Cheating

PrettyBoy

OP, if I were you I'd stay out of it and say nothing. You have absolutely nothing to gain from telling on the lads and you stand to lose at least 2 friends if you do tell. You're be the one that will be interfering and meddling with other peoples relationships. I know you feel bad for the girls and you want them to know but I really don't think you should be the one to tell them, it will really be more hassle than it's worth, it will end badly and you'll look back on it and say "I wish I never got involved" ...

rosskind

You have bad friends.

LambsEye

Cheating is such a nasty pursuit and while I loathe the act I'm afraid I agree with the general consensus. Say nating. I would however, tell the boys that you think what they did was balls.

billybilly

Cheating has become part and parcel of dating in Irish culture, due to the bond between Irish male and female being so weak. It seems to be that the dismantling of gender roles tarnishes the fabric of relationships. Back when I was young, and men were men while women were women, there was a strong connection between the genders and when people had romantic partners it would lead to marriage the high majority of the time. Whatever evil force has robbed us of this is despicable. I blame the television set. When I watch it in the evening time, I feel a great sense of disgust. Homosexuals are now being portrayed in such a positive manner, there's nothing wrong with gay people, but do we actually need to be encouraging this kind of carry on? Why is there so much homosexuality on the television set these days? Are we trying to make the homosexuals feel included? I think it's more important that we make sure they don't feel excluded rather than make them feel overly included. In my view that simply normalizes it to the young generation whom will identify themselves with it. I've seen that happen since the late 60's, where young people emulate what they see on that damned screen. gelled hair and ripped clothing, surely that's not how you were raised to behave? Your parents never dressed like that. I'm going slightly off the point.

Laika1986

OP I would stay from telling the girls, I would confront the two lads and see if they genuinely regret it. If they do then forget about it and move on. If not it'l happen again and they will eventually get caught!

Evie90

I'd say nothing you'll get no thanks for it and the girls might not believe you, a lot of people go into complete denial when somebody tell them they're being cheated on and you could end up being the bad guy in the situation i.e your friends could tell their girlfriends 'don't mind him, he's just jealous...' and you'll look like you made the whole thing up just to get with one or both of the girls. What goes around comes around this will come back to bight your friends in the ass eventually.

KeithM89_old

billybilly wrote: »

Cheating has become part and parcel of dating in Irish culture, due to the bond between Irish male and female being so weak. It seems to be that the dismantling of gender roles tarnishes the fabric of relationships. Back when I was young, and men were men while women were women, there was a strong connection between the genders and when people had romantic partners it would lead to marriage the high majority of the time. Whatever evil force has robbed us of this is despicable. I blame the television set. When I watch it in the evening time, I feel a great sense of disgust. Homosexuals are now being portrayed in such a positive manner, there's nothing wrong with gay people, but do we actually need to be encouraging this kind of carry on? Why is there so much homosexuality on the television set these days? Are we trying to make the homosexuals feel included? I think it's more important that we make sure they don't feel excluded rather than make them feel overly included. In my view that simply normalizes it to the young generation whom will identify themselves with it. I've seen that happen since the late 60's, where young people emulate what they see on that damned screen. gelled hair and ripped clothing, surely that's not how you were raised to behave? Your parents never dressed like that. I'm going slightly off the point.

Bye.

philologos

bluewolf wrote: »

tell the lads to tell the gfs or you will

I agree entirely.

They have a right to know. Sometimes doing the right thing can cost you though, but I think that although it isn't strictly the OP's business their girlfriends deserve to know. In a sense perhaps staying quiet is being complicit in some way.

later12

You're supposed to be friends with these men OP. That doesn't give you dominion over their lives and relationships (much less, their girlfriends' lives and relationships). That means you support and defend them, and sometimes you show them blind loyalty even when they are plainly in the wrong. You do not use the internet like a magic 8 ball in pondering whether you should dob them in to their girlfriends.

I've been that cheating bastard... I wrecked a great relationship with the girl of my dreams for a girl who I'm pretty sure could have made a living as a Rosie O'Donnell impersonator. My mates often let me know how much I screwed up with that girl, and they've never let me drink brandy since, but I would be absolutely horrified if any of them ever considered doing what you're considering. That is not how a man should behave towards his friends.

I cannot understand how you would put this girl's interests before your friends' interests (hoes before bros, so to speak).

philologos

^^ Is that really what friendship is about? Backing dishonesty and lies? - I think caring about ones friends would also be about motivating them to do the right thing.

I think if more people did take that approach maybe people would take cheating a little more seriously? If it isn't acceptable, then other people shouldn't regard it as acceptable.

stupidusername

later10 wrote: »

I've been that cheating bastard... I wrecked a great relationship with the girl of my dreams for a girl who I'm pretty sure could have made a living as a Rosie O'Donnell impersonator. My mates often let me know how much I screwed up with that girl, and they've never let me drink brandy since, but I would be absolutely horrified if any of them ever considered doing what you're considering. That is not how a man should behave towards his friends.

I cannot understand how you would put this girl's interests before your friends' interests (hoes before bros, so to speak).

Are you saying the particular drink that you had had some part to play in that?

and I think partly what makes this different is that he's friends with the girls too.

philologos wrote: »

^^ Is that really what friendship is about? Backing dishonesty and lies? - I think caring about ones friends would also be about motivating them to do the right thing.

Yeah, this should be the minimum tbh. even if he doesn't tell them himself.

flanders1979

Secondary school relationships ffs

Carter P Fly

Friends come and go, what's important is you do the nasty with at least one of their girls in the near future to clear your conscience

later12

philologos wrote: »

^^ Is that really what friendship is about? Backing dishonesty and lies?

Sometimes it can be what friendship is about, yes.

A friendship is not really a rational relationship. It's not like a relationship one might have with a gym or a bank, you don't just wipe it away when you don't like something about it anymore. The difference with friendship is the necessity for loyalty... something i think hasn't been fully considered by some respondents to the OP.

I think caring about ones friends would also be about motivating them to do the right thing.

Absolutely,and there's nothing wrong with the OP doing that (if telling these girls is indeed the right thing to do, but that's another issue). What is wrong is to unilaterally go and tell your mate's girlfriend he cheated on her.

stupidusername wrote: »

and I think partly what makes this different is that he's friends with the girls too.

Yeah but it appears to be a different level of friendship. The OP counts these two guys as his best friends.

I am friends with all my mates' girlfriends - for as long as they remain their girlfriends. It's a totally different bond and I don't think it would cross my mind to approach them to let them know every time one of my mates cheated, or passed some cruel comment about women, or did something else that is generally unacceptable.

Abi

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

At a party last night, and my 2 two friends cheated on their girlfriends of 7 months. I know these 2 guys all my life and are probabley are my best friends. I know the girls since i started secondary school and im good friends with them also. Im torn over whether i should say something to the girls or keep my mouth shut?

If they're untrustworthy boyfriends, what makes you think they're trustworthy friends at any capacity.

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Best friends vs good friends.

There's your answer.

Nailed it.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

People love to hold the concept of friendship over you to try and get away with doing stuff. It happens all the time. If you have a moral objection to these lads behaviour then you need to think about if you actually want to be friends with them.

Most people are pussies and don't want to rock the boat, are afraid of losing the geebags they call their friends and will even allow their friends to mistreat other friends rather than put the foot down.

That's really what the whole "don't tell on your mates" thing is stemming from in this thread.

Personally, your mates sound like tools...I say **** em.

Bang on as usual LF.

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I wouldn't and I have friends who have cheated. Everyone involved is happy so why would I make them unhappy.

Incorrect. Would you say that if everyone including the gfs / wives knew? Well thats everyone involved, isn't it?

Chances are the next boyfriend would cheat on her too so you aren't really doing her any favours. Nothing more important than happiness.

Nice.

philologos

later10 wrote: »

Sometimes it can be what friendship is about, yes.

A friendship is not really a rational relationship. It's not like a relationship one might have with a gym or a bank, you don't just wipe it away when you don't like something about it anymore. The difference with friendship is the necessity for loyalty... something i think hasn't been fully considered by some respondents to the OP.

I guess I have to disagree with you. I'd think that I was a lousy friend if I didn't strongly encourage my friend to do the right thing in a situation like that. I'd think I was lousy in that I would feel I would be letting them down in not advising them to do what was right.

later10 wrote: »

Absolutely,and there's nothing wrong with the OP doing that (if telling these girls is indeed the right thing to do, but that's another issue). What is wrong is to unilaterally go and tell your mate's girlfriend he cheated on her.

I wouldn't think it was wrong. It's intrinsically the right thing to do.

later10 wrote: »

Yeah but it appears to be a different level of friendship. The OP counts these two guys as his best friends.

If they really respected him, they would know that he was actually right and sort their relationships out in whatever way is necessary.

In denying their partners that information, they are in a relationship under false pretenses in so far they don't know what has happened. Essentially it would be built on a lie. Is that worth it ultimately?

stupidusername

philologos wrote: »

In denying their partners that information, they are in a relationship under false pretenses in so far they don't know what has happened. Essentially it would be built on a lie. Is that worth it ultimately?

This is really turning into a debate about whether or not cheating is ok.

MagicMarker

OP, personally, in your position I'd be pretty pissed off with your mates and I'd be sure to tell them not to act like total cúnts.

I'd be seriously disappointed if a close friend of mine did this. I'd like to think my friends are better than that.

MagicMarker

stupidusername wrote: »

This is really turning into a debate about whether or not cheating is ok.

No debate required.

ArtSmart

just hope your mates dont identify you from this thread. or they might feel a little peeved. *cough*

assuming this is even vaguely true.

philologos

stupidusername wrote: »

This is really turning into a debate about whether or not cheating is ok.

The acceptability of cheating is key to whether or not the OP will intervene. The idea that the OP shouldn't do anything about it implies that cheating is acceptable, and should be ignored. I personally don't believe that to be true, so perhaps I'm working on a different assumption to other posters.

The more and more people are willing to ignore this or stand idly by, the more and more the concept that cheating is OK is encouraged in society.

ITS_A_BADGER

basically op if you dont want a lot of hassle dont bother you hole you will get grief from all partys involved weather you are with them or againsted not worth fallin out man

stupidusername

MagicMarker wrote: »

No debate required.

philologos wrote: »

The acceptability of cheating is key to whether or not the OP will intervene. The idea that the OP shouldn't do anything about it implies that cheating is acceptable, and should be ignored. I personally don't believe that to be true, so perhaps I'm working on a different assumption to other posters.

The more and more people are willing to ignore this or stand idly by, the more and more the concept that cheating is OK is encouraged in society.

well i'd like to think that people don't see it as acceptable, but it's definitely not the idea I get from the responses on this thread.

Captain_Generic

Give their girlfriends a bit of the old nob action.

JUSTICE AWAYYyyyyyyy

yeah man its all cool god forbid you fall out with the type of people that think cheating is okay to do, just don't upset anyone or be unpopular :rolleyes:

philologos

stupidusername wrote: »

well i'd like to think that people don't see it as acceptable, but it's definitely not the idea I get from the responses on this thread.

Unfortunately this can't be assumed any more. Humans have a brilliant knack at suppressing their consciences.

I do for the record think that it is important to be merciful as well. Personally I would never say to a friend that I would no longer be their friend if they did something like this, but I would definitely strongly encourage them to do something about it or present the tell them or I will ultimatum.

My name is URL

philologos wrote: »

I agree entirely.

They have a right to know. Sometimes doing the right thing can cost you though, but I think that although it isn't strictly the OP's business their girlfriends deserve to know. In a sense perhaps staying quiet is being complicit in some way.

Does that apply to all acts betrayal, untrustworthyness and secrecy. Virtually everyone has the right to know what is going on behind their backs, or without their approval, but it doesn't, or at least shouldn't mean that those witnessing it should have some moral obligation to make it known to that person.

Is there seriously nothing that you do; which you would not want at least some people to know about? You'll probably say that acts such as cheating on a partner deserve to be made known above other acts, but that's entirely subjective.

racso1975

Nodin wrote: »

Did that once when I was a lad. Both turned on me. I'd suggest following the example of the three monkeys.

You want him to throw sh!t?

later12

philologos wrote: »

I guess I have to disagree with you. I'd think that I was a lousy friend if I didn't strongly encourage my friend to do the right thing in a situation like that.

But we're not talking about simply encouraging his friends. Nobody is questioning the idea that one should always encourage friends to do the right thing in life; that's one of the important roles a friend can have.

The issue here is whether this OP should withdraw his loyalty to his friends by running to their girlfriends to tell them what has happened. To my mind, that's a question of giving up on a friendship, because there is no way his friends could maintain any confidence in him.

I wouldn't think it was wrong. It's intrinsically the right thing to do.

I don't think there is such a thing as "intrinsically right".

In denying their partners that information, they are in a relationship under false pretenses in so far they don't know what has happened. Essentially it would be built on a lie. Is that worth it ultimately?

Well it doesn't quite mean the relationship is "built on" a lie, but certainly dishonesty has occurred.

And it's not the OP's role to moderate relationships to which he is not a party. It is basically none of his business; apart from advising his mates what he thinks he should do, the op should stay out of it.

round tower huntsman

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

At a party last night, and my 2 two friends cheated on their girlfriends of 7 months. I know these 2 guys all my life and are probabley are my best friends. I know the girls since i started secondary school and im good friends with them also. Im torn over whether i should say something to the girls or keep my mouth shut?

keep yer mouth shut......... rat.

later12

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'd be seriously disappointed if a close friend of mine did this. I'd like to think my friends are better than that.

It must be nice to only befriend those who are perfect.

bluewolf wrote: »

yeah man its all cool god forbid you fall out with the type of people that think cheating is okay to do, just don't upset anyone or be unpopular :rolleyes:

How do we know the OP's mates think cheating is okay. We are at a level of inference here that I don't really think is very reliable for the basis of debate. We don't know what is going on in the OP's heads, or their girlfriends' heads, or their bedrooms, or their relationshiops.

Just because someone cheats and doesn't own up, it doesn't mean they believe cheating is acceptable.

philologos

later10 wrote: »

But we're not talking about simply encouraging his friends. Nobody is questioning the idea that one should always encourage friends to do the right thing in life; that's one of the important roles a friend can have.

The issue here is whether this OP should withdraw his loyalty to his friends by running to their girlfriends to tell them what has happened. To my mind, that's a question of giving up on a friendship, because there is no way his friends could maintain any confidence in him.

If the friendship ends, that will be as a result of his friends not being able to see that they should have done the right thing. I believe if more people put these ethical boundaries up then less people would end up cheating because they would know how it was regarded socially. If we fail to do this, cheating becomes acceptable in a way?

If I was doing something wrong, I would expect my friends to tell me so.

later10 wrote: »

I don't think there is such a thing as "intrinsically right".

Evidently, because Western societies have abandoned the notion, which is why there is so much confusion around subjects like this. It's why I believe there is such a thing as objective rights and wrongs which are mind independent, but that's getting into philosophy.

I believe strongly that ethical principles have been laid down and we should strive to follow them.

later10 wrote: »

Well it doesn't quite mean the relationship is "built on" a lie, but certainly dishonesty has occurred.

If you don't tell them the truth. Then they are in the relationship under false pretenses. You've kept information from them that they should rightfully know, because if they did know that information it might well mean them making a pragmatic decision in terms of that relationship. Essentially, if you don't know the truth about the relationship, it is founded on a lie to a certain extent.

later10 wrote: »

And it's not the OP's role to moderate relationships to which he is not a party. It is basically none of his business; apart from advising his mates what he thinks he should do, the op should stay out of it.

I don't know, I think if the OP really cares about his friends doing the right thing, it is an option.

later10

later10 wrote: »

It must be nice to only befriend those who are perfect.

How do we know the OP's mates think cheating is okay. We are at a level of inference here that I don't really think is very reliable for the basis of debate. We don't know what is going on in the OP's heads, or their girlfriends' heads, or their bedrooms, or their relationshiops.

Just because someone cheats and doesn't own up, it doesn't mean they believe cheating is acceptable.

That's true, it's just irritating me

downwithpeace

stupidusername wrote: »

well i'd like to think that people don't see it as acceptable, but it's definitely not the idea I get from the responses on this thread.

Depends on the nature of the relationship, if one party sees a future in the relationship then I would see it as a complete and utter betrayal of that relationship but if both are in it for the fun then it shouldn't be such an issue.

If a friend told me they were in love or saw a future with another one of my friends, best or not, I would have to let them know.

stupidusername

later10 wrote: »

And it's not the OP's role to moderate relationships to which he is not a party. It is basically none of his business; apart from advising his mates what he thinks he should do, the op should stay out of it.

yeah you've a point. I dunno, I'm stuck on this one. I'm trying to imagine what would I do if I was in this position. Firstly I'd have every faith in my friends that none of them would do this. but if it did happen, well I suppose it would depend on how their relationship was as to whether or not I'd push them to tell their partner. it might be the case where I'd be suggesting they break up anyway. I don't mean to sound angelic or whatever but I really don't know that I could be friends with someone that a) would do this and b) would be ok with not telling their partner. My friends are really good people and I can't imagine wanting to be friends with someone who would do that and be ok with it.

wesf

having been in a similar situation, take it from me...STAY OUT OF IT!! i made the mistake of saying something and it came back on me in a bad way, never again is all i'll say!

stupidusername

wesf wrote: »

having been in a similar situation, take it from me...STAY OUT OF IT!! i made the mistake of saying something and it came back on me in a bad way, never again is all i'll say!

i'm not picking on you here, just using your post as an example, it seems what all of this comes down to is selfishness:
cheating and not telling your partner is down to fear that they'll break up with you over it. the way I see it is it's not your place to decide that they shouldn't have this information because of what you think they'll do. it's not fair on your partner, and it screams of wanting control. if you've cheated it's likely there's something wrong in your relationship, and surely of all people your partner deserves to know that?

but selfishness seems to also be coming through in those posters that are saying don't do it, they'll never forgive you and you'll lose your friends... I just don't know that I could agree with this. I mean first, if your friend can't see that they were the one in the wrong, and decide to blame you for the presumed break up, then fuck'em. but second, why are you so ok with keeping this a secret just to save your own skin?

philologos

My name is URL wrote: »

Does that apply to all acts betrayal, untrustworthyness and secrecy. Virtually everyone has the right to know what is going on behind their backs, or without their approval, but it doesn't, or at least shouldn't mean that those witnessing it should have some moral obligation to make it known to that person.

Is there seriously nothing that you do; which you would not want at least some people to know about? You'll probably say that acts such as cheating on a partner deserve to be made known above other acts, but that's entirely subjective.

I'm single. Therefore I have nobody to be accountable to apart from God.

If there was something significant that I had to tell my partner for any reason, I would. I'm not a perfect person and nobody is, and like everyone else, I need to keep myself ethically in line, or have people inform me that what I'm doing is wrong sometimes so I can correct it. The question is are we willing to correct it or are we just going to try pass off the wrong that we've done as being acceptable?

Everybody has things that they wouldn't want other people to know, but ultimately that doesn't mean that they shouldn't know. As a relationship progresses, things about yourself become apparent or at least they should. I think there should be a correlation between the amount of time and trust, and as that trust develops more of the character is known. Cheating however, is patent dishonesty, and is a key criterion of whether or not someone will want to continue being with you. In keeping that silent it is questionable as to whether or not they really even consent to being in the relationship because it's under false pretenses.

If I wouldn't do something about this, it would be presenting the idea that I feel that cheating is acceptable. I don't though.

round tower huntsman

its nowt to do with op. he shouldnt say anything. "never rat on your friends" and "mind your own business", two simple rules that will stand to you all through life.

Abi

later10 wrote: »

How do we know the OP's mates think cheating is okay. We are at a level of inference here that I don't really think is very reliable for the basis of debate. We don't know what is going on in the OP's heads, or their girlfriends' heads, or their bedrooms, or their relationshiops.

Just because someone cheats and doesn't own up, it doesn't mean they believe cheating is acceptable.

I've gotten to know your posts around AH over the last while, and I've always found myself thinking you had a great point about something, and quite insightful at times. And on that note, I'd ask you to give my say here some thought.

You confessed earlier on in the thread that cheating was something you had done. I have some very strong views against it, but hear me out. While you seem apologetic for what you did, and sorry for your loss, why would you defend it know what it cost you?

Genuine question L10, no finger pointing or anything.

MagicMarker

later10 wrote: »

It must be nice to only befriend those who are perfect.

Perfection isn't required, but you have to at least make an effort.

later10 wrote: »

And it's not the OP's role to moderate relationships to which he is not a party. It is basically none of his business; apart from advising his mates what he thinks he should do, the op should stay out of it.

Oh reaaaalllyy..... So, if the OP came on here and said his best mate's girlfriend cheated on him, would you be saying the same thing?

wesf

stupidusername wrote: »

i'm not picking on you here, just using your post as an example, it seems what all of this comes down to is selfishness:
cheating and not telling your partner is down to fear that they'll break up with you over it. the way I see it is it's not your place to decide that they shouldn't have this information because of what you think they'll do. it's not fair on your partner, and it screams of wanting control. if you've cheated it's likely there's something wrong in your relationship, and surely of all people your partner deserves to know that?

but selfishness seems to also be coming through in those posters that are saying don't do it, they'll never forgive you and you'll lose your friends... I just don't know that I could agree with this. I mean first, if your friend can't see that they were the one in the wrong, and decide to blame you for the presumed break up, then fuck'em. but second, why are you so ok with keeping this a secret just to save your own skin?

not about saving your own skin, in my situation, my friend was going out with this girl, she was seeing some other lad behind his back, when i found out i told my friend. he confronted her, she talked him round and he lost it with me for "making up stuff", you just can't win in those situations, best keep your mouth shut and let them find out for themselves

CrazyRabbit

Anyone untrustworthy enough to cheat on their girlfriends isn't someone I'd like to have as a friend. Being of that type of character, they'd probably turn on you in an instant.

Having a few good, decent, honest friends is more important to me. Quality over quantity.

danger mouse

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

At a party last night, and my 2 two friends cheated on their girlfriends of 7 months. I know these 2 guys all my life and are probabley are my best friends. I know the girls since i started secondary school and im good friends with them also. Im torn over whether i should say something to the girls or keep my mouth shut?

Tell the girls what they're dealing with. Them guys are scumbags...I hate cheating :mad:

KKkitty

OP tell your friends what you know. They should know what their so called boyfriends are doing. If you were in that position wouldn't you want to know? Your friends deserve better than that.

PrettyBoy

bluewolf wrote: »

yeah man its all cool god forbid you fall out with the type of people that think cheating is okay to do, just don't upset anyone or be unpopular :rolleyes:

Jesus Christ, he clearly said that he's known the 2 lads his whole life and they're his best mates. You don't know a thing about them or their relationships and you're suggesting that the OP falling out with them wouldn't be a bad thing, cop on and get a ****ing grip, it must be great having friends that are all as perfect as you...

PrettyBoy

KKkitty wrote: »

OP tell your friends what you know. They should know what their so called boyfriends are doing. If you were in that position wouldn't you want to know? Your friends deserve better than that.

How do you know the girls deserve better than that? How do you know the girls have never cheated themselves? Oh, right - you don't. You don't know them so I guess you're not really in a position to say what they deserve. OP should just stay out of it and worry about himself instead of making his friends problems his own.

Logical Fallacy

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Jesus Christ, he clearly said that he's known the 2 lads his whole life and they're his best mates. You don't know a thing about them or their relationships and you're suggesting that the OP falling out with them wouldn't be a bad thing, cop on and get a ****ing grip, it must be great having friends that are all as perfect as you...

Lots of undercurrents of anger going on in this thread.

MagicMarker

PrettyBoy wrote: »

How do you know the girls deserve better than that? How do you know the girls have never cheated themselves? Oh, right - you don't. You don't know them so I guess you're not really in a position to say what they deserve. OP should just stay out of it and worry about himself instead of making his friends problems his own.

If your best mates gf was cheating on him would you take your own advice?

Logical Fallacy

MagicMarker wrote: »

If your best mates gf was cheating on him would you take your own advice?

You won't get a decent answer from a poster who is using the "you don't know" them argument to contradict himself without realising it tbh.