Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Beefy78

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yes, many clubs have changed their holding company, but what is happening here is that Rangers that was founded in 1872 is ceasing to exist. It is not just a change of holding companies.

No, what is happening here is that the Ltd Co formed in 1899 is ceasing to exist.

Dempsey

Beefy78 wrote: »

Fiorentina is another example from further afield. Try telling a Fiorentina fan that they can't claim either of their Serie A titles.

Put one in front of me and I'd tell him

Buying intellectual property of a defunct club doesnt entitle you to the history of that defunct club. To think that you can is delusional.

PauloMN

Beefy78 wrote: »

No, what is happening here is that the Ltd Co formed in 1899 is ceasing to exist.

So if the club is the same, why are they having to apply for membership of the SFL? It's a new club, simple as that. Surely if the club was a seperate entity it would stay in the SPL.

Zebra3

Beefy78 wrote: »

AFC Telford, Aldershot Town, Scarborough, Accrington Stanley and Chester City are all further examples of where the history and (albeit limited) honours have been transferred from liquidated clubs to their subsequent successors.

Can you provide any links for the above?

Zebra3

Beefy78 wrote: »

No, what is happening here is that the Ltd Co formed in 1899 is ceasing to exist.

As is the football club.

Dempsey

PauloMN wrote: »

So if the club is the same, why are they having to apply for membership of the SFL? It's a new club, simple as that. Surely if the club was a seperate entity it would stay in the SPL.

They dont have SFA membership yet, they arent playing in a recognised football league according to the SFA, their owner hasnt passed a fit and proper persons test, he doesnt have a business plan yet, they cannot label themselves Rangers until Rangers(in administration) is liquidated which is months away, they have no leagues or cups, they only have 2 players at the moment (which they cannot afford to keep for long at this moment in time) yet some think its the same club, LOL!

kippy

This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.

Helix

kippy wrote: »

This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.

the latest spl tv deal was £80m for 4 years... at an even share that's less than £7m per club per season, and it's mickey mouse money to sky. i can't see it being that big an issue financially surely. clubs each lose 2 home games against rangers, and the small receipts from the 2 away games, again would that damage them that much?

that said i dont follow the spl

Dempsey

kippy wrote: »

This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.

Im sure you have detailed information about this impending danger???!

Helix wrote: »

the latest spl tv deal was £80m for 4 years... at an even share that's less than £7m per club per season, and it's mickey mouse money to sky. i can't see it being that big an issue financially surely. clubs each lose 2 home games against rangers, and the small receipts from the 2 away games, again would that damage them that much?

that said i dont follow the spl

Aberdeen says it would take the club to sell 300 extra season books to offset the loss of Rangers.

EDIT



The offices of hampden in full swing! :rolleyes:

PauloMN

kippy wrote: »

This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.

And, prey tell, what the fcuk can Celtic fans do about it (other than enjoy the ride)?

It is completely out of our control.

You attitude is hilarious!

Helix

Dempsey wrote: »

Aberdeen says it would take the club to sell 300 extra season books to offset the loss of Rangers.

and is that wholly unrealistic? 300 season tickets is hardly millions of pounds like

kippy

Dempsey wrote: »

Im sure you have detailed information about this impending danger???!



Aberdeen says it would take the club to sell 300 extra season books to offset the loss of Rangers.

What detailed information do you need.
If rangers disappear as an entity or move (someone as the same entity) down a few divisions for a few years (minimum three I reckon) the interest just wont be there. Celtic cantering to league titles? Great TV viewing, no Rangers Celtic Derbies, the whole rangers fanbase, or what is left of it watching a different league.
A team like rangers has also helped Scottish football get a place or two in the champions league over the years, these till drop off.
The interest in scottish football just wont be there.

Helix

kippy wrote: »

The interest in scottish football just wont be there.

it might improve interest in scottish football though, long term. clubs who never had a hope at finishing higher than 3rd now have a shot at 2nd. celtic won't keep pumping money in to sign a higher calibre of players because they won't need to, and won't be able to. that means that other teams will catch up a bit, perhaps a lot, over a few years. the league would be more competitive. the old firm that people complained about dominating the league and making it pointless has been broken

i see plenty of reason for this to act as a reinvigorating factor in the interest of the game in scotland tbh

or maybe there are no fans there apart from glory hunting old firm ones, and nobody will care at all

as far as non old firm teams are concerned whats the difference between celtic winning the league at a canter every year or celtic or rangers winning it at a canter every year? the answer is that there's one less of them now, so it's a big difference

Dempsey

Helix wrote: »

and is that wholly unrealistic? 300 season tickets is hardly millions of pounds like

The main fans group did the number crunching and handed the information to the club who's own accountant agreed with their assessment. If I find the article again, I'll edit this post.

EDIT

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4371930/Rival-fans-want-Light-Blues-dumped-in-Div-3.html

“Financial considerations should not be the first thing here — they should not over-ride integrity and fair play.

“We keep hearing how financially important Rangers are to the SPL and that they should be given special consideration because of money.

“But we gave figures to the club and they were scrutinised by the chief executive, who is an accountant, and he did not take issue with them.

“It only takes 300 season ticket holders to wipe out the benefits of having Rangers in the SPL.

Beefy78

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can you provide any links for the above?

Here's Chester's Club site claiming history dating back to 1885:
http://www.chester-city.co.uk/

And their honours list, proudly claiming their three Cheshire Premier Cup and Cambridgeshire Professional Cup success:
http://www.chester-city.co.uk/honours.asp

AFC Telford claiming a club history and honours back to 1872:
http://www.afctelfordunited.co.uk/a/club-history-24498.html

As of 2007, Wimbledon FC's club history were officially transferred from MK Dons to AFC Wimbledon

http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/honours.php?Psection_id=4&Psub_section_id=7&squad=

Aldershot's site gives a mixed message to be fair, and their club records do only specifically reference the club from their 1992 re-birth onwards although the 1926-92 club has it's own bio and records page on the site, including referencing that 10-1 1990 defeat to Southend United in the Leyland Daf Trophy which I'm sure that you all remember every bit as well as I do

As I said, if this was my club's rival I'd be loving every second of it and would be revelling in it. As a football supporter though I just think the whole thing is desperately sad. I know that from my perspective that I'll be considering the new club to be a continuation of the old club. I don't believe that to be deluded, I believe it to be an acknowledgement that we as football fans support football clubs and not limited companies or PLCs.

bren2001

Dempsey wrote: »

The main fans group did the number crunching and handed the information to the club who's own accountant agreed with their assessment. If I find the article again, I'll edit this post.

Financially over one season that may be the difference between Rangers being in the league and not being in the league. If you look to the short term its not a huge issue as the clubs will get by.

Whats worrying is the long term. Like it or like it not the Old Firm derby kept interest in the SPL. Rangers not being in the league makes it far less competitive for the next few years. What is interesting is that the league has the chance to reform itself to be more competitive in a few years time. This could be a blessing in disguise but with the state the SFA is in I think things will just get worse.

Helix

the whole argument about past honours is a bit silly to be honest. everyone knows that newco came from rangers. they're not the same club, but they're from the remains of the old one. officially listed honours don't matter a damn really, let's be honest. new rangers and old rangers will be seen as the same by most people at the end of the day. they ARENT the same club, but i dont really see why the honours are such a point of contention

rangers won whatever they won up to 2012, then they disappeared and the new club appeared. fans of the new club were fans of rangers. it doesnt make past honours disappear

Jelle1880

The way Green is behaving I doubt we'll be allowed in any league.

What I find weird though is why Celtic are so quiet...
It's not like anybody expects them to vote 'Yes', is it ?

Dempsey

bren2001 wrote: »

Financially over one season that may be the difference between Rangers being in the league and not being in the league. If you look to the short term its not a huge issue as the clubs will get by.

Whats worrying is the long term. Like it or like it not the Old Firm derby kept interest in the SPL. Rangers not being in the league makes it far less competitive for the next few years. What is interesting is that the league has the chance to reform itself to be more competitive in a few years time. This could be a blessing in disguise but with the state the SFA is in I think things will just get worse.

Who said one season?

No Rangers doesnt make the SPL less competitive. Removing a club that has cheated for over a decade can only improve competition and sporting integrity.

Savage Tyrant

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The way Green is behaving I doubt we'll be allowed in any league.

What I find weird though is why Celtic are so quiet...
It's not like anybody expects them to vote 'Yes', is it ?

I thought it for a while tbf.
Celtic are likely just sitting back and watching it all unfold. As it stands we can't be accused of piling pressure on any other club to vote either way. It's moving along nicely without Celtic wading in. Why declare your hand if you don't actually have to?

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The way Green is behaving I doubt we'll be allowed in any league.

What I find weird though is why Celtic are so quiet...
It's not like anybody expects them to vote 'Yes', is it ?

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

If Celtic make a statement about abstaining or voting no then you see several articles about Celtic sowing it into Sevco and its just bad publicity

bren2001

Dempsey wrote: »

Who said one season?

No Rangers doesnt make the SPL less competitive. Removing a club that has cheated for over a decade can only improve competition and sporting integrity.

How can you forecast the effect of not having Rangers in the league past one season? Next season the effect is 300, I expect it will be more at the end of next season if Celtic walk the league.

Celtic will decide how competitive the league is going to be, none of the other teams have the financial strength they do (which isn't a lot). Their aim will be to push on in Europe so youd expect them to try and buy good players. Its hard to see what team can stand up to them and push for the title. Saying that, the competitiveness for 2nd place is now extremely high. I suppose the league is more AND less competitive, depends which way you look at it.

Dempsey

bren2001 wrote: »

How can you forecast the effect of not having Rangers in the league past one season? Next season the effect is 300, I expect it will be more at the end of next season if Celtic walk the league.

Celtic will decide how competitive the league is going to be, none of the other teams have the financial strength they do (which isn't a lot). Their aim will be to push on in Europe so youd expect them to try and buy good players. Its hard to see what team can stand up to them and push for the title. Saying that, the competitiveness for 2nd place is now extremely high. I suppose the league is more AND less competitive, depends which way you look at it.

You seem to be able to do it no bother! :rolleyes:

Aberdeen fans did some number crunching, they asked the club chairman, an accountant to validate the information and he did. 300 season tickets offsets Rangers for them.

Jelle1880

Ha, Aberdeen, the club whose fans live for 1 game, and 1 game only.

I would not count them among the clubs that could now fight for second place, considering their performances over the last seasons.

kippy

bren2001 wrote: »

How can you forecast the effect of not having Rangers in the league past one season? Next season the effect is 300, I expect it will be more at the end of next season if Celtic walk the league.

Celtic will decide how competitive the league is going to be, none of the other teams have the financial strength they do (which isn't a lot). Their aim will be to push on in Europe so youd expect them to try and buy good players. Its hard to see what team can stand up to them and push for the title. Saying that, the competitiveness for 2nd place is now extremely high. I suppose the league is more AND less competitive, depends which way you look at it.

Won't Celtics place in europe come under serious threat in the next few years?

Jelle1880

Nah, they'll ask UEFA to allow them to play all their games at home :pac:

bren2001

Dempsey wrote: »

You seem to be able to do it no bother! :rolleyes:

Aberdeen fans did some number crunching, they asked the club chairman, an accountant to validate the information and he did. 300 season tickets offsets Rangers for them.

A season ticket is £293, to keep is simple call is £300, 300 * 300 = £90,000. So the net effect of Rangers leaving the SPL is about £1.1 million a year (to all the clubs). I cannot see the figure being that low. TV rights for next season will go down by more than that if Celtic walk the league. The Accountant at Aberdeen needs to check those figures again and reforecast them. Rangers are worth more than that to the SPL.

Dempsey

kippy wrote: »

Won't Celtics place in europe come under serious threat in the next few years?

Champions of Scotland go through 2 rounds of qualifiers, how can it get much worse? Another round against the likes of champions of Iceland etc? I dont think it can get much more difficult tbh just shorten players holidays is all.

bren2001 wrote: »

A season ticket is £293, to keep is simple call is £300, 300 * 300 = £90,000. So the net effect of Rangers leaving the SPL is about £1.1 million a year. I cannot see the figure being that low. TV rights for next season will go down by more than that if Celtic walk the league. The Accountant at Aberdeen needs to check those figures again and reforecast them. Rangers are worth more than that to the SPL.

Why dont you ring Greig Ingram & Duncan Fraser and tell them about your startling discovery! You clearly know Aberdeens finances and how to forecast future income better that their own chief executive and accountant!

Even I can see that you have ignored certain considerations

kippy

Dempsey wrote: »

Champions of Scotland go through 2 rounds of qualifiers, how can it get much worse? Another round against the likes of champions of Iceland etc? I dont think it can get much more difficult tbh just shorten players holidays is all.



Why dont you ring Greig Ingram & Duncan Fraser and tell them about your startling discovery! You clearly know Aberdeens finances and how to forecast future income better that their own chief executive and accountant!

Even I can see that you have ignored certain considerations

I assume that is two rounds of qualifiers to the CL?
What happens if they lose that automatic right to CL qualification? *I don't know whether that is possible or not.

Dempsey

kippy wrote: »

I assume that is two rounds of qualifiers to the CL?
What happens if they lose that automatic right to CL qualification? *I don't know whether that is possible or not.

Automatic CL qualification was lost years ago. The champions of every country under UEFA are entitled to enter the champions qualifier route, coefficients dictate what stage you have to start in. Currently Celtic have 2 rounds to negotiate and we are seeded for the 3rd round.

kippy

Dempsey wrote: »

Automatic CL qualification was lost years ago. The champions of every country under UEFA are entitled to enter the champions qualifier route, coefficients dictate what stage you have to start in. Currently Celtic have 2 rounds to negotiate and we are seeded for the 3rd round.

Would having a weaker team (ie not ranger as they have been for the past decade) effect the co-efficients? (in the medium to long term)

bren2001

Dempsey wrote: »

Why dont you ring Greig Ingram & Duncan Fraser and tell them about your startling discovery! You clearly know Aberdeens finances and how to forecast future income better that their own chief executive and accountant!

Even I can see that you have ignored certain considerations

I'm clearly not an accountant, I took directly what they said, multiplied it by the amount of a season ticket got the figure, thats what they are saying it will take to fill the gap. Clearly there are more considerations! All Im doing is pointing out that the effect of Rangers is more than £90,000. The accountant looked over the figures, I'm sure Aberdeen know exactly how much it is going to cost them, I don't believe for a second its 300 season tickets. Even if it is, thats a lot of extra season tickets to shift.

Dempsey

kippy wrote: »

Would having a weaker team (ie not ranger as they have been for the past decade) effect the co-efficients? (in the medium to long term)

As said we'd probably drop into the 2nd round of qualifiers. How does our place in Europe 'come under serious threat'?

bren2001 wrote: »

I'm clearly not an accountant, I took directly what they said, multiplied it by the amount of a season ticket got the figure, thats what they are saying it will take to fill the gap. Clearly there are more considerations! All Im doing is pointing out that the effect of Rangers is more than £90,000. The accountant looked over the figures, I'm sure Aberdeen know exactly how much it is going to cost them, I don't believe for a second its 300 season tickets. Even if it is, thats a lot of extra season tickets to shift.

If the fans group was wrong, im pretty sure the accountant would have told them why they were wrong. He didnt

kippy

Dempsey wrote: »

As said we'd probably drop into the 2nd round of qualifiers. How does our place in Europe 'come under serious threat'?

Isn't the co-efficient worked out by the countries clubs performances in Europe? The higher the co-efficient, the more chance another club from that country can try gain european qualification and indeed the less rounds they have to go through?
Having only one team "barely" compete in Europe (celtic) and the next best team (who knows - but they wont be getting too far in europe) have a direct knock on effect to the co-efficient and over time this will result in either less teams playing top european football and them finding an ever more difficult route to get there?
Isn't that a serious threat?

Eirebear

kippy wrote: »

Would having a weaker team (ie not ranger as they have been for the past decade) effect the co-efficients? (in the medium to long term)

Scotland are currently sitting 18th, however this is mainly due to the fact that the points from the year of rangers UEFA Cup run are still included.
As of next year, they won't be.

Currently Scotland has 2 qualifying places in the CL, although realistically only Celtic have a chance.
Scotland also have Dundee Utd, Hearts and St Johnstone all facing qualifiers for the Europa League - given recent history it will be a surprise if more than one of them qualify for the groups, if indeed any at all.

Without those points (10.25) Scotland's average over the past 4 years is around 2.5 so in effect the loss will equate to around 7.75.
As things stand, that will drop Scotland to 28th, below Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia and the likes of Romania, all countries who are having more success on the European stage than Scotland have for years. (N.B it will leave them 5 places above Ireland)

That will leave Scotland with 1 CL Place (The same route as Celtic have at the moment) and 3 Europa League places.

Celtic will have to hold Scottish football in that position single handedly, unless the other clubs seriously buck up their act.

As Dempsey says, the only thing that can happen if things drop further is an extra qualifying round - but i think he's got the blinkers on slightly if he thinks that won't affect the players that Celtic can attract, or the sponsorship money that the club brought in.

Basically, unless Celtic can make themselves into a Rosenberg style team and become a mainstay in the group stages and are supported by a Motherwell or a Hearts in the Europa league - Scottish Football is in big trouble when it comes to Europe, and will be seen on a par with ireland & finland before long.

(Also, this was happening prior to Rangers troubles - now it's simply a matter that is in Celtic's hands imo)

A_Sober_Paddy

kippy wrote: »

Isn't the co-efficient worked out by the countries clubs performances in Europe? The higher the co-efficient, the more chance another club from that country can try gain european qualification and indeed the less rounds they have to go through?
Having only one team "barely" compete in Europe (celtic) and the next best team (who knows - but they wont be getting too far in europe) have a direct knock on effect to the co-efficient and over time this will result in either less teams playing top european football and them finding an ever more difficult route to get there?
Isn't that a serious threat?

But as things stand Scottish league are standing 18th in Europe, even if the league drops 20 places the league will still have the same number of places in Europe, the only affect it will have is on the rounds at which teams enter each competition.

A_Sober_Paddy

Eirebear wrote: »

Scotland are currently sitting 13th, however this is mainly due to the fact that the points from the year of rangers UEFA Cup run are still included.
As of next year, they won't be.

Currently Scotland has 2 qualifying places in the CL, although realistically only Celtic have a chance.
Scotland also have Dundee Utd, Hearts and St Johnstone all facing qualifiers for the Europa League - given recent history it will be a surprise if more than one of them qualify for the groups, if indeed any at all.

Without those points (10.25) Scotland's average over the past 4 years is around 2.5 so in effect the loss will equate to around 7.75.
As things stand, that will drop Scotland to 28th, below Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia and the likes of Romania, all countries who are having more success on the European stage than Scotland have for years. (N.B it will leave them 5 places above Ireland)

That will leave Scotland with 1 CL Place (The same route as Celtic have at the moment) and 3 Europa League places.

Celtic will have to hold Scottish football in that position single handedly, unless the other clubs seriously buck up their act.

As Dempsey says, the only thing that can happen if things drop further is an extra qualifying round - but i think he's got the blinkers on slightly if he thinks that won't affect the players that Celtic can attract, or the sponsorship money that the club brought in.

Basically, unless Celtic can make themselves into a Rosenberg style team and become a mainstay in the group stages and are supported by a Motherwell or a Hearts in the Europa league - Scottish Football is in big trouble when it comes to Europe, and will be seen on a par with ireland & finland before long.

(Also, this was happening prior to Rangers troubles - now it's simply a matter that is in Celtic's hands imo)

18th not 13th
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient

Eirebear

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

18th not 13th
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient

Typo.

Dempsey

kippy wrote: »

Isn't the co-efficient worked out by the countries clubs performances in Europe? The higher the co-efficient, the more chance another club from that country can try gain european qualification and indeed the less rounds they have to go through?
Having only one team "barely" compete in Europe (celtic) and the next best team (who knows - but they wont be getting too far in europe) have a direct knock on effect to the co-efficient and over time this will result in either less teams playing top european football and them finding an ever more difficult route to get there?
Isn't that a serious threat?

Thats the theory but if you check up how the coefficients actually work, what is most likely is that the SPL drops to 1 club in the 2nd round of the UCL qualifiers and 3 clubs in the EL qualifiers. To get worse than that, Scottish Football would need to contract to the size of NI football. That isnt likely to happen at all.

EDIT

Kyle Lafferty refuses to join Sevco

Zebra3

Beefy78 wrote: »

Here's Chester's Club site claiming history dating back to 1885:
http://www.chester-city.co.uk/

And their honours list, proudly claiming their three Cheshire Premier Cup and Cambridgeshire Professional Cup success:
http://www.chester-city.co.uk/honours.asp

AFC Telford claiming a club history and honours back to 1872:
http://www.afctelfordunited.co.uk/a/club-history-24498.html

As of 2007, Wimbledon FC's club history were officially transferred from MK Dons to AFC Wimbledon

http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/honours.php?Psection_id=4&Psub_section_id=7&squad=

Wimbledon's honours were transferred with official FA authority.

The rest are just what you said they are. "Claims". Like the current Limerick FC (founded in 2007 as Limerick 37) claiming previous Limerick clubs honours.

None have been recognised like Wimbledon.

dsmythy

Only time will tell about the loss of Rangers. Speculating is pointless with regards Scottish football's future standing in Europe. Ther first clear signs to look for if you're looking for a negative conclusion will be this time next year. How far will Celtic have progressed in Europe and how will their players react after a year dominating the league should Celtic fail to enter a group stage of some kind.

UglyBolloxFace

kryogen wrote: »

So what division will they be playing in then? Will they be forced to go to division 3 or will it be the relatively easy task of playing division 1 for a year before going back to the SPL?

Here's another thing which confuses me. What right does this new club, Sevco Ltd, have to attempt to join Division 3?

If I started a club in Scotland out of nowhere I certainly wouldn't be allowed to join Div 3, nor would I attempt to.

The Rangers FC Ltd should do what any newly-founded club would do - start from the very bottom like everyone else. If that's Scottish Sunday League football (or lower) then so be it.

Dempsey

dsmythy wrote: »

Only time will tell about the loss of Rangers. Speculating is pointless with regards Scottish football's future standing in Europe. Ther first clear signs to look for if you're looking for a negative conclusion will be this time next year. How far will Celtic have progressed in Europe and how will their players react after a year dominating the league should Celtic fail to enter a group stage of some kind.

Even then it could be too early to judge as the SFA, SPL & SFL are finally getting around to major changes that were on the cards for almost 20 years :eek:

Zebra3

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Here's another thing which confuses me. What right does this new club, Sevco Ltd, have to attempt to join Division 3?

If I started a club in Scotland out of nowhere I certainly wouldn't be allowed to join Div 3, nor would I attempt to.

The Rangers FC Ltd should do what any newly-founded club would do - start from the very bottom like everyone else. If that's Scottish Sunday League football (or lower) then so be it.

I don't think there's any promotion into the SFL, is there? If that's the case, the new club has the right to apply for SFL membership as much as anyone else (so long they have everything in place), and if accepted should start in the lowest tier of the SFL.

Dempsey

Zebra3 wrote: »

I don't think there's any promotion into the SFL, is there? If that's the case, the new club has the right to apply for SFL membership as much as anyone else (so long they have everything in place), and if accepted should start in the lowest tier of the SFL.

Ya, there is no pyramid structure in Scottish Football which is one of the things they finally want to change

Coillte_Bhoy

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Here's another thing which confuses me. What right does this new club, Sevco Ltd, have to attempt to join Division 3?

If I started a club in Scotland out of nowhere I certainly wouldn't be allowed to join Div 3, nor would I attempt to.

The Rangers FC Ltd should do what any newly-founded club would do - start from the very bottom like everyone else. If that's Scottish Sunday League football (or lower) then so be it.

There is no pyramod structure in scottish fotball as there is in England so nothing to stop them applying.

UglyBolloxFace

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Ha, Aberdeen, the club whose fans live for 1 game, and 1 game only.

I would not count them among the clubs that could now fight for second place, considering their performances over the last seasons.

Look a little closer to home eh, before you mouth off about other clubs.

Remember this - years and years of cheating, and now the club has got its just desserts.

Eirebear

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Look a little closer to home eh, before you mouth off about other clubs.

Remember this - years and years of cheating, and now the club has got its just desserts.

Ahhh there we go, the "You're club has done wrong, therefore you have no opinion as a fan" bull****.

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

Ahhh there we go, the "You're club has done wrong, therefore you have no opinion as a fan" bull****.

At least Aberdeen live within their means for that "1 game"

Fairly laughable to be criticising a club for underachieving when the club you support is being liquidated and the one you want to support isnt even a football club yet. :rolleyes:

the realpigiron

Just wondering are The New Rangers or Club 12 or whatever they're called considering applying to join Div 2 or the Conference in England at all? If they were to start in the Conference for example and got promoted every season it would only take them only 2 years longer to get to the EPL as to get to the SPL.

Maybe they'd have to start at the very bottom like AFC Wimbledon, I think there are 7 tiers between the very bottom and Div 2 league football in England. AFC Wimbledon did it in 13 years I think.