poor quality tap water in D15 causing extremely dry skin?

Juicyfruit

Have to say I've noticed this too.. I moved to Clonsilla 6 months ago having lived in Dublin 12 for the past 25 years (all my life) and I have to say, I have noticed a big difference in the water in comparison - It doesn't seem to be as clean or something, we've been buying bottled water as we don't really want to drink it. Also have gone through 2 kettles as the build up on the inside gets so bad.
After a shower I notice that there is a sort of a film on my skin if that makes sense, I have really itchy flaky scalp which I have never had before in my life. Also noticing my face has become quite patchy and dry and my skin in general seems to be drying out. Boyfriend has big dry patches on his arms aswell.
Very annoying.

vibe666

mustang68 wrote: »

What you might be doing is trying to simplify your very complex dermatological issue with saying it is Water,

if it was just myself i might be inclined to think so, but the same thing has happened to my wife since moving here, despite her never having any skin related issues in her life before, even when i had problems since starting work in this area.

then, within a few weeks of moving to clonsilla, she's started having the same problems with dry flaky and occasionally bleeding cracked skin on her handsall the time.

i went to my GP the other day and he says its quite common and prescribed me eumovate for it and said it should clear up, but it's not making any real difference so far. also the pharmacist who gave me the cream that the GP prescribed had very similar skin problems too.

they both put it down to hard water but i came from navan which is also a very hard water area and never had any problems when i was livin there unless i was working in or around D15.

Pat Dunne

Hi Folks has anyone contacted Fingal County Council on this matter? If requested they will take water samples and issue a report.

mustang68

vibe666 wrote: »

if it was just myself i might be inclined to think so, but the same thing has happened to my wife since moving here, despite her never having any skin related issues in her life before, even when i had problems since starting work in this area

........

they both put it down to hard water but i came from navan which is also a very hard water area and never had any problems when i was livin there unless i was working in or around D15.

well go and have the water tested.

vibe666

mustang68 wrote: »

well go and have the water tested.

you mean go and complain to someone who could actually do something about it instead of moaning about it to people on the internet who don't care and couldn't do anything even if they did? that doesn't sound very irish. :pac:

what would we have to complain about if people went around fixing all our problems willy nilly?

Conor30

The water in Dublin 15 is heavily chlorinated, comparatively speaking, and it is also water that's rather hard. These two things can lead to dry skin.

opinion guy

Conor30 wrote: »

The water in Dublin 15 is heavily chlorinated, comparatively speaking, and it is also water that's rather hard. These two things can lead to dry skin.

Why is it heavily chlorinated ? And how do you know this ?

travist

I can taste the chlorine from the water. I rang up Fingal council and they said yeah, sometimes the levels are high. They offered no solution.
It is disgusting to taste. I imagine it will taste worse when I'm paying for it.

JupiterKid

I agree that the water in Dublin 15 has too much chlorine in it. It is not really fit for drinking IMO. The mineral water companies must be delighted.

Gaspode

Dont you mean flourine?

opinion guy

Gaspode wrote: »

Dont you mean flourine?

Chlorine is also put into water - to kill micro-beasties. And aluminium for that matter - to make it sparkle.

Bunnyhopper

Juicyfruit wrote: »

have gone through 2 kettles as the build up on the inside gets so bad.

As a D15 resident of long standing I'll suggest this.

Put about 150ml of white wine vinegar in the kettle, give it a good swirl around and then top it up to the fill line with water. Leave it overnight on the draining board. In the morning, dump the contents and rinse it out. Refill with fresh water, boil it up and discard that first boil. After that it should be fine to use and most of the limescale should be gone.

You shouldn't have to do it more that once every few months. Any vinegar works but white wine vinegar tends to leave your kitchen smelling less like a chipper.

Gaspode

opinion guy wrote: »

Chlorine is also put into water - to kill micro-beasties. And aluminium for that matter - to make it sparkle.

Really? Have you a source for that info?

opinion guy

Gaspode wrote: »

Really? Have you a source for that info?

Eh....doesn't everyone know this ? I remember learning it in school. Go google it yourself.

Edit: Hmm that seems unnecessarily bitchy. Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_sulfate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_water

Conor30

opinion guy wrote: »

Why is it heavily chlorinated ? And how do you know this ?

It's just my impression!

vibe666

well, it's been a while but i promised to report back when i got it sorted and it sort of is now, albeit with no help from fingal coco.

apologies in advance for the long post, but there's a lot to say.

i contacted FCC and they sent someone out to test our tap water within a couple of days and said that they took their job seriously and that there are 2 people going around constantly testing the water on a daily basis and it was important to make sure of the quality of the water, etc. etc.

so a nice man came round and spent about 20 mins doing some tests and said he'd send off samples to the lab for further analysis and to call back in a couple of weeks for the results.

so, a couple of weeks later i called back and the results were that my water supply is 'normal' for the area and that it was within the EU regulations for drinking water, although they weren't going in to any more detail than that other than to say that it's *probably* down to it being such a hard water area and that they have had quite a lot of people reporting similar problems as myself, but that was it. once the water meets the EU regulations they aren't interested any more.

so yay for me, my water supply is officially of sufficient quality that it meets the same stringent standards set out for countries such as Poland, Estonia, Romania, Greece etc. :rolleyes:

Yes, i'm also aware that it meets the same standards required for Germany, the UK etc. but we're kind of looking at the low end of the bar, rather than the high end.

SO i decided to fix the problem myself and since I can't run a hose from a decent water supply to my house, i started looking into improving the quality of the water I have.

After a bit of investigation via some threads here about aquariums and filtering your own water for aquarium use (as untreated tap water can be toxic to fish), I decided to invest in a reverse osmosis water filter system and ended up getting a really good deal on a 7 stage RO filter kit off ebay as the auction was finishing on that really sunny sunday afternoon just before the weather turned and i reckon everyone else was out enjoying themselves whilst i was at home sick with a bug, but at least i saved myself about 100 quid, so it wasn't all bad news.

The system I bought was apparently able for up to 190L per day, so I thought I might be able to use it for the supply for the whole house, but it turns out that the figures quoted weren't entirely realistic, so I've had to settle for a goose neck tap at the sink and a supply feeding the water/ice system in my fridge.

it does mean however that whenever myself or my wife are washing our hands we can use the goose neck tap instead of the regular tap and there is already a significant improvement in my wife's hands compared to how they were and i've noticed my own hands aren't nearly as bad as they have been previously, although they're not improved as much as my wife's have as i still have to wash my hands at work which is only down the road and has the same supply.

now that i know it works, i'm giving serious consideration to investing in a higher capacity system so that i can use it to supply the whole house as i'm starting to get quite a bit of dry skin on my face now as well as my hands and we've noticed some dry blotches of skin on the baby in the last couple of weeks too.

if anyone is interested, this is the system I bougt, although I've since added a hydraulic permeate pump to increase the output and efficiency of the RO membrane.



http://www.aquasafe.de/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=1059

it basically filters out pretty much anything that isn't pure water from the incoming supply and leaves you with water that has a fresh and pure taste and smell which, having tasted it, i'd happily put up against any fancy bottled water for flavour.

Other than the output only being about half of what it's advertised at (which is probably a lot to do with my overall lack of water pressure), i honestly couldn't be happier as not only am I now totally vindicated in my assertion that it was the water supply causing the problems (even if fingal coco don't care once it meets EU standards), but I know that the solution is relatively cheap to implement and has given us a near perfect water supply.

aside from the taste and smell of the water compared to before we got the filter system, you can actually SEE the difference when making up bottles for the baby. before, the regular filtered tap water (filtered before it got to the fridge with a normal inline water filter) we were boiling in the kettle was leaving residue in the 2L plastic jug that we were having to scrub out every day which is no longer there. The jug hasn't been scrubbed out for over a week now even though it gets used every day for freshly boiled water and there still isn't even a hint of any kind of residue on it and not only that, but you can actually see that the water is clearer when you look in the jug, compared to how it used to be.

i'm planning on descaling the kettle at the weekend and i imagine that'll probably be the last time i ever have to do it.

opinion guy

vibe666 - can you get your tapwater testing prviately somewhere ?

vibe666

possibly, but i doubt there would be anything to be done about it at the supply as long as it meets EU standards, so it would be a pretty pointless exercise other than for informational purposes and as i'm now 100% certain that the water was the problem and that i can (and have) fixed it myself, i don't really have any motivation to spend money on more testing when i could be spending it on getting the entire water supply in the house changed to go via the RO system.

according to the people I got it off, I can simply replace the RO membrane for the next model up which is good for 100gpd which would double the current output but still using the same components n the rest of the system, although they did say that it wasn't quite as good, so I was half thinking of seeing if it would be possible to just run a 2nd RO membrane in parallel alongside the first one and just getting a bigger reservoir to hold the extra output.

Gaspode

Fair play to you, hope it works out for you. I was skeptical that water could have that big an effect, but I am glad to be proved wrong when it's a happy ending story!

opinion guy

Yeah glad you found a solution vibe!

vibe666

me too!

just as a side note, this reverse osmosis lark is pretty special.

i have a testing kit for my aquariums that checks for stuff like water hardness, pH, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites etc. and one of the tests is general hardness of the water and it's pretty much at opposite ends of the scale before and after the RO filtration, so it's possible that the hardness is the cause of our skin problems, but i wouldn't be at all surprised if there's some other component at work that is being filtered out.

reading the bumph on the system i have, it says that the RO membrane is 200 times finer than the smallest bacteria or virus, so it should be germ free as well as clean as a whistle. i honestly can't recommend it enough if you are having problems with your water supply, it's easy enough to fit yourself if you have a little DIY experience, but won't take a plumber much more than 30-40 minutes to fit if you're worried about causing damage and the results are pretty much the cleanest water you'll ever taste imho.

Gaspode

As a matter of interest, what's the lifetime of the RO membrane likely to be, and how much to replace them?

JupiterKid

Glad to hear it worked out for you Vibe666. I have a Brita water filter jug for my drinking water and it makes a big difference.

I may well look into getting that system myself that you've installed.

vibe666

Gaspode wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what's the lifetime of the RO membrane likely to be, and how much to replace them?

the RO membrane should last up to 2-3 years (with the hydraulic pump fitted to maximise efficiency), depending on the quality of the water going in and level of usage and is about 30-40 quid to replace depending on what capacity membrane you use.

the 3 pre-filters need changing every 6months and the 2 post filters every 12 months and you can get a 12 month set for around 40-50 quid depending on how fancy you'd like your water.

on the surface of it, it might sound pricy but compared to our quality of life it's less than we'd be spending on moisturisers and britta filters (which still don't even filter 10% as well as RO) and its always better in my mind to prevent a problem than cure it, esp. as the cures in this case weren't terribly effective and so far it's better than using bottled water and it's on tap so it's hard to argue really.

i'm not sure how i'll feel if/when they eventually bring in the water meters as it does generate quite a bit of waste water so my usage will be higher than normal, but until FCC can supply decent quality water i don't see that i have much choice.

zef

Interested to read about your RO setup. Was looking into it myself due to the fluoride in the water in Ireland - myth- 'fluoride is good for your teeth' - actually fluoride can cause fluoridosis, we are about the only country in europe who adds fluoride to the water, it's recognised as harmful in other countries.
http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/ for more info.
It also messes with your pineal gland -aka- 'third eye', 'chakra' , seat of conciousness , and causes illnesses like ME, arthritis and other soft tissue & bone problems.
Got a take-away price of 250e or fitted 350e from a company in santry this week, for similar RO filter.
Not only for fluoride, but also all the other crap (literally), e.g. e-coli.

vibe666

i picked up the 7 stage AS5000 system from the aquasafe.de ebay store for 125 euro instead of 259 on their website by getting an auction that ended during slack selling hours on a sunday, although i added another 59 to that for the permeate pump to boost the output as with the d15 water pressure being what it is, it wasn't producing very much without it.

if you know one end of a spanner from the other, you should be able to fit it yourself in about an hour or a plumber could do it in 30-40 mins if you know one.

the whole lot will fit under your sink and the only thing i'd do differently is maybe get a bigger reservoir, I'd go for 16L if it will fit under your sink, there's plenty of free space under my sink with the 8L one and it can be laid on it's side as well as standing up without affecting performance according to the website.

if you got the 16L reservoir and it didn't fit or you changed your mind, i'll swap it with mine and pay you the difference.

i'd also be happy to help out with the install one weekend if you decide to do it yourself and want an extra pair of hands.

EDIT: if you want an even greater endorsement, i was planning on descaling our calc'd up kettle this weekend to see if it would still get calc on it with the RO water and to my amazement (seriously, i'm stunned) i've just looked inside the kettle to see how bad it was as it was in a very poorly state te ast time i checked and it is absolutely GLEAMING quite literally like a new kettle inside, so not only does it not calc up your kettles etc. but it will actually clean them back to 'as new' condition!

actually, on closer inspection there is still some calc on the sides, but the bottom is sparkling clean and it's probably 75-80% gone from the kettle overall in the last week or so.

zef

You got a great price on that RO system!
Crazy about your kettle I've been meaning to descale mine too.
That is one hell of an endorsement allright!
It's my b'day soon, I think i will get one then, best gift for self & family. I'll check out the tanks etc and pm if i need a hand or advice.
Thanks a million.

vibe666

my best advice would be to keep an eye on the ebay store for aquasafe.de http://stores.ebay.ie/Aquasafe-de?_trksid=p4340.l2563 and see if you can pick up a bargain.

if you can get one with the permeate pump then all the better, otherwise just order it separately. they also do one with a booster pump, but you'd need to power that from the mains with a transformer, whereas the permeate pump is 100% hydraulic and is powered purely by your own water pressure.

the permeate pump is obviously less powerful than the booster pump, but it should be plenty for most peoples drinking water needs, even with the poor pressure in d15.

Scubadevils

vibe666, the experiences you've described here mirror what I've had over the last 3 or 4 years! - many creams, doctor visits, diet changes (including no alcohol, no coffee, no tea etc!). I posted the following thread yesterday in the North County Dublin forum & zef kindly pointed out your thread!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78398332#post78398332

Until recently I had thought it might be stress (having pretty much ruled out countless other things over the years) due to the problem going away when I'm on holidays but as per my post in the above thread I travel to London a lot and the problem reduces or almost goes away completely if I'm there for a few days - I have to work in London and if anything the stress levels go up when there!

I had just sent off some emails yesterday also to companies I found online in relation to RO and reading your experience (I've just read the entire thread this morning) I'm convinced now that I need to invest in a system like this. In my email to a company called Celtic Water Systems I've asked what cost is involved for a system to filter all water into the house, be interesting to see what they come back with.

Anyway, great to hear a story exactly the same as mine with what appears to be a good conclusion - I hope now I can solve mine too, bloody torture dealing with dry/cracked hands for so long!

vibe666

glad you finally tracked it down too, feel free to send me a PM if you need any more info.

personally, the more i think about it i think I'd need a 200 gallon per day system to run a family home as you'll only get about half of that with the pressure we have in d15 unless you get a heavy duty booster pump, but that would be pretty noisy, so i'd go for a higher capacity RO system with the permeate pump (which is almost silent aside from a quiet clicking noise every 10 seconds) and not need to have the booster pump at all.

also, if you were going to do the whole house you'd want a bigger reservoir than the 8L one the system i bought came with as in reality due to the internal pressure in the reservoir you only get about 4-5L of water in it before the system can't push any more into it and shuts off and it takes a while to fill back up to capacity again.

the more expensive option would be a free flow RO system which would have a higher capacity than the water pressure so you don't need a reservoir at all and it'll just be the same pressure coming out as it is going in. the bad news of course is that you're probably talking in the low 4 figures for a free flow system and the reality of it is that between your cold and hot water tanks, you don't really need it as long as you can produce more RO water per day than you normally use and have a decent sized reservoir to store enough in that you're not going to run out if you need a lot of water in a hurry.