PC Build

Pangea

Thanks.
I see that, when I try to order the Samsung F3 it says a week or more till its in stock.
So Il either go for the 500gb Samsung F3 or the Dearer 1TB WD.
Decisions Decisions.

Pangea

Ordered it today grand total of 623.35
Went for the 500GB Samsung F3 in the end. I like to keep my PC hardrive free most of the time anyway so 500GB should be plenty, thats what my externals 1TBs are for.

Will buy the monitor in the next day or two from komplett. Many thanks Monotype.

Pangea

Instead of starting a new thread, wanted to ask a general question about SSD cards.

I was put of them by their lack of capacity, but just wondering is there much to getting it to work, e.g. changing bios settings etc.?
Do just connect them up like a normal hardrive?
Since SSDs are starting to become popular recently, are there many teething problems?

If you wanted to have a normal hardrive for storage , can programs like skype and itunes be installed on that non boot drive to save space on the SSD or is that a daft question?

Probably too late to get one anyway as I already ordered the normal hd on hardwareversand but just curious to how it works.

jaykhunter

It connects via SATA like regular drives but they're super-fast, only good for starting programs v quickly, not for gaming. So getting a 64GB drive as a primary drive works best. Installed windows in like 5 minutes it was crazy! Boot up is about 22 seconds, it's cool to see programs open when u click. But sure 4 seconds longer and 500 gb more depends on urself if it's worth it

Pangea

jaykhunter wrote: »

It connects via SATA like regular drives but they're super-fast, only good for starting programs v quickly, not for gaming. So getting a 64GB drive as a primary drive works best. Installed windows in like 5 minutes it was crazy! Boot up is about 22 seconds, it's cool to see programs open when u click. But sure 4 seconds longer and 500 gb more depends on urself if it's worth it

Sounds nice, there is a special email address for changes to an order on the hardwareversand.de website, I'm contemplating emailing them asking is it possible to switch the SSD for the HD. The SSD would be 12 euro dearer.
I have an old 200 GB HD that would be fine as secondary drive instead of the 500GB one for the time being.

I notice some of the ssds come with 'Data Transfer Kit'
What are those for?

Monotype

Yes they're very quick. I was a bit unsure about spending that much money when I bought one about a year ago, but you the amount of time you save adds up with browsers opening in a second and boot time maybe 30, no waiting for desktop or anything like that.

Given that your budget was already pushed and it seemed more like a PC that would consistently be on (rather than switched of and booted etc.), I didn't recommend it. When your computer is on, windows 7 is quite efficient in caching programs you might need in memory, so it takes some of the slowness out of hard drives.

As jay says, its pretty much just like a regular hard drive. You get the most out of it if you use it as your windows drive and yes, you could always install any bulky programs to another hard drive.

As for teething problems, yes there were - some of the hard drives built on internals made by Sandforce proved to be disastrous in terms of reliability. It's been fixed now but it was still a problem for a long time. Micron's drive has been one of the most consistently reliable drives and you can find it in their consumer brand, Crucial, and also Intel and Corsair's top end drives.

If you decide that you would like to spend the additional cash, you can still buy it fairly "cheap" for €89.37 from dabs.
http://www.dabs.ie/products/crucial-64gb-m4-sata-6gb-s-2-5--solid-state-drive-7GL0.html

Dabs have free delivery with something like €75 or 79 + VAT so it's something around the €95 region - if you were to buy another small item, you may be able to avail of this.

Pangea

So say if I did install all the programs on the second hardrive, would that be kinda taking away from the whole point of having a SSD. i.e. would the programs that I would launch from the second hardrive be loading up in normal hardrive times aka non SSD times or would the SSD help speed up those too?

Programs would hardly take up 50% of 64GB anyway so maybe my Question is a bit pointless.

I see this on Amazon, not sure if its the exact same one as the Dabs one, but with euro conversion it would work out at 87 euro with free shipping.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004W2JKWG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_g147_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0KAMKVNPGND0NHTTR8DY&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294

jaykhunter

That's the same one on dabs and amazon and in my new PC! Ya it'd be kinda useless having an SSD but some programs on a different drive. I mean windows and the other progs would still b fast but if possible just keep nothing but windows and all ur programs on it

Best of both worlds is having a primary SSD and secondary large drive for storage. If i had to choose and my computer was gonna be on all day then I'd rather a large HDD - like load your programs once (your pc will still b fast) and leave em on Esp if money's tight I'd say u don't need one but u might just want one! So no, u don't need one but yes they're awesome so yes go get one if u can! Lol

Ya u could shoot HWVS an email asking for a different HDD and see if they haven't built yours yet. Get some breakkie and think over if u actually want it

I haven't done it but the data transfer kit is for moving HDD data from ur old on to ur new one as opposed to reinstalling files, windows and programs onto it. Mono?

Monotype

I see this on Amazon, not sure if its the exact same one as the Dabs one, but with euro conversion it would work out at 87 euro with free shipping.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004W2JKWG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_g147_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0KAMKVNPGND0NHTTR8DY&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294

That's it, yeah.

Pangea wrote: »

So say if I did install all the programs on the second hardrive, would that be kinda taking away from the whole point of having a SSD. i.e. would the programs that I would launch from the second hardrive be loading up in normal hardrive times aka non SSD times or would the SSD help speed up those too?

Programs would hardly take up 50% of 64GB anyway so maybe my Question is a bit pointless.

Most of your regular programs + windows should be able to fit on 64gb. That's assuming you're not the type of person who installs new programs every week.
Things installed to the hard drive will be slower than the SSD. One way to get the SSD to "help" the hard drive to speed things up is using Intel's SRT which is a feature of the Z68 chipset. What this does is that it automatically stores files on the SSD that you use most often for quick access. It does sound like a good idea, but it only works if you're accessing the same files - the first few times will read from the hard drive. I think it's best used if you have a smaller SSD that you wanted to reuse but with a new one like the M4, you'd get more benefit from just using it as your Operating System drive.

What jaykhunter says is true though, if you system is on all day, you won't get the benefit of fast booting and the programs that you want to use could be left open or Windows is also likely to move them to RAM to prepare for opening.

I haven't done it but the data transfer kit is for moving HDD data from ur old on to ur new one as opposed to reinstalling files, windows and programs onto it. Mono?

With an SSD, you're best off with a clean install. Windows 7 changes how it installs itself when it detects an SSD- e.g., it disables automatic de-fragmenting for that drive which would be of no benefit and would actually cause more wear on the drive.

Serephucus

There's also the OCZ Petrol drives to consider. The 128GB version is €128 right now on Dabs, and the 64GB version is €77 (I think).

I'm actually really considering the 128GB myself...

Monotype

I'm surprised there's still no extensive reviews about that yet.
I found this one though...

http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnl.hardware.info%2Freviews%2F2553%2F8%2Fssd-voor-weinig-ocz-petrol-128gb-review-conclusie

A bit dire in some areas with previous generation doing better. Could be good for a cheaper laptop upgrade or games storage. Doesn't look like you'd be running away with a bargain but it's a fair price.

Pangea

Thanks for that.
Well when I say it is on all day, I wouldnt have it on 24/7,I would probably turn it off some nights if not most. With my recent computer I turned it off at night due to noise.

Generally the responsiveness of the ssd is very appealing for quick tasks.
I sent them an email so will see how it goes.

On the subject of keyboards.
My old one has one of those old connectors think its called a PS/2 connector, I wonder will this work with the new PC or should I get a new one ASAP?
This looks quite nice and cheap.
http://www.komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_04RAND/17_MOUSEKB/07_KEYBOAR/productdetails/20063185/Logitech_K120_Keyboard_Wired/920_002479/default.aspx

Monotype

That motherboard has a PS/2 connector for the keyboard. You can get adapters too.

The one on komplett has an American layout so avoid it - not a load of differences but the symbols above the numbers are different and I can't find the backslash on my US netbook!

Serephucus

Monotype wrote: »

I can't find the backslash on my US netbook!

Above the enter key.

Monotype

Doesn't mean it works when I set it to an Irish keyboard! I know I could remap them or use alt codes if I was desperate but it's not for mainstream use so it doesn't matter greatly. Still additional hassle for desktop user though.

Pangea

Haven't seen many keyboards over the years with a euro symbol.

I got an email from hardwareversand, they got my payment and have already sent out the goods, that was fast!
So for the time being I wont be getting ssd, I'l keep it on the bookmark tab though just in-case I change my mind .

Monotype

Just hold alt-gr and 4. If it's set to an Irish keyboard, it should work regardless of whether it's there or not.

If you do change your mind in the next few days, you can always order the one from amazon. It's about the same price as HWV. It's not not very difficult to install either. If I recall correctly, the R3 has a tray for an SSD. All you need then is a power connection from your PSU and an SATA cable to the motherboard (which you'll find in one of the boxes).

Pangea

Monotype wrote: »

Just hold alt-gr and 4. If it's set to an Irish keyboard, it should work regardless of whether it's there or not.

If you do change your mind in the next few days, you can always order the one from amazon. It's about the same price as HWV. It's not not very difficult to install either. If I recall correctly, the R3 has a tray for an SSD. All you need then is a power connection from your PSU and an SATA cable to the motherboard (which you'll find in one of the boxes).

Wow never knew that, just got the € symbol now!

P.S If I was to get an extra hardrive or in this case a ssd , would my build and psu be able to handle it ok with its current specs?

Monotype

Ah yeah, you could put in a load of hard drives and still be okay. There's plenty of room for a midrange graphics card too or any other upgrades that take your fancy.

Pangea

You know when you first connect a SSD, do you have to change the BIOS options at all?
I heard words like IDE and ACHI mentioned in some of the amazon reviews.
Also some mentioned that you have to update the firmware of an SSD and that the process can be tricky.

Monotype

To get the best speed, you should enable AHCI before you install windows.
You can enable it afterwards but you need to do a change in the registry first so that windows knows that you are going to use AHCI, otherwise it wouldn't boot.
It's not essential but you do get better performance and it just takes a minute of looking through the BIOS/UEFI setup for the right setting.

I updated the firmware on an M4 recently and it wasn't too bad. Easier than their previous drive, the C300. The reviewers might be mentioning it because there was a firmware update a while ago that gave a big boost to the performance of the drive. You probably don't need to worry about that as any drives for sale now is likely to have that firmware.
I think the steps are something like that you need to put the firmware on a USB drive or disc (it might be a disc image file in which case you can put it on with the Universal USB installer), then change the drive mode from AHCI to IDE (if you've changed it previously) and just follow the instructions. The main thing to worry about is that you get the firmware for the right drive and that you don't have a power cut during the update. It's not too hard but if you find it daunting, I wouldn't worry about it as it's likely that you'd get fairly new stock.

Pangea

I suspect the hard drive I ordered will be connected already on the motherboard once I receive the build.
If I do get the SSD, Is there an order system on motherboards as to where you position your boot drive. I read up that on some motherboards main boot drive is in Sata 1 (if there is such a label).
So If this was the case I would probably have to disconnect the F3 HD from that slot and connect the SSD.

One more query, at the moment I have an old 200GB HD that I used on my last PC, it has windows 7 on it already and some files that I need to take off it. My last PC is not working so I cant even access that. If that hard drive is still in working order then I was planning to connect it up to the new PC as a boot drive as a once off just to get some of my files off it. I suppose it would be better if I did this before I stick in the SSD. My question is, if I was to do this after setting up the whole SSD, would I have to change the Sata mode to IDE from AHCI.

I seen on my laptop the BIOS option to change IDE to AHCI. Its simple. Is that all that is involved in changing it to AHCI for the SSD?

I was thinking of buying one of those anti static wrist straps to avoid anything going wrong.

Monotype

It doesn't really matter which SATA port that you connect to, you can rearrange the order of booting to whatever you like. You should however, check that you connect to one of the 6Gbps ports for the SSD. You can check in the manual which are 6Gbps and which are 3Gbps. It doesn't matter which ones you connect the hard drives to as it won't reach those speeds.
It is a good idea to disconnect all the other drives except the SSD when installing windows - no need to go disconnecting the power or taking out the cables, just unplug them from the motherboard or disable them in the BIOS. I would do this as windows occasionally decides to put files on other drives and you usually want to keep it all on the one drive.

For the other hard drive - check to see if it's an IDE drive or SATA. There's no IDE connectors on newer motherboards and you'd need an adapter. If it's an SATA drive, you can just go ahead and connect it.
There's a very good chance that it wouldn't work as a boot drive as it wouldn't have the right drivers or anything like that. Even repairing the install has slim chances of getting it to work. It's likely that you'd have to change back to IDE mode for it to boot but if you were just connecting it in as another hard drive, you could probably leave it as AHCI and you would be able to retrieve your files. If it didn't detect the drive, you could try IDE mode.

That's all you have to do for changing to AHCI, but remember to do it before you install windows.

You could buy one of the wrist straps if you wanted to be extra careful. I don't think it would be very necessary for a small addition like this though. Just touching the metal of the case and avoiding touching any circuitry or contacts should be sufficient.

jaykhunter

Monotype wrote: »

You could buy one of the wrist straps if you wanted to be extra careful. I don't think it would be very necessary for a small addition like this though. Just touching the metal of the case and avoiding touching any circuitry or contacts should be sufficient.

When i was looking up tutorials for the PC i read that it's far more likely that the components would be damaged mishandling/dropping them. As long as you're not rubbing your feet on carpet! Yep touch the PSU every couple of minutes is more than enough

Pangea

Monotype wrote: »

It doesn't really matter which SATA port that you connect to, you can rearrange the order of booting to whatever you like. You should however, check that you connect to one of the 6Gbps ports for the SSD. You can check in the manual which are 6Gbps and which are 3Gbps. It doesn't matter which ones you connect the hard drives to as it won't reach those speeds.
It is a good idea to disconnect all the other drives except the SSD when installing windows - no need to go disconnecting the power or taking out the cables, just unplug them from the motherboard or disable them in the BIOS. I would do this as windows occasionally decides to put files on other drives and you usually want to keep it all on the one drive.

For the other hard drive - check to see if it's an IDE drive or SATA. There's no IDE connectors on newer motherboards and you'd need an adapter. If it's an SATA drive, you can just go ahead and connect it.
There's a very good chance that it wouldn't work as a boot drive as it wouldn't have the right drivers or anything like that. Even repairing the install has slim chances of getting it to work. It's likely that you'd have to change back to IDE mode for it to boot but if you were just connecting it in as another hard drive, you could probably leave it as AHCI and you would be able to retrieve your files. If it didn't detect the drive, you could try IDE mode.

That's all you have to do for changing to AHCI, but remember to do it before you install windows.

You could buy one of the wrist straps if you wanted to be extra careful. I don't think it would be very necessary for a small addition like this though. Just touching the metal of the case and avoiding touching any circuitry or contacts should be sufficient.

The old hardrive is connected via Sata Connector.

Just to clarify what you were saying, if I do connect the old HD up as a boot drive before I use a SSD as a boot drive, would it boot up ok?

If I just used the old HD as a slave drive (instead of using it as a boot drive as a once off) and use the SSD as bootable drive, would I be able to access the files on the old HD that way?

Monotype

It probably wouldn't boot up as before. Your old copy of windows is set up for different hardware. Windows can handle a few changes but not usually swapping around motherboards and chipsets. You could try repairing your install (F8 before windows boots or repair with the windows install disc), but even that doesn't have high chances of allowing you to boot.

What you can do, is to install windows on the SSD or HDD as normal. Then connect in your old hard drive. Your old hard drive, assuming it is working, will show up as another drive letter in Computer, like E-Drive. You should be able to retrieve any files this way. Documents would be under E:\Users\Yourusername and you could find desktop files in there. It would be harder to retrieve registry settings or things like that if you need them. You'd have to wander among the old windows files, but all of your files should be there.

Pangea

Great knowledge there thanks.

I was looking at your Windows 7 thread.
I notice there is a disc for Windows 7 x64 and also one for Windows 7 SP1 x64.

Should I just download the SP1 version?

Monotype

You might as well get SP1.
I just put the non-SP1 there in case anyone didn't like any software updates in the service pack and you can't downgrade to take away the service pack.

The benefits of the service pack outweighs the disadvantages; the updates you need to get far exceed the useless ones, and it takes a lot of time to install the service pack.

Just make sure you grab the right version - i.e., home premium, professional, ultimate etc. If it doesn't activate and you've used up your 3 keys, you should still be able to ring up Microsoft and tell them that your last computer is no longer working and you want to use that license.

Pangea

Got the Dell monitor today, very nice indeed.
Although its actually a cm or 2 shorter than my last standard 19 inch.
Hopefully the Widescreen will make me feel better about that.

Pangea

Forgot to say got the 64GB Crucial SSD aswell today :pac:.
Amazon are fast!

Just reading through the directions and it says 2.5" inch drive and instructs how to insert it into a notebook.
I hope I got the right one now.