be cool. But it is entirely the awkward seating that is the problem with the SU Bar.0 -
Oasis_Dublin wrote: »Point 1. If that's what he's trying to say, then he's wrong.
How so? If people dont go to the bar when all drinks are €3 why would they suddenly turn up if cans are on sale?Point 2. No, I'm merely pointing out that Trinity Ents do a better job than UCD Ents.
How do they do a better job? Do you have any idea of the events Trinity Ents actually run?Point 3. Charge them to see known indie bands then. Aslan was free the other night and there were what, fifty people there?
You clearly dont get my point. If you bring in an unknown indie act then the bar will again have that Aslan style turn out. If Ents has a choice to bring in a relatively well known DJ/over the hill act for € X or bring in an up and coming indie band for 6/7 times that booking fee they'll obviously take the DJ so they can charge a lower ticket price and still be more likely to break even.I've time for de Brun, who took on a difficult job, Or Breslin, who has done a pretty good job, but I've no time for Lacey. Even at that CopiPrint protest the other week, all he could do was sit on a step and mutter smart arse remarks. Fantastic communicator!
I dont care if you like or hate Lacey. My issue is that you seem to have no clue how acts are booked, the risks involved in these bookings, how the bar works and the difference between how UCD and Trinty Ents are run and as a result you are making sweeping incorrect statements.0 -
WoollyRedHat wrote: »Sorry, but that's an utter cop-out to blame other people for the failings of Ents and the Bar... for what's it worth though, I do go to the bar and try support it and would be more tempted to go more often if improvements were made, but why should people pay their money there, when there is no incentive to do so.
As per my last response why do you believe people will turn up if cans are sold when they aren't when there are €3 drinks promotions?It is lazy to blame the students for the way things are... and I can't comment on last year because I wasn't here.. but back to my question, how come other college bars, like NUI Galway and Trinity who as I said, have to compete with a vast variety of pubs in the city centre for customers are faring better, yet UCD is failing to bring people in? Instead of looking for people to blame, the SU and the proprietors of the bar need to sit down and look for ways to improve the place and have a change of strategy instead of using the same unorginal ideas and unimaginative acts... it is surely the best interest for both parties. I'm just sounding out ideas, about how to re-invent the bar for the better of everybody... what harm would it be to try and lobby the bar to sell cans and see how it goes?
Firstly you're comparing apples with oranges when it comes to the examples you're using. Back in the days when the bar was thriving it was pre semesterisation and pre the days of large scale student nightclub promoters. Both of these have had a massive negative effect on the Bar and Ents. Back in those days a €3 night was unheard of in it or any club in Dublin. Now they're competing with clubs doing promotions for €2 and less so its impossible for them to lower their prices to the same level with their footfall (thats ignoring the uproar from UCD admin if prices were lowered to that rate). Also, when you try to compare it with Trinity & UCG you have to take into account the logistical nightmare it is for people to get to UCD for "predrinks" for an hour or two only to head into town.Aslan were booked for the SU Bar, and there were 50 people there? Hardly suprising really, when exactly were they last relevant, it seems you're a decade or two too late. There doesn't seem to be any proper consideration or attempt to appeal to the wider UCD populace when booking acts, it would nice to see variety and to the person who claimed they should book unknown indie acts, I stated up and coming acts on the music scene, who would be more than happy to build up an audience.. and provide a good gig for us, if the SU looked further afield for once.
See my last post for the issues on booking indie acts. All indie acts are a multiple of the rate a same level DJ or "cheese" act would be. It's a financial risk to try to book those kind of acts and with the SU finances as they are its a risk not worth taking.In relation to the Ball, as a matter of interest, how much did it make last year? Fair enough, you have got a few good acts in the past, but you can't bask in past glories. As another person posted, Trinity ball outperforms the UCD Ball because it is managed better. Now we have the situation on our hands that the UCD ball will now clash with the TCD Ball this year... really not a good omen
I think the ball made a loss last year, after a profit the two years before. Trinity ball outperforms as they have sold the rights to MCD so Trinity Ents have little to no say when it comes to ticket pricing and acts. That is why though the acts may be a slightly higher level, the students pay nearly double for tickets and MCD also take the profit from the bars. There is no way MCD would run the same level acts at the UCD ball as run currently and charge at the same rate. Unlike the Trinity ball the UCD ball is run for the students, not to make a profit.Instead of going on the defensive, why not actively engage with the students?
Engagement is great but students have to be coming with feasible ideas. Everything I've seen posted here really isnt.I'm hopeful if there is a bar in the new Student centre that it will be of better quality in layout and all than the current one, and perhaps when it comes along the current student bar can be transformed into a common room or something with game consoles and general chill out area, with the pool tables kept there.
The bar has a high level sound & lighting system so I doubt thats on the cards unless they're shutting the bar as a venue. I'm having trouble thinking of any venues that can hold 800 - 1000 people and also have a quality layout. The bar pretty much is a jack of all trades master of none when it comes to the bar/venue issue.0 -
I thought I saw that Aslan tickets were 15euro each? They were def giving away free ones as prizes on the UCD Ents FB page anyway... Also, a bit beside the point but Aslan would have been between 5 and 6,000 euro to book, IMO it would have been pretty obvious to Ents that they were never gonna sell enough tickets to even break even so I think that was a bit of a waste...
Obviously some people will disagree but I don't really see the point in having a constant flow of mediocre bands frequenting the Student Bar throughout the year, especially at prices similar to Aslan. Personally I'd prefer to see the Ents money spent on a smaller number of gigs, but with better bands, like LMFAO or the ones that play UCD Ball etc.
As for the indie bands, its a good idea but, like Aslan, I doubt they would generate enough interest to turn profit on a regular basis.0 -
I thought I saw that Aslan tickets were 15euro each? They were def giving away free ones as prizes on the UCD Ents FB page anyway... Also, a bit beside the point but Aslan would have been between 5 and 6,000 euro to book, IMO it would have been pretty obvious to Ents that they were never gonna sell enough tickets to even break even so I think that was a bit of a waste...
Obviously some people will disagree but I don't really see the point in having a constant flow of mediocre bands frequenting the Student Bar throughout the year, especially at prices similar to Aslan. Personally I'd prefer to see the Ents money spent on a smaller number of gigs, but with better bands, like LMFAO or the ones that play UCD Ball etc.
As for the indie bands, its a good idea but, like Aslan, I doubt they would generate enough interest to turn profit on a regular basis.
It was 6 quid into Aslan or if you paid for the Seachtain Na Gaeilge Hoodie/Wristband it was "Free" (15 quid).0 -
How so? If people dont go to the bar when all drinks are €3 why would they suddenly turn up if cans are on sale?
How do they do a better job? Do you have any idea of the events Trinity Ents actually run?
You clearly dont get my point. If you bring in an unknown indie act then the bar will again have that Aslan style turn out. If Ents has a choice to bring in a relatively well known DJ/over the hill act for € X or bring in an up and coming indie band for 6/7 times that booking fee they'll obviously take the DJ so they can charge a lower ticket price and still be more likely to break even.
I dont care if you like or hate Lacey. My issue is that you seem to have no clue how acts are booked, the risks involved in these bookings, how the bar works and the difference between how UCD and Trinty Ents are run and as a result you are making sweeping incorrect statements.
Absolute cop out. There is a huge difference between the odd €3 pint deal and selling a selection of different types of cans of beer, regularly, and on the cheap. You know there is, don't be disingenuous.
I was referring specifically to the end of year balls, as you well know I was. You either accept that the Trinity Ball has been more successful than the UCD Ball, or you are wrong. There is no other way about it.
However, if you wish to look at the SUs of both colleges and see which has performed better over the last few years, I'm sure you might find that Trinity's success (and financial prudence) is not only reflected in the end of year ball.
I think you are missing my point. Bringing in a band who are up and coming, but have a following, should not be difficult to do. Bands that attract crowds of 500 people to the academy for 15 euro would surely be able to sell out the Student Bar if they were publicised... as big acts have in the past. If this means "selling out to MCD" (or possibly privitising the office which organises events on campus *cough* in the new constitution) then so be it; it's surely better than running at a huge loss or having acts who don't actually show up when they are supposed to.
I don't care whether you care about me liking Lacey, or not. I'm talking about the job he has done for the last two years. His Sports Officer year was a failure. He put on the same events as the previous years, except he didn't publicise them as well as he could have, and thus the attendances were lower. Guiney has come in and done a better job, and more people have gotten involved with his sports days and different society astro tournaments. Again, you either accept this, or you are wrong.
As C&C Officer, he has criticised student media, both those funded by the SU and those not funded by the SU. He has also been known to sit on steps and mutter smart arse comments. If you are happy with this performance, especially from the campaigns and COMMUNICATIONS officer, then goodluck to you.0 -
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Personally I'd prefer to see the Ents money spent on a smaller number of gigs, but with better bands, like LMFAO or the ones that play UCD Ball etc.
This makes me sad... all the "bands" they get all play very pop/dance stuff. They're all just dance musicy DJ-y stuff. I went once to the bar and there was a Stone Roses tribute act, and they were AMAZING! I'm not talking up-and-coming indie bands or whatever, just a normal rock group, like even cover bands.
It'd be brilliant to see some (proper) music that isn't all chart-stuff and the stuff you hear out in the clubs in town, the same auld monotonous dribble.
If it was well advertised, it would definitely draw the crowd.
But if they say that they wouldn't do it because they wouldn't be able to afford it/draw the crowd, and they pick some pop/dance thing because it suits a wider variety of people.. even if it's true, it still damn sucks.
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beardedmaster wrote: »I went once to the bar and there was a Stone Roses tribute act, and they were AMAZING!
+ 1 - The Stone Roses Experience! They've since broken up (or whatever cover bands do!)
If I remember correctly, poster for that went up on the day :rolleyes:0 -
Just to chime in on this one, its fairly obvious that most of the posters here are into indie / rock. Nothing wrong with that, different strokes for different folks.
However, look at the economics of what you are suggesting. The vast majority of people in UCD want house, electro and charts. Thats a given. There is a reason the likes of Palace and the major clubs do so well on Thursday. Its what kids want to hear. The only indie night I know of is Propaganda on a Saturday in the Academy. I was there two weeks ago and it was no fuller than a 'meh' student bar attendance. The market just isn't there for bands in the bar. The exact same applies for 'real' electro nights such as The Kitchen on Saturdays and TP on Fridays. They have extremely low attendance. Granted they can be better nights as the people there are there for the music, just like the indie / rock nights, but from an economic point they would be hard pressed to break even. You need to appeal to the mass's.
Zoom out a fraction and see that if UCD wanted to run a specific genre night, when there clubs struggle to get attendance, it would be a loss. And the same people would chime in to hang those who spent the money. From a personal view, there is nothing worse that performing to an empty room.
You also have to factor most people just leave at 11 to go to town anyway, so there is no incentive to stay in UCD. That is the key difference between UCD and most other colleges, you could easily have bands in Trinity until 1am, then the crowd can easily walk to any club they wish. Arguing that UCD should get better acts is pointless as even the biggest night this year, LMFAO, people left at 11 to go to town anyway even though the after DJ was a world champion.
Also, the argument of selling cans or cheap drink is ridiculous. €3 drinks are not a rip off. And I'm pretty sure there is legal issues with selling cans given the measure. How many main stream bars do you know that will sell you a closed can over the counter? Very few. I'm not suggesting what Trinity are doing is illegal, but bear in mind they are a clause legally as technically there entire outside campus is a bar. People not versed in the barman side of alcohol law can make serious assumptions, most of them wrong.
Lastly, from a business perspective, students get hammered at home, give out about the door price and they buy maybe one drink for the bird they pulled. Clubs don't make a fortune. In fact they break even only when they are full. Count the number of staff in the club next time you are there, and work out how many drink specials they would have to sell to pay them. You'll quickly realise that at the end of the day its a business and business's have to make money. And there is not money in alcohol once you factor in about 60% is tax alone.
Finally, Ents this year did a fantastic job in my opinion and should be proud.0 -
Just to chime in on this one, its fairly obvious that most of the posters here are into indie / rock. Nothing wrong with that, different strokes for different folks.
However, look at the economics of what you are suggesting. The vast majority of people in UCD want house, electro and charts. Thats a given. There is a reason the likes of Palace and the major clubs do so well on Thursday. Its what kids want to hear. The only indie night I know of is Propaganda on a Saturday in the Academy. I was there two weeks ago and it was no fuller than a 'meh' student bar attendance. The market just isn't there for bands in the bar. The exact same applies for 'real' electro nights such as The Kitchen on Saturdays and TP on Fridays. They have extremely low attendance. Granted they can be better nights as the people there are there for the music, just like the indie / rock nights, but from an economic point they would be hard pressed to break even. You need to appeal to the mass's.
Zoom out a fraction and see that if UCD wanted to run a specific genre night, when there clubs struggle to get attendance, it would be a loss. And the same people would chime in to hang those who spent the money. From a personal view, there is nothing worse that performing to an empty room.
You also have to factor most people just leave at 11 to go to town anyway, so there is no incentive to stay in UCD. That is the key difference between UCD and most other colleges, you could easily have bands in Trinity until 1am, then the crowd can easily walk to any club they wish. Arguing that UCD should get better acts is pointless as even the biggest night this year, LMFAO, people left at 11 to go to town anyway even though the after DJ was a world champion.
Also, the argument of selling cans or cheap drink is ridiculous. €3 drinks are not a rip off. And I'm pretty sure there is legal issues with selling cans given the measure. How many main stream bars do you know that will sell you a closed can over the counter? Very few. I'm not suggesting what Trinity are doing is illegal, but bear in mind they are a clause legally as technically there entire outside campus is a bar. People not versed in the barman side of alcohol law can make serious assumptions, most of them wrong.
Lastly, from a business perspective, students get hammered at home, give out about the door price and they buy maybe one drink for the bird they pulled. Clubs don't make a fortune. In fact they break even only when they are full. Count the number of staff in the club next time you are there, and work out how many drink specials they would have to sell to pay them. You'll quickly realise that at the end of the day its a business and business's have to make money. And there is not money in alcohol once you factor in about 60% is tax alone.
Finally, Ents this year did a fantastic job in my opinion and should be proud.
I, for one, am not talking about a regular (weekly say) indie night. However, a well publicised once a month/6 weeks type job would be economical.
Why don't we take Wednesday or Fridays as the sampe nights? Workmans and Whelans do very well. I don't think that people go to other clubs for the music, but more for the fact that you need to be barely able to stand up to enjoy D2/XXI/Coppers etc.
I've also been to Propaganda a few nights and its been busy. I guess both of us are generalising specific cases there.
3€ pints of Fosters could be bettered. I know two local GAA club bars that are able to sell fosters and olm cheaper than that. If they are going to sell awful tasting beer, they may as well make it as cheap as humanly possible. Leisureplex Stillorgan allows patrons to bring in as much drink as they can carry on a Friday night with a ten euro admission and free entry to a club afterwards. How come the bar committee can't think outside the box?
"Clubs don't make a fortune. In fact they break even only when they are full." I think you are generalising once more.
You are entitled to your opinion. You obviously attended LMFAO and thought it was enjoyable. I don't like that sort of music and therefore, I don't think two acts pulling out at the last minute is a good performance for the year overall. Different strokes for different folks I guess.0 -
Oasis_Dublin wrote: »Absolute cop out. There is a huge difference between the odd €3 pint deal and selling a selection of different types of cans of beer, regularly, and on the cheap. You know there is, don't be disingenuous.
No there isn't a huge difference. Those nights had all drinks €3 which should attract a larger market than those that drink cans but yet they did not produce a decent crowd. I understand €3 drinks are not the same as cans but it shows how dropping the price of drink to a low level does not lead to a massive increase in attendance. How cheap are you planning on selling these cans and more importantly how do you think they will have a greater effect on crowd numbers than €3 drinks?I was referring specifically to the end of year balls, as you well know I was. You either accept that the Trinity Ball has been more successful than the UCD Ball, or you are wrong. There is no other way about it.
It really depends what you deem as a success. If you're looking at it purely from a profit perspective then yes the Trinity Ball is much more successful. Unlike the UCD Ball MCD (note MCD not Trinity Ents) run the Trinity Ball solely to make a profit, ie to bleed as much money as possible out of the students. Do you think that the difference in the near double price tickets is all funneled into the acts?However, if you wish to look at the SUs of both colleges and see which has performed better over the last few years, I'm sure you might find that Trinity's success (and financial prudence) is not only reflected in the end of year ball.
I think you are missing my point. Bringing in a band who are up and coming, but have a following, should not be difficult to do. Bands that attract crowds of 500 people to the academy for 15 euro would surely be able to sell out the Student Bar if they were publicised... as big acts have in the past. If this means "selling out to MCD" (or possibly privitising the office which organises events on campus *cough* in the new constitution) then so be it; it's surely better than running at a huge loss or having acts who don't actually show up when they are supposed to.
Do you think the 500 people who go to the academy to see these up and coming acts all go to UCD? If there isnt the level of interest in the greater Dublin/Leinster area for the act to sell out a venue bigger than 500 people then there simply isnt the scale of interest in UCD to sell these type of gigs. If MCD or any other company took over Ents they would not be interested in bringing that type of act to the bar as it isnt economically viable.I don't care whether you care about me liking Lacey, or not. I'm talking about the job he has done for the last two years. His Sports Officer year was a failure. He put on the same events as the previous years, except he didn't publicise them as well as he could have, and thus the attendances were lower. Guiney has come in and done a better job, and more people have gotten involved with his sports days and different society astro tournaments. Again, you either accept this, or you are wrong.
As C&C Officer, he has criticised student media, both those funded by the SU and those not funded by the SU. He has also been known to sit on steps and mutter smart arse comments. If you are happy with this performance, especially from the campaigns and COMMUNICATIONS officer, then goodluck to you.
As per my last response I have no interest in debating your opinion of Lacey or his performance and even if I did it would be off topic for thread anyway.0 -
No there isn't a huge difference. Those nights had all drinks €3 which should attract a larger market than those that drink cans but yet they did not produce a decent crowd. I understand €3 drinks are not the same as cans but it shows how dropping the price of drink to a low level does not lead to a massive increase in attendance. How cheap are you planning on selling these cans and more importantly how do you think they will have a greater effect on crowd numbers than €3 drinks?
It really depends what you deem as a success. If you're looking at it purely from a profit perspective then yes the Trinity Ball is much more successful. Unlike the UCD Ball MCD (note MCD not Trinity Ents) run the Trinity Ball solely to make a profit, ie to bleed as much money as possible out of the students. Do you think that the difference in the near double price tickets is all funneled into the acts?
Do you think the 500 people who go to the academy to see these up and coming acts all go to UCD? If there isnt the level of interest in the greater Dublin/Leinster area for the act to sell out a venue bigger than 500 people then there simply isnt the scale of interest in UCD to sell these type of gigs. If MCD or any other company took over Ents they would not be interested in bringing that type of act to the bar as it isnt economically viable.
As per my last response I have no interest in debating your opinion of Lacey or his performance and even if I did it would be off topic for thread anyway.
It wasn't €3 all drinks, or at least not on the nights I was down. It was Fosters €3, Perlenbacher (or some other such strong lager) €4, mickey fins shots for €3 and then everything else was priced the same. Only that we had society tokens made it worthwhile. But hey, we thought it worthwhile to give them some business.
UCD Ball didn't sell out last year, did it? I certainly can't find any info on it online. Trinity Ball did, despite the fact that tickets cost twice as much. I wonder why that was... If you can claim that people don't want indie acts, and that it's a band investment for Ents to book them, then surely you can accept that Trinity Ents are more successful in that they sell out their end of year ball. In fact, they had over 6,000 applications for tickets last year (apparently!). While Trinity Ents bleeds their students dry (absolute nonsense by the way, see econ10010), UCD Ents fails to organise the event properly, plea for support from people and then don't sell out the subsequent event. But hey, at least they aren't a million quid in debt.
See the Trinity Ball line-up here. It is certainly far better than the UCD Ball 2011, with a few different genres.
No, hence publicise it properly. I'm sure out of the 6,500 living on campus, 200-300 might attend an indie event every 6-8 weeks.
I wouldn't try to defend my mate if he was that bad at his job either, don't worry about it.0 -
Oasis_Dublin wrote: »It wasn't €3 all drinks, or at least not on the nights I was down. It was Fosters €3, Perlenbacher (or some other such strong lager) €4, mickey fins shots for €3 and then everything else was priced the same. Only that we had society tokens made it worthwhile. But hey, we thought it worthwhile to give them some business.
You've ignored my questions on what price you'd sell the cans and how you expect selling cans to do any better than drinks €3 drinks promos?UCD Ball didn't sell out last year, did it? I certainly can't find any info on it online. Trinity Ball did, despite the fact that tickets cost twice as much. I wonder why that was... If you can claim that people don't want indie acts, and that it's a band investment for Ents to book them, then surely you can accept that Trinity Ents are more successful in that they sell out their end of year ball. In fact, they had over 6,000 applications for tickets last year (apparently!). While Trinity Ents bleeds their students dry (absolute nonsense by the way, see econ10010), UCD Ents fails to organise the event properly, plea for support from people and then don't sell out the subsequent event. But hey, at least they aren't a million quid in debt.
See the Trinity Ball line-up here. It is certainly far better than the UCD Ball 2011, with a few different genres.
Last year was an anomaly due to all the mess up in both the original act release and date change. The UCD ball has pretty much sold out year on year since its resurrection. I dont know why you keep stating Trinity Ents when you're talking about the Trinity ball as they have nothing to do with it.No, hence publicise it properly. I'm sure out of the 6,500 living on campus, 200-300 might attend an indie event every 6-8 weeks.
I think you are delusional about UCD students interest level in up and coming indie acts. Even if you could get that kind of numbers can you give me your estimate on what you think putting on a gig like that would cost and at what level you would set tickets at?I wouldn't try to defend my mate if he was that bad at his job either, don't worry about it.
Thanks, thats good to know. :rolleyes:0 -
You've ignored my questions on what price you'd sell the cans and how you expect selling cans to do any better than drinks €3 drinks promos?
I only ignored it because you were not telling the truth. If they had ALL drink at €3, you might have a case. €3 for Fosters is not offering students choice. I suggested, on another post in this thread, having a night similar to Leisureplex whereby you pay entry and bring your own drink. Or, you could do nothing, and bemoan the fact that students don't want to pay, and see the bar fall into further debt (well, assumed debt, the Student Union bar hasn't actually published accounts for the last 7 years).Last year was an anomaly due to all the mess up in both the original act release and date change. The UCD ball has pretty much sold out year on year since its resurrection. I dont know why you keep stating Trinity Ents when you're talking about the Trinity ball as they have nothing to do with it.
Fair enough. MCD presumably also incurs whatever loses the Trinity Ball makes though. Again, if you wish to claim that Trinity Ents have sold their students out and claim that UCD Ents is the way to go then you will have to explain why the Trinity Ball has sold out for the last number of years, while the UCD Ball hasn't sold out since 2009, when it's capacity was 4,999. You will also have to explain why students have to subsidise this loss at the expense of other services.
I think that this is a positive point of out this new constitution, privatising Ents.I think you are delusional about UCD students interest level in up and coming indie acts. Even if you could get that kind of numbers can you give me your estimate on what you think putting on a gig like that would cost and at what level you would set tickets at?
Well I don't think either of us can prove the other one wrong in this regard. Your argument that x sells out on a Thursday was met by my reply that Workmans (recently expanded), Propaganda, The Village (recently expanded) and Whelans do fine for themselves. And before you say that students want pop music only, two events have been cancelled already this year due to acts not showing up.
Perhaps Cosgrove's and Darcy's connection to the same nightclub promotions group could be examined.Thanks, thats good to know. :rolleyes:
You're very much welcome, don't worry about it Mr. Hack (Y)0 -
Oasis_Dublin wrote: »I only ignored it because you were not telling the truth. If they had ALL drink at €3, you might have a case. €3 for Fosters is not offering students choice. I suggested, on another post in this thread, having a night similar to Leisureplex whereby you pay entry and bring your own drink. Or, you could do nothing, and bemoan the fact that students don't want to pay, and see the bar fall into further debt (well, assumed debt, the Student Union bar hasn't actually published accounts for the last 7 years).
You still haven't answered how selling cans will do better than selling pints for €3 or how much you'd charge for cans. I've got many a facebook event invite stating €3 drinks in the bar but I'll take your word that its only fosters. If they ever did bring in selling cans at the bar they aren't going to have a brand or two so would you bemoan that a well as they're not offering "choice"? BYOB in the would never be allowed to happen. Even if it was do you honestly think Students would pay an entry fee into the bar to predrink their own cans before heading into town?
I have no problem with new ideas but they need to be economical and practical which is the problem with what you've been putting forward.Fair enough. MCD presumably also incurs whatever loses the Trinity Ball makes though. Again, if you wish to claim that Trinity Ents have sold their students out and claim that UCD Ents is the way to go then you will have to explain why the Trinity Ball has sold out for the last number of years, while the UCD Ball hasn't sold out since 2009, when it's capacity was 4,999. You will also have to explain why students have to subsidise this loss at the expense of other services.
Trinity ball doesnt make a loss as it is a long running prestigious event so they have no real risk. I never made the claim they sold out. They have however no control over their ball when it comes to acts or ticket prices. The UCD Ball sold out in 2010 as well. You have already said that you do not want ticket prices to be raised to Trinity levels but still criticize the caliber of act and the fact it isnt making a profit. If you want those things the students have to pay.I think that this is a positive point of out this new constitution, privatising Ents.
It depends on how it is managed by the SU but it could be a good move.Well I don't think either of us can prove the other one wrong in this regard. Your argument that x sells out on a Thursday was met by my reply that Workmans (recently expanded), Propaganda, The Village (recently expanded) and Whelans do fine for themselves. And before you say that students want pop music only, two events have been cancelled already this year due to acts not showing up.
You've named 4 venues, now compare that to the rest of the places playing mainstream music in town and you'll see what a small market it is (I'd actually question some of those 4 as well).
You have also ignored me asking you to do me a quick budget on how you are going to manage to make a profit from an up and coming indie act in the bar with 200 - 300 people attending.Perhaps Cosgrove's and Darcy's connection to the same nightclub promotions group could be examined.
Since student night club promoters became the norm every ents and club event orientated society auditor has had their connections and has made a fortune from it. I dont know how you can examine it though.You're very much welcome, don't worry about it Mr. Hack (Y)
:rolleyes:0 -
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The bar needs a huge make over, it's pretty horrible place to sit in and have a few beers. Obviously that's not going to happen now though. also Trinity is €8 for 4 cans isnt it? So eight cans for €16 vs 8 pints for €24 is quite a big difference. Also people generally want value for money, that doesn't mean it has to be cheap. If you ask most people which is better value for money then nearly everyone would agree that the Trinity ball is.0
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