Male Feminists

Micky Dolenz

Millicent wrote: »

And what about the other insults? Whatever about the crybaby part, is it convenient to ignore the other names?

Mod

Can you please report these insults.

All we are doing now is derailing a discussion. Can we all just move on now please. I really don't want to start handing out cards/bans.

Report posts.

Dudess

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Millicent wrote: »

`
I have been called a chauvinist, a hypocrite, a radical, a crybaby, told I am suffering from a persecution complex, told I don't understand an ideology I have studied in university from someone who can't see to get the basic definition right despite it being pointed out, told that I am different to men and more inclined towards cleaning because of how my brain is formed, and told I have a lack of integrity for daring to feel offended by any of it

Do you really think those sorts of responses are appropriate or designed to be anything less than, at the least, dismissive?

You were called a crybaby because you accused other people arguing against you of 'bullying' this is a pathetic argumentative fallacy (appeal to pity). This bit in bold is clearly an argument to authority, just because you studied something in college means you are always right, nor does it mean you automatcally know more than someone else on the subject.

How about trying some cogent arguments to defend your views?

Utter bollocks. The lies on this thread...

She did not accuse anyone of bullying her. I said it looked like borderline bullying - and not simply because of people arguing against her (still with that lazy claim) but the way in which they did it, which was explained plenty of times and which you are refusing to acknowledge.

There was nasty **** thrown at her just because she identifies herself as a feminist, not one other facet of her personality taken into account. And you know it.

Zulu

Dudess wrote: »

Sigh. Zulu, you're an intelligent guy.....

Sigh. Dudess, you're an intelligent girl. You aren't fooling anyone. Playing the victim card (as you're want to do in threads such as these) hardly progresses the topic. The past few pages have been a train wreck since the spectre of bullying & "feminazi" were raised.

I stated that the indirect attacks were appalling, I didn't state which side was making them. I didn't need to, as posters on both sides were.

I note you haven't answered my question vis odious comments. I take it you'll leave it as an indirect attack as opposed to actually taking responsibility for your comments & addressing it.

The vast majority of criticism of feminism is hostile towards even reasonable feminists, poorly thought out, full of ignorance (very little understanding or knowledge of the movement displayed) resorting to stereotypes, veiled insults, llacking in support... THAT'S what's causing the defensivesness, ...

While some of this may be true, it's true of both sides. And some people have put forth reasonable arguments. This have been ignored in favour of addressing the rest. The conversation will only progress where people want it to progress - perhaps consider that when you click the reply button. The choice is there to play the victim or progress the conversation & ignore the rest.

If someone put forward a reasonable argument outlining their issues with it, great - bring it on.

You mean like:

As an egalitarian I distance myself from "feminism" as I see it in practice. As a male egalitarian who distances himself from "feminism", I'm often accused of being a chauvinist or sexist by "feminists".

Please note my use of "" around the word feminist & feminism. I use it as I have come across some feminists that don't appear to conform to what I experience as the norm. They are compassionate people with well thought out ideas & have a genuine interest in society as a whole.

However, my exposure to "feminism" has been tainted by people who are loud about it. They appear to be in the majority as they appear to make more noise about it. These "feminists" tend to be complete hypocrites, hiding blatant sexism behind an ill conceived notion of "equality" in order to achieve more for one sex with feckless abandon for the other. It's appears, sometimes, to be a spiteful action, one bread from contempt and revenge for past grievances of a different generation. Frankly, I find it difficult to tolerate.

Granted, perhaps I only hear the loud ones in the social circles I move in, but Ireland is a very “small world”, and I don’t lead a sheltered existence.

And the loudest ones are from people who just look as if they're venting due to personal experiences.

You simply can't resist the digs, can you? I wonder do you have any interest in rational discussion at all, because if every post you have is littered with indirect attacks & insults, you’ll be a long time finding one.

Lady Chuckles

smash wrote: »

That's a very dangerous and untrue presumption.

I get that.
I would just like to get to the problem here. What's wrong with fighting for women's rights? Why is it an issue for some people that others want to be feminists?

Dudess

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Mod

I have been keeping a close eye on this and would deem there to be no bully. If any poster can report posts that may be bullying please do so. Otherwise drop it please.

I do however see aggressive and flaming posts on both sides of the debate. Please read what you post and think about it before you reply.

We do not want to stifle open debate. Please report any suspect posts.

She was clearly being ganged up on - just because you and the other AH mods don't give a flying **** about this topic, no need to pretend she wasn't. :rolleyes:

smash

Kooli wrote: »

smash wrote: »

Other men don't find this offensive so women shouldn't either.


the woman in the ad obviously doesn't care if she's objectified so other people shouldn't care either.

.

OK, I hate having to do the quote and nit-pick thing, but you repeatedly say you HAVEN'T told women what they should or shouldn't care about or be offended about.

There. You did. Twice.

And it was balanced. If men don't care why should women? If the woman doesn't care why should you?

Kooli wrote: »

I see now that you do think it's OK for people in privileged groups to 'explain' to those who complain about discrimination and oppression that they are wrong, whether that be white people explaining to black people, or men explaining to women.

Yes it is ok to point out the obvious flaws in certain logic, otherwise it's not balanced because it's one sided and it's turning a blind eye to the hypocrisy. However I never said they were wrong to think what they think!

You're just determined to dismiss me because I'm male. I'm trying to show you where there's flaws.

Micky Dolenz

Take a time out.

Millicent, we will investigate all posts.

Dudess, I'm surprised with your aggressive tone toward the AH mods. We do care and do our best to let discussion flow.

Micky Dolenz

Ok.

The thread has been looked over. We don't believe bullying in any form took place. However, the debate crossed over to a heated arguement where shouting down occurred.

It's an emotive subject and is bound to get heated. Heated debate is good heated arguing isn't.

This leads me how to this: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77104292#

With regard to this thread, it will remain closed. maybe we can start again with cooler heads.