MMO's arent quite MMO's anymore...

Nothingbetter2d

Nody wrote: »

Star Trek online? SWG? The two space games that came out oh 4ish years ago? Earth and Beyond or something like that (both are cancelled now).

Saying it's only size is due to being the only space MMO is a false premise; I think the scope and drama possible is a huge driver honestly (and the fact is is different from "normal" MMO by offline training, sandbox style, space, no safe areas etc.).

not to mention the merging of dust 514 on ps3 into eve online... this will add even more game play options

for carebears its making weapons, vehicles, and defensive armor to sell to pvp'ers.

for dust 514 pvp'ers its fps combat on the worlds of new eden fighting for merc contracts

for eve online alliances its using the ps3 players to help them conquer planets and amass huge wealth & glory.

witless1

The integration of Dust is going to set a standard for future MMOs, if they get it right that is. If they can deliver a cross platform experience, that brings a feeling of character progression and making a difference in a larger picture, they will provide a way into the console market. MMOs need millions in subscribers, if WoW is the barometer, and tapping into a % of the console market who don't want a full blown MMO could help any future game. What bored me with console FPS games is the fact you had no sense of progression outside of an imaginary ranking system. Evolving your characters gear and weapons and making an impact on another game could attract new players to a PC MMO as well as rope in the casual gamer. My interest in EVE all along was tied very much to the concept of Dust and where it is going. I'm going to have to buy a PS3 though to play it!

Venom

Nody wrote: »

Star Trek online? SWG? The two space games that came out oh 4ish years ago? Earth and Beyond or something like that (both are cancelled now).

Saying it's only size is due to being the only space MMO is a false premise; I think the scope and drama possible is a huge driver honestly (and the fact is is different from "normal" MMO by offline training, sandbox style, space, no safe areas etc.).

Both STO and SWG are hybrids of ground and space combat with the first being utter crap when it launched and the second being shafted non stop by SOE until they pulled the plug and turned the servers off.

EvE is the only true space based combat MMO out at the moment.

Dr Bob

nix wrote: »

In my experience, people who dont like PVP are people who are not good at PvP

PvP will make you a better player all around, in both pve and pvp. Its sad to me that they dont put more focus into PvP especially on a PvP server.

PvE players are so bad they depend on mods to tell them how to play the game and majority of them still fail, its just so boring and unrewarding.

Conversely , usually the only people who like PVP are the ones who are good at it.
Back in my wow days being ganked to logout out by angry 12 year old undead Rogues who were ten levels above you was not fun.
(usually by the time you could get a few guildies to fly over to help you they'd gone)

Kiith

Venom wrote: »

EvE is the only true space based combat MMO out at the moment.

Don't forget Black Prophecy. Granted, it's not successful like Eve, but it is in space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC8XT-CfK8M

Venom

Kiith wrote: »

Don't forget Black Prophecy. Granted, it's not successful like Eve, but it is in space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC8XT-CfK8M

I didn't even know it was out yet

neilk32

Dustaz wrote: »

noone played it for any length of time. Im sure theres a few people still playing it and having a great time. Its not hard to keep 100 people happy.

There are over 5000 subscriptions still on the game even with one of the worst companies in MMO history behind it. Take a look at the stats on mmorpg.com, it has around 2,000,000 unique page views for the past year.

If the game had a good company behind it, it would be one of the most successful games out there. I along with thousands of others will wait for Darkfall 2.0 relaunch and if they get it right, the game will be very successful.

blatantrereg

That looks interesting. If they just keep the same characters/stats/inventory as the original then the legacy of all the exploits and cheats will remain though. Those are what spoiled the current game... As well as the huge investment required to develop a strong character without those.

I'm not encouraged by their assertion that wiping or not would make no difference because the game will be so different. Sounds like a cop-out.

Dustaz

neilk32 wrote: »

If the game had a good company behind it, it would be one of the most successful games out there.

No it wouldn't.

I along with thousands of others will wait for Darkfall 2.0 relaunch and if they get it right, the game will be very successful.

No it won't.


I understand theres people who like that sort of game. about 5000 it seems.

Noone else does though. Thats what you need to understand.

Big Knox

Dustaz wrote: »

No it wouldn't.

No it won't.


I understand theres people who like that sort of game. about 5000 it seems.

Noone else does though. Thats what you need to understand.

Sorry but you are far too gone on the opposite side of this argument and even though the bulk of what you are saying has valid points you are wrong in saying there is no playerbase for this type of hardcore pvp based MMO.

WoW is the "CoD" of PC games in it is very easy to pick up play and enjoy so its player base grew insanely fast attracting new gamers in the millions. It became the new standard for making $$$. Any dev company making a new MMO is going to be pushed into making a WoW clone pve centric game as it's ultimately what the publisher is going to make them do. It's all about maximizing profits at the end of the day and only indie devs who can make their own development decisions will be able too try cater for players who crave a different style. The minority as such.

Exactly the same thing is going on in the FPS genre. Every new online FPS is now made in the style of the CoD model due to publishers thinking this is what gamers want but it's just not true.

Yes the majority of MMO players want the WoW pve model but that doesn't mean there's not a large number of players crying out for a well made hardcore PVP based MMO. Darkfall failed because ultimately it had good idea's but was badly executed but I can guarantee you if a company with even half the budget blizzard have made a decent go at it and made a well designed game then it would be a success. Obviously not on the scale of WoW but a hell of alot more than 5000 would be playing.

On a final note, even the hardcore pve playerbase is slowly being pushed down the pecking order to cater for the more casual player. Don't be surprised in 2 or 3 years time to be on the other side of this argument, crying out for an MMO that has challenging and difficult end game pve and getting met with posts similar to your own stating there is no demand for such a thing anymore.

TheDoc

nix wrote: »

PvE players are so bad they depend on mods to tell them how to play the game and majority of them still fail, its just so boring and unrewarding.

.................................

TheDoc

As for HardCore pvp, I dunno

The stream channels are full of WoW pvpers, my understanding is there have been a good few PVP games, and they were ****.

WoW is still the best even if your into PVP.

The problem is that unless its a solely focused PVP game, then its going to be imbalanced, and PVE'rs will hate you for it.

I detest the PVP world in WoW, I really do. It the sole reason ( as stated numerous times by Blizzard developers) as probably the one thing they would remove from the game (arena) as it has made the game nigh on impossible to balance.

A fractional change to balance in one aspect, will imbalance on the other.

And to elaborate more on the comment from Nix, thats a retarded comment to make.

The one, underlying comment that I hear time and time again from watching streams of the "rank 1's yo" which are in abundance around the net (and I watch alot of them) is that its stupidly random and or easy to get highly ranked, and that it is definitly NOT based on player skill, with it simply being using the comp of the month and acquiring the correct gear.

TBH I'm more viewing this then contributing, cause I genuinely feel I cant contribute constructively because of my hatred for pvp and its player (and I am more then happy to tar all with the same brush) and the recent scrubby ****s getting into pugs and lfr doesnt eliviate that feeling.

I just dont see how MMORPG fantasy based game would actually succeed being strictly PVP, might be me, sounds monotonous as ****

blatantrereg

TheDoc wrote: »

As for HardCore pvp, I dunno

The stream channels are full of WoW pvpers, my understanding is there have been a good few PVP games, and they were ****.

WoW is still the best even if your into PVP.

The problem is that unless its a solely focused PVP game, then its going to be imbalanced, and PVE'rs will hate you for it.

I detest the PVP world in WoW, I really do. It the sole reason ( as stated numerous times by Blizzard developers) as probably the one thing they would remove from the game (arena) as it has made the game nigh on impossible to balance.

A fractional change to balance in one aspect, will imbalance on the other.

And to elaborate more on the comment from Nix, thats a retarded comment to make.

The one, underlying comment that I hear time and time again from watching streams of the "rank 1's yo" which are in abundance around the net (and I watch alot of them) is that its stupidly random and or easy to get highly ranked, and that it is definitly NOT based on player skill, with it simply being using the comp of the month and acquiring the correct gear.

TBH I'm more viewing this then contributing, cause I genuinely feel I cant contribute constructively because of my hatred for pvp and its player (and I am more then happy to tar all with the same brush) and the recent scrubby ****s getting into pugs and lfr doesnt eliviate that feeling.

I just dont see how MMORPG fantasy based game would actually succeed being strictly PVP, might be me, sounds monotonous as ****

I found Darkfall great fun, more exciting than almost any other game thanks to the full looting, constant threat etc, except actually inside starter cities, and a vault system that was accessible at various points throughout the world. It did have PvE, crafting, player built cities and villages, an interesting world to explore with different areas, NPC cities and quests. For me it did prove the concept of a PVP-based game.

It was spoilt because there were obvious cheats in the PvP, and really bad exploits in the PvE. I saw players defying the physics of the game without repurcussion, kicking through walls to gather loot safely from endgame monsters etc. In fact I was in a big allaince who banged on ceaselessly about how they were above such things. When I said in the chat channel I'd seen one of the senior members kicking through walls and then running quickly across water to gank me to stop me getting any of the loot, they switched to the line of "we have to because the others do it", then expelled the small guild I was in.

More importantly, the undertaking required to develop a competitive character without cheats or exploits was massive, and the skill based leveling system entailed repeatedly doing the same (boring) actions.

These things spoiled it. If the game protected against such things properly, and facilitated levelling up in a faster and more enjoyable manner, it would have been brilliant tbh.

Omphin

TheDoc wrote: »

I just dont see how MMORPG fantasy based game would actually succeed being strictly PVP, might be me, sounds monotonous as ****

I disagree, Take a look at eve online. Although its sci fi not fantasy, its dominated by pvp. The only trouble eve has is its learning curve which tends to turn people away from getting more into the game. Apply an eve style pvp world to something like WoW and many people ( most WoW pvpers ) would leave WoW in the morning to play in it.

TheDoc

Omphin wrote: »

I disagree, Take a look at eve online. Although its sci fi not fantasy, its dominated by pvp. The only trouble eve has is its learning curve which tends to turn people away from getting more into the game. Apply an eve style pvp world to something like WoW and many people ( most WoW pvpers ) would leave WoW in the morning to play in it.

As I said, FANTASY style RPG

neilk32

Dustaz wrote: »

No it wouldn't.

No it won't.


I understand theres people who like that sort of game. about 5000 it seems.

Noone else does though. Thats what you need to understand.

Nice selective quoting you got going there.

Just go to http://www.mmorpg.com/ and look at the most popular games for the last year. Over 2.5 million unique hits for such a small game. If Darkfall 2.0 is a success I'm part of various communities from my time playing the game and there would be at least 300 players come back from them. It's the same for tons of different gaming communities.

Jimbob 83

MMO PVP at the highest level (stream)

http://www.filefront.com/16752651/Swoopkins3.wmv/