Ireland's 'rape culture'

Dudess

Some valid points being made - some men speak about women as if they're pieces of meat (I'm not talking about the joking stuff) and some men grope women... but as even Spacecookie concedes, they're a minority, and I still fail to see how that = rape culture.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Haha troll alert!! You funny man you haha, I must say thanks though you do give me a good giggle with your posts XD xxx

How is he trolling? He makes completely reasonable points - don't like them because they're in disagreement with you is it?

spacecookie555

44leto wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

I do have to agree with your last comment about rapists not caring about women rights, it is a fair point. But I am talking about the attitude a minority of men have, for instance the story of that guard in America giving the speech about how if you dont dress like a slut you wont be raped. Its an incredibly undereducated and ignorant view of the world and thats my opinion on it.
And just to clarify my boyfriend is not just a caveman... Hes a sexy beast of a caveman!!

It was Canada and that started the slutwalk. Here women can dress as they wish and that is not an invitation to rape. That's lust logic. Nobody has the right to lay violence on any other person period, whether it is rape or a mugging.

I actually asked a barmaid this last night when I seen a women almost limp by me in heels, "Why do women wear uncomfortable shoes" does anyone know?.

Thats right, my bad! And I totally agree with you on that point that no one has the right to lay violence on anyone.
And women wear heels cause they slim the leg and make the woman appear taller and leaner, the things we do for beauty :rolleyes:

MagicSean

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Thats right, my bad! And I totally agree with you on that point that no one has the right to lay violence on anyone.
And women wear heels cause they slim the leg and make the woman appear taller and leaner, the things we do for beauty :rolleyes:

Lets say there was a serial killer only killing people who wore red shoes. Would you wear read shoes to assert your right or would you reduce your risk by not wearing red shoes. It's no about your rights, it's about protecting yourself.

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

Lets say there was a serial killer only killing people who wore red shoes. Would you wear read shoes to assert your right or would you reduce your risk by not wearing red shoes. It's no about your rights, it's about protecting yourself.

That's complete toss, a rapist does not care what a woman is wearing, he doesn't walk by a woman in a mini and think I'll rape her. A rape is a crime of opportunity and in all cases its disobeying a woman's right to refuse.

spacecookie555

Dudess wrote: »

Some valid points being made - some men speak about women as if they're pieces of meat (I'm not talking about the joking stuff) and some men grope women... but as even Spacecookie concedes, they're a minority, and I still fail to see how that = rape culture.

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Haha troll alert!! You funny man you haha, I must say thanks though you do give me a good giggle with your posts XD xxx

How is he trolling? He makes completely reasonable points - don't like them because they're in disagreement with you is it?

Haha well if you read his posts he has referred to me as violent liar, seems like an attempt at a wind up to me but sure maybe im wrong. And I do agree with some of his points, I actually agree with most of yours too I just feel that in a good natured debate its silly to get personal with a specific individual. Ah im new to this anyway, just learning my way

Millicent

Dudess wrote: »

Some valid points being made - some men speak about women as if they're pieces of meat (I'm not talking about the joking stuff) and some men grope women... but as even Spacecookie concedes, they're a minority, and I still fail to see how that = rape culture.?

The term rape culture encompasses a wide range of reactions to and perceptions of rape. The biggest element of it, though, is the perceived acceptance of rape culturally.

Given stats like those Bluewolf posted, our despicably low prosecution and conviction rates for rape and sexual assault, the questioning of rape victims about their behaviour, sobriety and mode of dress at the time of the attack in court and outside it, the continued objectification of attractive people as objects in the media, advertising and elsewhere etc. etc., I would be inclined to say we do have a "rape culture".

The term "rape culture" is problematic as it suggests to some a culture where rape is openly condoned; it's not about that. It's about the subtle and insidious ways in which rape is made light of, explained away or in which the victim is blamed for the crime.

You only have to look at some of the rape cases discussed on AH to see this--that alleged rape of the contestant in the Brazilian Big Brother brought out the "silly girl. She shouldn't have got drunk around that guy" comments. While these were in the minority of the posts, that that attitude is a prevailing one is borne out by surveys done into attitudes to rape here and abroad.

I think it is also important to note that "rape culture" is not and should not be a gendered term. Men who are the victims of rape and other sexual violence are also the victims of rape culture in the ways in which they are viewed, treated and dealt with. Even more so, in many cases and ways, than a lot of female victims are.

spacecookie555

Millicent wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

Some valid points being made - some men speak about women as if they're pieces of meat (I'm not talking about the joking stuff) and some men grope women... but as even Spacecookie concedes, they're a minority, and I still fail to see how that = rape culture.?

The term rape culture encompasses a wide range of reactions to and perceptions of rape. The biggest element of it, though, is the perceived acceptance of rape culturally.

Given stats like those Bluewolf posted, our despicably low prosecution and conviction rates for rape and sexual assault, the questioning of rape victims about their behaviour, sobriety and mode of dress at the time of the attack in court and outside it, the continued objectification of attractive people as objects in the media, advertising and elsewhere etc. etc., I would be inclined to say we do have a "rape culture".

The term "rape culture" is problematic as it suggests to some a culture where rape is openly condoned; it's not about that. It's about the subtle and insidious ways in which rape is made light of, explained away or in which the victim is blamed for the crime.

You only have to look at some of the rape cases discussed on AH to see this--that alleged rape of the contestant in the Brazilian Big Brother brought out the "silly girl. She shouldn't have got drunk around that guy" comments. While these were in the minority of the posts, that that attitude is a prevailing one is borne out by surveys done into attitudes to rape here and abroad.

I think it is also important to note that "rape culture" is not nor should not be a gendered term. Men who are the victims of rape and other sexual violence are also the victims of rape culture in the ways in which they are viewed, treated and dealt with. Even more so, in many cases and ways, than a lot of female victims are.

Fantastic post I have to say. I totally agree with you.

Carlos Orange

wonderfulname wrote: »

I think it's the fact that in that regard (note just that, I'm not talking about parental rights here), abortion is an issue which only affects women but yet anti abortion laws were put in place by men. That's my impression anyway, the idea that a man or woman should be allowed do what they wish with their own body, equal does not mean same.

I always find this attitude strange. If people really think men should have nothing to do with pregnancy/abortion it only makes sense that men should have no legally enforced parental responsibilities post birth either.

Chucky the tree

So our rape culture goes in hand in hand with our mugging culture, burglary culture, assault culture etc etc.

spacecookie555

Dudess wrote: »

bluewolf wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8515592.stm
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=13288

Grim. Thankfully I don't know people like that, but then... anonymous surveys can enable people to say stuff they wouldn't dream of verbalising.
And women being among those who agree with it? **** women like that...

Wow those findings are shocking!! I totally agree with you, what is the matter with some people???

Millicent

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So our rape culture goes in hand in hand with our mugging culture, burglary culture, assault culture etc etc.

How so? If you're saying that it is part of an over-arching acceptance of violence in a culture, that argument could and has been made before. Or am I misreading you?

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

if you read his posts he has referred to me as violent liar

Wow, that's some twist of reality.

Mr. Loverman

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So our rape culture goes in hand in hand with our mugging culture, burglary culture, assault culture etc etc.

They have picked a topic they can direct their anger at. Logic cannot defeat emotion, unfortunately.

Millicent

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

They have picked a topic they can direct their anger at. Logic cannot defeat emotion, unfortunately.

Okay, to challenge that with logic, what is the equivalent of a rape victim being asked how many sexual partners they have had in their past in a mugging or assault setting?

44leto

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

They have picked a topic they can direct their anger at. Logic cannot defeat emotion, unfortunately.

It can you know. How many times have you felt like killing someone and didn't.

Mr. Loverman

Millicent wrote: »

Okay, to challenge that with logic, what is the equivalent of a rape victim being asked how many sexual partners they have had in their past in a mugging or assault setting?

I think everyone is in agreement there are problems with how rape is investigated and prosecuted.

But that does not mean we have a rape culture.

It is obvious the phrase rape culture has been chosen as it is sensational and catchy, but in reality it is not accurate.

wasislos

no need to rape anyone just go home and tank over some porn are we not getting anywhere. here : escort-ireland.com

Mr. Loverman

44leto wrote: »

It can you know. How many times have you felt like killing someone and didn't.

Sorry, you're right. I guess "extreme emotion" or "misguided emotion" is more accurate.

spacecookie555

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

That is shocking that ireland is in the top ten!! And theyre only the ones they know about!! Scary...

Millicent

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I think everyone is in agreement there are problems with how rape is investigated and prosecuted.

But that does not mean we have a rape culture.

It is obvious the phrase rape culture has been chosen as it is sensational and catchy, but in reality it is not accurate.

Outside of prosecution though, how do you view the attitudes to rape as shown in Bluewolf's links? Would you not agree that these are indicative of a culture which seeks to condone rape?

MagicSean

Millicent wrote: »

Okay, to challenge that with logic, what is the equivalent of a rape victim being asked how many sexual partners they have had in their past in a mugging or assault setting?

Rape offences depend completely on the issue of consent and are usually one word against the other. So any deviation from a persons normal behaviour can either lend credence to or introduce doubt to their story.

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

That is shocking that ireland is in the top ten!! And theyre only the ones they know about!! Scary...

And shocking Sierra Leone is 41... so one could argue the list means people in Ireland are more likely to go to the police if they've been raped rather than more likely to be raped.

Chucky the tree

Millicent wrote: »

How so? If you're saying that it is part of an over-arching acceptance of violence in a culture, that argument could and has been made before. Or am I misreading you?

It seems we have a rape culture because we women are sometime blamed for their actions. It happens in lots of different situations...

Chuchoter wrote: »

A rape culture is one in which the majority of the blame for rape is placed on the woman, but this will probably only jump out at women. This isn't to fault the men of Ireland, its not really relevant to your day to day life so I don't expect you to realize it. Women are taught not to be raped, but men aren't taught to not rape. We are taught never to walk alone at night, never go to the bathroom alone, learn self defense, don't wear 'revealing' clothing, don't get drunk, don't fall asleep, be on guard if you're alone with a man you don't know, keep an eye on where on a path your walking is there an alley you could be dragged into, don't make eye contact. The list goes on for days and for most women its so ingrained in us we don't even realize we're doing it.
What do men, in your every day life to not get raped? Is it right that if a woman is raped, someone somewhere is going oh why was she walking there, why was she wearing a short skirt, why was she drinking. There is a reason the rate of reporting for rape is so low. All that happens is the rapist goes free and the woman lives with the shame forever. There's your rape culture

Firstly, the majority of blame is never placed on a women, some might be. However if you go on holidays for two weeks and leave your front door wide open then blame will be placed on the householder, insurance will obviously tell him he isn't covered and if he told his workmates/friends etc they'd all think stupid for leaving his door wide open. We are thought from a very young age to lock our doors, keep an eye on our possessions when out, walk home on well lit road(both men and women) etc etc. It's not just women who are told this things, men are as well. I was always told not to walk home down dodgy lanes or through the park in the middle of the night and I'd say most guys where as well. I don't think we have a man-attack culture though. It seems that giving him some common sense advice means you have a rape culture, might as well tell every country in the world that they have and about a million other horrible cultures.

laoch na mona

crazy women on a rant:rolleyes:
nothing to see here move along

saa

spacecookie555 wrote: »

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

That is shocking that ireland is in the top ten!! And theyre only the ones they know about!! Scary...

Was at a talk with someone from that site and they said that they do try and provoke their readers and get the comments section going, I don't take them seriously at all.

That ranking of reported rapes is not shocking its a relief if those are reported cases, at least people are reporting now, its hard to estimate I've read a few RCC reports and I am never worried walking anywhere (except sometimes in regards to getting mugged) but the chances are its someone I know or who tries to build of trust with me that would assault me statistically opposed to someone absolute stranger on the street although I sadly don't go walking in the hills or anywhere secluded alone anymore I was chased/cornered twice, once when I was 14 and another time when I was 20 hill walking, just weirdos hanging around places like that but I feel safe in populated places.

Mr. Loverman

Millicent wrote: »

Outside of prosecution though, how do you view the attitudes to rape as shown in Bluewolf's links? Would you not agree that these are indicative of a culture which seeks to condone rape?

Obviously statements like 10% of people feel that a woman is completely to blame for rape if she has had a number of sexual partners are very worrying, but that does not mean we have a rape culture in Ireland.

If you want to say a minority of Irish people have a warped view about rape or the Irish legal system needs to be improved regarding its sensitivity to rape victims, then of course I agree, but a statement like Ireland has a rape culture is tabloid rubbish.

spacecookie555

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

That is shocking that ireland is in the top ten!! And theyre only the ones they know about!! Scary...

And shocking Sierra Leone is 41... so one could argue the list means people in Ireland are more likely to go to the police if they've been raped rather than more likely to be raped.

Funny because if you read the articles by bluewolf it seems to be a very different story. I get your point but its the fact that this many rapes are happening, im sure many more report it than in sierra leone and that shows that at least were pointed in the right direction. But the fact of the matter is those rape figures are staggering for such a small developed country.

44leto

laoch na mona wrote: »

crazy women on a rant:rolleyes:
nothing to see here move along

Boards has 20 topics on this page and 1001 pages of topics and you chose to put that here.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's an interesting debate, you could actually learn something.

laoch na mona

44leto wrote: »

Boards has 20 topics on this page and 1001 pages of topics and you chose to put that here.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's an interesting debate, you could actually learn something.

like what? that the journal.ie is nuts

44leto

laoch na mona wrote: »

like what? that the journal.ie is nuts

Maybe, in your opinion, but other posters whom I thought you were referring to are not.

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Funny because if you read the articles by bluewolf it seems to be a very different story. I get your point but its the fact that this many rapes are happening, im sure many more report it than in sierra leone and that shows that at least were pointed in the right direction. But the fact of the matter is those rape figures are staggering for such a small developed country.

I suspect a lot more than 0.102 per 1000 people are raped in Ireland each year, especially if you include the data on sexual abuse.

But I have a hard time believing Ireland is one of the worst offenders.

However I have no doubt our history of sexual repression (i.e. catholicism) means we have some way to go before we can openly talk about sex (in all its forms).

For example, I would be a supporter of pre-emptive counselling where potential abusers can talk (for free) to psychologists to try to get rid of any unwanted urges. This would have to be done in a sensitive, understanding environment where the person is seen as innocent and seeking help.

laoch na mona

44leto wrote: »

Maybe, in your opinion, but other posters whom I thought you were referring to are not.

i was referring to the article

spacecookie555

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Funny because if you read the articles by bluewolf it seems to be a very different story. I get your point but its the fact that this many rapes are happening, im sure many more report it than in sierra leone and that shows that at least were pointed in the right direction. But the fact of the matter is those rape figures are staggering for such a small developed country.

I suspect a lot more than 0.102 per 1000 people are raped in Ireland each year, especially if you include the data on sexual abuse.

But I have a hard time believing Ireland is one of the worst offenders.

However I have no doubt our history of sexual repression (i.e. catholicism) means we have some way to go before we can openly talk about sex (in all its forms).

For example, I would be a supporter of pre-emptive counselling where potential abusers can talk (for free) to psychologists to try to get rid of any unwanted urges. This would have to be done in a sensitive, understanding environment where the person is seen as innocent and seeking help.

I would definately have to agree with you there, while its a very controversial matter I do believe the "nip it in the bud" approach would go a long way in helping matters.
I think its a good step foward for example showing those anti rape adverts of the drunken girl and boy, where the boy is screaming at himself from behind the glass because from a sober perspective hes knows what hes doing is wrong. Have you seen them? Theyre very shocking but I think the awareness they create is very good.
Finally I think education on both sides would be helpful, instead of just teaching women the rights and wrongs, what to avoid and what to do, both men and women should be thought, I think it would also cut fake rape cries in half if men were thought the situations to avoid.

Millicent

MagicSean wrote: »

Rape offences depend completely on the issue of consent and are usually one word against the other. So any deviation from a persons normal behaviour can either lend credence to or introduce doubt to their story.

So if I have sex with 100 guys and number 101 rapes me after as i say no, that should be used in court to determine whether I'm telling the truth? Can you honestly tell me that that information isn't prejudicial to a jury?

MagicSean

Millicent wrote: »

So if i have sex with 100 guys and number 101 rapes me after as i say no, that should be used in court to determine whether I'm telling the truth? Can you honestly tell me that that information isn't prejudicial to a jury?

If you have never had anal sex and the person who rapes you does it anally then your past experience would add credence to your testimony.

If you regularly get drunk and have sex with strangers and don't remember it and then you accuse someone of raping you while you were too drunk to consent then that is pretty relevant as it would lend truth to his testimony that he didn't realise you weren't consenting.

it works both ways

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

If you have never had anal sex and the person who rapes you does it anally then your past experience would add credence to your testimony.

If you regularly get drunk and have sex with strangers and don't remember it and then you accuse someone of raping you while you were too drunk to consent then that is pretty relevant as it would lend truth to his testimony that he didn't realise you weren't consenting.

it works both ways

No
Even if you are a crack whore who had sex with a 1000 men, if you say no to 1001 and he forces it, that is still rape. Punters have been jailed for rape and rightly so.

Mr. Loverman

MagicSean wrote: »

If you regularly get drunk and have sex with strangers and don't remember it and then you accuse someone of raping you while you were too drunk to consent then that is pretty relevant as it would lend truth to his testimony that he didn't realise you weren't consenting.

I think the number of people s/he has had sex with is totally irrelevant.

But I would be of the opinion if you wake up naked in bed next to someone, and you cannot remember giving consent due to heavy alcohol consumption, it is absolutely wrong to accuse the guy of rape just because you can't remember.

We don't and never will live in a perfect world, so people need to use a bit of common sense to reduce their chances of being attacked. Of course if you are attacked, the attacker should get the blame, but you're a dope if you put yourself in danger.

MagicSean

44leto wrote: »

No
Even if you are a crack whore who had sex with a 1000 men, if you say no to 1001 and he forces it, that is still rape. Punters have been jailed for rape and rightly so.

The problem is that you have a very one dimensional view of rape. To you it seems to be a matter of someone simply saying no. The issue of consent is much more complex than that. You can't just look at wether the victim didn't want sex, you also have to look at wether the offender knew this. If everyone said "no" or "stop" rape cases would be easier to prosecute but this is not the case.

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

The problem is that you have a very one dimensional view of rape. To you it seems to be a matter of someone simply saying no. The issue of consent is much more complex than that. You can't just look at wether the victim didn't want sex, you also have to look at wether the offender knew this. If everyone said "no" or "stop" rape cases would be easier to prosecute but this is not the case.

It is that simple it is always your partners prerogative, in the present culture it is easy to assume we have all been there. If they even whisper a no, then that is it, no sex. If you don't have that attitude, you should.

MagicSean

44leto wrote: »

It is that simple it is always your partners prerogative, in the present culture it is easy to assume we have all been there. If they even whisper a no, then that is it, no sex. If you don't have that attitude, you should.

Again you are oversimplifying it. What about a case where the person says nothing because they are scared or drunk? Is that rape even though they didn't say "no"?

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

Again you are oversimplifying it. What about a case where the person says nothing because they are scared or drunk? Is that rape even though they didn't say "no"?

They didn't exactly consent either, so yes that is a rape. I am a guy and I know well the guy knows what is consensual and what is not, there is no confusion.

Mr. Loverman

MagicSean wrote:

What about a case where the person says nothing because they are scared

Eh?!

MagicSean

44leto wrote: »

They didn't exactly consent either, so yes that is a rape. I am a guy and I know well the guy knows what is consensual and what is not, there is no confusion.

Well it's a good job you aren't on a jury so. You appear to have made your mind up already

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Eh?!

It means afraid.

Mr. Loverman

MagicSean wrote:

It means afraid.

Are you saying you would have sex with a girl who is saying nothing but is clearly afraid?

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

Well it's a good job you aren't on a jury so. You appear to have made your mind up already



It means afraid.

How? No means NO and non consent means non consent, it really is that simple.

And yes scared really does mean afraid, frightened, terrorised, intimidated, petrified............

haminka

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It seems we have a rape culture because we women are sometime blamed for their actions. It happens in lots of different situations...





Firstly, the majority of blame is never placed on a women, some might be. However if you go on holidays for two weeks and leave your front door wide open then blame will be placed on the householder, insurance will obviously tell him he isn't covered and if he told his workmates/friends etc they'd all think stupid for leaving his door wide open. We are thought from a very young age to lock our doors, keep an eye on our possessions when out, walk home on well lit road(both men and women) etc etc. It's not just women who are told this things, men are as well. I was always told not to walk home down dodgy lanes or through the park in the middle of the night and I'd say most guys where as well. I don't think we have a man-attack culture though. It seems that giving him some common sense advice means you have a rape culture, might as well tell every country in the world that they have and about a million other horrible cultures.

agreed -if someone picks the purse from the top of your open handbag, it doesn't put blame on you but it's lesson learned to be careful.
rape is often a crime of opportunity - and if you walk half-naked and barely able to go because you are drunk in high heels through the park to make your way shorter or accept a completely strange man's invitation to his place on a night out, you are increasing the risks. that doesn't put the blame on you or excuses the man.
in an ideal world we wouldn't need car alarms and house locks and we could walk anywhere without any problem. not in reality.
and i agree with the notion that while women in Ireland are still not considered completely equal and being a target of sexist jokes is more frequent for women, that includes working place (i don't do any clubbing or pubs so don't know what is going on there), the right rape culture exists in countries where women are considered second-class citizens and sex-objects who must endure the sexual exploitation without any protest because already their appearance on the street without accompanying male relative is considered sexual provocation.

MagicSean

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Are you saying you would have sex with a girl who is saying nothing but is clearly afraid?

Pretty sure I didn't say that. You make up what you want though.

44leto wrote: »

How? No means NO and non consent means non consent, it really is that simple.

And yes it scared really does mean afraid, frightened, terrorised, intimidated, petrified, frightened............

The non consent or fear must be communicated to or recognisable by the other person. I'm sure there's more than one woman who has gone home with someone and immediately regretted her decision but did the deed anyway. Does that mean he has raped her? No because there was no way of knowing that she didn't really want to have sex. It's a very complicated area of criminal law and your attempt at simplifying it into No means No merely limits the laws application.

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

Pretty sure I didn't say that. You make up what you want though.



The non consent or fear must be communicated to or recognisable by the other person. I'm sure there's more than one woman who has gone home with someone and immediately regretted her decision but did the deed anyway. Does that mean he has raped her? No because there was no way of knowing that she didn't really want to have sex. It's a very complicated area of criminal law and your attempt at simplifying it into No means No merely limits the laws application.

HUH
If she did the deed she said yes and did consent, off course that is not rape there just simply isn't a case.

But if she said no, and the guy forces it, that is rape. You see the difference.

And it is not all about conviction its also about morals and conscience, the guy knows.

Take you, I meet you down the pub, you have tight jeans on, nice ass, nice crotch we get chatting I say lets have a smoke back at mine, you agree, now I am a fairly big guy, I decide I want to have sex with you, you say no I am not gay, I force it anyway. Pretty clear isn't it.

MagicSean

44leto wrote: »

HUH
If she did the deed she said yes and did consent, off course that is not rape there just simply isn't a case.

But if she said no, and the guy forces it, that is rape. You see the difference.

And it is not all about conviction its also about morals and conscience, the guy knows.

Take you, I meet you down the pub, you have tight jeans on, nice ass, nice crotch we get chatting I say lets have a smoke back at mine, you agree, now I am a fairly big guy, I decide I want to have sex with you, you say no I am not gay, I force it anyway. Pretty clear isn't it.

i thought we were talking about investigation and prosecution of rape. How is conviction not important? Surely that's the whole point of the other two. Why would you report a rape you didn't want prosecuted?

Anyway, like i said, you have a simplistic view of what rape is and are oblivious to the complexities involved in each individual case.

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

i thought we were talking about investigation and prosecution of rape. How is conviction not important? Surely that's the whole point of the other two. Why would you report a rape you didn't want prosecuted?

Anyway, like i said, you have a simplistic view of what rape is and are oblivious to the complexities involved in each individual case.

No i don't, it really is that simple and most would agree with me as does the law.

Convictions are important as is justice, but surely that is not on my mind when I am in the situation. I don't think i will just have sex sure she couldn't prove a thing.

I don't do it because it is wrong and unconscionable. Simple.