Social housing for non-EU nationals queried

dj jarvis

Nodin wrote: »

...it's a legal interpretation of the individuals case as it compares to the law as stated, rather than a bullet list, afaik. You obviously can't claim if there isn't a "well founded fear...". This would normally rule out somebody fleeing from the US because he fears being sodomised by zombie canadians, from France because he says they're going to kill protestants en masse when they gave that hobby up a few years back and so on.

LOL , tea coming out my nose

dj jarvis

ResearchWill wrote: »

Any who claim do so telling a story that on the face of it would qualify them as a Refugee. Many decisions from ORAC and the RAT start by saying this is the claim if this claim was true then the person would qualify. But then the decision makers goes through the claim how the person gave evidence etc to decide if the person is telling the truth or not. What proof do they have that they come from a certain area or happened to have certain political beliefs.

Also a person can be refused Asylum because they took part in or had an involvement in crimes against humanity.

but they must have some way of making this decision because its been stated that 90% fail , so they must have a criteria for failing applications
hence my quote of have " lists "

this is the point im trying to make ( obviously badly :eek: )

ResearchWill

flanders1979 wrote: »

2%. I'm being generous. That not saying the percentage would have been higher if the applicants finished out their claims

My Maths is not very strong but if the published figure is 10% of decisions are positive and you are saying it's 2% because a load of applications are not processed, then you are saying only 1 in 5 applications result in a decision. Please feel free to correct my Maths. Can you show figures to show. 80% of applicants for Asylum never get or got any decision. Or if you can show me my figures are wrong pleas do I did make it clear I'm crap at figures.

ResearchWill

dj jarvis wrote: »

but they must have some way of making this decision because its been stated that 90% fail , so they must have a criteria for failing applications
hence my quote of have " lists "

this is the point im trying to make ( obviously badly :eek: )

The convention sets out who qualifies as a refugee. That is not the issue the issue is does the decision maker believe the story. There is a decision first does this story if I believe it qualify, say the person says they where a member of a political party in Syria. Now that would be under one of the convention grounds fear of persecution because of political opinion. Now during interview the decision maker confirms that the ID documents are fakes, that the person has no idea of the political leadership of the party and knows nothing of the history of Syria. Then the decision makers says I don't think he is Syrian he is more likely some other country as he is telling porkies he does not have a valid reason for Asylum.

whatsamsn

This thread just makes me think:

"MORAL CRUSADERS ... ASSEMBLE!!
Someone is mentioning non nationals. We must act swiftly in accusing others, who's opinions differ from ours, as being racist!

go go moral crusaders!"

lividduck

whatsamsn wrote: »

This thread just makes me think:

"MORAL CRUSADERS ... ASSEMBLE!!
Someone is mentioning non nationals. We must act swiftly in accusing others, who's opinions differ from ours, as being racist!

go go moral crusaders!"

What is a non national? I would presume everyone is a national of somewhere

Lawrence1895

lividduck wrote: »

What is a non national? I would presume everyone is a national of somewhere

I am a non national, because I was born in Germany :pac:

dr.bollocko

So we're calling them moral crusaders now?
I guess it's a step sideways from bleeding heart leftie pinko liberal etc. etc.

the_syco

Chinasea wrote: »

OP, have you ever stopped to think how your ancestors’ i.e. refugees must have felt when they fled on coffin ships looking to start a new life.

They went to America and got nothing, as opposed to flying to Ireland and getting a place to live?

mikemac1 wrote: »

How did they end up on a small island in the Atlantic Ocean?

The "Dublin Agreement" allows them to leap-frog from wherever they are, to Ireland, and claim Ireland as the first place they landed.

HavingCrack

Chinasea wrote: »

• OP, have you ever stopped to think how your ancestors’ i.e. refugees must have felt when they fled on coffin ships looking to start a new life.

I suspect if any of our ancestors did flee on coffin ships we would all be American or Canadian...

Clareboy

The late Minister for Justice, Ml. McDowell has stated that the vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland are here on the basis of ' cock and bull stories ' and he should know. This whole asylum seeking scam started with the ' Celtic Tiger ' codology of the late 90s early 2000s. Where have all the asylum seekers gone now? Obviously to where they can get the most handouts.

zenno

It's not quite on topic in relation to some posters but not bad for after hours.

As for me being racist... well all I can say to that is no, I am far from that.

All I wanted to do was ask for your opinions on this article and see what you thought about it, and most people were intelligent in their view but some were thinking my post was racist. well obviously this is incorrect as I was sharing information on a topic that I do think holds merit.

As for Brazilians, they are a lovely people as I have met a few on my travels and they are in my opinion a sound people and want to better themselves when they arrive here in Ireland.

my comment on Brazilians in my original post was just an outlining of one particular non-eu nation out of many (of which I hold no animosity towards) but the thread supplied a report on this issue of housing non-eu members, and my right to share information on a forum is and should be accepted as for freedom of information.

I brought up a topic for you all to ponder about and rude uneducated comments hold no merit when it comes to studying the latest information in regards to your country's situation.

Nodin

Clareboy wrote: »

The late Minister for Justice, Ml. McDowell .

He's not dead. Undead perhaps.

Clareboy wrote: »

......has stated that the vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland are here on the basis of ' cock and bull stories ' and he should know. ...............

Yet we compile no statistics as to that. In addition, I was unaware that the former Minister had been transformed into a touchstone of truth. Given his dubious remarks on a number of other issues, this seems to be a remarkable turn of events.

AeoNGriM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

The idea with social housing is to provide it for legally resident people - irrespective of nationality - on the basis of need. Fine Gael Councillor Kieran Dennison seems to overlook the fact that we are living in a globalised world and I suspect he is only trying to curry favour with the xenophobic envy-monger lobby.:)

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't at the same time one of the Blueshirt reactionary Catholic wing who, led by Lucy Cretin, are demanding that we continue to spend millions on an embassy in that comic-opera (and non-EU) statelet the Vatican.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Could you please elaborate on what this actually means and how it benefits Ireland as a nation and as a society please?

How does this make the point of view that we shouldn't be provided housing for non-EU nationals any less valid?

gurramok

Nodin wrote: »

Yet we compile no statistics as to that.

This fella reckons a refusal rate of 90%-96% for asylum status in 2010.


http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/asylum-seekers-claim-centre-is-like-a-prison-176043.html

Dr Hussain said there was a general sense of despair among the asylum seekers, largely due to the extreme unlikelihood of being allowed to stay.

He said just 25 out of 1,600 asylum seekers were approved for refugee status or other forms of humanitarian protection in 2010.

"Hopelessness arising from the high refusal rate (90%-96%) for asylum status was considered one of the most traumatic experiences by most of the asylum seekers having waited for 8-12 months," Dr Hussain said.

Chairman Meow

Ellis Dee wrote: »

The idea with social housing is to provide it for legally resident people - irrespective of nationality - on the basis of need. Fine Gael Councillor Kieran Dennison seems to overlook the fact that we are living in a globalised world and I suspect he is only trying to curry favour with the xenophobic envy-monger lobby.:)

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he wasn't at the same time one of the Blueshirt reactionary Catholic wing who, led by Lucy Cretin, are demanding that we continue to spend millions on an embassy in that comic-opera (and non-EU) statelet the Vatican.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yeah thats great and all, but if i went to Brazil, or the US, or Australia, do you think id be given a free house?

mikemac1

8-12 months doesn't sound efficient at all

How about making a decision within 8-12 weeks
Or even better, 8-12 days

Lawyers dragging things out I suspect and automatic appeals for everyone

ResearchWill

mikemac1 wrote: »

8-12 months doesn't sound efficient at all

How about making a decision within 8-12 weeks
Or even better, 8-12 days

Lawyers dragging things out I suspect and automatic appeals for everyone

In Asylum it is not lawyers dragging it out, in fact while there is an appeal papers must be lodged in if I remember correctly within 15 days of a decision. The problem was simply the waiting times for interview with ORAC and then waiting for appeal, this delay was brought about by a huge spike in numbers applying from prob no more than a dozen a year pre mid 1990's to a peak of some 12000 by early 2000's. the last figures I heard was that 10% of asylum seekers get status with only 2% at ORAC the remainder at the later stage of appeal.

While there are delays in Judicial Review with current waiting times to get a hearing for leave which is only the first stage taking around 4 years. Again judicial review has very tight time limits in Asylum being 15 days also to start your action. But you can't blame lawyers for those delays it is fairly at the feet of the Dept of Justice.

suicide_circus

gurramok wrote: »

This fella reckons a refusal rate of 90%-96% for asylum status in 2010.


http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/asylum-seekers-claim-centre-is-like-a-prison-176043.html

Presumably the refusal rate is so high due to people using 'cock & bull stories' to blag asylum?
Up until the situation which allowed people to claim citizenship if their child was born here was corrected, people could just come, and in the time it took officials to debunk their 'cock & bull' stories, they had had a child and therefore were home and dry so to speak. Thankfully this is no longer the case.

twinQuins

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Yeah thats great and all, but if i went to Brazil, or the US, or Australia, do you think id be given a free house?

Wait, I'm confused - is the thread about Irish immigration policy or Brazilian, American and Australian immigration policies?

AeoNGriM

twinQuins wrote: »

Wait, I'm confused - is the thread about Irish immigration policy or Brazilian, American and Australian immigration policies?

The question is relevant. Why should our government house people from nations whose governments won't house our emigrants?

I see plenty of homeless people, both Irish and EU member states, who could do with being housed instead. Not that I begrudge someone a roof over their heads, but FFs lads join the back of the queue.

Nodin

gurramok wrote: »

This fella reckons a refusal rate of 90%-96% for asylum status in 2010.


http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/asylum-seekers-claim-centre-is-like-a-prison-176043.html

The refusal rate isn't in dispute. The fact is that no reason is given for refusal. Thus we don't know those who just don't meet the criteria from those who are chancing their arms.

Nodin

AeoNGriM wrote: »

The question is relevant. Why should our government house people from nations whose governments won't house our emigrants?

..............

By which lights we should execute those who commit the equivalent here of a death penalty offence in their home countries.

Presumably the people who are eligible for housing are now Irish citizens, thus allowed to avail of whatever benefits Irish citizens are eligible for. Are you, for instance, suggesting their should be two tiers of citzenship?

twinQuins

AeoNGriM wrote: »

The question is relevant. Why should our government house people from nations whose governments won't house our emigrants?

Why shouldn't we? I just don't understand how you think it's a relevant question when it's such a juvenile argument: they don't do it so neither should we.

So, why is what they do relevant to a debate about Irish immigration policies? That is the question my post was asking.

walrusgumble

Nodin wrote: »

By which lights we should execute those who commit the equivalent here of a death penalty offence in their home countries.

Presumably the people who are eligible for housing are now Irish citizens, thus allowed to avail of whatever benefits Irish citizens are eligible for. Are you, for instance, suggesting their should be two tiers of citzenship?

could i suggest that you contact your nearest housing authority before assuming please. thanks.for the purpose of this discussion, I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs of whether they should have it.but I can tell you, that assumption, is wide off the mark. You only need to be a resident (legal)

By the way, what countries execute someone for seeking housing? Please, there is oceans of COI to scan through, by all means, select 2

walrusgumble

Nodin wrote: »

The refusal rate isn't in dispute. The fact is that no reason is given for refusal. Thus we don't know those who just don't meet the criteria from those who are chancing their arms.

Go and read the the statistics from the annual reports of ORAC and RAT. After that, spend a while going through various Asylum related Judicial Review cases and read the factual backgrounds in the report. The judges read out the reasons given by the RAT.

Please, for the love of god/allah etc , stop pretending there is no information and there is a big mystery,

Nodin

walrusgumble wrote: »

could i suggest that you contact your nearest housing authority before assuming please. thanks.for the purpose of this discussion, I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs of whether they should have it.but I can tell you, that assumption, is wide off the mark. You only need to be a resident (legal)

True. However the overall point - that you can't just pop over and claim a house - remains correct.

walrusgumble

ResearchWill wrote: »

Well since 2005 any child born in Ireland only of one of the parents has legal ties to the state, that is be an Irish citizen or resident legally in Ireland for 3 of the previous 4 years if I'm correct or it may be resident for 4 years. In any case just having a baby is no longer an automatic right to stay unless said baby is a Irish citizen. BTW the Irish government was deporting parents of Irish citizen children up untill early last year when the ECJ ruling in the zambrano said a non citizen parent was entitled to remain.

Correct as to what the law says.

But it does not deal with the immigrant who comes into Ireland today, applies for asylum. Maybe rejoins his wife or forms a relationship with another non eu woman who has being legally living here for that period, have a child. In 9 months time, and no doubt he will still be in the system waiting on an application of some sort. The child will be Irish and under a recent ECJ / CJEU case (Zambrano 2011 - as you pointed out) it may succeed in staying in Ireland

I will not say that this is a new scam, or it will ever come to much, but it is an angle that can be exploited.

walrusgumble

Nodin wrote: »

True. However the overall point - that you can't just pop over and claim a house - remains correct.

Correct, anything else is absolute bollox (and I don't care if people are offended by that phrase. Stupid comments, regardless if you agree with the overall jest of someone's view, without the slightest bit of real evidence should be met with disdain)

Misty Midlands

A close family member bought a lovely apartment in Dublin 2 years ago to be near his job. The majority of the complex (including the block he bought in) is owner occupied. When he moved in, the one vacant neighbouring block was being fitted out, the developer told us they were selling well to private buyers.
Now we find out the developer has sold the entire block FULLY furnished, carpeted, washing machine, dishwasher,fridge freezer etc. to DCC for social housing.
As it stands at the moment just a few DCC tenants have moved in. The difference in the complex is already showing with litter and dumping in the underground car park, late night drinking, dogs barking etc. What is this complex going to be like when this block is fully occupied with people that are making noise all night and in bed all day? Is there any point in getting an education, working hard and buying your own place when the people in the neighbouring block get it free? My family member has to pay a mortgage + Eur1500 maintenance fee + property tax. Ireland seems to be a country that rewards people that sit back and do nothing.

Pumpkinseeds

I think we need a band system for social housing. Something where councils could accomodate people by category rather than simply by whether or not they have kids. Ideally people who have lived in the area for many years would be a priority. I'm not on a waiting list for social housing, but I do find the current system ridiculous. Rent allowance is a disgrace.

In my own town there are many examples of people who have left regeneration areas in Limerick to move to a town in another county. I see seperated parents, both getting rent allowance for seperate houses, their in one case, 4 adult children also receiving rent allowance for their 4 seperate houses. 1 parent was in Respond housing. When he gets out of jail he'll be housed or get rent allowance again.

I saw on Sky news today that the UK government is proposing changes to their social housing policies for immigrants and I think we should be doing the same.

Please don't bump old threads which vaguely match your search criteria.

Try the Dublin City forum, read their charter before posting.