Male Feminists

Dudess

johnr1 wrote: »

Now that I think of it, I suppose it's not such a surprise that this war erupted. It's been brewing in skirmishes here and in TLL for a while now, but I suppose at least it's happening in a semi neutral space.

Seriously though, it's divisive sh1t, and really solves nothing, only widens gaps of misunderstanding. I found it hard to read without getting angry because of stuff said on both sides. I dont think either group would address the other in these terms face to face.

What stuff said against men though? The only anger towards a handful of male posters on this thread is as a result of provocation.

Bannasidhe

Dudess wrote: »

What stuff said against men though? The only anger towards a handful of male posters on this thread is as a result of provocation.

Does suggesting a male feminist had been deprived of his testicles count as an attack against a man? Mind, it was said by another man....:rolleyes:

--Kaiser--

Millicent wrote: »

Right, and have you seen the names I have been called and the slurs against my character throughout the thread? I am more than capable of speaking for myself, but don't be so disingenuous as to suggest that because I'm a woman I need someone to ride to my rescue. That's the not the situation and if you think it is, read the thread again.

If it's an Ad hominem attack then call it like it is. If it's an offensive post then report it. Playing the 'bullying' card is pathetic in any argument (I do realise that Dudess claimed you were being bullied, not you). It shouldn't matter how many people are 'ganging up' on you if you can defend you opinion

Bannasidhe

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

If it's an Ad hominem attack then call it like it is. If it's an offensive post then report it. Playing the 'bullying' card is pathetic in any argument (I do realise that Dudess claimed you were being bullied, not you). It shouldn't matter how many people are 'ganging up' on you if you can defend you opinion

So you are objecting to Dudess commenting that she felt some of the posts directed at Millicent smacked of bullying and turned that into a 'oooohhhh look, the women are playing the bully card - a man would never, ever do that' attack on women in general....ok....

Millicent

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

If it's an Ad hominem attack then call it like it is. If it's an offensive post then report it. Playing the 'bullying' card is pathetic in any argument (I do realise that Dudess claimed you were being bullied, not you). It shouldn't matter how many people are 'ganging up' on you if you can defend you opinion

Have you been in the position on Boards where every post you make is twisted by people who are vehemently opposed to you just because you describe yourself with a single word? I have, and far too many times to count. It can be incredibly isolating and aggression-inducing to use the word "feminist" on AH and yet I still do, despite the fact I know this backlash nearly always starts. I have defended myself quite well, but when it's devolving into a situation where people are attacking your character, trying to use leading questions to twist your standpoint, refusing to discuss your points with any level of respect or read what you are actually saying but what they have decided you are saying despite proof to the contrary, and badgering you, it's borderline bullying. It's also insidious enough and so expertly straddling the line, that it's hard to report it.

Nothing to do with the fact that I am a woman and I am incredibly grateful to Dudess and others for the defence.

Eve_Dublin

Millicent, you're my hero. Some feckin' patience you've got there...

WindSock

Its not that millicent is a chick that it happens, sure look at the lengths gone through to attack later10, his thunderdome posts trawled through, and often k9 in the past had been accused of white knighting. I would say it is a vocal minority on boards who love nothing more but derailing and rolleyesing their way through any thread that mentions the 'f' word.

Millicent

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Millicent, you're my hero. Some feckin' patience you've got there...

Aw, shucks! *toes dirt with shoe* :pac:

Dudess

The fact there is a small few posters still trying to depict forthright women as "man-haters" and it's let fester is really disappointing.

Oh and if I thought a guy was being borderline bullied I'd say so.

smash

Ok ok, I got one to lighten the mood....

Are feminists better or worse in bed than non feminists? Would they have too many morals and see adventurous stuff as 'degrading' or would they be all militant and get crazy?

Dudess

smash wrote: »

Ok ok, I got one to lighten the mood....

Are feminists better or worse in bed than non feminists? Would they have too many morals and see adventurous stuff as 'degrading' or would they be all militant and get crazy?

There are both types of feminist!

Gummy Panda

smash wrote: »

Ok ok, I got one to lighten the mood....

Are feminists better or worse in bed than non feminists? Would they have too many morals and see adventurous stuff as 'degrading' or would they be all militant and get crazy?

Stop trying to fish for info on Dudess love dungeon :mad:

I couldn't imagine feminism being a part of someone's sex life, that would be more based on their sexuality and fantasies

smash

Dudess wrote: »

There are both types of feminist!

Hey.... that's not an answer!

Duggy747

*Sees oppertunity to manufacture sex toy and call it the Femifist............powered by Girl Power* :pac:

Gummy Panda

Duggy747 wrote: »

*Sees oppertunity to manufacture sex toy and call it the Femifist............powered by Girl Power* :pac:

I may murder you and steal his idea

Kooli

The fact that feminism has become a dirty word is testament to the success of those who attempt to attack and corner anyone who declares themselves a supporter of women's rights, berating them and questioning them over and over again in attempt to prove them wrong.

Now women who are pro-women's rights and pro-equality don't feel they can identify with the word 'feminism' even though that's what feminism is.

There can never, ever be a discussion on women's rights on Boards without it becoming a discussion on father's rights (which is described as 'men's rights').

Just like there can never be a discussion about rape without it becoming a discussion about false accusations of rape, and how men are the real victims here.

So forgive me if, as a feminist, my goal is not to campaign for the rights of men.

I will not object to others campaigning for the rights of men, nor will I stand in their way. I will not fight to hold on to any of the few privileges that my gender affords me if these are unfair.

However, my belief in equality and the promotion of women's rights does address issues of equality in childcare and homemaking as well as in the workplace. The problem with father's rights is a side effect of this, and if women achieved equality in the workplace AND were not seen by society as the default primary caregivers and nurturers, then this would have a positive impact on the rights of fathers. This would be great for those fathers who want a role in their childrens lives but aren't being given that at present, and I doubt there is a feminist in the world who doesn't want that. So fathers rights are tied up in the feminist agenda to some extent, but that does not mean that feminists need to prioritise campaigning for the rights of men!

The fact is that the promotion of the rights of women (to the point of equality, not advantage) would benefit both sexes.

For those who are saying it is about taking away men's rights, it really isn't. But is it about reducing male privilege? I guess it is. The same way that any attempt to increase equality will reduce the privilege of one group. So it's understandable that some men would resist it, because genuine equality would necessarily mean reducing the privileged position of men.

Millicent

Duggy747 wrote: »

*Sees oppertunity to manufacture sex toy and call it the Femifist............powered by Girl Power* :pac:

"Patriarchal society got you down? Oppressive gender stereotypes making you frown? You need the Femifist.

*Now six per cent cheaper than the leading male brand."

:pac:

Bannasidhe

Millicent wrote: »

"Patriarchal society got you down? Oppressive gender stereotypes making you frown? You need the Femifist.

*Now six per cent cheaper than the leading male brand."

:pac:

Does it come (pardon the pun ) with solar power or possibly some kind of orgasm powered dynamo yoke?

hmmm...I may be onto to something with the orgasm dynamo....BACK OFF - THAT'S MY IDEA!!!

Kooli

smash wrote: »

Ok ok, I got one to lighten the mood....

Are feminists better or worse in bed than non feminists? Would they have too many morals and see adventurous stuff as 'degrading' or would they be all militant and get crazy?

No one else sees the irony of turning a conversation about what feminism is into a conversation about what type of woman would be better to have sex with?

No?

No one?

WindSock

I think it is a positive thing there are campaigns to dispell the image that feminists are ugly fat hairy yokes.

http://www.google.ie/search?tbm=isch&source=mog&hl=en-GB&gl=ie&client=safari&q=this%20is%20feminist%20bill%20bailey&sa=N&biw=320&bih=416#i=0

Eve_Dublin

I should also mention K9, Dudess, Windsock and Later10...thanks fellers. I'm not able for this kind of thread anymore (but yet here I am! Haha). I've been labelled ugly, jealous, a man-hater, bitter, fat, frigid etc. way too often when I've waded in (in fairness, with all guns blazing sometimes) and it's unpleasant to say the least. Happened very recently and I'd go as far as saying it hurt and it ruined my weekend and it was completely unjustified I shouldn't let this **** bother me but the viciousness is hard to take, particularly when it's completely untrue...I don't come across that kind of abuse in TRL, not since my teenage years and I don't abuse people on here, not personally.

I wonder would these people say it to my face if they met me?

Just for the record, I'm none of those things and I've been around here long enough to know the women fighting their corner here are not man-haters :rolleyes: but have been labelled frankly horrible things for just defending our corner. I'm not playing the victim card but perhaps those who think it's alright to insult someone, even on the internet should stop and remember there's a real person typing away here and you know **** all about me.

It's come to the stage where I'm nervous typing anything in these types of threads for fear of personal abuse. I don't need that on an internet discussion forum I use to relax. I'm not a complete wimp but we're fecking adults for the love of god. We're beyond the stage of hurling personal abuse at each other.

I'm only directing this at a handful of posters, not just the ones with a differing opinion. You know who you are.

Why can't we all just feckin' get along...maaaan?

Bannasidhe

Kooli wrote: »

No one else sees the irony of turning a conversation about what feminism is into a conversation about what type of woman would be better to have sex with?

No?

No one?

I'm surprised it took so long but surprised it happened. Naaaaaaahhhh.

smash

Kooli wrote: »

No one else sees the irony of turning a conversation about what feminism is into a conversation about what type of woman would be better to have sex with?

No?

No one?

Nope

Bannasidhe

smash wrote: »

Nope

I do.

smash

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I do.

But it's not offensive. I'm just lightening the mood.

Millicent

Kooli wrote: »

No one else sees the irony of turning a conversation about what feminism is into a conversation about what type of woman would be better to have sex with?

No?

No one?

I have to say I do now you mention it but I appreciate the levity.

Bannasidhe

smash wrote: »

But it's not offensive. I'm just lightening the mood.

No one said it was offensive, just ironic. Which it is. Irony makes me laugh.

smash

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No one said it was offensive, just ironic. Which it is. Irony makes me laugh.

Ok. Just as long as it isn't turned around on me now

Kooli

smash wrote: »

But it's not offensive. I'm just lightening the mood.

I believe it's ironic because a lot of feminists including myself would be uncomfortable with the fact that in our culture, women are often seen as sexual objects, whose purpose is to be attractive, desirable and sexually available to men. This can manifest itself in really obvious ways, like the constant objectification of women in advertising and media, and in slightly more subtle ways like the fact that no matter how much a woman has achieved, her body and her looks are always on the agenda for discussion, often before her accomplishments.

And this objection is not about being sex-negative or prudish, because I would have no objection to discussions or depictions of female sexuality or sexual pleasure.

But quite often, female sexuality is often discussed from a male perspective in terms of what will be 'done to them'.

And here, in a thread about feminism, we are talking about which type of women is the best to have sex with. WHich is more likely to do the degrading stuff.

I'm not saying you are trying to be offensive. I'm just saying that it was such a stereotypical sexual objectification, I assumed it was a knowing in-joke.

themadchef

WindSock wrote: »

yokes.

Her Mrs, ya wanna buy some yolks?


Feminists, pacifists, activists, alarmists ,purists, bull shítartists (yayhey )

(Where are the cool people hiding)

Load of balls to me (no pun intended) .

20 pages later the wagons will still be circling.

My pastry lecutrer used to say, "the sun is warm and the grass is green" and just close her eys as the place filled with smoke

Walk away, walk away through smoke filled eyes, walk away.