Cloud Computing

Seachmall

laugh wrote: »

Eh so redundancy of the kind that allows something like gmail or google docs to function has always existed?

I don't know the specifics of how Google store their data but the concept of redundant storage is quite old, yes.

How google stores and syncs data has everything to do with "Cloud computing" was anybody talking about Cloud computing before they did? Did Amazon use the same techniques to provide ec2, s3, mapReduce services? Yes.

How Google stores data is important for making their services practical to use but it is not a definitive characteristic of "cloud computing", and it's certainly not an exclusive one.

was anybody talking about Cloud computing before they did?

Yes, yes they were.

laugh

Seachmall wrote: »

I don't know the specifics of how Google store their data but the concept of redundant storage is quite old, yes.

How Google stores data is important for making their services practical to use but it is not a definitive characteristic of "cloud computing", and it's certainly not an exclusive one.

Yes, yes they were.

I do know the technologies that they have put in the public domain that make cloud technologies of any reasonable scale work. Google begot Aws which begot netflicks/facebook/large scale hosting.

Seachmall

laugh wrote: »

that make cloud technologies of any reasonable scale work.

But once again, it's not a defining characteristic nor is it a new concept.

laugh

Seachmall wrote: »

But once again, it's not a defining characteristic nor is it a new concept.

I know what you are saying; you could offer a service on the internet sync a reasonable amount of data from one location to another, or from one server to another, in the even of loss of one machine/connection/location you can bring it up in another location in a reasonable amount of time.

To me the cloud is seem-less large scale services of the type that just were not possible before the googles/amazons/facebooks of this world started building massive data centres connected to each other by massive pipes and using the latest data technologies like the google file-system.

Capt'n Midnight

Back in the 80's there were diskless PC's remote booting off Novell severs.

All that's happened since is that bandwidth got cheap enough for the masses to use remote computing worldwide instead of being restricted to the same building.

Nothing new, they reinvent the wheel every twenty to thirty years, but they call it something else and pretend it's new.

Nulty

Isn't cloud computing more or less a shift from more traditional computer organisation of programs installed on your local machine like games, office suites and other software being based in and accessed from the "cloud". Most casual computer users won't see a difference between their normal computing activities and the shift to the cloud. Most regular computer users only really use the internet for their computer interaction. They can get by with a browser.

The move to the cloud is supposed to signify the shift of local programs being retailed in shops to being subscribed to as a service on the net. Microsoft Word for example would no longer be installed on your hard disk but accessed over the internet.

We see this already in Google Documents but the idea is we will see these services less on out local machines - which has its benefits and its drawbacks for suppliers and consumers.

Mike 1972

Liam Byrne wrote: »

P.S. It's nothing new - just a distributed version of the old mainframe/dumb terminal setup.

This idea comes up every decade or so (around the turn of the century there was a lot of shyte talked about how "diskless workstations" were the future) and every time it turns out to be a pile of w@nk.

We have dumb terminals at work and every time I have to use them I find myself wishing death by a particularly virulent strain of pox on whoever decided they were a good idea.

harrywilsoken

My view point on cloud computing is it is be the best service because of portability. The information is also highly secured. Example: Dropbox.

skinny90

Security is still an issue tho,also it differs from service to service best example would be gmail,
it's free cloud based app that links in google docs and other google apps,the drawback is that now with their privacy policy they can do what they want with your data excludes google wallet
Business's especially small to medium size will more than Likly start moving their traditional business model "to the cloud" as it's far far less expensive and more economical to lease the technology rather than built a system in house and then pay for maintenance as well as all the hardware again security is the main risk factor but only time will tell

Capt'n Midnight

harrywilsoken wrote: »

My view point on cloud computing is it is be the best service because of portability. The information is also highly secured. Example: Dropbox.

Secure ?
Do you mean backed up / fault tolerant

or

do you safe from prying eyes ?

no US system is and UK / Oz / Nz / Canada also share data through Echelon, so any thing leaving this island unencrypted is scanned

note: good encryption makes data recovery more difficult , it also increases storage costs since you can't use single instance storage

Hold on to your tinfoil hats people! Cloud computing is stealing your identity! And your house! And your tinfoil hat!

Mr.Biscuits

skinny90 wrote: »

Have you used much cloud based services and what do think of them?

And give yet even more control of my life over to the Illuminati - are you insane??

Capt'n Midnight

Sacramento wrote: »

Hold on to your tinfoil hats people! Cloud computing is stealing your identity! And your house! And your tinfoil hat!

http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/

The government want you to wear tinfoil hats :eek:

Conclusion
The helmets amplify frequency bands that coincide with those allocated to the US government between 1.2 Ghz and 1.4 Ghz. According to the FCC, These bands are supposedly reserved for ''radio location'' (ie, GPS), and other communications with satellites (see, for example, [3]). The 2.6 Ghz band coincides with mobile phone technology. Though not affiliated by government, these bands are at the hands of multinational corporations.

It requires no stretch of the imagination to conclude that the current helmet craze is likely to have been propagated by the Government, possibly with the involvement of the FCC. We hope this report will encourage the paranoid community to develop improved helmet designs to avoid falling prey to these shortcomings.

funk-you

Fook all new about 'the cloud'. Just available to the masses now.

-Funk

ntlbell

funk-you wrote: »

Fook all new about 'the cloud'. Just available to the masses now.

-Funk

I have it running on my C64

Nulty

Nulty wrote: »

The move to the cloud is supposed to signify the shift of local programs being retailed in shops to being subscribed to as a service on the net. Microsoft Word for example would no longer be installed on your hard disk but accessed over the internet.

Microsoft love this. Cloud services finally allow them to introduce rental software. Stop paying and you can't use it.

I don't like this proposed future of everyone carrying around dumb tablets with all their information stored remotely. No internet connection = no data.

Firefox11

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

And give yet even more control of my life over to the Illuminati - are you insane??

Well most people use Facebook is it's kind of a given. All you personal details and pictures of drunken idiots and cats and dogs all squirrelled away on some far off server in a land far far away. I find even using Google maps a bit creepy.

Capt'n Midnight

Firefox11 wrote: »

I find even using Google maps a bit creepy.

www.openstreetmap.org via tor and never start or end a journey at the points you are travelling between


moot if you own a smart phone since they get it anyway , apple, google and microsoft have all said so (haven't heard Blackberry confirm but they let Middle East governments access the server so probably)

--LOS--

dropbox is awesome for keeping college stuff organised, the college notes site can be pretty dodgy and is often offline at times when you most need it so I transfer everything to dropbox, nothing to worry about

Carter P Fly

I don't buy into the whole cloud computing thing. You're essentially taking some random companies word that the hundreds of other random companies they use to form their cloud all have fully secured and fault tolerant , regularly backed up servers and that all these companies are in absolutely no danger of going bankrupt, shut down or blowing up.

skinny90

Carter P Fly wrote: »

I don't buy into the whole cloud computing thing. You're essentially taking some random companies word that the hundreds of other random companies they use to form their cloud all have fully secured and fault tolerant , regularly backed up servers and that all these companies are in absolutely no danger of going bankrupt, shut down or blowing up.

I think you underestimate the " value " of cloud computing and what it offers business wise....and e government (although the government made a hash of things beforehand with info systems vs trad systems)most business that offer cloud serives for home use have been around for ages they have just renamed their platform " cloud " to those who think tablets are away of the future. what's the issue regarding laptop having 3G technology built Iv to them....it will take a long long time for tablets to become as quick and has powerful as laptop

phill106

smash wrote: »

windows ME

No one must EVER mention windows ME

ROFLcopter

The problem with cloud computing is the bloody logistics of trying to fly up there with your laptop

phill106

And what happens on sunny day!






*typed from my computer in a cloud computing data centre*

Capt'n Midnight

Carter P Fly wrote: »

I don't buy into the whole cloud computing thing. You're essentially taking some random companies word that the hundreds of other random companies they use to form their cloud all have fully secured and fault tolerant , regularly backed up servers and that all these companies are in absolutely no danger of going bankrupt, shut down or blowing up.

http://www.megaupload.com/ is costing $9,000 per day, to host one image http://www.megaupload.com/




and 25 Pentabytes of backedup data that no one is allowed access.

Coriolanus

Steam, a bit of google docs and that's it.

bnt

Not everyone is happy with cloud computing. An example is podcaster and former MTV VJ Adam Curry, who's particularly irked about URL redirection: if everyone uses one, and that service goes, all those links are broken. This has already happened (vb.ly was shut down). So, for that and more general reasons, he's gone to the lengths of creating his own "cloud" at home.

jonnny68

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZmYIEo90gs

philologos

smash wrote: »

That's not really cloud computing is it? I'd consider cloud computing as being storing your files in a central location and accessing them from anywhere / sharing them across all your devices simultaneously. Remote desktop was available as part of windows ME if I remember correctly. Possible before that...

It's technically about more than that as well. It also includes the possibility of deploying and executing applications without considering or caring about the physical constraints of the machine. Indeed, virtualisation of many machines over a server farm or a cluster is also what is happening in terms of hosting now.

Application as a service for example is a term that is becoming more and more used as people can deploy an application without renting out a server machine by using services such as Amazon's EC2 and Windows Azure.

entropi

The only real way that I've seen interaction with me and this type of networking, is through email, and through files stored on Steam for playing some games.

I wont claim to know loads about it, but it's there, and can be helpful.

Potatoeman

skinny90 wrote: »

this is my point,the people iv been talking to are in IT but when it comes to this kind of stuff they're completly against it...

It will cost local IT jobs if businesses keep their data in outsourced sites and Ireland is an unlikely hub for foreign countries to store data.

El_Dangeroso

Err, pretty much no-one on this thread actually knows what cloud computing actually is.

*Sits smugly while refusing to explain what it actually is*

philologos

El Dangeroso: When in doubt Wikipedia comes to hand:

Cloud computing is the delivery of computing as a service rather than a product, whereby shared resources, software, and information are provided to computers and other devices as a utility (like the electricity grid) over a network (typically the Internet).

El_Dangeroso

philologos wrote: »

El Dangeroso: When in doubt Wikipedia comes to hand:

And yet still people don't understand what it is.

Sergeant

You can go to an Amazon dashboard and spin up a new server in seconds based on a template. You then use the server for as long as needed before shutting it down. Amazon charge you a ridiculously low sum of money for this convenience. Not having to deal with some condescending nerd in a Megadeath t-shirt nattering on about how much better the version of linux he uses is almost priceless.

Gummy Panda

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

philologos wrote: »

El Dangeroso: When in doubt Wikipedia comes to hand:

And yet still people don't understand what it is.

It's like Tron

Adyx

Potatoeman wrote: »

It will cost local IT jobs if businesses keep their data in outsourced sites and Ireland is an unlikely hub for foreign countries to store data.

Not necessarily true. Microsoft have a very large datacentre in Dublin which they announced they would be expanding to 415,000 sq ft only a couple of months ago.

westendgirlie

Wtf are you lot talking about?

Seachmall

westendgirlie wrote: »

Wtf are you lot talking about?

Best way to store porn, I think.

skinny90

Hp galway have Also invested massively in cloud,regarding Ireland you'll be very surprised what's in store for us,infact a lot of infrastructure is going to be developed in the west part of the country because wait til u get this...The weather is ideal

recylingbin

skinny90 wrote: »

Hp galway have Also invested massively in cloud,regarding Ireland you'll be very surprised what's in store for us,infact a lot of infrastructure is going to be developed in the west part of the country because wait til u get this...The weather is ideal

I heard rocky fields are optimum for building mainframes.

Cloud computing will be de rigeur in 10 years time in much the same way as apple are ubiquotous for morons.

Potatoeman

Adyx wrote: »

Not necessarily true. Microsoft have a very large datacentre in Dublin which they announced they would be expanding to 415,000 sq ft only a couple of months ago.

That would be a for national data storage not international as you don't want to store your data farther than necessary. It would mean the local data storage in certain businesses would be unnecessary leading to job cuts.
Out souring services like this can lead to a lower standards of service as you have less support per head and turn around time for technical issues is longer.
I worked for one company that outsourced some of its application servers in one leg of the business and the support standard dropped as you are dealing with helpdesks that have very little knowledge of what the business actually does and how some of its applications work. Turn around time for issues went from one to four hours to one to two days. If you factor in that the employees are highly paid fund accounts the time they lose due to technical problems worked out more expensive than they saved. The director that outsourced these services to save money had already left when they figured this out.

Adyx

Potatoeman wrote: »

That would be a for national data storage not international as you don't want to store your data farther than necessary. It would mean the local data storage in certain businesses would be unnecessary leading to job cuts.
Out souring services like this can lead to a lower standards of service as you have less support per head and turn around time for technical issues is longer.
I worked for one company that outsourced some of its application servers in one leg of the business and the support standard dropped as you are dealing with helpdesks that have very little knowledge of what the business actually does and how some of its applications work. Turn around time for issues went from one to four hours to one to two days. If you factor in that the employees are highly paid fund accounts the time they lose due to technical problems worked out more expensive than they saved. The director that outsourced these services to save money had already left when they figured this out.

No it's not just national. Irish Times article

Irish Times wrote:

The centre currently provides computing capacity to customers across Europe, the Middle East and Africa. It was the first Microsoft mega data centre built outside of the US, and was designed to support the company's cloud services.

Google and Amazon also have datacentres in Dublin apparently.

I'm not debating the pros and cons of cloud services though. It has its uses, but I like my applications and data local, where I can control it.

philologos

Adyx wrote: »

Not necessarily true. Microsoft have a very large datacentre in Dublin which they announced they would be expanding to 415,000 sq ft only a couple of months ago.

Amazon's EU data centre for cloud computing is in Dublin. I think Microsoft's may be here also. What I do know is they definitely have to have one in Europe due to EU Data Protection laws. If a business wants an application up on Windows Azure the data from the EU can't leave the EU.

AeoNGriM

Paparazzo wrote: »

It's a new buzzword for something that's been happening for years. A load of bollocks. You'll hear your manager in work mention the word "cloud" in meetings in an attempt to sound like they're working with new technologies.

Nah, it's not.

At work, we use a cloud based e-mail service to handle office emails. It's hosted by Microsoft, probably in a secret underground lab somnewhere. We use a simple client on everyones machine to handle email and calendaring, and that has allowed us to retire all of our Exchange servers and free up rack space for other sh!t. Like porn storage and the like.

It's easier to maintain (by virtue of it having no maintenance) and you can always blame someone else when sh!t fcuks up.

timmywex

Cloud computing is massive!

The Corinthian

The 'Cloud' is really only a marketing term. In reality 'cloud' computing has been around for a while if you consider that it is really just software as a service (SaaS) and/or a infrastructure as a service (IaaS). Simple examples that have been around for over ten years (long before the 'cloud') are Hotmail and Rackspace, respectively - indeed, the latter I believe is one of the biggest 'cloud' players out there.

Looking at Rackspace ten years ago, if you wanted to rent out a server, they used to have a nice Web interface that allowed you to pick how many units, bandwidth, CPU, OS, and so on. You pressed a button and the whole thing was set up for you as you chose and paid a monthly rental based upon these specs.

What has happened in the last decade is that they, and others like Amazon, saw a market for more flexible offerings that allow you pay only for what you use (but naturally you end up paying more in the long term for this flexibility).

For me, the 'cloud' is simply a nice marketing term for the direction the Web has been going in for a long time - in reality it's not really that complicated. The idea and what it can provide is potentially excellent to many businesses (not all I stress), but it's actually not a new idea - at least not the basic idea behind it.

That there is so much confusion, and so many confusing terms and acronyms associated with it is more a demonstration of the marketing mystique that has been built around it.

Sykk

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Shuppose I'll explain myself here.

What's the difference between normal hosting & "the Cloud"

You don't own the hardware or maintain it, that's about it.
BUT - you now also don't own your data - big security risk

granted - a few savings in cost of maintenance of a server but does that outweight the potential of having your data robbed, I would think not.

The reason people in IT don't like the cloud.
They tuk r dobs

Bolded for stupidity. :pac:

funk-you

Potatoeman wrote: »

It will cost local IT jobs if businesses keep their data in outsourced sites and Ireland is an unlikely hub for foreign countries to store data.

As a datacentre infrastructure engineer who has worked in most of the DC's in the country and across the UK and Europe. Bollocks.

-Funk

Sykk

Potatoeman wrote: »

It will cost local IT jobs if businesses keep their data in outsourced sites and Ireland is an unlikely hub for foreign countries to store data.

Ehmmm.. Amazon, the worlds largest supplier of cloud infrastructure and customers have a European datacentre located in Kilmainham...

Please stop talking :P You're making my eyes bleed!