Dogs off leash....

boodlesdoodles

My niece once had a dog jump in on top of her when she was a baby in her carrycot. It was an imprinted memory and my sister was forever in fear of dogs after it. My niece is now 30 and 4 years ago decided to buy a dog, who she now completely adores. What caused this change? Admitting she had an unreasonable fear of dogs or situations with dogs she couldn't control. She spent a good few years approaching people she knew with dogs getting to know them etc. She knew she couldn't avoid dogs in normal life and by accepting that, she learned she could cope. It took time but she did it.

OP I don't mean to be dismissive of the dog approaching your child, but your child's fear needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately, you're enabling that fear by your hostile reaction, sorry. I can imagine its hard to see your child in distress but it does sound like their fear could be seriously debilitating. Why not talk to a local rescue, they always need people to walk their dogs, or talk to neighbours with dogs, get your child used to them big or small.

My niece often says (esp when a bit drunk lol) that she's glad she did something about her fear. She has the most gorgeous doggie now, that she has trained to perfection and she even got her Mam liking dogs again. Fear is a terrible thing. Wishing you the best.

falabo

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I was walking thro my local park this morning with my 11yr old who is a little nervous aroud big dogs off leashes.

QUOTE]

you also need to work with your child on this fear or he/will end up being a social freak, afraid of his own shadow. dogs are EVERYWHERE.

star-pants

falabo wrote: »

you also need to work with your child on this fear or he/will end up being a social freak, afraid of his own shadow. dogs are EVERYWHERE.

falabo that is completely uncalled for - a 'social freak' ? there are a lot of people out there with severe phobias about different things, some have social phobias but none of them are 'freaks'. I suggest you choose your words a bit more tactfully next time.

TooManyDogs

Meteoric wrote: »

Only my own experience and I don't know the product, but I've had two dogs who if air is shot at them they react to it by trying to bite the stream of air and/or just getting manic and running around like loons then trying to stop the source, so I'm not sure that would work, not that my dogs ever approached a nervous child but if they did it would have made the situation far worse, it might just be my dogs though.

It's not a stream of air but a short blast accompanied by a hissing noise, I've never seen a dog react by trying to bite the air source because it happens so quickly they normally simply stop what they're doing.

I totally agree with working on OP's childs fear, fear of dogs is paralyzing going through life because of how common dogs dogs are. However I really don't believe that a dog as big as a St Bernard running at a child and then barking in their face would be ok with many or any child. I know my own child who is being raised with 6 dogs, regularily comes with me to the rescue I volunteer for and comes dog training with me would have been absolutely terrified. I feel some of the replies have been a bit harsh to the OP, he was within his rights to ask the dog owner to put the dog on a lead because that's the parks rules, whether or not the same child will meet off lead dogs out on the public road is surely irrevelant to this one incident. It's not his or his child's fault that the dog approached uninvited and then barked into the childs face, if the child wasn't already a bit nervous of big dogs then he'd certainly be after that.

bette

According to the bye laws, dogs must be kept on a leash/lead at all times. Therein lies the problem. The dog owners do not want to respect the bye laws.

Many owners do not want to pick up the mess their dogs leave, especially the big ones...

seamus

TooManyDogs wrote: »

However I really don't believe that a dog as big as a St Bernard running at a child and then barking in their face would be ok with many or any child.

Even someone with a lot of experience with dogs would be initially apprehensive by having a St. Bernard run up and start barking straight at them. They're big dogs, typically 12 or 13 stone in weight.
While most adults would have the wherewithall to evaluate the situation and determine that it's just a dog sounding off, I can imagine any child in same scenario would get a massive fright.

In the OP's case his reaction to the dog wasn't ideal, but perfectly understandable if he has very little experience with dogs.

I don't think there's really much more you can do than you have done except to get in touch directly with whoever manages the park. They can look out for this guy and fine him or warn him if they spot him walking the dogg off-lead.

Your son's fear of dogs is definitely something I would recommend working on, but it's not really all that relevant to this specific incident.

Though in future I would avoid approaching people to ask them to put leads on their dogs. By definition the kind of people who ignore the bye-laws are the same ones who'll give you a load of abuse for daring to tell them what to do.
It may be less stress all around if you just continue on past and show your son that the dog isn't going to come over to him.

mattser

seamus wrote: »

Even someone with a lot of experience with dogs would be initially apprehensive by having a St. Bernard run up and start barking straight at them. They're big dogs, typically 12 or 13 stone in weight.
While most adults would have the wherewithall to evaluate the situation and determine that it's just a dog sounding off, I can imagine any child in same scenario would get a massive fright.

In the OP's case his reaction to the dog wasn't ideal, but perfectly understandable if he has very little experience with dogs.

I don't think there's really much more you can do than you have done except to get in touch directly with whoever manages the park. They can look out for this guy and fine him or warn him if they spot him walking the dogg off-lead.

Your son's fear of dogs is definitely something I would recommend working on, but it's not really all that relevant to this specific incident.

Though in future I would avoid approaching people to ask them to put leads on their dogs. By definition the kind of people who ignore the bye-laws are the same ones who'll give you a load of abuse for daring to tell them what to do.
It may be less stress all around if you just continue on past and show your son that the dog isn't going to come over to him.

I have no problem asking people to put the animal on a leash if it is bothering me while out for a walk or run. Depending on the response, I usually take it from there.
Of course when you have a child in tow it's different, but if someone advised me to deal with the CHILDS problem, well let's say, they had best move away pronto.

tk123

bette wrote: »

According to the bye laws, dogs must be kept on a leash/lead at all times. Therein lies the problem. The dog owners do not want to respect the bye laws.

Many owners do not want to pick up the mess their dogs leave, especially the big ones...

bette wrote: »

According to the bye laws, dogs must be kept on a leash/lead at all times. Therein lies the problem. The dog owners do not want to respect the bye laws.

Many owners do not want to pick up the mess their dogs leave, especially the big ones...

What bye laws?! The OP hasn't said which park this was - how do we know it wasn't during off lead times? If we go by the file names of the pics that appear to be time stamped it was around 9:30 which is off lead time in our park? Also the comment about owners of large dogs not picking up poo is well a load of poo.

I'm not condoning what happened btw but if somebody asked me to put my dog on his lead during off lead times I would most definitely put him on his lead so he doesn't scare the child but I would politely point out that they may be best to avoid the park during these if they are are afraid of dogs walking/running around off lead. I'd also ask if the child would like to come and pet him/see him do a trick etc if it'd help in any way - getting him to do some tricks has helped a few nervous kids in our park.

axle108

The op in question had a child with a fear of large dogs and simply asked for the dog to be leashed. Whats the problem, put the lead on wait till the child has walked out of sight and dog gets to enjoy its freedom again. No confrontation. If the child is coming back, put the lead on.

Your showing understanding of the childs fear, respect for the parents right to remove the threat and hopefully then in time the child can feel comfortable in the presence of large dogs.

As an owner of a large breed iv'e no issue doing the above and find people learn to trust you and the dog.

No big drama or major rehabilitation for the child, just common courtesy.

mattser

axle108 wrote: »

The op in question had a child with a fear of large dogs and simply asked for the dog to be leashed. Whats the problem, put the lead on wait till the child has walked out of sight and dog gets to enjoy its freedom again. No confrontation. If the child is coming back, put the lead on.

Your showing understanding of the childs fear, respect for the parents right to remove the threat and hopefully then in time the child can feel comfortable in the presence of large dogs.

As an owner of a large breed iv'e no issue doing the above and find people learn to trust you and the dog.

No big drama or major rehabilitation for the child, just common courtesy.

And that, as the man says, sums it up entirely. Common courtesy. Great post axle.

07438991

two words - rat poison!!!

07438991

On a serious note, I am have a similar problem with a foreign girl around the corner from me. She has two big dogs that she lets off the lead at the little green at the end of my road. One is a staff or pitbull mastiff and the other is _???_ big. I have a japanese akita (always on a steel choker lead and muzzle) but her dogs try to attack my dog when we walk past! One incident got very serious when I had to hold her staff/pitbull and my dog apart, stuck betwen them as my dogs muzzle was slipping off.

I try to tell her to put a lead on them (an a steel chain a that) but she has very little english. We called to her house and her bf just says ok and no problem.

If a fight broke out, I would have no problem taking the muzzle off my dog so he could defend himself!

Vince32

deleted

Cherry Blossom

07438991 wrote: »

two words - rat poison!!!

Breach of forum charter on two counts:

Advocating cruelty to animals - 1 week ban
Advocating illegal activity - another week ban

Lex Luthor

mickmcl09 wrote: »

A bit of a mountain being made out of a mole hill by the OP IMO.
NOTE: I did say it was at least a mole hill and I'll get to that.

Dog did not make contact with the child.
Who as it happens was accompanied by an adult.
An adult that knows what an alsation and a JRT are, but not a St.Bernard (I find that a little unusual, but possible I suppose).
As a parent, I would have thought that calming the child would be far more effective in dealing with this in the first instance.

Let me put it in perspective to you and I'll presume you are an adult.
6ft dog on all fours weighing 25-30st approaches you and is 2ft from your face barking at you. Lets see how much of a tough guy you are then?

bubblypop wrote: »

maybe your making your son more anxious?
why not try and walk by, at a safe distance, maybe the dog wouldnt have came anywhere near you or your son?

are you sure the way you spoke didnt have anything to do with it?

obviously he should have put the dog on the lead but he did hold onto him and move him.

There was no safe distance. We wanted to walk a certain pathway through the park to where we were going to. The dog was on that path, I have a right to walk that route safely.

Liked I said, he moved him 10ft away and decided to release him again, on the same path we were walking.

tk123 wrote: »

Is there a chance you were walking during off lead times? Our park has 'dogs must be kept on leash' stamped on the ground at all the gates but actually allows them off before 11:00am and last hour before closing?

No...dogs are to be on leashes at ALL TIMES

the_syco wrote: »

Are you a man or a woman? If a man and this were to happen again, I'd advise you to get in front of your kid, stamp your foot, and shout sternly "home" and/or "go away". If you're a woman, scream abuse at the dog. Dogs generally accept commands from people with a masculine tone, but sometimes ignore women, IME.

:rolleyes:

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Sorry OP, but both of these posts would indicate to me that your son definitely has issues with dogs.

I did not once say that my son has an issue with dogs (in general). He has an issue with big dogs off leashes which can be quite understandable. My sister has 3 labradors and he is fine around them. We know several people with dogs and he is fine with them. This dog is exceptionally big, was jumping around and in his eyes is very imposing.

falabo wrote: »

you also need to work with your child on this fear or he/will end up being a social freak, afraid of his own shadow. dogs are EVERYWHERE.

No comment :rolleyes:

seamus wrote: »

Though in future I would avoid approaching people to ask them to put leads on their dogs.

I cant see that happening...there's one thing that pi$$e$ me off about dog owners is that they feel its ok to let their dogs off a leash when it clearly states they should be on a leash in a public park. They need to keep them under control.

tk123 wrote: »

What bye laws?! The OP hasn't said which park this was - how do we know it wasn't during off lead times? If we go by the file names of the pics that appear to be time stamped it was around 9:30 which is off lead time in our park?

correct the time was about 930am Sunday morning. It is Monread Park in Naas and it clearly states on a big sign as you enter the park that dogs are to be on leashes at ALL TIMES

axle108 wrote: »

The op in question had a child with a fear of large dogs and simply asked for the dog to be leashed. Whats the problem, put the lead on wait till the child has walked out of sight and dog gets to enjoy its freedom again. No confrontation. If the child is coming back, put the lead on.

Finally someone with a bit of sense, but he was entering a park where there were approx 30-40 kids training at that time of the morning. As much as they would like to think they could let the dog off the leash it wasnt like the park was deserted

andreac

Sorry ill just correct you on something, no dog weighs 25-30 stone, a St Bernard weighs about 10-12 stone max.

seamus

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I cant see that happening...there's one thing that pi$$e$ me off about dog owners is that they feel its ok to let their dogs off a leash when it clearly states they should be on a leash in a public park. They need to keep them under control.

Enforcing the rules is not your business though. You have no more authority to tell these people to leash their dogs than you do to stop drivers for speeding.

Fine, civic duty and all the rest, but people who will ignore these rules aren't going to give a second thought to your opinion and more often than not they will ignore you or even get angry with you for daring to tell them what to do.

I wouldn't be inclined to be getting into arguments with strangers when you're out for a nice relaxing stroll with your child. Take a photo, report the person. If it's really getting on your wick then go higher up the chain and complain to the local councillors. Make enough noise and they'll post someone there to keep things in check.

Sorry ill just correct you on something, no dog weighs 25-30 stone, a St Bernard weighs about 10-12 stone max.

I think his point is that a St. Bernard appears twice as large to a child than an adult.

doctor evil

Seamus I can understand not wanting to spoil a quiet walk but if someone says something gentely to someone than it may make them think for next time.

mickmcl09

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Let me put it in perspective to you and I'll presume you are an adult.
6ft dog on all fours weighing 25-30st approaches you and is 2ft from your face barking at you. Lets see how much of a tough guy you are then?
Lol, I think that's a bear your describing there. Shouting at a bear is recommended though, if you get the pleasure of facing one, out in the wilderness. I also note that you decided not to take me up on my suggestion that it is indeed not a park, but a green area beside or within a housing development?????

There was no safe distance. We wanted to walk a certain pathway through the park to where we were going to. The dog was on that path, I have a right to walk that route safely.
No sign of any paths in your pictures???

No...dogs are to be on leashes at ALL TIMES
And whose going to enforce that. Don't be so nieve. Control of a dog is what's important, not the leash. The pictures do nothing to suggest an out of control dog, quiet the contrary actually

I did not once say that my son has an issue with dogs (in general). He has an issue with big dogs off leashes which can be quite understandable. My sister has 3 labradors and he is fine around them. We know several people with dogs and he is fine with them. This dog is exceptionally big, was jumping around and in his eyes is very imposing.
Ah, but he has and if you didn't say as much, you insinuated as much in your initial post. The first page of replies to your initial post were all very understanding and indeed helpful and I agree with their sentiments 100%. However, from your most recent post, that's not enough for you. Your posts border on trolling without seeming to be. There's holes all over your initial post judging by your last post.

I cant see that happening...there's one thing that pi$$e$ me off about dog owners is that they feel its ok to let their dogs off a leash when it clearly states they should be on a leash in a public park. They need to keep them under control.
Does it miff you that people get to enjoy their pets. Dogs equate to family members/kids for most owners that I know. Again it's not the leash that matters, it's the control and the pictures don't support it, as the dog is in the heel position in one picture and by the perimeter in the other, which means the owner is between the dog and anyone else in the so called park.

correct the time was about 930am Sunday morning. It is Monread Park in Naas and it clearly states on a big sign as you enter the park that dogs are to be on leashes at ALL TIMES
Does this park have a sign at all entrances? There certainly doesn't seem to be any as you enter this 'green area' from the housing development at the back of your pictures. And no this is not petty. It would be a very exclusive development that would have it's own park attached as distinct from normal green areas me thinks.....???

Finally someone with a bit of sense, but he was entering a park where there were approx 30-40 kids training at that time of the morning. As much as they would like to think they could let the dog off the leash it wasnt like the park was deserted

Again, I question your final quote. That grass is way way too long for kids to train on, seems unusual that's all.
As regards the park not being deserted, as it was far from being deserted as you point out......if the dog was so 'out of control' it would be fairly logical to expect you to mention that the dog was bothering other people, but you didn't. ?????

Dog owners who don't have a leash on their dog bothers you. The size and control of the dog is only a smoke screen.

I don't know if it would be advisable to suggest that you get a dog yourself. This might go a long way in sorting out your issues, but I don't know whether dog owners or dogs themselves bother you more so it might be best if you steer clear of both:(

Lex Luthor

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Again, I question your final quote. That grass is way way too long for kids to train on, seems unusual that's all.
As regards the park not being deserted, as it was far from being deserted as you point out......if the dog was so 'out of control' it would be fairly logical to expect you to mention that the dog was bothering other people, but you didn't. ?????

Dog owners who don't have a leash on their dog bothers you. The size and control of the dog is only a smoke screen.

I don't know if it would be advisable to suggest that you get a dog yourself. This might go a long way in sorting out your issues, but I don't know whether dog owners or dogs themselves bother you more so it might be best if you steer clear of both:(

pick holes in it all you want...I know what I saw, I live near the park, I would like my kids to walk through it without being harassed by big dogs
I have no bother in admitting that dog owners who dont leash their dogs and allow them to run up and jump all over me and my kids annoys me...this particular instance the dog was larger than your average dog, so if I felt it necessary to ask the owner to leash it, then thats my business

I'm not doing it every time I see a dog off a leash, but it was the total inconsideration of this particular owner that ticked me off

The only reason you see the dog in the heel position is that the owner started doing this when he saw me taking a picture of the dog off the leash

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Does this park have a sign at all entrances? There certainly doesn't seem to be any as you enter this 'green area' from the housing development at the back of your pictures. And no this is not petty. It would be a very exclusive development that would have it's own park attached as distinct from normal green areas me thinks.....???

no but the sign was at the entrance the dog owner entered the park in clear view

The park is situated in between many housing developments...its not just exclusive to a particualr housing development and all these housing developments have small path way entrances into the park at various locations

seamus

Lex Luthor wrote: »

no but the sign was at the entrance the dog owner entered the park in clear view

I had a quick look on Google maps to see if you could see the actual sign. You can, but you can't read it. But to be fair it does seem to be posted very obviously at every entrance point to the park.

So there's no excuse for any owner not seeing the rules.

star-pants

Can users please read the full thread before reporting posts that have already been dealt with.

Lex Luthor

seamus wrote: »

I had a quick look on Google maps to see if you could see the actual sign. You can, but you can't read it. But to be fair it does seem to be posted very obviously at every entrance point to the park.

So there's no excuse for any owner not seeing the rules.

as you say, its not clear from Google maps but as you can see from the pictures, the signage is approx. 10ft high at the main park entrance.

In picture #1 I've marked the sign in red and shown in yellow where the incident happened so its in plain view

Pic #3 shows the approx location of where I took the pictures so it can appear like its in a housing estate due to the houses to the side

There is also a big childrens playground situated in the park so which is probably why there is an enforcement of the leash at all times

To be honest I wasnt aware they had signs at every possible entrance as there are many, but they could be smaller ones

I must have a look down there tomorrow and see if thats the case

seamus

I was actually referring to the smaller white signs with the picture of the dog in a red circle. You can see it in your third picture. This appears to be posted at every entrance, though I'm only assuming that it refers to keeping dogs on leads.

Lex Luthor

seamus wrote: »

I was actually referring to the smaller white signs with the picture of the dog in a red circle. You can see it in your third picture. This appears to be posted at every entrance, though I'm only assuming that it refers to keeping dogs on leads.

you're right, they could well be referring to keeping dogs on leashes aswell. In that case they are at all pedestrian entrances into the park which there are quite a few

But in saying that they have boxes for the litter bags stuck to each one of these signs and they dont seem to be used either by the majority of dog walkers in the park so why would they take any notice of the leash request :rolleyes:

Salt001

To be quite honest I think your only problem is that you met an extremely rude dog owner.
Apart from not automatically putting his dog on the lead when he saw you and your child,he also then ignored your request that he do so.
I have a medium sized dog,very friendly,very well behaved but i would always put her back on her lead when i see someone approaching.She would only be off leash in the forest or on the beach but she goes back on because I dont know how the person approaching feels about dogs.
Why should we spoil their walk if they are wary of dogs.
This is why we have beaches banning dogs etc.
During the height of the summer I won't take my dog to the beach because i know it will be full of parents and kids some of whom may not be dog fans.
We wait till the evening till the beaches are quiet. This is called having some consideration for other people.
Unfortunately not all dog owners have it :mad:.
These would be the same crowd that don't know the pooper scooper has been invented.