UCD Ents and Student Bar

HavingCrack

Foxtrol wrote: »

Since student night club promoters became the norm every ents and club event orientated society auditor has had their connections and has made a fortune from it. I dont know how you can examine it though.

I always thought the student nights in nightclubs a little bit sad for student life. The vast majority of nights out in college just consist of pre drinking and then going to D2 or Coppers or (insert X nightclub) in town.

Student's just don't seem as interested in pubs (even cheap ones) or even house parties anymore. Everything just revolves around these run of the mill nightclubs.

Fair enough, it's clearly what the majority want these days but I've really grown tired of it .

Oasis_Dublin

Foxtrol wrote: »

You still haven't answered how selling cans will do better than selling pints for €3 or how much you'd charge for cans. I've got many a facebook event invite stating €3 drinks in the bar but I'll take your word that its only fosters. If they ever did bring in selling cans at the bar they aren't going to have a brand or two so would you bemoan that a well as they're not offering "choice"? BYOB in the would never be allowed to happen. Even if it was do you honestly think Students would pay an entry fee into the bar to predrink their own cans before heading into town?

I have no problem with new ideas but they need to be economical and practical which is the problem with what you've been putting forward.

Yes I have. No one wants Fosters. Especially if you can get it cheaper elsewhere. God be with the days of Fosters dollars!

Make the SU bar into the nightclub. They have a few late licences every semster, make use of them. Then charge an entry fee. Instead of charging people a huge amount to go see S Club 2, and then charging them an arm and a leg for drinks as well.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Trinity ball doesnt make a loss as it is a long running prestigious event so they have no real risk. I never made the claim they sold out. They have however no control over their ball when it comes to acts or ticket prices. The UCD Ball sold out in 2010 as well. You have already said that you do not want ticket prices to be raised to Trinity levels but still criticize the caliber of act and the fact it isnt making a profit. If you want those things the students have to pay.

They don't control acts or ticket prices but their line up is better. All UCD students paid for the ball last year, and yet the Ents Officer still took home his pay cheque, because it didn't sell out. Did it sell out in 2010? I can't find anything online, other than Jedward pulling out.

I never said I wouldn't pay more for good acts :-/

It depends on how it is managed by the SU but it could be a good move.[/QUOTE]

Hopefully it does

Foxtrol wrote: »

You've named 4 venues, now compare that to the rest of the places playing mainstream music in town and you'll see what a small market it is (I'd actually question some of those 4 as well).

Two have expanded in the last year! Whelans is an institution, in and of itself. Pubs in Dublin aren't playing pop/dance music. You seem to think it's in the majority of clubs/pubs but you are wrong. The fact that you actually attended LMFAO only confirms your bias. Go to clubs other than D2/XXI or pubs other than that UCD Student Bar and you will see how enjoyable Dublin can actually be at night.

You have also ignored me asking you to do me a quick budget on how you are going to manage to make a profit from an up and coming indie act in the bar with 200 - 300 people attending.[/QUOTE]

Charge 15-20 for a decent act. I'd gladly pay it for a good act, as a once off. Again, publicise it, and it will do ok. It's worth a shot at least. It can hardly get any worse than 50 people going to Aslan or acts cancelling left, right, and sometimes even centre.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Since student night club promoters became the norm every ents and club event orientated society auditor has had their connections and has made a fortune from it. I dont know how you can examine it though.

Well I more meant that it is highly questionable. This year's Ents officer has made his connections despite a relatively poor year. Hence, privatising it is the best option.

Foxtrol wrote: »

:rolleyes:

:eek:

honru

There was one night last year in the student bar where an up and coming rock/pop band played the student bar prior to a DJ act and got little to no attention from what I saw. The DJ act pulled a far bigger crowd. Now this band wasn't my cup of tea but it did give a bleak indication as to the general interest in live rock/pop/indie bands out there making a name for themselves. The student bar is not competitive enough in general though... cheapest option being €4.50 for a pint of Fosters.

Swirly Whirly

I'm 4 years in UCD and I don't ever remember the SU being useful apart from free pens at exams.

ironclaw

Two have expanded in the last year! Whelans is an institution, in and of itself. Pubs in Dublin aren't playing pop/dance music. You seem to think it's in the majority of clubs/pubs but you are wrong. The fact that you actually attended LMFAO only confirms your bias. Go to clubs other than D2/XXI or pubs other than that UCD Student Bar and you will see how enjoyable Dublin can actually be at night.

I'm sorry but you are wrong on that score. Pubs in Dublin do play pop/charts. Its a little more general stuff but its still close to a nightclub standard. Take Fitzsimmons (Templebar), was there on Saturday night last, downstairs was a decent soloist and upstairs was club music. Upstairs was jammers to the point where it was very hard to move. Downstairs was much more open, and a MUCH older crowd. The average age was definitely 25+. Upstairs, much closer to the student age bracket. Taking Doyles on a Friday, again upstairs is the slightly more club feel. Granted its not electro, but its certainly more upbeat.

While I appreciate the pubs do have a much more trad feel to them, I can tell you from personal experience, pubs are not making money these days from events. The only pubs making money are those doing food or that have a nightclub. Thats a countrywide scenario. I don't have it to hand, but I think something like 10 pubs A WEEK closed down in 2011. Also Templebar is not a fair example as you have the tourist trade, which heavily relays on the diddly iddly Irish stuff.

You have also ignored me asking you to do me a quick budget on how you are going to manage to make a profit from an up and coming indie act in the bar with 200 - 300 people attending.

300 * €20 = €6000 on sales alone. Provided you got 300, which you won't.

So even at max capacity, you'd probably just cover the band and staff. Take 15 staff on €100 a night (At a complete guess by the way) plus overheads such as rigging and lighting. Your chewing into your profit margin.

Take the €3 drink offer, say your making €1 on each one (Yes, something like 70% plus is tax and then the cost of the drink itself). The bar man needs to sell 100 to pay his own wage. So if you had 15 staff, perhaps only 8 of which are serving, you quickly see they need to sell a lot of drink (To perhaps an empty venue) to just pay themselves. You need to totally adjust your thinking to the other side of the bar.

The most obvious reflection that indie / rock does not go down well in UCD was the recent Aslan gig. Very decent act, well publised and considering people could get in FOR FREE with a hoodie, only something like 50 were there (I wasn't so I can't comment for sure) Flip this over and look at the likes of Daft Funk, Da Mau5 etc, easily four times the attendance and nearly every times it been free in.

It pains me to mention it, but DJ Rankin played to a full house and Aslan didn't. Fairly stark point to be made.

honru wrote: »

The student bar is not competitive enough in general though... cheapest option being €4.50 for a pint of Fosters.

Can I ask what people are comparing a €3 pint to? You cannot compare drink bought in an off license to that at a bar. You just can't. Thats like giving out to the Grind for having a sandwich at €3.50 when you could make the same sandwich for probably €1.50 at most at home. You pay for the convenience and the business. Boiling it down further, your keeping someone in a job.

O'Briens etc have massive buying power and as such can offer drink at a vastly lower price that any pub could ever match. I've seen the figures, it just cannot be done. And what that does is keeps drink prices 'high' in the eyes of students, who in turn don't buy it, and this feeds the circle.

The argument could be made that people would pay for a more high end experience or a nicer venue, but again from experience thats rubbish. People complain about €5 entry, let alone €10/15.

People want a cheap night and to get trashed.End of story.

Chucky the tree

aslan a very decent act? :pac:

HavingCrack

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are wrong on that score. Pubs in Dublin do play pop/charts. Its a little more general stuff but its still close to a nightclub standard. Take Fitzsimmons (Templebar), was there on Saturday night last, downstairs was a decent soloist and upstairs was club music. Upstairs was jammers to the point where it was very hard to move. Downstairs was much more open, and a MUCH older crowd. The average age was definitely 25+. Upstairs, much closer to the student age bracket. Taking Doyles on a Friday, again upstairs is the slightly more club feel. Granted its not electro, but its certainly more upbeat.

While I appreciate the pubs do have a much more trad feel to them, I can tell you from personal experience, pubs are not making money these days from events. The only pubs making money are those doing food or that have a nightclub. Thats a countrywide scenario. I don't have it to hand, but I think something like 10 pubs A WEEK closed down in 2011. Also Templebar is not a fair example as you have the tourist trade, which heavily relays on the diddly iddly Irish stuff.



300 * €20 = €6000 on sales alone. Provided you got 300, which you won't.

So even at max capacity, you'd probably just cover the band and staff. Take 15 staff on €100 a night (At a complete guess by the way) plus overheads such as rigging and lighting. Your chewing into your profit margin.

Take the €3 drink offer, say your making €1 on each one (Yes, something like 70% plus is tax and then the cost of the drink itself). The bar man needs to sell 100 to pay his own wage. So if you had 15 staff, perhaps only 8 of which are serving, you quickly see they need to sell a lot of drink (To perhaps an empty venue) to just pay themselves. You need to totally adjust your thinking to the other side of the bar.

The most obvious reflection that indie / rock does not go down well in UCD was the recent Aslan gig. Very decent act, well publised and considering people could get in FOR FREE with a hoodie, only something like 50 were there (I wasn't so I can't comment for sure) Flip this over and look at the likes of Daft Funk, Da Mau5 etc, easily four times the attendance and nearly every times it been free in.

It pains me to mention it, but DJ Rankin played to a full house and Aslan didn't. Fairly stark point to be made.



Can I ask what people are comparing a €3 pint to? You cannot compare drink bought in an off license to that at a bar. You just can't. Thats like giving out to the Grind for having a sandwich at €3.50 when you could make the same sandwich for probably €1.50 at most at home. You pay for the convenience and the business. Boiling it down further, your keeping someone in a job.

O'Briens etc have massive buying power and as such can offer drink at a vastly lower price that any pub could ever match. I've seen the figures, it just cannot be done. And what that does is keeps drink prices 'high' in the eyes of students, who in turn don't buy it, and this feeds the circle.

The argument could be made that people would pay for a more high end experience or a nicer venue, but again from experience thats rubbish. People complain about €5 entry, let alone €10/15.

People want a cheap night and to get trashed.End of story.

All sadly true .

Oasis_Dublin

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are wrong on that score. Pubs in Dublin do play pop/charts. Its a little more general stuff but its still close to a nightclub standard. Take Fitzsimmons (Templebar), was there on Saturday night last, downstairs was a decent soloist and upstairs was club music. Upstairs was jammers to the point where it was very hard to move. Downstairs was much more open, and a MUCH older crowd. The average age was definitely 25+. Upstairs, much closer to the student age bracket. Taking Doyles on a Friday, again upstairs is the slightly more club feel. Granted its not electro, but its certainly more upbeat.

I really don't think that people go to Coppers or Fitzsimmons for the music. If Coppers started playing popular rock music, I really couldn't see it suddenly closing down. People go to Coppers for the ride, let's face it.

People seem to be ignoring Whelans/Grand Social/Workmans. Crawdaddy has moved away from the indie rock club it was three years. Tripod launched a weird 90s/hip hop night. Both closed down over the weekend. What it becomes is still yet to be seen

ironclaw wrote: »

While I appreciate the pubs do have a much more trad feel to them, I can tell you from personal experience, pubs are not making money these days from events. The only pubs making money are those doing food or that have a nightclub. Thats a countrywide scenario. I don't have it to hand, but I think something like 10 pubs A WEEK closed down in 2011. Also Templebar is not a fair example as you have the tourist trade, which heavily relays on the diddly iddly Irish stuff.

The majority of pubs in town aren't playing LMFAO or Katy Perry, let's be honest. None of the urban pubs do either, except the likes of McGowans (failing).

ironclaw wrote: »

300 * €20 = €6000 on sales alone. Provided you got 300, which you won't.

So even at max capacity, you'd probably just cover the band and staff. Take 15 staff on €100 a night (At a complete guess by the way) plus overheads such as rigging and lighting. Your chewing into your profit margin.

Take the €3 drink offer, say your making €1 on each one (Yes, something like 70% plus is tax and then the cost of the drink itself). The bar man needs to sell 100 to pay his own wage. So if you had 15 staff, perhaps only 8 of which are serving, you quickly see they need to sell a lot of drink (To perhaps an empty venue) to just pay themselves. You need to totally adjust your thinking to the other side of the bar.

The most obvious reflection that indie / rock does not go down well in UCD was the recent Aslan gig. Very decent act, well publised and considering people could get in FOR FREE with a hoodie, only something like 50 were there (I wasn't so I can't comment for sure) Flip this over and look at the likes of Daft Funk, Da Mau5 etc, easily four times the attendance and nearly every times it been free in.

It pains me to mention it, but DJ Rankin played to a full house and Aslan didn't. Fairly stark point to be made.

15 staff... in the UCD student bar?! Are you for real? I was there at the 2010 XMas Ball, which sold out, and there weren't 15 staff on. There was a maximum of 4 behind the bar, that again collecting glasses and two bounces on the door.

They have to pay for the electricity, granted, but they own a newish PA system as far as I'm aware; they don't rent it out each night.

70% of the cost of beer might be tax (which is not true anyway) but then they haven't published accounts in seven years. So I'd highly doubt that the accounts are up to scratch. The bar might be in trouble when they all come out.

Students have had less money year on year, so comparing this year to previous years is a bit unfair. Aslan are absolutely not the sort of rock/indie/alternative band I'm talking about!

ironclaw wrote: »

Can I ask what people are comparing a €3 pint to?

OLM, 2.50€ a pint in Kilmacud Crokes Stillorgan, or 5 for a tenner. Fosters 2.50€ a pint in Naomh Olaf Sandyford.

Or bowling/pool/club entry and the permission to drink cans in Leisureplex Stillorgan for a tenner. Charge people a fiver into the Student Bar and let them bring cans. It would do well.

ironclaw wrote: »

People want a cheap night and to get trashed.End of story.

True. But then charging 40 euro for the UCD Ball proves that they will pay for rare events if they feel it is worth it.

WoollyRedHat

The truth is UCD Ents have no imagination and no vision... the people who run it are a "steady as she goes" group, who don't seem to be bringing much to the table. I don't think Lacey and Co. are bothered engaging in discussion and I do think some ideas are being suggested here that are worth considering. My post was gleaned over by our communications officer and all he could do was defend Ents and be offended rather than actually admit the flaws of it... typical.

And all this, oh the Ents play it safe but do it well, you can't really say this considering the unreliablity of some of the acts they do tend to book, who end up pulling a no-show... not very great really. Keep the acts they do book, but you know, now and then maybe something a little different, change is good, embrace change!....
If the bar came up with something that it could be good at and provide a USP it could be better, but at the moment it offers very little, that's the crux of the issue.

Look, I realise there is merit in the fact that some may have issues selling, but how can you know that for sure... when Ents has never bothered to dip into the basket of other acts that are not of the LMFAO/ dance variety.
What about Jape, what about Fight like Apes, General Fiasco, what about Irish bands, with maybe a support one as well. **** it, even if they have to have a dj set afterwards to brign a crowd and whatever, who cares, it would still be nice to see something different.
Perhaps if we hosted new bands trying to make a name we could still provide good, quality music while saving money in the process.

Surely most reasonable people accept that the bar could be way better, and for the most part, our Union is not fit to see that through. Of course, I will eat humble pie if I am proven wrong... but it is in the interest of the students and the Union to have a good bar.

And who said it had to be all about the music, like people have suggested try some other events, use the imagination, what about some actual quality comedy acts... as someone has mentioned, people are willing to splash out on occasion when something decent comes along and they see it worth saving for. On top of this, maybe if Ents marketed their events a little bit better then the event itself would do better.

I would be willing to pay more for the UCD Ball if it provided better acts... and it should be concerned with making money, so if it made a loss last time round, then the SU need to think of what they are going to do to improve it, rather than losing more money.

Fosters is the only drink on a normal night that is a decent price, €3, but unforunately for us, Fosters is ****, I'd rather have Tuborg...
There are plenty of places which sell drink cheaper than UCD.

WoollyRedHat

Foxtrol wrote: »

As per my last response why do you believe people will turn up if cans are sold when they aren't when there are €3 drinks promotions?



Firstly you're comparing apples with oranges when it comes to the examples you're using. Back in the days when the bar was thriving it was pre semesterisation and pre the days of large scale student nightclub promoters. Both of these have had a massive negative effect on the Bar and Ents. Back in those days a €3 night was unheard of in it or any club in Dublin. Now they're competing with clubs doing promotions for €2 and less so its impossible for them to lower their prices to the same level with their footfall (thats ignoring the uproar from UCD admin if prices were lowered to that rate). Also, when you try to compare it with Trinity & UCG you have to take into account the logistical nightmare it is for people to get to UCD for "predrinks" for an hour or two only to head into town.

Maybe semesterisation hasn't helped but you can't blame it outright. And I don't get where you're coming from with this whole club thing, at no point did I suggest that UCD compete with clubs nor do I envisage it being the place to do so. Logistical nightmare? I think you are being a bit dramatic, there are buses that leave the UCD stop which is only about 5 mins away from the bar into town up until 11:45 or thereabouts. The Trinity bar closes at 11 usually ( before they head on to where-ever). It's not that much of a major convenience. If the place selt cans for around 2 euro I would be much more inclined to go there and then head into town, if I so wished, if on that particular night I was planning to head onto a club afterwards. As well as this a taxi from UCD to town with mates would be quite cheap, in comparision to single bus fare, provided there's enough of ya's... 4 peeps about 4 euro each. Logistical nightmare? There is transport. On the other side, if there was a gig played in UCD, again not every week, don't envisage this, once again , not a club, it's up to people whether they want to stay or go into town afterwards.

See my last post for the issues on booking indie acts. All indie acts are a multiple of the rate a same level DJ or "cheese" act would be. It's a financial risk to try to book those kind of acts and with the SU finances as they are its a risk not worth taking.

Really? A more popular indie act will obviously be more expensive, an indie act that are trying to make their name but still good could be gotten for cheaper.. as a means to gain more fans surely.

I think the ball made a loss last year, after a profit the two years before. Trinity ball outperforms as they have sold the rights to MCD so Trinity Ents have little to no say when it comes to ticket pricing and acts. That is why though the acts may be a slightly higher level, the students pay nearly double for tickets and MCD also take the profit from the bars. There is no way MCD would run the same level acts at the UCD ball as run currently and charge at the same rate. Unlike the Trinity ball the UCD ball is run for the students, not to make a profit.

We can't afford for the Ball to be making a loss, when the SU are €1 million in debt, I disagree with this tbh, it can be run for the students while at the same time making money. Students go to bigger, more expensive festivals and concerts bear in mind.

Engagement is great but students have to be coming with feasible ideas. Everything I've seen posted here really isnt.

Would you not see the SU and proprietors coming together and working towards a solution to better the bar for all involved would not be a feasible idea... I think there have been some good ideas personally. Engagement on a greater scale should involve ENTS and them actively engaging with students to see what they would like in the bar as well surely... brainstorming together is always better than allowing a select few decide things, especially when it is very one-minded.

The bar has a high level sound & lighting system so I doubt thats on the cards unless they're shutting the bar as a venue. I'm having trouble thinking of any venues that can hold 800 - 1000 people and also have a quality layout. The bar pretty much is a jack of all trades master of none when it comes to the bar/venue issue.

I don't think it is impossible to get somewhere which can hold a good number of people and still have a sensible and attractive design, just invest in a good architect who knows what he is doing, although I do admit that can be rather difficult going by some of the sorry excuses of buildings that have cropped up from the CT era.

I might not be the end of the world to see ENTS privatised, maybe then we can see positive developments and willingness to adapt.