Hyperactivity and High Protein

meoklmrk91

My 17 month old Boxer seems to be going backwards instead of forwards, he is hyper all the time everything that I or anyone else does drives him crazy and no matter how much I train, he knows the commands or exercise he does not stop. I am at a loss at this stage.

I was recently told by a vet about a correlation between high protein and hyperactivity, the vet said that I should consider changing foods and in particular recommended Burns as it is high quality and generally low protein. He is currently on Arden Grange which consists of 25% protein and the Burns which I am considering switching to is 18.5% protein.

Zapperzy

Nothing much to add except that I have never met a calm boxer, they all seem to be wired to the moon regardless of age.

Shanao

Protein is not what makes a dog hyper, fat content, colourings, additives and low grade proteins that are hard to digest are what make dogs hyper. For some reason behaviourists and vets have gotten it into their heads that protein causes hyperactivity after a study was conducted on RATS!! Omnivores, who will of course show adverse reactions if given high levels of protein. If protein levels really affected dogs hyperactivity, then surely all raw feeders dogs would be bouncing off the walls? And 18% seems way too low protein for a boxer. Honestly I would put it down to your boxer being well, a boxer. They are a hyperactive breed when they're young anyway.

Also, any chance said vet sells Burns?

meoklmrk91

Shanao wrote: »

Protein is not what makes a dog hyper, fat content, colourings, additives and low grade proteins that are hard to digest are what make dogs hyper. For some reason behaviourists and vets have gotten it into their heads that protein causes hyperactivity after a study was conducted on RATS!! Omnivores, who will of course show adverse reactions if given high levels of protein. If protein levels really affected dogs hyperactivity, then surely all raw feeders dogs would be bouncing off the walls? And 18% seems way too low protein for a boxer. Honestly I would put it down to your boxer being well, a boxer. They are a hyperactive breed when they're young anyway.

Also, any chance said vet sells Burns?

I did a bit of research myself and yes I know the study was done on rats. The vet in question is my teacher I am studying vet nursing, she uses burns for her own dogs which is why she recommended it.

But the thing is there is being a boxer and then there is out of control and he is falling into the latter category and I am getting to the point where I am willing to try anything.

Millem

One of my dogs went to the behavourist in dog training Ireland and the first thing she did was to recommend that was 18% protein, she said it should calm her down the only two I could find were burns and luath. So I switched to burns as it is more widely available. She did mention studies!

Cherry Blossom

I have a Westie and she was literally bouncing off the walls on RC, a bit less on Hills, a bit less again on Arden Grange and went completely mental when I tried her on raw. She was extremely calm on Burn & Wainrights but I have found the right balance of 'spark' on Barking Heads which is 22%. If someone wants to do some sort of nutritional analysis I can post the exact foods (different meat sources tried) Anything chicken I learned pretty quickly was a no go area for my dog, other than that the obvious difference in the foods was the protein percentages, if anyone sees something else there that I didn't please point it out to me.

sassychick

I too have a boxer like yours she was hyper..completly mad i got in touch with a pet behaviorist who did reccomend burns..i gave it a go and well what can i say the difference is amazing..she is a much more chilled out dog:) good luck with it and let us know how you go

Shanao

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I have a Westie and she was literally bouncing off the walls on RC, a bit less on Hills, a bit less again on Arden Grange and went completely mental when I tried her on raw. She was extremely calm on Burn & Wainrights but I have found the right balance of 'spark' on Barking Heads which is 22%. If someone wants to do some sort of nutritional analysis I can post the exact foods (different meat sources tried) Anything chicken I learned pretty quickly was a no go area for my dog, other than that the obvious difference in the foods was the protein percentages, if anyone sees something else there that I didn't please point it out to me.

I would attribute that more to the digestibility of the proteins in it. RC for example uses a lot of 'animal proteins' in their foods, which could be just about anything. Any of their food with pork proteins makes my guy break out. On top of that, both RC and Hills have a lot of fillers and I've noticed Hills are using Soyameal recently, which is a really low grade filler. The better quality foods like Barking Heads (which is grain free from what I remember? Correct me if I'm wrong) have proteins that are much easier to digest and they have far less additives. And they dont use preservatives like BHA which some other do, which has been shown to cause hyperactivity and is a known carcinogen. I currently have my own dogs on a 30% protein diet with raw meat added now and again and have noticed absolutely no difference in their energy levels from when they were on 22% protein.

Shanao

Ingredients of Burns:
Brown Rice (Min 63%), Chicken Meal (Min 20%), Oats, Peas, Chicken Oil, Sunflower Oil, Seaweed, Minerals & Vitamins

Ingredients of Arden Grange:
Chicken Meal* (min 27%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Even though Burns has less meat than the arden grange, I would be willing to bet its far more digestible for protein sensitive dogs. On top of that, it has absolutely no maize/corn in it, which of course some dogs cant digest properly.

But anyway, my original point remains, 18% seems too low to me for a young dog who is technically still growing until two, if not two and a half. A lot of people are having problems with keeping weight on their dogs when they have them on burns due to the low protein and fat content so i would be wary of that as well unless he is overweight.

Cherry Blossom

'Food' for thought

Shanao - It isn't grain free, same grains at the other foods I've used (-rice,oats)

Leaving out the the RC (puppy food and chicken based) and the Hills (Med breed Lamb & Rice - ingredient list was different at the time. These are the ones I used - in order

Burns High Energy Lamb - Lamb Meal (Min 32%), Brown Rice, White Rice, Sunflower Oil, Oats, Peas, Beet Pulp, Seaweed, Minerals & Vitamins
Protein 24%, Oil 15%

- caused constipation, she was on it for 2 months

Burns Lamb & Brown Rice - Brown Rice (Min 54%), Lamb Meal (Min 21%), Oats, Peas, Sunflower Oil, Seaweed, Minerals & Vitamins
Protein 18.5%, Oil 7.5%

Raw diet - two weeks on lamb ribs, beef, hearts, pureed peas and carrots - welcome back crazy hyper dog

James Wellbeloved Duck & Rice - rice (27%), duck meal (27%), oats, whole linseed, duck gravy, duck fat, alfalfa meal, chicory pulp, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, omega oil supplement, potassium chloride, chicory extract, calcium carbonate, yucca extract
Protein (21%) Fat (10%)

JWB caused extreme diahorrea once it was being fed on its own (mixed with burns at first) and swiftly disposed of.

Arden Grange - Lamb and Rice - Lamb Meal* (min 30%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.
Protein 25%, Oil 16%

AG Produced an extremely irritable, over sensitive dog that ran around snapping at invisible flies all day. - swiftly disposed of.

Wainrights Salmon & Potato - Salmon Protein (min. 23%), Potato (min. 21%), Sorghum, Whole Grain Barley (min. 10%), Atlantic Fish Meal, Whole Linseed (min. 4%), Sugar Beet Pulp (min. 5%), Sunflower Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Alfalfa, Natural Seawood (min. 0.5%), Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Methionine, Marigold Extract, Yucca Extract, Rosemary Extract.
Protein 21%, Fat & Oils 10%

My dog did fantasticly on this food, increased volume of poos but no ill effects, after 3 months on it, started picking through it and refused to eat half of it :rolleyes:

Barking Heads Lamb & Rice - [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Fresh Lamb (min 26%), White Rice (min 26%), Dried Lamb (min 26%), Ground Oats, Lamb Fat, Salmon Oil, Whole Linseed, Minerals, Dried Tomato, Natural Seaweed, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, Vitamins.
Protein 22%, Fat 16% Technically it isn't 52% lamb as they say it's 31% (Fresh lamb is 80% moisture)
[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It looks like I have changed foods a lot, but the only purpose was to find an alternative to Burns which I mixed any new food with gradually over a month, if there were problems with the new food after a second month I reverted back to Burns after a few days of boiled lamb,rice & veg. Burns to raw - she was given lamb ribs on a Sunday for a few weeks first but it was a straight switch and the same back because of the different make up of raw and commercial food I didn't want to mix them on the same day. The only time I didn't revert to Burns was the switch from Wainrights to BH as no problems with the food.
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After 5 months on Barking heads, I'm currently switching over from BH Lamb & Rice to BH Salmon & Potato to avoid constantly only feeding a lamb/rice diet, it'll take me a month to switch but there's less meat content in the salmon (20% after adjusting for the 'fresh' element) so the end result will be interesting.

<ETA possibly more than 20% protein actually if the potato content refers to non-dehydrated)

Time for me to go get a life tbh :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

Long story short, my own limited experience with this one dog backs up what the OP's vet has told them and their dog appears they could possibly have have a similar issue from what limited information we are told. I was told by a lot of people that this "hyperactivity" I speak of is normal behaviour for my breed. Crashing blindly into walls and running in circles to the point of exhaustion is not normal for any breed, so it might help if the OP would define what they describe as 'hyper' so we know what they are describing in the dogs behaviour.

planetX

I switched 2 months ago from Burns chicken and rice, protein 18.5%, to clinivet junior, protein 26%. My biggest worry was that such an increase in protein would affect my dogs behaviour - it hasn't, I've noticed no difference or hyperactivity. If anything he's a bit calmer I presume because he's not so hungry all the time. And his ribs are finally disappearing:eek:

meoklmrk91

Hello all,

Thanks for the feedback?, definitely some interesting points of view. I am definitely thinking about switching to the burns just to see how it goes. If it makes no difference then I will know its the dog himself and not the protein.

As for how I would describe his specific hyperactivity, well he cannot focus on anything. We can no longer leave him in the house when we have guest because he cannot relax, ends up drooling and slobbering everywhere, he is also a jumper he jumps on everyone except for me and my mother, basically when he gets exited and that could be something very basic such as opening the door to leave him out in the morning, he leaps around the place and is running in circles. Anything that gets him excited means that he is a complete mess and I know myself he isn't happy, he yawns a lot while whining at the same time indicating stress, and goes around like he doesn't know what to do with himself, even the sound of my voice excites him do much that I have to use hand signals in order to control him.

I still have a good bit of Arden grange left but once we are about half way down the bag I will get some burns, mix it in and see how we go. If it makes him a happier dog who isn't do stressed all the time then I will be happy. If it has adverse effects then obviously it will be gone immediately.

luckyfrank

I use arden grange for my husky and his coat is amazing and loves it, i was told huskies need high protein which is why i got it, no complaints his poo's are solid, happy customer

Ronnie Beck

cut out all high carb food sources ( any dry food is full of carbs which is like lucozade for dogs). just feed him raw meat with a spoonfull of cooked veg and spoonful of rice/potato. This will calm your dog and improve his concentration along with exercise at least 45 mins a day off the lead playing games with him as you walk.

meoklmrk91

luckyfrank wrote: »

I use arden grange for my husky and his coat is amazing and loves it, i was told huskies need high protein which is why i got it, no complaints his poo's are solid, happy customer

I was a big fan too, he looks amazing, his weight is perfect but if it is contrubuting to his hyperactivity then I think it is worth changing. I would still highly recommend it to other dog owners though, it is great quality.

meoklmrk91

So I finally got my shipment of burns today, 30KG, i made sure to have enough Arden grange left over to mix in with the burbs over a period of two weeks to make sure that we don't get any upset tummies. This experiment will be running over the space of 2 months and I will keep this thread updated during that time, weekly is best I suppose but maybe less if there is no change.

If I see a lower hyperactivity level then I will be happy out, if not then nothing ventured nothing gained. I will also weigh him tomorrow and every few weeks through our the experiment as I have heard that some people had their dogs loosing weight on burns and my vet. said he was the perfect weight. Last time I weighed him he was 25Kg at a year old I would be expecting something closer to 30kg now.

So let's see how this goes....