Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Pompey Magnus

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I'm confused...how come Celtic haven't come out and said whether they'd vote Yes or No to the NewCo coming into the SPL?

Not sure, it doesn't appear great though...it looks like they are getting other clubs to do the dirty work for them.

Pompey Magnus

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Just seen on facebook, I found it amusing anyway. Ha

allan mcgonner
tata papac
free wallace
dorin gone
adios bocanegra
steven whitcontract
release mccabe
gone aluko
leave davis
steven naicontract
solong kerkhar

How about Maurice Adieu?

lubo_moravcik

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Not sure, it doesn't appear great though...it looks like they are getting other clubs to do the dirty work for them.

How the hell do you work that out? Seriously, that's a crazy statement right there.
This isn't about Celtic, this is about Newco. If Celtic come out and say yes or no or whatever, then knowing the way the press go in Scotland then it will become all about Celtic. This is the mess of the Newco, leave it with them and never mind Celtic.

Dempsey

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I'm confused...how come Celtic haven't come out and said whether they'd vote Yes or No to the NewCo coming into the SPL?

“We are fully aware of our supporters’ concerns regarding the current situation across Scottish football and the breadth of opinion within our supporter base. The issues are complex and there is much uncertainty.

“Our guiding principle is that we will do what is in the best interests of Celtic Football Club and our supporters, consistent with upholding the interests and reputation of Scottish football. I can also give assurance that we will communicate further and directly with supporters at the appropriate time.”

Celtic said that back in May and have kept quiet ever since. The best thing the club can do is mind their own business for as long as possible. Do you think a yes vote was a possibility for Celtic because they havent said much? SPL clubs wont cross their fans for Sevco, Celtic is no different.

Sevco needs 23 SFL clubs to vote them in!

Dunfermline to be kept in the SPL, the problem is that they have been preparing the whole summer for Div1!

Mr.Nice Guy

I've been following this to some extent and sorry if this is a silly question but would it not be in Celtic's interest for Rangers to be in the SPL? I would have thought a big part of the appeal in the SPL would be the Old Firm clashes? Would Celtic not be hit in the pocket by Rangers being demoted?

Dempsey

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I've been following this to some extent and sorry if this is a silly question but would it not be in Celtic's interest for Rangers to be in the SPL? I would have thought a big part of the appeal in the SPL would be the Old Firm clashes? Would Celtic not be hit in the pocket by Rangers being demoted?

Rangers are being liquidated, they wont be playing football ever again

Do you realise the pressure that fans are putting clubs over this issue? You support Sevco and you are guaranteed to be boycotted by your own fans and the fans of every other club. You stand to lose alot more by backing Sevco to get into the SPL or Div1

Jelle1880

Dempsey wrote: »

Rangers are being liquidated, they wont be playing football ever again

Are you still peddling that **** ?
Deluded (your new favourite word if I'm correct) doesn't come into it.

It probably won't even be in the First Division, but there will still be football played at Ibrox, whether you like it or not.

Anyway, seems like Regan's on a holiday.

Must not be all that important then.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Are you still peddling that **** ?
Deluded (that's your favourite word, isn't it ?) doesn't come into it.

Anyway, seems like Regan's on a holiday.

Must not be all that important then.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/strawpoll-rangers-fans-newco/2029

“I don’t see how they can consider this application, Newco is a new club and should be treated as such, simply owning Rangers assets for me doesn’t automatically make Newco rangers, would Tesco be trying to persuade us that they are Rangers had they bought the assets with the intention of raising them to the ground before building yet another super market? They would have no more right to do so than I would have the right to call myself Tiger Woods if I bought a second hand set of his golf clubs, similarly I wouldn’t expect to take his place on the US PGA tour just because I’ve taken possession of the clubs.”

The penny will drop with you soon enough.

Sevco dont have any players yet and they arent a member of any Football Association yet you think they are Rangers. :rolleyes:

Jelle1880

Ha, Thomson, that's rich.

Have they found out who has threatened him yet ? :rolleyes:

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Ha, Thomson, that's rich.

Have they found out who has threatened him yet ? :rolleyes:

A Rangers fan said that, not Thomson.

Jelle1880

It's an article made up from twitter posts, is this the famous war journalist at work ?

I could make the exact same article stating that the majority of Rangers fans want SPL football, just need to find the right twitter and facebook posts.

Journalism at it's worst.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It's an article made up from twitter posts, is this the famous war journalist at work ?

I could make the exact same article stating that the majority of Rangers fans want SPL football, just need to find the right twitter and facebook posts.

Journalism at it's worst.

You didnt even read the article yet you are able to critique his work. Epic Fail! :rolleyes:

Jelle1880

I take it you missed this part then.

Yes, some who responded could be fans of other clubs impersonating “Rangers” fans.

No way that whoever wrote what you quoted is a Rangers fan.

And it's hardly an article, it's a blog.
And it consists of twitter posts.

Brilliant journalism work.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I take it you missed this part then.



No way that whoever wrote what you quoted is a Rangers fan.

And it's hardly an article, it's a blog.
And it consists of twitter posts.

Brilliant journalism work.

Not surprised to see you look for anything in a desperate attempt to save face. Blog/Article, whats the difference? Why are you getting so pedantic? Thats some might fine cheap point scoring in the face of an analogy that sums up Sevco very well.

I suppose this is not a Rangers fan either?

“I have followed Rangers all my life, saw my first game in 1956, never ever did I think I would see such a day. Murray and Whyte have ruined our club. The only way we can look people in the eye is by starting again, build up our reputation and start again. We must not allow the SFA to use us for financial means, it will only rebound on us.”

I suppose anyone who said or hinted that Rangers are finished couldnt possibly be a Rangers supporter? All Rangers/Sevco supporters think like you?

Savage Tyrant

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I've been following this to some extent and sorry if this is a silly question but would it not be in Celtic's interest for Rangers to be in the SPL? I would have thought a big part of the appeal in the SPL would be the Old Firm clashes? Would Celtic not be hit in the pocket by Rangers being demoted?

Rangers aren't being demoted. They are being wound up. In a few weeks they will cease to exist at all.
Sevco 5088, a brand new company set up in England have purchased their assets with the apparent plan to set up a replica of rangers. But as yet they have no SPL membership, no SFL membership, no "rangers" type name and no playing staff.

Helix

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Are you still peddling that **** ?
Deluded (your new favourite word if I'm correct) doesn't come into it.

It probably won't even be in the First Division, but there will still be football played at Ibrox, whether you like it or not.

just because football is played at ibrox doesn't mean that it's rangers though. for all intents and purposes they'll be acting as the same club, but they won't be. ibrox has been bought as part of the newco taking rangers' assets, has it not? west ham playing in the olympic stadium won't be the great british olympics team, for example

i get where you're coming from here, but like it or not, the new team isn't rangers. it's rangers v2.0, a brand new club that has taken over from rangers. it'll be a different parent company, different employees, different playing staff, different club name etc. it'll always be bonded to rangers fc, but it'll never be the same club when you get down to it

Kirby

To be frank it's basically the same club. This isn't an AFC Wimbledon job. They will play in the same stadium, populated by the same fans, wearing the same kit with mostly the same players. Some will leave on free transfers as is their right....but many will stay. While legally and technically it's a new club, the fans of Rangers and other clubs will still consider it the same and will view past glories and histories as part of the club. We will still see the same vitriolic rivalry between the fans on derby day and the same buildup when they play Celtic.

Lets not get carried away. Rangers wont just disappear. The only question is what division they end up in and what punishment will be handed out.

lubo_moravcik

Kirby wrote: »

To be frank it's basically the same club. This isn't an AFC Wimbledon job. They will play in the same stadium, populated by the same fans, wearing the same kit with mostly the same players. Some will leave on free transfers as is their right....but many will stay. While legally and technically it's a new club, the fans of Rangers and other clubs will still consider it the same and will view past glories and histories as part of the club. We will still see the same vitriolic rivalry between the fans on derby day and the same buildup when they play Celtic.

Lets not get carried away. Rangers wont just disappear. The only question is what division they end up in and what punishment will be handed out.

Rangers as they were are dead. They are no more. A Newco might do all of the above, but there is more chance of the steak I had for dinner last night springing to life than Rangers FC 1872-2012.

billybudd

Below might clear up the misunderstanding that seems to be some peoples opinion on Rangers and Newco.

:pac:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rangers_Football_Club_Ltd

Here is the clue.

One was founded in 1872 and the other was found in 2012.

kryogen

So what division will they be playing in then? Will they be forced to go to division 3 or will it be the relatively easy task of playing division 1 for a year before going back to the SPL?

PauloMN

kryogen wrote: »

So what division will they be playing in then? Will they be forced to go to division 3 or will it be the relatively easy task of playing division 1 for a year before going back to the SPL?

To be decided. Talk of Div 1 which is a disgrace. Div 3 is where any new club should apply.

The fact that the football authorities in Scotland are a complete joke means they could be playing in Div 1.

PauloMN

And here we go, Dunfermline looking to take the place of Rangers in the SPL:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18589163

This should get interesting. They'll have a fight on their hands from Dundee of course.

The SPL/SFA have plenty on their hands to deal with without trying to completely restructure a league before the new season starts ffs!! Added to that are European qualifiers starting next month - clubs need to know where they stand.

PauloMN

Double post.

Savage Tyrant

A bit of visual perspective.

Dempsey

there is no rule or precedent to allow dundee to take the club 12 spot. it either dunfermline takes it or the spl continues with 11 clubs. the rules are badly written for this scenario. no surprises there!

also, rangers arent dead yet. theyll still be administration when the season starts. hmrc are building a case against murray and whyte for the tax liability

Savage Tyrant

Lee Wallace is the first to announce (to my knowledge) that he intends to turn out for training this week as per STV website.
Is it ironic that he's never fully been paid for since his move from Hearts?

Follow, Follow, he will follow Sevco.

cruiserweight

Raith Rovers have come out and said no to newco in Division 1 according to Chris McLaughlin

https://twitter.com/#!/BBCchrismclaug

Dempsey

LOL, has Charles Green lodged an SFL application yet? Look like the whole of Scottish Football will have to point out the obvious before he'll do the right thing.

kryogen

Cant see any of the SPL clubs coming out and voting yes now considering the fate has been sealed already, makes no sense, may aswell all just vote no now rather then risk alienating your club from the others or your own fans by voting yes when they cant win the vote anyway.

Dempsey

Falkirk say No to Rangers being put into Div1. Did people actually think turkeys would vote for christmas?

Helix

Kirby wrote: »

To be frank it's basically the same club. This isn't an AFC Wimbledon job. They will play in the same stadium, populated by the same fans, wearing the same kit with mostly the same players. Some will leave on free transfers as is their right....but many will stay. While legally and technically it's a new club, the fans of Rangers and other clubs will still consider it the same and will view past glories and histories as part of the club. We will still see the same vitriolic rivalry between the fans on derby day and the same buildup when they play Celtic..

do you genuinely believe that players will stick around to play in the third division? Because they won't

If rangers hold on to more than a handful of their squadl it'll be a miracle

fionnsda

The Laughing Tim

PauloMN

Assuming Sevco are refused entry to the SPL which now looks certain, what's the next move if they want to try to gain entry into Div 1? Is each division going to have to hold a vote of all clubs on the matter?

I'm beginning to think there'll be no football at all in Ibrox next season. Even if they were to apply now for Div 3 membership and SFA membership, will it all be done and dusted by the time the new season starts?

Dempsey

Helix wrote: »

do you genuinely believe that players will stick around to play in the third division? Because they won't

If rangers hold on to more than a handful of their squadl it'll be a miracle

The picture will be very clear on Thursday as Sevco are to pay people for the 1st time.

I think by tomorrow night we will have over 8 SFL clubs stating their position on the matter and that Div3 is Sevco's only course. You'll see alot of players make up their minds very quickly then!

PauloMN wrote: »

Assuming Sevco are refused entry to the SPL which now looks certain, what's the next move if they want to try to gain entry into Div 1? Is each division going to have to hold a vote of all clubs on the matter?

I'm beginning to think there'll be no football at all in Ibrox next season. Even if they were to apply now for Div 3 membership and SFA membership, will it all be done and dusted by the time the new season starts?

Sevco will need to make an application the SFL and they need 22 clubs out of 29, to gain entry. The vote takes place 5 days after the application is received. If they indicate that they want to be placed into Div1, their application will fail imo

EDIT

Jamie Ness has refused to join Sevco and STV reports that 2 more are to be announced.

Helix

the new club will hardly be happy to pay SPL wages in div 3 either, particularly with no european football and no tv month of any real note

Dempsey

Lee Wallace & Lee McCulloch are the only 2 players to say that they will turn up for preseason training. I bet that Wallace will be sold before the window closes and McCulloch will be asked to take a pay cut.

Beefy78

If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

We all support football clubs. Not Limited Companies. Manchester United Ltd were only formed in 1990 but the club which Beckham, Cantona, Giggs and the rest played for is the same club that Robson, Best and Charlton played for.

Regardless of which division Rangers are in next season, they're still the same club. It seems from reading the last few pages that Celtic fans know this deep down or else they wouldn't be so keen to rub Rangers fans's noses in it. The first time 'new' Rangers play Celtic, Celtic fans will no doubt be just as determined to get one voer Rangers as they ever were. That surely wouldn't be the case if it was a new club.

I don't support either side (although I do have a Celtic jersey at home somewhere!), as an outsider I just think the whole thing is a shambles. Football starts in a few weeks and no one even knows where Rangers will be playing or who they will have available to play.

PauloMN

Beefy78 wrote: »

If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

Not the same as the Rangers issue. You would not have liquidated a corporate entity which was encompassing a club.

What you are talking about is what every football club has done in the past - started as a club and then registered as a limited company. It's the same entity just changing form, not an entity being liquidated and asset stripped.

Dempsey

We'll be rubbing their noses in it because we'll know that its Rangers fans that are supporting another club pretending that nothing has changed!

jack presley

PauloMN wrote: »

Beefy78 wrote: »

If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

Not the same as the Rangers issue. You would not have liquidated a corporate entity which was encompassing a club.

What you are talking about is what every football club has done in the past - started as a club and then registered as a limited company. It's the same entity just changing form, not an entity being liquidated and asset stripped.

But his point about the Celtic fans wanting to get one over on the newco is valid. You can imagine the songs they will come up with slagging off the situation Rangers got into. If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?

Dempsey

jack presley wrote: »

But his point about the Celtic fans wanting to get one over on the newco is valid. You can imagine the songs they will come up with slagging off the situation Rangers got into. If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?

We'll be slagging Rangers supporters for supporting a new club. :rolleyes:

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

#SFA tell newco #Rangers to get their application for SFA membership in by Friday.

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

The #SFA application must include fit and proper details from administrators re Charles Green and consortium. #Rangers

Surely he'll have to reveal where he's getting the money from before he can be considered a fit and proper person? Last thing Scottish Football needs is another cowboy. Keith Jackson reckons Sevco are heading straight for administration!

Helix

jack presley wrote: »

If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?

because they didn't like rangers fans when they were rangers fans, they're not going to become their mates now that they've had to go support a new club - they're going to slag the unmerciful crap out of them over it

as any set of fans would do if their main rivals went under and the fans moved to a new club

Zebra3

Beefy78 wrote: »

If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

We all support football clubs. Not Limited Companies. Manchester United Ltd were only formed in 1990 but the club which Beckham, Cantona, Giggs and the rest played for is the same club that Robson, Best and Charlton played for.

Regardless of which division Rangers are in next season, they're still the same club.

Yes, many clubs have changed their holding company, but what is happening here is that Rangers that was founded in 1872 is ceasing to exist. It is not just a change of holding companies.

The new Rangers has to apply to the SFA for membership. If it was the same club, they wouldn't have to do that.

The same thing has happened in the LoI. Derry City was expelled from the LoI at the end of the 2009 season and went into liquidation. A new club was set up and had to apply for FAI membership and get a new licence to compete in the LoI.

In 2010, Cork City Football Club ceased to exist and a new club Cork City FORAS Co-op was set up. Before the start of the 2007 season, Limerick FC was denied a LoI licence was liquidated. A new club Limerick 37 was set up.

You cannot just buy a defunct club's history.

If the role's were reversed there's not a hope in hell that Rangers fans would be claiming a new Celtic was the same as the old club.

bren2001

In terms of fairness "Rangers" should be booted to Div 3, but it will have huge effects on the SPL. I know I will probably end up tuning into far less games, its sad to see but its only fair.

Helix

bren2001 wrote: »

In terms of fairness "Rangers" should be booted to Div 3, but it will have huge effects on the SPL. I know I will probably end up tuning into far less games, its sad to see but its only fair.

would lapsed fans of non old firm clubs not be more likely to have their interest rekindled now that european or even champions league qualification is a possibility though?

PauloMN

jack presley wrote: »

But his point about the Celtic fans wanting to get one over on the newco is valid. You can imagine the songs they will come up with slagging off the situation Rangers got into. If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?

Because they'll need to be reminded: 0 titles, 0 cups, 0 history.

Dempsey

Zebra3 wrote: »

If the role's were reversed there's not a hope in hell that Rangers fans would be claiming a new Celtic was the same as the old club.

They tried it with Celtic's history after Celtic became a PLC in 94.

Beefy78

PauloMN wrote: »

Not the same as the Rangers issue. You would not have liquidated a corporate entity which was encompassing a club.

What you are talking about is what every football club has done in the past - started as a club and then registered as a limited company. It's the same entity just changing form, not an entity being liquidated and asset stripped.

That's just semantics. Whether a company has been liquidated or it has been wound down as it has been replaced by a succeeding entity, the point is the same. There's a clear seperation between a football club and the legal entity which runs it.

I'm an infrequent reader of this thread but I'm sure that the AFC Wimbledon/MK Dons case has been mentioned in here more than once. That's a clear precident of where the history of a club has been firmly detached from the legal entity which technically owned it. AFC Telford, Aldershot Town, Scarborough, Accrington Stanley and Chester City are all further examples of where the history and (albeit limited) honours have been transferred from liquidated clubs to their subsequent successors.

Fiorentina is another example from further afield. Try telling a Fiorentina fan that they can't claim either of their Serie A titles.

that all said, if this was happening my club's rivals, you're damned right that I'd be telling them that their club was dead and that they had no history

Eirebear

Helix wrote: »

would lapsed fans of non old firm clubs not be more likely to have their interest rekindled now that european or even champions league qualification is a possibility though?

lol - have you looked at Scotland's slide in the Co-efficient tables lately?

Unless Celtic have an absolutely extraordinary run in Europe this season, it's only going to get worse.
Scotland will soon be on a level with the LOI when it comes to European qualification.

bren2001

Helix wrote: »

would lapsed fans of non old firm clubs not be more likely to have their interest rekindled now that european or even champions league qualification is a possibility though?

Yeah youd expect Motherwell, Dundee fans and the like to tune in a bit more as they will certainly do their best to win the title/get CL, but I think you lose more than you gain. More Rangers fans are lost than new/lapsed fans gained, I'd still expect the Rangers fans to tune in to the SPL but face it, most of them will just watch the EPL more.