Ireland's 'rape culture'

token101

theg81der wrote: »

Trying to look at statistic to see what I think about this. While I think rape is far more common than most people think I think this article is rubbish. Heres somethings I did find attached and linked :

http://www.womensaid.ie/policy/natintstats.html

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=8520


Statistics I think are not a great measure of this problem. The people I know that have been the victim of rape or sexual assault have never reported it formally or in the majority of cases even sought counselling. I have personally been the victim of attempted rape several times, even by a friends of a friend once after my friend saying "what was I making a big deal about" our friendship quickly ended.

Given that the majority of sexual assault or rape seems to be domestic, perpetrated by people known to the victim, it can only be assumed that they are not thought to be a treat by others or to their victims previously. And if the formal allegation is never made people still remain to think they are upstanding members of the community in some instance.

I think normal people expect the face of rape or sexual assault to be a monster but most of the time it is the bloke around the corner or your team mate/drinking buddy.

I do not think anyone is nieve enough thou to think that every man is a threat and this would be a very sad way to live your life. Sadly for victims they probably do think this way as that man they trusted - their friend, partner, uncle - has vioated them in this way that has forever changed them, even if no one else ever knows.

Too right they do. The nature of rape, the fact that is almost always one word against another, makes it difficult to prove, which is unfortunate, but there's no way you could really change that. But everybody should be innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. That's the law and if that ever changes we might aswell give up.

Jaxxy

token101 wrote: »

bluewolf wrote: »

like this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77045990&postcount=178

But there's a complaints system there for that? She didn't report it and left it go. Her blowing up like that, that's her own fault, not the abuse, but for letting it get to that point. The minute she started getting **** she should have complained. That's harrassment and shouldn't have to take it but she has to take a proactive stand and sort it.

But it happens on both sides. There's a lad at work who's constantly getting groped by the older women in the office. He just shrugs it off, but they're groping him half the time. You can see he's unbelievably uncomfortable. Now, think of it like this: If that girl above and the lad from my work place both went to HR and complained, whose story is likely to get laughed at first?

Eh, no. Working in HR I can assure you that your colleague would not "get laughed at". Nobody with half a brain would laugh at such a complaint, not unless they wanted to invite legal action against the company.

Lady Chuckles

token101 wrote: »

But there's a complaints system there for that? She didn't report it and left it go. Her blowing up like that, that's her own fault, not the abuse, but for letting it get to that point. The minute she started getting **** she should have complained. That's harrassment and shouldn't have to take it but she has to take a proactive stand and sort it.

token101 wrote: »

There's a lad at work who's constantly getting groped by the older women in the office. He just shrugs it off, but they're groping him half the time. You can see he's unbelievably uncomfortable. Now, think of it like this: If that girl above and the lad from my work place both went to HR and complained, whose story is likely to get laughed at first?

Jeez, thanks for that one... :rolleyes:
I'm sure lots of people are stronger than I am and would know instantly how to deal with it. But like you also stated in the example with the man, it's not always easy. (Nevermind it's equally hard for women to tell the boss what happens.)

My boss at the time, btw, referred to me as "honey" in a very belittling way and I had very little desire talking to him about how the man was treating me. That said boss would've most likely laughed at me and told me it's just fun and games. He was a total idiot...

My own fault. Hah!
If you're putting it like that, it's yer man's fault he's letting the old women grope him. He should just go report it. Like you said to me, he "has to take a proactive stand and sort it."

Not that I agree with any form of harassment - no matter who it happens to.

mikemac1

TheZohan wrote: »

I think the journal.ie has jumped the shark.

There's my new phrase for today

Jumping the shark is an idiom used to describe the moment in the evolution of a television show when it begins a decline in quality that is beyond recovery.

Honestly never heard that before, had to look it up

theg81der

token101 wrote: »

Too right they do. The nature of rape, the fact that is almost always one word against another, makes it difficult to prove, which is unfortunate, but there's no way you could really change that. But everybody should be innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. That's the law and if that ever changes we might aswell give up.

There in lies the problem doesn`t in. People are always very unwilling to believe that bloke they like and know is a rapist, even in the face of evidence or reasonable certainty. Just like you can`t get some women to see their fella is cheating even if they are looking at evidence that is thought by other to meet there standard of proof. In the case of rape allegation the standard of proof is no doubt higher and apart from camera or eye witness evidence - which the extremely rarely is, you won`t get anyone to believe it.

Dravokivich

FTGFOP wrote: »

You're wondering if she's upset that she hasn't been raped? You're a fucking moron.

It was in jest, using a blunt tone in response to emphasise how ridiculas hers was. No more was intended by that.

Mr. Presentable

Lamar Limited Summerhouse wrote: »

In fairness, that's not exactly true. Have you seen the thread on how a rape victim was treated in court recently?

All due respect Lamar Limited Summerhouse, she was not a rape victim, she was an accuser who then failed to show in Court. Those she accused were "not guilty"

Re OP, the journal.ie is aimed low. The piece is opinion dressed as news; a style learned from Independent House I imagine.

Kerrigooney

Feeona wrote: »

.

You`ve edited 7 (I think) posts to this. What does it mean? I don`t understand. Forgive my ignorance.

token101

Lady Chuckles wrote: »

Jeez, thanks for that one... :rolleyes:
I'm sure lots of people are stronger than I am and would know instantly how to deal with it. But like you also stated in the example with the man, it's not always easy. (Nevermind it's equally hard for women to tell the boss what happens.)

My boss at the time, btw, referred to me as "honey" in a very belittling way and I had very little desire talking to him about how the man was treating me. That said boss would've most likely laughed at me and told me it's just fun and games. He was a total idiot...

My own fault. Hah!
If you're putting it like that, it's yer man's fault he's letting the old women grope him. He should just go report it. Like you said to me, he "has to take a proactive stand and sort it."

Not that I agree with any form of harassment - no matter who it happens to.

Never said it was easy, and he definitely should, but you said you got laughed at, he probably feels the same and ignores it. Until he flips some day and tells them to f*** off. But that's never going to fix the problem. I never said it was fair or right or that I agreed with it, I said you should have reported it that's all.

Canis Lupus

Kerrigooney wrote: »

You`ve edited 7 (I think) posts to this. What does it mean? I don`t understand. Forgive my ignorance.

Usually people do that when they want their argument removed. I havent really read the thread but often done by someone who loses :P

Lady Chuckles

token101 wrote: »

Never said it was easy, and he definitely should, but you said you got laughed at, he probably feels the same and ignores it. Until he flips some day and tells them to f*** off. But that's never going to fix the problem. I never said it was fair or right or that I agreed with it, I said you should have reported it that's all.

I should have, but I didn't know what to do. Just like the man in your example doesn't know what to do. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and say these things don't occur anymore or that when they happen you should report them immediately (as if that's an easy thing to do).

However, the way you phrased your last post gave me the impression that it was my own fault that I got angry about the abuse because I let it go on for long... Whereas the guy you're talking about is more of a victim who has no one to go to and they'd all laugh at him if he did report it.

It struck me as incredibly unfair. Women feel the same insecurity about reporting abuse as well. I know I did.

Either way I hope all the groping ladies goes away. No one should have to put up with abuse.

Lady Chuckles

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Usually people do that when they want their argument removed. I havent really read the thread but often done by someone who loses :P

You should read this thread so... :P
You can't be a feminist without getting your head chopped off. I understand her completely.

Besides, no one ever wins in a boards argument. Especially not in AH

Logical Fallacy

“She’s a barber,” my friend explained. “If she wears a dress to work, men will look at her and make comments and come on to her. It’s unprofessional and irresponsible of her to wear a dress in a male environment.”
His stance essentially pre-blamed his girlfriend for any unwanted attention she might receive, while excusing possible perpetrators as not being in control of their own rampaging desires. I tried explaining this, but no amount of counter-argument could make him change his mind. This kind of mentality, which defines rape culture so perfectly I wonder how I didn’t make it up, does a disservice to men as well as to women. Are we to believe that all men are so in thrall to their own lust that they can’t help overpowering attractive females? Are we to believe that rape happens because women are just too darn sexy?

I think the most contentious line that is being discussed here is only contentious because it is being taken out of context.


I light of the reason she used the line...I have no problem with it and she is spot on to use it as an example offshoot of the thinking displayed by the man she references.


It's not a great article by any means but people seem to be getting hung up on a non-issue in my opinion.

Irish Guitarist

Some people dislike the notion of feminism because they believe that women already have equal rights in our society, and certainly, in a legislative sense, we’re coming along nicely. We’re not there yet, but I can see how people who don’t have direct knowledge of such topics as pay equality or abortion would think that we are. But as a society, we’re a long way yet from treating each other with equal respect, regardless of gender. This is where “rape culture” sticks its ugly head back in.

I've never understood how anyone can bring abortion into an argument about equality. When scientists come up with a way of impregnating men who can then legally have abortions it might be a valid point, but not at the moment.

Dravokivich

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I think the most contentious line that is being discussed here is only contentious because it is being taken out of context.

Dam context... you win again! :mad:

Doc Ruby

token101 wrote: »

The nature of rape, the fact that is almost always one word against another, makes it difficult to prove, which is unfortunate, but there's no way you could really change that.

Unfortunately true. An 18 year old having sex with her 16 year old boyfriend is technically rape. People get drunk and do stupid things on both sides. Emotionally unstable people or those with an axe to grind can cry rape just for the drama or for revenge. There are few crimes with such a large grey area.

The last time I was in a night club I had women grabbing my bum, kissing me, offering to "steal my drink", and so on - all of these could be considered a form of assault if I was of that sort of mindset. I'm not of course, I was delighted especially being a more mature gentleman.

Equally of course there are few crimes of as vile a nature when someone forces themselves on an unwilling person, and its my shoe up the hole of anyone who says women were "asking for it" by dressing in sexy outfits. But to say Ireland has a rape culture is beyond ridiculous, its Kevin Myers style trolling, raising visions of casual rape and huddled groups of women rushing from streetlight to streetlight. That's not to say we couldn't do with some improvements in reporting and court procedures among other areas naturally.

DarkJager

The journal is seriously gone downhill to the point of being one if the last sites I'd read for news. It's akin to some sort of feminist soapbox now, and incoherent feminist ranting at that. Today alone they have this article (which reads like it was written by a pseudo intellectual teenager) and another about a verbal abuse campaign which neglected to mention that men are also victims of it until the comments beat the author into a ninja edit of it.

Dyr

DarkJager wrote: »

The journal is seriously gone downhill to the point of being one if the last sites I'd read for news. It's akin to some sort of feminist soapbox now, and incoherent feminist ranting at that. Today alone they have this article (which reads like it was written by a pseudo intellectual teenager) and another about a verbal abuse campaign which neglected to mention that men are also victims of it until the comments beat the author into a ninja edit of it.

I think people mainly go there now for the punch up in the comments section...

previous user

Lamar Limited Summerhouse wrote: »

In fairness, that's not exactly true. Have you seen the thread on how a rape victim was treated in court recently? Not very sympathetic. I can't imagine a paedophile getting this kind of reception after a conviction either:

disgusting

jimthemental

Lamar Limited Summerhouse wrote: »

In fairness, that's not exactly true. Have you seen the thread on how a rape victim was treated in court recently? Not very sympathetic. I can't imagine a paedophile getting this kind of reception after a conviction either:

That judge is not representative of the rest of the country. I've seen a few articles on justice Carney and I have absolutely no respect for the man. You could say he's morally bankrupt. That is the system and some questionable decisions. Our culture is different.

wonderfulname

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I've never understood how anyone can bring abortion into an argument about equality. When scientists come up with a way of impregnating men who can then legally have abortions it might be a valid point, but not at the moment.

I think it's the fact that in that regard (note just that, I'm not talking about parental rights here), abortion is an issue which only affects women but yet anti abortion laws were put in place by men. That's my impression anyway, the idea that a man or woman should be allowed do what they wish with their own body, equal does not mean same.

Millicent

wonderfulname wrote: »

I think it's the fact that in that regard (note just that, I'm not talking about parental rights here), abortion is an issue which only affects women but yet anti abortion laws were put in place by men. That's my impression anyway, the idea that a man or woman should be allowed do what they wish with their own body, equal does not mean same.

No, the point on abortion in Ireland is that we are still waiting on legislation twenty years after the X Case, so that a woman who is in danger of dying from complications or suicide must STILL travel to England to save her own life and a doctor here could still be prosecuted for doing what is necessary to save a woman's life. Apparently in Ireland still, a woman's life is less important that the foetus that might kill her's life.

up for anything

Gummy Panda wrote: »

That is said in jobs but it's usually done by the tard no one likes.

token101 wrote: »

And it's said to men aswell. It's meant as a joke, at least where I work anyway.

Ah so that makes it perfectly alright then?

spacecookie555

Reading this thread im so shocked by how people can still be so ignorant to whats going on around them in the real world. Women have equal rights, my "imaginary" bollix! I honestly couldnt care less if people call me a feminist, I dont burn my bra and knickers or anything but I am confident in my opinion on this matter.
Women are just expected to put up with day to day dislikes, whether its having someone stare down their top or uncomfortable rape jokes. In fairness I wouldnt expect a man to laugh at a joke about a man in prison getting gang raped but a woman is a dry arse if she doesnt laugh at an anecdote of a woman being violently assaulted. Different strokes for different fokes I guess... NOT!!
Now I dont want to tar every man with the same brush, my boyfriend for example detests rape jokes, he just thinks theyre in very bad taste, as do most of my male friends, it just seems to be quite a small minority of men who still have this "head up the hole" attitude.
Unequaility is so obvious in every way but the one I really find quite shocking is the way women dress is to be dictated. So if a man wears a pair of shorts and no top during summer I cant stop myself from staring at his crotch or trying to cop a feel of his moobs, he would think I was CRAZY!! But yet a man cant help himself looking down a womans top or slapping her ass, so your telling me you have no control over your own body and it just moves of its own accord, you would want to get that checked sweetheart.
Also I read in the article about your ones friend blaming his wife for dressing provocatively, like what?? My boyfriend loves when I dress sexy, he says he loves to show me off, and if I get any really inappropriate attention he sorts it out verbally like a real man should, because why I am expected to defend myself against a man whos twice my height and width and a hundred times stronger than me just because I wore a short skirt??
I should have the right to walk butt naked down the street if I feel like it and not be "expecting to be raped" as the minority would have you think.
Well theres just a snippet of my opinion on the matter, hope I didnt ruffle too many feathers... Ah I lie I do haha xxx

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Women are just expected to put up with day to day dislikes, whether its having someone stare down their top or uncomfortable rape jokes.

No they aren't.

You are lying to yourself.

Mr. Loverman

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

No they aren't.

You are lying to yourself.

Oh well that's ok then, anyone who has a problem is delusional

glad we have you here to tell us what we're all thinking

Mr. Loverman

bluewolf wrote: »

Oh well that's ok then, anyone who has a problem is delusional

glad we have you here to tell us what we're all thinking

Women are not expected to put up with people looking down their tops or rape jokes.

I'm sorry you want to believe otherwise, but it simply isn't true.

Of course there will be some scumbags who are rude or obnoxious, but they are not every male in Ireland.

Chuchoter

I have to say the level of posting in this thread is pretty low. That article was very poorly written, but aside from that I think it is very true that Ireland like most countries has a rape culture (a term not well explained in that article).

A rape culture is one in which the majority of the blame for rape is placed on the woman, but this will probably only jump out at women. This isn't to fault the men of Ireland, its not really relevant to your day to day life so I don't expect you to realize it. Women are taught not to be raped, but men aren't taught to not rape. We are taught never to walk alone at night, never go to the bathroom alone, learn self defense, don't wear 'revealing' clothing, don't get drunk, don't fall asleep, be on guard if you're alone with a man you don't know, keep an eye on where on a path your walking is there an alley you could be dragged into, don't make eye contact. The list goes on for days and for most women its so ingrained in us we don't even realize we're doing it.
What do men, in your every day life to not get raped? Is it right that if a woman is raped, someone somewhere is going oh why was she walking there, why was she wearing a short skirt, why was she drinking. There is a reason the rate of reporting for rape is so low. All that happens is the rapist goes free and the woman lives with the shame forever. There's your rape culture

Chucky the tree

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Reading this thread im so shocked by how people can still be so ignorant to whats going on around them in the real world. Women have equal rights, my "imaginary" bollix! I honestly couldnt care less if people call me a feminist, I dont burn my bra and knickers or anything but I am confident in my opinion on this matter.
Women are just expected to put up with day to day dislikes, whether its having someone stare down their top or uncomfortable rape jokes. In fairness I wouldnt expect a man to laugh at a joke about a man in prison getting gang raped but a woman is a dry arse if she doesnt laugh at an anecdote of a woman being violently assaulted. Different strokes for different fokes I guess... NOT!!
Now I dont want to tar every man with the same brush, my boyfriend for example detests rape jokes, he just thinks theyre in very bad taste, as do most of my male friends, it just seems to be quite a small minority of men who still have this "head up the hole" attitude.
Unequaility is so obvious in every way but the one I really find quite shocking is the way women dress is to be dictated. So if a man wears a pair of shorts and no top during summer I cant stop myself from staring at his crotch or trying to cop a feel of his moobs, he would think I was CRAZY!! But yet a man cant help himself looking down a womans top or slapping her ass, so your telling me you have no control over your own body and it just moves of its own accord, you would want to get that checked sweetheart.
Also I read in the article about your ones friend blaming his wife for dressing provocatively, like what?? My boyfriend loves when I dress sexy, he says he loves to show me off, and if I get any really inappropriate attention he sorts it out verbally like a real man should, because why I am expected to defend myself against a man whos twice my height and width and a hundred times stronger than me just because I wore a short skirt??
I should have the right to walk butt naked down the street if I feel like it and not be "expecting to be raped" as the minority would have you think.
Well theres just a snippet of my opinion on the matter, hope I didnt ruffle too many feathers... Ah I lie I do haha xxx

Jesus, where to begin with this laughable crap.


- I've never once heard of a man be offended by male rape jokes and I've never heard a man ask people to stop joking about male rape as it was insensitive.

- I've never heard a man go topless and then call a women crazy for staring at him either, it's pretty much the reason he goes topless tbh.

- Lol, so your boyfriend likes it when you dress up sexy just because he can show you off like some piece of meat or trophy? Wow, such a lovely non-sexist boyfriend you have there, you're so lucky. :pac: Still though, at least he hates rape jokes. :rolleyes:

Mr. Loverman

Chuchoter wrote: »

I think it is very true that Ireland like most countries has a rape culture (a term not well explained in that article).

A rape culture is one in which the majority of the blame for rape is placed on the woman

Absolute rubbish.

Maybe I have grown up in a bubble (I'm 33) but I don't know anyone who thinks the rape victim is mostly to blame.

It simply isn't true.

Yes, rape is a complex crime to prosecute, and yes, the courts could do a lot better, but that is not the same as the victim being mostly to blame or that we have a "rape culture".

Btw the prosecution and court issues affect men too.

Dudess

The Congo is a rape culture - where actual rape is pretty much a day-to-day reality. Pakistan, the aforementioned South Africa...
The "Don't dress sexy or you'll get raped" stuff is not a culture IMO, it's just morons being morons, and they're easily avoided. And I've never heard anyone with a modicum of intelligence saying a woman is to blame for being raped.

Chuchoter

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.

Those are some great arguing skills there arguing man. I better go make some sandwiches so you can keep coming up with these gems.

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

And I've never heard anyone with a modicum of intelligence saying a woman is to blame for being raped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8515592.stm
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=13288

spacecookie555

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

bluewolf wrote: »

Oh well that's ok then, anyone who has a problem is delusional

glad we have you here to tell us what we're all thinking

Women are not expected to put up with people looking down their tops or rape jokes.

I'm sorry you want to believe otherwise, but it simply isn't true.

Of course there will be some scumbags who are rude or obnoxious, but they are not every male in Ireland.

Which is exactly why I stated that its a minority, I know theres some fantastic gentlemen and they far outnumber the others.
And em MR.loverman, I take it you dont have breasts... Well I do, im a 34G, 100% natural of course, it runs in my family, and a size 12 to boot. Theyre HUGE, now im not going to lie, even women look down my top, but some men do look as if theyre about to try and climb inside my top which makes me very uncomfortable. And why should I feel uncomfortable when theyre the ones with the breastfeeding issues you know??

spacecookie555

H

Chucky the tree wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Reading this thread im so shocked by how people can still be so ignorant to whats going on around them in the real world. Women have equal rights, my "imaginary" bollix! I honestly couldnt care less if people call me a feminist, I dont burn my bra and knickers or anything but I am confident in my opinion on this matter.
Women are just expected to put up with day to day dislikes, whether its having someone stare down their top or uncomfortable rape jokes. In fairness I wouldnt expect a man to laugh at a joke about a man in prison getting gang raped but a woman is a dry arse if she doesnt laugh at an anecdote of a woman being violently assaulted. Different strokes for different fokes I guess... NOT!!
Now I dont want to tar every man with the same brush, my boyfriend for example detests rape jokes, he just thinks theyre in very bad taste, as do most of my male friends, it just seems to be quite a small minority of men who still have this "head up the hole" attitude.
Unequaility is so obvious in every way but the one I really find quite shocking is the way women dress is to be dictated. So if a man wears a pair of shorts and no top during summer I cant stop myself from staring at his crotch or trying to cop a feel of his moobs, he would think I was CRAZY!! But yet a man cant help himself looking down a womans top or slapping her ass, so your telling me you have no control over your own body and it just moves of its own accord, you would want to get that checked sweetheart.
Also I read in the article about your ones friend blaming his wife for dressing provocatively, like what?? My boyfriend loves when I dress sexy, he says he loves to show me off, and if I get any really inappropriate attention he sorts it out verbally like a real man should, because why I am expected to defend myself against a man whos twice my height and width and a hundred times stronger than me just because I wore a short skirt??
I should have the right to walk butt naked down the street if I feel like it and not be "expecting to be raped" as the minority would have you think.
Well theres just a snippet of my opinion on the matter, hope I didnt ruffle too many feathers... Ah I lie I do haha xxx

Jesus, where to begin with this laughable crap.


- I've never once heard of a man be offended by male rape jokes and I've never heard a man ask people to stop joking about male rape as it was insensitive.

- I've never heard a man go topless and then call a women crazy for staring at him either, it's pretty much the reason he goes topless tbh.

- Lol, so your boyfriend likes it when you dress up sexy just because he can show you off like some piece of meat or trophy? Wow, such a lovely non-sexist boyfriend you have there, you're so lucky. :pac: Still though, at least he hates rape jokes. :rolleyes:

Haha hes the best thanks, I really am a lucky lady

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Which is exactly why I stated that its a minority, I know theres some fantastic gentlemen and they far outnumber the others.
And em MR.loverman, I take it you dont have breasts... Well I do, im a 34G, 100% natural of course, it runs in my family, and a size 12 to boot. Theyre HUGE, now im not going to lie, even women look down my top, but some men do look as if theyre about to try and climb inside my top which makes me very uncomfortable. And why should I feel uncomfortable when theyre the ones with the breastfeeding issues you know??

But you're not expected to tolerate it.

spacecookie555

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Which is exactly why I stated that its a minority, I know theres some fantastic gentlemen and they far outnumber the others.
And em MR.loverman, I take it you dont have breasts... Well I do, im a 34G, 100% natural of course, it runs in my family, and a size 12 to boot. Theyre HUGE, now im not going to lie, even women look down my top, but some men do look as if theyre about to try and climb inside my top which makes me very uncomfortable. And why should I feel uncomfortable when theyre the ones with the breastfeeding issues you know??

But you're not expected to tolerate it.

Haha well im hardly going to poke his eyes out or kick him in the nuts! :rolleyes:

Roadtrippin

That article is an interesting read, even if it was mostly anecdotal and lacked actual evidence. At least it got people thinking and talking about it.

I think the term "rape culture" was the wrong choice for what she was trying to criticise.
I do agree with her regarding the points she made on feminism - people are misinformed about what it means to be a feminist and often there will be stupid comments made about someone saying they think of themselves as feminist. All that feminism stands for is gender equality. Not saying that men and women are the same but that men and women should have the same rights.
What she meant with rape culture, I think, was mostly the fact that some people still think it's ok to make sexist or rape jokes, i.e. inappropriate jokes, at work, for example. Some people still think it's ok to make unwanted advances towards women in a nightclub, e.g. grope their behinds. Some people still think if a girl is dressing provocatively she's to blame for any unwanted attention... So, maybe rape culture was not the right term, but I would agree that objectification of women is still going a bit too far on some occasions.

DonQuay1

token101 wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-accept-it-rape-culture-exists/

I just came across this in the journal. Now, whilst I feel the journal is the Daily Mail with a slightly nicer design, I was still kind of surprised to see this. Couple of choice comments:

"There’s no denying that Ireland has a rape culture. Am I being deliberately provocative by stating that? God, no."

"What would the abandonment of rape culture mean, anyway? It’d hardly be a great loss. If women were no longer afraid to walk alone at night, in case their mere feminine presence invited violent assault."

"Are we to believe that all men are so in thrall to their own lust that they can’t help overpowering attractive females?"

I thought it was the biggest load of incoherent bollocks I've ever read and fairly offensive to men to be honest. I think she's essentially trying to paint every man as a groping, squatting chimp who needs to be educated by luminary feminists like her good self. Any thoughts?

Complete bulls/t!!!

You get that just by reading the 'anecdote' in the first paragraph. I mean - that rubbish has been quoted all over the internet for years .... but never proven. It's always '... my friends mother / aunt / neighbours granny ... told me that when she was in school ... ', etc, etc, etc.
That anecdote is on a par with the one about the 1950s housewife and how she is supposed to treat her hubby after he comes home from a hard day at the office. You all know that one. That one was ALLEGEDLY ... taught in 1950s home economics classes of the time - but in reality - a proven hoax and a joke!
http://webabout.com/jokes/Women%20Bashing/goodwife.shtml
http://www.ehow.com/how_4551897_be-s-housewife.html
Google it. No proof it ever existed ... just a joke that went viral and then became 'fact'.

Like the anecdote in this 'so called' journalist, Lisa McInerney's first paragraph. Frankly - if you're gonna quote a falsity as a fact ... then you can disregard anything EVER written by that 'alleged' journalist as you're guaranteed it'll be sloppy, un-researched, untruthful and badly written. Scroll to the bottom of that article and read some more badly researched cr a p that she allegedly wrote that could be attributed to a 6 year old child!!

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Haha well im hardly going to poke his eyes out or kick him in the nuts! :rolleyes:

Something happening and something being tolerated are not the same thing.

Yes, some guys will look at my ass.
Yes, some women will look at my ass.

These things happen but it is my choice whether I tolerate them or not.

I'm sorry you feel violence is the only answer.

44leto

I think the article makes a few good points, but overall I think it is bollox. There are rapes in Ireland but there is no rape culture in Ireland. Rape is absolutely unacceptable here and it is never cajoled or taken lightly among any of the men I know. I have never heard anyone casually say something like, Jaysus lads I had a great roide last night, I seen this girl in a mini walking in the park and I just went for her, it was great, and if I did, my response would not be "fair fuks to you".

There are men who rape, as there are men who shoot people and who have guns, but Ireland does not have a gun culture. As for the piece about the hairdresser getting ogled in her dress, is that really a problem for women. There is a solution, a solution imposed by men in Iran and Afghanistan the hijab and ironically these places do have a rape culture.

You will not change the male sexuality to look, even advertisers know this and you wont change a women's either.

But I agree with the journalist views on the backlash whenever a women mentions feminism. I do see it on this site all the time. Feminism has been a very good force for good and the job is hardly complete.

tvercetti

token101 wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-accept-it-rape-culture-exists/

I just came across this in the journal. Now, whilst I feel the journal is the Daily Mail with a slightly nicer design, I was still kind of surprised to see this. Couple of choice comments:

"There’s no denying that Ireland has a rape culture. Am I being deliberately provocative by stating that? God, no."

"What would the abandonment of rape culture mean, anyway? It’d hardly be a great loss. If women were no longer afraid to walk alone at night, in case their mere feminine presence invited violent assault."

"Are we to believe that all men are so in thrall to their own lust that they can’t help overpowering attractive females?"

I thought it was the biggest load of incoherent bollocks I've ever read and fairly offensive to men to be honest. I think she's essentially trying to paint every man as a groping, squatting chimp who needs to be educated by luminary feminists like her good self. Any thoughts?

Do you know what she needs OP??







A Good Telling Off!! (sick minds, the lot of you)

spacecookie555

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Haha well im hardly going to poke his eyes out or kick him in the nuts! :rolleyes:

Something happening and something being tolerated are not the same thing.

Yes, some guys will look at my ass.
Yes, some women will look at my ass.

These things happen but it is my choice whether I tolerate them or not.

I'm sorry you feel violence is the only answer.

Haha troll alert!! You funny man you haha, I must say thanks though you do give me a good giggle with your posts XD xxx

MagicSean

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Reading this thread im so shocked by how people can still be so ignorant to whats going on around them in the real world. Women have equal rights, my "imaginary" bollix! I honestly couldnt care less if people call me a feminist, I dont burn my bra and knickers or anything but I am confident in my opinion on this matter.
Women are just expected to put up with day to day dislikes, whether its having someone stare down their top or uncomfortable rape jokes. In fairness I wouldnt expect a man to laugh at a joke about a man in prison getting gang raped but a woman is a dry arse if she doesnt laugh at an anecdote of a woman being violently assaulted. Different strokes for different fokes I guess... NOT!!

Do you live in some convent? Women are as bad as men when it comes to sexually explicit jokes. Try getting out more. Personally I don't care what people joke about as long as they aren't aimed directly at someone in an attempt to humiliate or intimidate them.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Now I dont want to tar every man with the same brush, my boyfriend for example detests rape jokes, he just thinks theyre in very bad taste, as do most of my male friends, it just seems to be quite a small minority of men who still have this "head up the hole" attitude.

Sounds like your boyfriend just wants to get laid. And his mates are helping him.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Unequaility is so obvious in every way but the one I really find quite shocking is the way women dress is to be dictated. So if a man wears a pair of shorts and no top during summer I cant stop myself from staring at his crotch or trying to cop a feel of his moobs, he would think I was CRAZY!! But yet a man cant help himself looking down a womans top or slapping her ass, so your telling me you have no control over your own body and it just moves of its own accord, you would want to get that checked sweetheart.

Do you even go out on a Saturday night? Women are like sexual predators on the hunt for cock. Why else would they go to Coppers? Have you been out on a Halloween night? Women can't dress as anything unless it has the word sexy or slutty in front of it.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Also I read in the article about your ones friend blaming his wife for dressing provocatively, like what?? My boyfriend loves when I dress sexy, he says he loves to show me off, and if I get any really inappropriate attention he sorts it out verbally like a real man should, because why I am expected to defend myself against a man whos twice my height and width and a hundred times stronger than me just because I wore a short skirt??

Your boyfriend likes to dress you up sexy so he can defend you "like a real man"? Is he a caveman by any chance?

spacecookie555 wrote: »

I should have the right to walk butt naked down the street if I feel like it and not be "expecting to be raped" as the minority would have you think.

Unfortunately rapists tend to care very little about a womans rights and would attack you regardless.

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Haha troll alert!! You funny man you haha, I must say thanks though you do give me a good giggle with your posts XD xxx

Not a troll.

I just understand people who have extreme (and unreasonable) viewpoints on things have anger issues.

Dudess

Jaxxy wrote: »

Eh, no. Working in HR I can assure you that your colleague would not "get laughed at". Nobody with half a brain would laugh at such a complaint, not unless they wanted to invite legal action against the company.

And if anyone were to laugh at a guy's claim of being sexually harassed by a woman, it would be men mostly doing the laughing - e.g. "You should be grateful, I'd love to get sexually harassed" and similar shyte that you see here regularly.

spacecookie555

MagicSean wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Reading this thread im so shocked by how people can still be so ignorant to whats going on around them in the real world. Women have equal rights, my "imaginary" bollix! I honestly couldnt care less if people call me a feminist, I dont burn my bra and knickers or anything but I am confident in my opinion on this matter.
Women are just expected to put up with day to day dislikes, whether its having someone stare down their top or uncomfortable rape jokes. In fairness I wouldnt expect a man to laugh at a joke about a man in prison getting gang raped but a woman is a dry arse if she doesnt laugh at an anecdote of a woman being violently assaulted. Different strokes for different fokes I guess... NOT!!

Do you live in some convent? Women are as bad as men when it comes to sexually explicit jokes. Try getting out more. Personally I don't care what people joke about as long as they aren't aimed directly at someone in an attempt to humiliate or intimidate them.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Now I dont want to tar every man with the same brush, my boyfriend for example detests rape jokes, he just thinks theyre in very bad taste, as do most of my male friends, it just seems to be quite a small minority of men who still have this "head up the hole" attitude.

Sounds like your boyfriend just wants to get laid. And his mates are helping him.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Unequaility is so obvious in every way but the one I really find quite shocking is the way women dress is to be dictated. So if a man wears a pair of shorts and no top during summer I cant stop myself from staring at his crotch or trying to cop a feel of his moobs, he would think I was CRAZY!! But yet a man cant help himself looking down a womans top or slapping her ass, so your telling me you have no control over your own body and it just moves of its own accord, you would want to get that checked sweetheart.

Do you even go out on a Saturday night? Women are like sexual predators on the hunt for cock. Why else would they go to Coppers? Have you been out on a Halloween night? Women can't dress as anything unless it has the word sexy or slutty in front of it.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Also I read in the article about your ones friend blaming his wife for dressing provocatively, like what?? My boyfriend loves when I dress sexy, he says he loves to show me off, and if I get any really inappropriate attention he sorts it out verbally like a real man should, because why I am expected to defend myself against a man whos twice my height and width and a hundred times stronger than me just because I wore a short skirt??

Your boyfriend likes to dress you up sexy so he can defend you "like a real man"? Is he a caveman by any chance?

spacecookie555 wrote: »

I should have the right to walk butt naked down the street if I feel like it and not be "expecting to be raped" as the minority would have you think.

Unfortunately rapists tend to care very little about a womans rights and would attack you regardless.

I do have to agree with your last comment about rapists not caring about women rights, it is a fair point. But I am talking about the attitude a minority of men have, for instance the story of that guard in America giving the speech about how if you dont dress like a slut you wont be raped. Its an incredibly undereducated and ignorant view of the world and thats my opinion on it.
And just to clarify my boyfriend is not just a caveman... Hes a sexy beast of a caveman!!

Dudess

bluewolf wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8515592.stm
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=13288

Grim. Thankfully I don't know people like that, but then... anonymous surveys can enable people to say stuff they wouldn't dream of verbalising.
And women being among those who agree with it? **** women like that...

44leto

spacecookie555 wrote: »

I do have to agree with your last comment about rapists not caring about women rights, it is a fair point. But I am talking about the attitude a minority of men have, for instance the story of that guard in America giving the speech about how if you dont dress like a slut you wont be raped. Its an incredibly undereducated and ignorant view of the world and thats my opinion on it.
And just to clarify my boyfriend is not just a caveman... Hes a sexy beast of a caveman!!

It was Canada and that started the slutwalk. Here women can dress as they wish and that is not an invitation to rape. That's lust logic. Nobody has the right to lay violence on any other person period, whether it is rape or a mugging.

I actually asked a barmaid this last night when I seen a women almost limp by me in heels, "Why do women wear uncomfortable shoes" does anyone know?.

up for anything

token101 wrote: »

But women have the exact same rights as men and have done for decades. And if women can be feminists, then it has to be alright for men to promote men and their rights? But that's called chauvinism? Double standard?

Decades! Hahaha. You make it sound like it's been eight or nine decades rather than just two.