Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

bobbysands81

Dempsey wrote: »

The administrators are clearly struggling to get a handle on the financial situation of Rangers.

Talks of 75% wage cuts and everyone keeps their jobs or 50% wage cuts and 6/8 players go.

If things are this bad BEFORE the EBT judgement then surely liquidation is inevitable if they lose it?

Dempsey

From what is currently known, its a real possibility.

IMO, I dont see HMRC agreeing to a CVA with Rangers when they are using this as the test case for several other clubs in Britain that have syphoned far more money. Coming across as a soft touch would only encourage clubs to continue these practices. The threat of HMRC coming in and shutting down a club regardless of size has to become a reality in order to get a higher % of tax compliance, especially in an industry like football where money laundering has become synonymous amongst highly paid people.

KeithAFC

Football does need to get its house in order.

bobmalooka

Dempsey wrote: »

From what is currently known, its a real possibility.

IMO, I dont see HMRC agreeing to a CVA with Rangers when they are using this as the test case for several other clubs in Britain that have syphoned far more money. Coming across as a soft touch would only encourage clubs to continue these practices. The threat of HMRC coming in and shutting down a club regardless of size has to become a reality in order to get a higher % of tax compliance, especially in an industry like football where money laundering has become synonymous amongst highly paid people.

In a way Rangers are very unlucky to be the first club that HMRC are bringing action against in relation to EBT cases. If it was a once off case they would have a reasonable chance of negotiating a CVA but because this is the first part of HMRC's strategy against EBT's they are part of a broader case.

I think its unlikely HMRC will set a precedent of taking a percentage of the debt, forcing Rangers into liquidation would give them a massive advantage when taking action against other clubs.

cruiserweight

Craig Whyte gave a very brief interview to Scotland Tonight outside the administrators office in London, saying Rangers were in financial strife before he came along and redundancies are part of the process of making it better

greendom

Does anyone know which other clubs may fall foul of the HMRC ?

Jelle1880

General assumption is that Rangers are the big test.

If HMRC succeed they will go after some big English clubs, rumour has it the likes of ManU.

greendom

I heard the other night that Arsenal were doing similar things with player contracts as Rangers and then realised that it was against taxation law and backed out.

Jelle1880

No, they apparently settled for 12m with HMRC, they also used EBT's.

bobbysands81

We don't do walking away... from our wages!!!

Dempsey

The admins were given an inch and they tried to take a mile! i.e. players offering 25%, they ask for 100%! A ridiculous and lazy attempt at finding a solution. An offer like that wouldnt fill players with any confidence about future.

KeithAFC

They should just terminate the contracts of most of them and throw in the youngsters.

Jelle1880

Apparently McCoist offered to work for free for the rest of the season, Bartley back to Arsenal (rumoured).

Fuhrer

KeithAFC wrote: »

They should just terminate the contracts of most of them and throw in the youngsters.

Aye, let millions in potential transfers go and throw in some youngsters, who you'll still have to pay

KeithAFC

Fuhrer wrote: »

Aye, let millions in potential transfers go and throw in some youngsters, who you'll still have to pay

I don't see us getting much for them really. Possibly McGregor or Davis but thats it.

Dempsey

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2109018/Rangers-accused-misleading-SFA-secret-deals.html?ITO=1490

Rangers stand accused of failing to properly register players after a former director revealed secretive payments had been consistently excluded from contracts lodged with the SFA.

The embattled Ibrox club are awaiting the outcome of the First Tier Tax Tribunal which will determine the legality or otherwise of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs).

Regardless of whether Rangers are hit with an additional bill of £49million from the so-called 'big tax case', it appears such payments were kept 'off the books' - in direct contravention of SFA registration rules.

Former Ibrox director Hugh Adam, who had a 30-year association with the club until 2002, has told Sportsmail that the club's directors were aware of the arrangement - one he believes could have started as early as the mid-1990s.

'They weren't included in the contracts. They definitely weren't. That was the whole point of them,' he said. 'If they'd been included in the contracts, they would have had to have paid tax on them.

'I don't think a lot of the other directors knew an awful lot about it. David Murray kept everything to himself.

'The directors just wanted to sit in the directors' box. That's all. When I was on the board, I knew all about them.

'I just didn't know the details of them. They became accepted. 'The revenue were seriously challenging them at that point when I was a director.

'People never really asked serious questions about them. "It's perfectly legal" was what they thought.

'It wasn't happening in Britain, so had nothing to do with Britain. All the directors heard about them but didn't take them seriously because they didn't appear in the books.'

Adam's revelation suggests a clear breach of the SFA rulebook - and is a potential embarrassment to current SFA president Campbell Ogilvie, who had a 27-year association with Rangers, many of them spent as secretary.

The SFA rule on registration states: 'All payments made to a player relating to his playing activities must be clearly recorded upon the relevant contract and/or agreement.

'No payment for his playing activities may be made to the player through a third party.'

Adam, the man who funded the redevelopment of Ibrox through Rangers pools, believes payments into discretionary trusts may have gone on well before the turn of the millennium.

It's understood the 'big tax case' relates to EBT payments from 2000 until 2009 but, when questioned if he heard of similar payments in the mid- 1990s, Adam confirmed: 'Without having any specialist knowledge, I'm pretty sure.

'People didn't want to know about them. There was a lot of that (EBTs) going on at the time (I was there).

'You knew it was cheating but some of them not only hoped but believed it was above board. 'It's this thing that when something happens it has to have a beginning and an end, but that wasn't the case with the overseas things.

'It was just something that crept up. It was considered important but not crucial. The fans didn't give a damn one way or another. You could argue that they knew about it but didn't think it was important.

'Maybe they never thought it was as much as it really was. And maybe it wasn't. I don't know if you remember radio stations from ships.

'I don't think they were making a fortune but they weren't costing a lot of money, so no one bothered.

'When I was asked for my opinion on the way the club had been run, I said it was quite obvious how it had got into trouble.'They were doing things they shouldn't have been doing.

'They (EBTs) were always regarded in my time as a bit of a joke. They were getting away with it but nobody really thought they'd get away wi th i t forever. '

It would be an offshore trust - almost like a boat. You could dodge your taxes that way. It wasn't something that you picked up the paper and read about. It was one at a time then grew on a gradual basis.

'The players were very naive. Few of them were the Brain of Britain, of course. If they get the money, they don't give a damn where it's coming from.'

The cheating hits a new level. I hope Rangers burns to the ground if this is true.

Jelle1880

I think the rule that stops that only came into existence in 2006.

amacachi

Similar to when an NRL team breached their salary cap, surely they knew someone would notice a discrepancy at some point? If the money leaves it has to go somewhere. Even if it wasn't on the books it still has to be elsewhere. Laughable stuff really.

lubo_moravcik

'You knew it was cheating but some of them not only hoped but believed it was above board. 'It's this thing that when something happens it has to have a beginning and an end, but that wasn't the case with the overseas things.


'It was just something that crept up. It was considered important but not crucial. The fans didn't give a damn one way or another. You could argue that they knew about it but didn't think it was important.

The rangers, cheats to the core. They all knew about it, but once it started they couldn't stop themselves.

lubo_moravcik

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2012/03/02/time-for-leadership-at-sfa-spl/#respond

Jelle1880

He also said:

'I don't think a lot of the other directors knew an awful lot about it. David Murray kept everything to himself.'

So which one is it ?
Where they fully aware of it, or not ?

But yeah, in 2002 he already said that Murray would ruin Rangers, and was ridiculed after it.

edit: What is it with tims and EUFA ?
Is it that hard to get it right ?

lubo_moravcik

Jelle1880 wrote: »

He also said:

'I don't think a lot of the other directors knew an awful lot about it. David Murray kept everything to himself.'

So which one is it ?
Where they fully aware of it, or not ?

But yeah, in 2002 he already said that Murray would ruin Rangers, and was ridiculed after it.

edit: What is it with tims and EUFA ?
Is it that hard to get it right ?

Oh no, its the spelling police. In that case, What is it with 'bears' and where or were? Is it really so difficult for you to get that right?

By the way, the Blogger on rangerstaxcase has also been getting it right long before Jim Traynor

bobbysands81

Dempsey wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2109018/Rangers-accused-misleading-SFA-secret-deals.html?ITO=1490



The cheating hits a new level. I hope Rangers burns to the ground if this is true.

If true then this is the smoking gun that could decimate Scottish football given the dual roles that many people held in the high echelons of both the SPL and Rangers.

bobbysands81

Jelle1880 wrote: »

He also said:

'I don't think a lot of the other directors knew an awful lot about it. David Murray kept everything to himself.'

So which one is it ?
Where they fully aware of it, or not ?

But yeah, in 2002 he already said that Murray would ruin Rangers, and was ridiculed after it.

edit: What is it with tims and EUFA ?
Is it that hard to get it right ?

A fair point but do you think Hugh Adam is lying?

I'd say that if he is lying then David Murray is going to have a field day suing him for slander. He will won't he???!!!

Jelle1880

bobbysands81 wrote: »

A fair point but do you think Hugh Adam is lying?

I'd say that if he is lying then David Murray is going to have a field day suing him for slander. He will won't he???!!!

Not sure, the letter shown imo was not sufficient proof, there was nothing in it that without a doubt proved that it was a Rangers thing (No header, no signature,...)
I don't think he's lying about it, but I doubt he's really in the know (as he said himself).

It's well known that Murray sort of went at it alone and that other board members didn't have much power at all.

lubo: No need to get your panties in a bunch, it was just a question since I see it from Celtic fans all the time.

bobbysands81

KeithAFC wrote: »

I don't see us getting much for them really. Possibly McGregor or Davis but thats it.

Twitter rumours say that they're the only two you're holding onto.

If true, and you lose the tax case, then liquidation seems inevitable.

In fact unless a very very rich benefactor comes to your rescue (a Whyte Knight?) then I see only liquidation for you guys. That things have gotten this bad without the judgement on the Big Tax Case not yet being known is astonishing, looks like every Rangers fan fell asleep at the wheel and ignored all the evidence that Timmy has been crowing about for the last age.

bobbysands81

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I don't think he's lying, but I also don't think he knows everything about it (as he admits).

It's well known that Murray sort of went at it alone and that other board members didn't have much power at all.

lubo: No need to get your panties in a bunch, it was just a question since I see it from Celtic fans all the time.

It seems fairly well established, though only circumstantial evidence has thus far been publicly produced, that there were dual contracts for players. As I've already said, many Rangers men served in high office in the SPL, if any of these men knew about the existence of the dual contracts or were even involved in them then there are going to be huge repercussions felt for Scottish football and especially for Rangers.

Cheating doesn't get more blatant.

Jelle1880

But the thing is: The rule that should prevent this only came into play in 2005 or 2006.

I know you'll disagree but I fail to see how you can punish a club/people for something which at that point was not necessarily illegal (If it's true).

Beefy78

It was still cheating whether or not it was technically illegal. It was getting an unfair advantage on the pitch by fielding players who Rangers shouldn't have otherwise been able to afford.

J Cheever Loophole

Beefy78 wrote: »

It was still cheating whether or not it was technically illegal. It was getting an unfair advantage on the pitch by fielding players who Rangers shouldn't have otherwise been able to afford.

I have to say that this issue crossed my mind and I was wondering what might the consequences be, i.e. wouldn't the removal of League Championships from the roll of honour be an option?

Am I imagining it or didn't something similar happen in Italy - was it Juve or Inter?

Beefy78

Juve lost their title but that was down to match fixing. I don't think you could strip titles away from Rangers because I suspect that all Clubs will have endulged in the use of financial steroids at one time or other. Maybe not to the extent of Rangers with the EBT case but using tax money as working capital seems to be standard for the industry - hence HMRC's attitude over the last couple of years.

RoryMac

Beefy78 wrote: »

Juve lost their title but that was down to match fixing. I don't think you could strip titles away from Rangers because I suspect that all Clubs will have endulged in the use of financial steroids at one time or other. Maybe not to the extent of Rangers with the EBT case but using tax money as working capital seems to be standard for the industry - hence HMRC's attitude over the last couple of years.

I'd imagine the SFA will be more concerned with the allegations of some Rangers players having 2 contracts during this period, they have announced today that they are investigating this issue and if proved would would be a very serious issue.

I remember talk of a LoI team being caught doing this, anyone know the details on that case?

ColeTrain

SFA Statement..

Independent Inquiry Update
Friday, 02 March 2012

Stewart Regan, the Scottish FA Chief executive, has today provided an update on the progress of the Independent Inquiry into Rangers FC chaired by The Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith.

"We are now in the final stages of our independent inquiry into the situation concerning Rangers FC. The report by The Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith is expected to be completed next week and will go to a Special Board Meeting for consideration.

"It would be inappropriate to make any further comment at this stage in relation to the details gleaned from the inquiry, the potential contents of the report or any possible sanctions.

"We are, however, aware of the most recent allegations made against Rangers FC today by a former director of the club. We shall investigate this matter thoroughly before making any further comment."

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish....cfm?page=2111

Eirebear

Can't wait for Nimmo's Findings.

I loved the first film.

ColeTrain

Rangers staff agree to work for nothing.

Eirebear

ColeTrain wrote: »

Rangers staff agree to work for nothing.

Hoopy would have been in the car park long ago.

ColeTrain

Eirebear wrote: »

Hoopy would have been in the car park long ago.

Rightly so too, he's a well trained pup.

RoryMac

Was that pic of Broxi Bear taken at the cup game against Dundee Utd?

Dempsey

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If true then this is the smoking gun that could decimate Scottish football given the dual roles that many people held in the high echelons of both the SPL and Rangers.

decimate wouldnt be the word I would use to describe the removal of cheats from the scottish game.

bobbysands81

Dempsey wrote: »

decimate wouldnt be the word I would use to describe the removal of cheats from the scottish game.

But if the SPL/SFA were complicit then the game in Scotland will be in tatters and no longer can us Celtic fans be deemed to be paranoid.

Dempsey

bobbysands81 wrote: »

But if the SPL/SFA were complicit then the game in Scotland will be in tatters and no longer can us Celtic fans be deemed to be paranoid.

That boat has already sailed, its called the S.S. Jim Farry.

Nimmo needs to find out who had knowledge of these contracts and did nothing and ban them all indefinitely from any position within Scottish Football. There is an awful cancer within Scottish Football.

Dempsey

Looks like the admins made a huge gaff by pencilling in job cut discussion on an international week. Someone at the club should have been able to explain that certain players would be gone for a large spell of the week and getting anything meaningful done wouldnt be really possible. They seem to be dragging their heels on this issue which is doing the club no favours.

Job cuts alone will not make up the £4.5m needed to break even this season

A Dub in Glasgo

The most astonishing bit of all this is how acceptable it appears to withhold payment to others (not just the taxman) just so you can continue to pay your own players hundreds of thousands per week!

blahfckingblah

RoryMac wrote: »

Was that pic of Broxi Bear taken at the cup game against Dundee Utd?

nah broxi bear didnt bother going to that game,,, he did however come out in force when they went into administration and claim to be loyal and to have never abandoned them

Eirebear

blahfckingblah wrote: »

nah broxi bear didnt bother going to that game,,, he did however come out in force when they went into administration and claim to be loyal and to have never abandoned them

Lol, you'd swear you guys had been getting full houses every week over the last few years.
"Faithfull Through and Through" :rolleyes:

Eirebear

Administrators.

"Decision out of players hands by Monday"
"A number of job losses will happen"
"Invited interested bidders to submit formally by March 16th"
"Getting out of Administration by March 31st (Euro Deadline) a challenge"

Jelle1880

blahfckingblah wrote: »

nah broxi bear didnt bother going to that game,,, he did however come out in force when they went into administration and claim to be loyal and to have never abandoned them

Unlike those 15.000 who didn't bother to show up at Parkhead after we went into administration, and their club had pretty much won the league.

Joyce Country

http://radioplayer.clyde1.com/

quality right now :pac:

poor rangers :cool:

Jelle1880

Funny, never seen you here before.

Or do you only show up when Celtic are doing good and Rangers aren't ?

Joyce Country

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Funny, never seen you here before.

Or do you only show up when Celtic are doing good and Rangers aren't ?

looks like i'll be around for long time so Jelle