Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Jelle1880

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Where is overspending mentioned there?

I was talking about the post above it, regarding Poyet's comments, maybe wasn't that clear

Jelle1880

A pretty interesting interview with one of the administrators, Paul Clark.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17306585?

@BBCAlLamont

PC says no evidence CW has secured creditor status. Says the security he has on record has no value.
PC also says parties who have made their interest in buying club public not necessarily the front-runners.
PC tells me he can't conceive how Craig Whyte can possibly benefit from club, no matter outcome.

legendary.xix

Anything other than Rangers being banished to lowest division will be ridiculous and seriously affect the integrity of Scottish football.

In terms of restructure of their league, could they expand the Premier? If they could bring 6 clubs into their league system, maybe they could be better off with three division of 16 being: Premier, First and Second.

TheBuilder

legendary.xix wrote: »

Anything other than Rangers being banished to lowest division will be ridiculous and seriously affect the integrity of Scottish football.

In terms of restructure of their league, could they expand the Premier? If they could bring 6 clubs into their league system, maybe they could be better off with three division of 16 being: Premier, First and Second.

For going into administration?

As for the second part, no. The other 10 teams refuse restructure because they won't get 2 visits from each OF team a season, so less money.

Dempsey

TheBuilder wrote: »

For going into administration?

As for the second part, no. The other 10 teams refuse restructure because they won't get 2 visits from each OF team a season, so less money.

Thats a minor detail tbh

TheBuilder

Dempsey wrote: »

Thats a minor detail tbh

For the other 10? I don't think so, the less teams there is the more money they get, and that is all they're interested in.

Jelle1880

If I recall several of them were for an extension of the league to a possible 14 clubs.

Dempsey

TheBuilder wrote: »

For the other 10? I don't think so, the less teams there is the more money they get, and that is all they're interested in.

So there is absolutely no chance of them making up a shortfall from 2 away attendances over the course of a season? Not even with the re-introduction of safe standing areas?

We'll see what the outcome of the talks are, I'd be quite confident they'll prove Rangers scaremongers wrong.

Dempsey

Whittaker & Naismith finally agree a 75% wage cut to help avoid redundancies according to the BBC ticker, no article yet. 2 long term injured players digging their heels in when the club is in administration. It shouldnt have taken them this long to get it done.

Jelle1880

Dempsey wrote: »

So there is absolutely no chance of them making up a shortfall from 2 away attendances over the course of a season? Not even with the re-introduction of safe standing areas?

This is something that will only become clear over the course of a few seasons.

Jelle1880

Dempsey

Something for the trophy cabinet! Dont let Craig Whyte see it, he'll sell it for £5!

Coillte_Bhoy

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I was talking about the post above it, regarding Poyet's comments, maybe wasn't that clear

Ah right, maybe the, ahem, quote tags might help:)

TheBuilder

RANGERS were thrown a dramatic lifeline last night as it was revealed the taxman WILL do a deal with the stricken giants.

But the crisis-hit club were warned their £49million battle with HMRC and the £9million bill for unpaid VAT and PAYE will only be resolved if owner Craig Whyte gets the boot.

The Scottish Sun can reveal a compromise deal — sanctioned at Treasury level — is within reach which could see the fallen giants pay back as little as TEN PENCE in the pound.

That would mean instead of paying a whopping £49million penalty, Gers could get off with forking out a paltry £4.9million.

But the negotiations hinge on new owners replacing shamed Whyte — and a company voluntary agreement in place with creditors.

Last night Duff and Phelps joint administrator Paul Clark insisted: "HMRC have said to me that they do not want Rangers to fail.

"There will be negotiations between ourselves, any new buyer and HMRC as to what that percentage will be. Assuming the company goes for a CVA there will be some form of deal done.

"Whether that deal is a 10 per cent deal, a 50 per cent deal or a 100 per cent deal over a period of time, that's all up for grabs.

"I don't suspect it will be a 100 per cent deal.

"Someone said to me that HMRC never accepted anything other than 100p. That is simply not true.

"People may have got that because of the attitude shown towards clubs in the English league.

"English football clubs have the football creditors rule. You don't have that in Scottish football.

"Ultimately a deal can, should and, I believe, will be done to offer HMRC a proper distribution from a CVA."

The Scottish Sun understands that a tax deal with HMRC — whose mascot used to be Hector the Taxman — has been discussed and given the go-ahead at the highest levels of government.

A source said: "This is welcome news for whoever wants to come in and take over Rangers.

"At least anyone coming in knows that HMRC are going to be flexible.

"It is also in their interest as if the club goes into liquidation they will get nothing.

"The deal is only on the table for new owners and NOT Craig Whyte. He has treated HMRC with contempt." The news will be a welcome boost for hard-pressed fans who feared the worst after administrators — who yesterday arrived at Ibrox in a light blue van — launched a last-gasp bid to sell the club.

Duff and Phelps also admitted they might not have enough cash to fulfil the rest of their games this season.

But last night Clark said he was confident the cash-strapped club would stay alive — and get out of administration.

He dismissed the fears of Gers director Dave King — who is planning a takeover with a consortium — that the club could die within weeks.

Clark said: "There has never been a plan for liquidation.

"There has never been a plan to destroy the fabric or history of the club.

"I don't think that we have ever suggested that liquidation is really an option.

"When people talk about liquidation they mean a closure, an end to Rangers Football Club.

"What people really mean is, could there be a sale of the business to a new company and then the old company is liquidated.

"I don't think that is likely but I accept it's still a possibility.

"We are still pushing towards a CVA and that's what we've always been pushing towards.

"I don't fully understand why anyone would suggest that the steps we're taking is a move towards liquidation.

"It has been a challenge and it will continue to be challenging on all aspects and that includes getting an agreement with the players. I am confident we can gain a CVA and be out of administration before the end of the season."

But Clark has urged potential buyers to stop posturing and get around the table.

He added: "We want to make sure that anyone who is really in, is in.

"We want them to show their hand as opposed to just talking about it. There has been a lot of talk.

"We don't think by this time next Friday we'll have our final party that are going to buy on the Monday thereafter. What we do hope is those parties still left next Friday will have properly expressed their interest and we can talk to a smaller contingent who want to move this forward.

"The sooner we can tease out who these buyers are and who these interested parties are the better.

"If that means it then takes another few weeks to finalise the deal then so be it.

"We will have a clearer understanding of where we are going. The talking is over, let's get on with it."

Also its being suggested the Ticketus deal is on the verge of collapsing and Craig Whyte will be 100% responsible to pay them back.

Jelle1880

If that happens I'd imagine certain people on this board here jumping off the Erskine bridge next time they're in Glasgow. :pac:

edit:

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaugReply

To clarify, all #Rangers players have now agreed to wage cuts. Still to be officially signed off though

bobmalooka

Jelle1880 wrote: »

If that happens I'd imagine certain people on this board here jumping off the Erskine bridge next time they're in Glasgow. :pac:

edit:

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaugReply

To clarify, all #Rangers players have now agreed to wage cuts. Still to be officially signed off though

the establishment to the rescue

Jelle1880

Nobody expects the Establishment :cool:

Dempsey

Tis gas to watch ye get excited by the admins positive spin.

Remember, last week they were positive about European Football next year.

Madam

Dempsey wrote: »

Tis gas to watch ye get excited by the admins positive spin.

Remember, last week they were positive about European Football next year.

No harm in that - Poor fans must be starving for some good news(no matter whether its true or not)!

Jelle1880

There's no use in being depressed about everything, laugh a little, it's good for you.

Dempsey

Madam wrote: »

No harm in that - Poor fans must be starving for some good news(no matter whether its true or not)!

Jelle1880 wrote: »

There's no use in being depressed about everything, laugh a little, it's good for you.

The players agreeing a wage cut is something to be very happy with even if it took a ridiculous length of time to get and if several players got min release clauses. You can keep the players for the season and make some money off those who dont see their future there long term. You'll be better off without fully committed players in the long run.

D&P lads have a track record in false hope, i'd be taking what they say with a pinch of salt. There is nothing wrong with that either.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/03/09/dick-advocaat-my-rangers-team-became-champions-so-36m-was-worth-spending-86908-23781336/

"My team became champions etc... etc.." said Advocaat, speaking during a European Championship finalists workshop in Warsaw.

"In that way, the money was worth spending."

Does anyone agree with that? If you have an owner to bail you out on the losses then I suppose he's right, as that was the case at the time, but in terms of trying to build something sustainable, he's talking out his hat.

KeithAFC

Club setting up a fund for supporters to pay towards. Things looking up slightly. Lets hope for the best. No Surrender.

Fuhrer

KeithAFC wrote: »

Club setting up a fund for supporters to pay towards. Things looking up slightly. Lets hope for the best. No Surrender.

If the club are going to take money from the fans to save the club they should be giving them something back, like shares in ownership or something

Jelle1880

Fuhrer wrote: »

If the club are going to take money from the fans to save the club they should be giving them something back, like shares in ownership or something

Might be like that, more info tomorrow I heard.

Madam

KeithAFC wrote: »

No Surrender.

Gawd! When will these dinosaurs die out:rolleyes:

Jelle1880

Dempsey wrote: »

Does anyone agree with that? If you have an owner to bail you out on the losses then I suppose he's right, as that was the case at the time, but in terms of trying to build something sustainable, he's talking out his hat.

In a way.
Advocaat asked for money, Murray gave it, it's not a manager's job to question where the money comes from.

Yes, it was more than other teams could spend but I doubt Advocaat was aware of what was happening.

edit: He did ask for Murray Park, I see that as being something sustainable as it was designed to improve the youth setup, among others.

Madam

Fuhrer wrote: »

If the club are going to take money from the fans to save the club they should be giving them something back, like shares in ownership or something

Hmmm? Yes and give them their dignity etc, don't treat them like sheep and expect them only to be there in the end when the club blatantly breaks all the rules of sportsmanship!

KeithAFC

Fuhrer wrote: »

If the club are going to take money from the fans to save the club they should be giving them something back, like shares in ownership or something

Possibly. You could be right on that one.

Gawd! When will these dinosaurs die out

Just an old saying.

Jelle1880

KETUS have emerged as shock backers of Paul Murray’s Blue Knights consortium who are trying to buy Rangers.

The news will stun fans after chairman Craig Whyte admitted selling future Ibrox season tickets to the London-based company and using the cash to buy the club last May.

Administrators Duff and Phelps are determined to clinch a deal for the club soon and insist there are a number of parties interested in a purchase.

Murray and his Blue Knights are among those high in the running but news that Ticketus are also part of the group will amaze the Rangers support.

Whyte stated that Ticketus paid £20million in return for ticket revenues for the next three seasons in a confession which enraged a fanbase who had been previously been unaware of the dealing.

However, with the club falling into administration last month, Duff and Phelps are seeking buyers for the stricken club and Murray’s Blue Knights are understood to include Ticketus.

Daily Record Online.

Sounds like The Blue Knight thing has shot themselves in the foot here.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Daily Record Online.

Sounds like The Blue Knight thing has shot themselves in the foot here.

Your options arent great,

• Craig Whyte
• The Blue Knights/KETUS
• Liquidation
• ???

Jelle1880

There's supposedly other groups interested too, but that's speculation so far.

Dempsey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17316966

Caley Thistle chairman Kenny Cameron has confirmed Rangers have paid £25,000 of the £40,000 owed for Ibrox club's visit last month.

As a famous Irish Politician once said, "You've turned a corner!" :pac:

Dunno what you are going to do about the Lee Wallace & Alejandro Bedoya payments, they dwarf the fees that you are struggling to pay now.

Jelle1880

The last installments of Wallace's fee are due this summer and next year I think, so no need to get worried about that just yet imo.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/01/19/worried-hearts-bosses-knock-100k-off-lee-wallace-fee-in-bid-to-get-crisis-hit-rangers-to-settle-bill-86908-23706756/

Dempsey

I know that but your financial problems will not be fully sorted come the end of season even if the you get a takeover

the realpigiron

Was watching SSN yesterday there was a positive spin being put on events at Ibrox that may be masking the reality behind what may happen there. With what people like Alex Salmond said a while back as well, there does certainly appear to be an effort to pressure Hector into going easy on Rangers.

I don't think Hector gives a fluck about Rangers though. Hector just wants his money I reckon.

Dempsey

From hijacking charity matches to robbing pension funds, is there a low that Dignity FC wont stoop to?

Jelle1880

What are you on about now ? :rolleyes:

Dempsey

Ah here, I'll spoon feed you the information then

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17340834

Trustees for a pension fund which was considering loaning Rangers almost £3m have claimed the cash may have been released to the club without consent.

Another court date for ye.

Jelle1880

This is all part of the money from Collyer Bristow until Duff and Phelps had it released.
Part of the remaining Ticketus money that Rangers have never seen.

Aye, those pesky thieves within Ibrox.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

This is all part of the money from Collyer Bristow until Duff and Phelps had it released.
Part of the remaining Ticketus money that Rangers have never seen.

Aye, those pesky thieves within Ibrox.

Illegally :rolleyes:

The law of the land seems to be shades of grey for Dignity FC and Craig Whyte cohorts

As said, enjoy the day out in Court!

Jelle1880

So wait, Duff and Phelps had money released illegally ?
I'd call the court if I were you, a new development surely.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So wait, Duff and Phelps had money released illegally ?
I'd call the court if I were you, a new development surely.

It is going to court, March 30, enjoy the day out! :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

My understanding is that the trustees from the pension fund (Jerome Group) said the nearly £3m may have been released to Rangers without consent. Craig Whyte has a connection to this company. This happened just before Rangers went into administration. The implication, if true, is that somebody connected to Whyte 'stole' the money from the pension fund to give to Rangers therefore the Jerome Group are claiming the money (£3m) in the account of Collyer Bristow is theirs and does not belong to Rangers.

Jelle1880

Yes, but Rangers say the money was stuck with Collyer Bristow and Rangers never saw a penny of it.

Which is why they released it because Collyer Bristow had no rights to this.

Now it's up to the court to decide who owes the money (I assume it'll be the pension fund who will simply get it back).

Hardly the 'stealing from a pension fund' that some would like to make of it.

Whyte did this, not Rangers.

A Dub in Glasgo

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Yes, but Rangers say the money was stuck with Collyer Bristow and Rangers never saw a penny of it.

Which is why they released it because Collyer Bristow had no rights to this.

Now it's up to the court to decide who owes the money (I assume it'll be the pension fund who will simply get it back).

Hardly the 'stealing from a pension fund' that some would like to make of it.

Whyte did this, not Rangers.

Before administration, Whyte was Rangers and Collyer Bristow were their lawyers

Dempsey

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Before administration, Whyte was Rangers and Collyer Bristow were their lawyers

Wait, he'll spin it another way :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17348313

Rangers bidder Paul Murray may fail Scottish FA 'fitness test'

Paul Murray has made public some of the details of his consortium's proposed takeover of Rangers, but he may be unable to join the club's new board.

Businessman Douglas Park and London-based pair Scott Murdoch, a property expert, and fund manager John Bennett are some of Murray's Blue Knights.

But Murray's former directorship at Ibrox prior to administration may fall foul of "fit and proper person" rules.

The Scottish Football Association board could block the Scot's involvement.

Although Murray was ousted from the board by Craig Whyte shortly after he bought the club from Sir David Murray, the club's insolvency nine months later raises doubts over him playing an official role in any Scottish club.

Fair funny if the next saviour fails the test aswell

Jelle1880

Good to see the BBC up to their usual.

First of all: It's the SFA that allowed Whyte to take control of Rangers.
After all, they set up this 'fit and proper' thing.

Secondly:

However, it is understood the SFA's legal team are unsure whether the specific rule would be enforceable given Murray had already left.

Seriously ? They're 'unsure' because he wasn't even there anymore when it happened ?

bobmalooka

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Good to see the BBC up to their usual.

First of all: It's the SFA that allowed Whyte to take control of Rangers.
After all, they set up this 'fit and proper' thing.

Secondly:



Seriously ? They're 'unsure' because he wasn't even there anymore when it happened ?

Financial irregularities seem to have occurred while he was there.

Remember these problems didn't occur the day ye went into administration, its an accumulation of over ten years of illegal practices and financial mismanagement and Murray was sitting at the top table during this.

I'm amazed any Rangers fan would object to any future involvement of his being scrutinised.

bobbysands81

I've seen a lot written over the last few weeks about how Craig Whyte won't profit from the sale of Rangers. Given that he owns 85% of the shares in Rangers surely any takeover deal will need his approval and these shares will need to be bought off him? If he holds the aces then he ain't going to sell them for less than what he paid for them (£1). Surely he's going to make a killing on this?

PauloMN

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I've seen a lot written over the last few weeks about how Craig Whyte won't profit from the sale of Rangers. Given that he owns 85% of the shares in Rangers surely any takeover deal will need his approval and these shares will need to be bought off him? If he holds the aces then he ain't going to sell them for less than what he paid for them (£1). Surely he's going to make a killing on this?

I guess if he was found to be an "unfit person to be director", all bets are off. He says he won't take a penny from the sale anyway.