The State of O'Connell St

Neeson

Eru wrote: »

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

public urination

Not an arrestable offence. Gardai would be breaching your human rights if they arrested you during the day for this.

Must be mistaken

Gumbo

Neeson wrote: »

Must be mistaken

Either that or Pistaken...........:D








I'll get me coat...

FreudianSlippers

Eru wrote: »

No, there isnt, Gardai act within legal powers, we dont make them up. The junkies are committing little actual crime and when they commit an offence that carries a power of arrest, its used.

Ah yeah... thanks for that info; I never knew. Fun fact, I have more than a few letters after my name that mean I know a little bit about the law. :rolleyes: I can tell by the following that for some reason or another you are wilfully misrepresenting the situation.

You have no evidence that the junkies on O'Connell Street are stealing. In fact Im very confident that the thefts are not committed by them. Its locals doing the majority of phone snatches, etc.

Who confined this to just junkies? How do you know who is and isn't a junkie? Does AGS keep a record of junkie crimes and non-junkie crimes? I'd be very interested to see that.

Grow up and tell them to go away FFS! You need someone to help you cross the road as well? By the way, most beggers are gypsies not junkies.

Erm... that's your effing job, not mine. I feel a whole lot safer now knowing that if I'm being harassed or threatened my friendly Garda will just leave me be to "grow up and tell them to go away!":rolleyes:

Not an arrestable offence. Gardai would be breaching your human rights if they arrested you during the day for this.

Literal lol. "Human rights" you can't make this kind of rubbish up. What human right would one be breaching for arresting someone for urinating in public? You're also incorrect by the way - s.5 of the 1994 act allows for our ever so helpful Gardaí to instruct them to stop and arrest them if they do no desist.

Despite media suggestions, affray is actually very rare. General public order aka fighting yes is sadly a common event and when it happens, people get arrested but we ain't everywhere.

Affray is not rare, I'm sorry. I have seen it in court weekly in places like Longford and Limerick - I can only presume that it comes before judges in the CCJ weekly as well, but I only do civil practise.

Obstruction of who exactly? Obstruction is an offence when you obstruct a Garda in the execution of their duties. Are you seriously suggesting Gardai do not arrest people that assault them?

I suggest you check out s9 of the 1994 act.

You realise that alcohol if not what a junkie actually abuses yes?

I think they abuse alcohol as well actually. Don't see why you're obsessed with junkies though.

Section 2 is begging and section 7 is the cash penalties under the public order Act 2011. Under the public order act 1994 section 2 is not about committing a specific act and section 7 relates to offensive leaflets, etc

I meant s2 of 2011 and actually s6 of 1994 - I was working off memory.

What law is it you think your quoting cause none of them have any relevance to junkies?

Again an obsession with junkies.

Thats reality, you can misquote the law if you want, you can say you saw whatever happening once BUT I guarantee your not seeing as much or dealing with as much of these people as Gardai do.

I happen to know a lot about "the law" - and if, as a Garda you are stating with certainty that there is nothing you can do about the issues I've mentioned, then you have your own agenda. So while you're misconstruing the information here and acting like there is nothing you can do because you're so bound by the legislation, I can see perfectly clearly how the system operates. No wonder the situation is so out of control when the Gardaí flat out tell people to "grow up" and deal with situations themselves. It's not just junkies, but they are a problem... aggressive begging, fighting, public intoxication, intimidating and harassing behaviour are rampant - you are saying there is nothing you can do about this? BULL****.

Want the situation solved by Gardai? Get the government to change the law or introduce new laws and recruit a hell of a lot more Gardai (or possible just stop having so many wasted on stupid protection posts and other ****e duties) then get the courts to actually back the new laws, back the Gardai when they arrest and actually do something when they get a person in front of them.

Seems like what we need is better Gardaí or more training.

starviewadams

Seemed to be a much stronger Garda presence around the City Centre today,saw uniformed Gardai arresting people on Liffey Street,Henry Street and in Temple Bar Square and at Central Bank at various times this afternoon and evening.Was a lot more out walking the beat too.

lima

I know it's not O'Connell St but here is a video I took in my (old) apartment just off Capel St a few weeks ago.. My bedroom backed out into a lane that I was told was safe, but regularly junkies would come down here and inject heroin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUlSeoklfAqihB0EbZGQQIKQ&v=XCdA1gkSeBY&feature=player_detailpage


In this case it's 3 guys, one is in a wheelchair, they are all eastern european. What you see is one of them injecting into the arm of the guy in the wheelchair. He then pulled his pants down and injected into his groin.

I used to call the guards but by the time they came (when the did come) they were gone.

Regularly, they would also get into my balcony and inject there. 2 meters from where I slept. Makes be sick thinking about it.

Anyway I've moved out of there now thank god.

HellFireClub

I popped into town on Saturday, the weather being good and all of that... I don't be in town very often at all so I had my eyes open with respect to the current discussion on here...

I went to the coffee shop on the boardwalk on Bachelors Walk there, I wasn't 2 minutes there when a crowd of junkie scumbags came along and took a table for themselves, yet made no purchases from the shop. The respectable looking foreign lad who was working there, politely asked them to move along. He was racially abused and threatened that he'd be fúcked into the river if he didn't leave them alone.

Then these 3 scumbags went off shouting and roaring, and 5 minutes another more menacing looking guy turned up and asked the proprietor to account for his harrassment of the 3 people who were asked to leave.

Now here's the situation as I see it:

The respectable proprietor of this business, is working hard and paying his tax.

His tax is paying for these junkie scumbag bastárds, to get free drugs, paid for by his tax, a free taxi laid on by the HSE, to bring him down to collect his free drugs, paid for with his tax, and a free taxi back home again, when he has collected his free drugs, again, all paid for by tax.

These scumbags will never work a day in their lives and are strutting around town as if they own the place, growling at people, making us look like a nation of absolute clowns who don't give a shít about our country or what we let go on in our capital city.

starviewadams

Did you or the coffee shop guy call the Gardai on the group of lads who racially abused him?

No good going on a hyperbole filled rant on an internet forum expecting the problem to solve itself!

highdef

I'm sure the coffee shop guy has rung many times in the past and has now realised that AGS now longer respond in due time because they do not deem it "an emergency". By the sounds of things HellFireClub also seems to know that a call to the emergency services will mean a response in god knows how long, at which point said junkies are probably on the hunt for their next fix!

I rarely visit the city these days but I can be confident in saying that Roma gypsies and junkies are destroying this city at an alarming rate and our protectors are doing shag all to resolve this issue.

It's an absolute disgrace and a story my partner told me a few months ago in relation to what happened when the guards encountered a couple of junkies doing a deal in broad daylight in the Talbot Street/Marlborough Street junction area has just sickened me and I have lost a lot of faith with regards to An Garda Siochana and what they represent.

FreudianSlippers

highdef wrote: »

I'm sure the coffee shop guy has rung many times in the past and has now realised that AGS now longer respond in due time because they do not deem it "an emergency". By the sounds of things HellFireClub also seems to know that a call to the emergency services will mean a response in god knows how long, at which point said junkies are probably on the hunt for their next fix!

I rarely visit the city these days but I can be confident in saying that Roma gypsies and junkies are destroying this city at an alarming rate and our protectors are doing shag all to resolve this issue.

It's an absolute disgrace and a story my partner told me a few months ago in relation to what happened when the guards encountered a couple of junkies doing a deal in broad daylight in the Talbot Street/Marlborough Street junction area has just sickened me and I have lost a lot of faith with regards to An Garda Siochana and what they represent.

I've seen them respond: by the time they get there the junkies have scattered and moved on. The Gardaí hang around for a bit, chat with the guy in the kiosk and leave. The junkies return almost immediately and harass the guy more than before.

HellFireClub

starviewadams wrote: »

Did you or the coffee shop guy call the Gardai on the group of lads who racially abused him?

No good going on a hyperbole filled rant on an internet forum expecting the problem to solve itself!

As it happens, a mate of mine is a Garda in Store Street and works the beat there on O' Connell Street/GPO and around that area. I had a chat with him about this whole situation before and he said that it is just impossible to do anything about the problem (from his end anyway), because it is drilled into him during training, that it is his job to bring these junkie scumbag bastárds to court, that's his role in the process, that and non other.

What happens to them thereafter, he is trained, is not his concern. He doesn't even get frustrated with the fact that someone who he may have arrested last week for being in possession of drugs, or shoplifting, or whatever, who was charged, is sauntering around on the same street, strung out on the same drugs, píssing off the same people, robbing the same shops, and basically generating the very same complaints, that he has to respond to all over again!!!

He describes it as nothing less than a sheer model of inefficiency and a working demonstration of a failure of public policy. However, he won't be putting his hand up to unmask the insanity of the job that he does, any time soon, as he is only putting in the hours in uniform, and keeping his head down, with a view to getting into a specialised non-uniformed unit within a year or two. And so the problem continues.

I'd also have to point out, that this in fairness, isn't his problem to ultimately resolve. He have a Minister of Justice, from as far as I can see, is the biggest asshóle in the country and hasn't the first clue of his brief... How many civil serpents are in our justice department and in other departments, who have a responsibility in this area, who are on salaries of 70k and upwards a year, to manage our policing and public order issues and are clearly beyond any account for this situation with our capital city overrun by junkie scum?

Odysseus

HellFireClub wrote: »

Now here's the situation as I see it:

The respectable proprietor of this business, is working hard and paying his tax.

His tax is paying for these junkie scumbag bastárds, to get free drugs, paid for by his tax, a free taxi laid on by the HSE, to bring him down to collect his free drugs, paid for with his tax, and a free taxi back home again, when he has collected his free drugs, again, all paid for by tax.

This is just incorrect, the HSE does not pay for taxi's to clinics urban myth.

HellFireClub

Odysseus wrote: »

This is just incorrect, the HSE does not pay for taxi's to clinics urban myth.

Yes it does. If you have a medical card and you are on a methadone program the HSE will pay for a taxi to pick you up, bring you to the dispensing centre for your HSE paid for methadone and bring you home. I know a taximan who does this work and he invoices the HSE directly for it. Also, pop down to the Methadone centre at Cherry Orchard in Ballyfermot any morning and notice the queues of taxi's there outside the place, somehow I doubt the junkies are paying for them. The exception might be if you live within a certain distance of a methadone clinic.

AnonoBoy

Eru wrote: »

Not an arrestable offence. Gardai would be breaching your human rights if they arrested you during the day for this.

Wait, you're a Garda and you think that public urination is NOT something a Garda can stop you from doing?

That speaks volumes about the training you received.

Odysseus

HellFireClub wrote: »

Yes it does. If you have a medical card and you are on a methadone program the HSE will pay for a taxi to pick you up, bring you to the dispensing centre for your HSE paid for methadone and bring you home. I know a taximan who does this work and he invoices the HSE directly for it. Also, pop down to the Methadone centre at Cherry Orchard in Ballyfermot any morning and notice the queues of taxi's there outside the place, somehow I doubt the junkies are paying for them. The exception might be if you live within a certain distance of a methadone clinic.

I grew up in Ballyer, I have worked for the Addiction Services since 96. A long time in the clinics, but I like it, however, I'm telling you this is not so. In certain circumstances we used to order a taxi, but these were few and far between. I haven't even seen a taxi book in about 7 years.

Actually the do pay for the taxi's themselves, the is a constant line of taxi's outside my clinic all day and we do not pay for them, like a lot of things that get posted about addiction treatment, this is wrong and more of an urban myth.

You mate is spoofing you if he is telling you that he gets paid to bring people to clinics rfrom that clinic. Fcuks sake we are lucky to be opening at the moment evening clinics closed, weekend clinics closed. As I said urban myth.

HellFireClub

Odysseus wrote: »

I grew up in Ballyer, I have worked for the Addiction Services since 96. A long time in the clinics, but I like it, however, I'm telling you this is not so. In certain circumstances we used to order a taxi, but these were few and far between. I haven't even seen a taxi book in about 7 years.

Actually the do pay for the taxi's themselves, the is a constant line of taxi's outside my clinic all day and we do not pay for them, like a lot of things that get posted about addiction treatment, this is wrong and more of an urban myth.

You mate is spoofing you if he is telling you that he gets paid to bring people to clinics rfrom that clinic. Fcuks sake we are lucky to be opening at the moment evening clinics closed, weekend clinics closed. As I said urban myth.

While I have to respect your experience on the subject, I recall seeing with my own eyes, on several occasions, a queue of taxi's in the morning outside the methadone clinic in Cherry Orchard and I have serious difficulty believing that junkies are paying for these taxi's. I also have a mate who says he has a regular line of work from the HSE for collecting people to bring them to the methadone clinic and bring them home again, and he invoices the HSE for it.

Whatever about the logistics of junkies getting their drugs, which we are not going to be able to agree on, do you accept that your tax is paying for free drugs for drug addicts???

Odysseus

HellFireClub wrote: »

While I have to respect your experience on the subject, I recall seeing with my own eyes, on several occasions, a queue of taxi's in the morning outside the methadone clinic in Cherry Orchard and I have serious difficulty believing that junkies are paying for these taxi's. I also have a mate who says he has a regular line of work from the HSE for collecting people to bring them to the methadone clinic and bring them home again, and he invoices the HSE for it.

Whatever about the logistics of junkies getting their drugs, which we are not going to be able to agree on, do you accept that your tax is paying for free drugs for drug addicts???

Of course I accept it, we are paying for treatment which involves a lot more than methadone. Methadone by the way is very inexpensive, paying for doctors, pharamacists to prescribe it pushes up the cost, then of course proper treatment for people. Methadone is only a small part of a treatment package.

So yeah I pay for treatment, it's a tad more complex than just free drugs for people. Don't get me wrong of course treatment needs to be improved in order to get better outcomes, but to get than we need more tax dollars; that is the only way to fget better outcomes. Sadly we are cutting back at the moment which will mean I go to more funeral each year, and of course spend more time in our prisons. That is what it comes down to, if you want treatment to improve, it is going to cost the state.

Then we have harm reduction programmes like needle exchanges, we also give out foil to smoke gear with, that is expensive, lately pipes for crack have been added. These result in a reduction in medical problems which actually save the state money and lives too, but like everything else they cost.

One thing I find it that most people have no time for addicts until one of their family ends up caught in the spiral of addiction, then it all screams of why "something" cannot be done. Families who cannot afford it, going to the Credit Union to pay for p!ss poor treatment option like detox 5.

On the topic of taxi's all the local firms love the clinics, often clients have a deal with a regular driver, a set amount for the week, picked up a certain time everyday, often paided on the day they get their dole. That is not to said that the HSE does not pay for the odd taxi, in special circumstances, but as I said I haven't even seen a taxi book in over a year if not two. Taxi's make a fcuking mint off clients attending a clinic. Clients can get a letter off staff, if they attend the clinic more than 3-4 times a week to get a bus pass off the CWO.

latenia

Odysseus wrote: »

Then we have harm reduction programmes like needle exchanges, we also give out foil to smoke gear with, that is expensive, lately pipes for crack have been added.

You're seriously saying that the government is spending the tax take (or the money we're forced to borrow from the IMF if you want to look at it that way) on free crack pipes? WTF? I knew the HSE was a black hole of wastage but that really is a fckng joke.

Ash.J.Williams

latenia wrote: »

You're seriously saying that the government is spending the tax take (or the money we're forced to borrow from the IMF if you want to look at it that way) on free crack pipes? WTF? I knew the HSE was a black hole of wastage but that really is a fckng joke.

Where's my crack pipe?

starviewadams

How is that a joke?it's harm reduction.

Would cost the HSE more in the long run to treat medical problems asociated with using harmful/toxic substances in home made crack pipes then it would to give out safe ones for free.

frag420

Get in line!!:D

latenia

starviewadams wrote: »

How is that a joke?it's harm reduction.

Would cost the HSE more in the long run to treat medical problems asociated with using harmful/toxic substances in home made crack pipes then it would to give out safe ones for free.

It seems to me that they're beginning to apply the maintenance system (which has been an utter failure anyway) to cocaine addiction, which is a totally different drug, and so expand the industry they've created. Possible contaminants from makeshift pipes are probably the least of a crackhead's worries about their lungs.

Odysseus

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Where's my crack pipe?

I have a few in my bag, what are you offering?

bobin fudge

unless this is a new thing I know of no places giving tin foil or crack pipes out to addicts

Also with the taxis, if you have an abcess or somthing restricting your movements you can get a taxi or what not -not sure if this is still the case but it certainly was not too long ago

This is from Scotland but in todays DR -very interesting

£36 million a year

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/chemists-raking-it-in-thanks-to-methadone-industry-1269946

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/methadone-addicts-getting-no-help-1271630

Odysseus

bobin fudge wrote: »

unless this is a new thing I know of no places giving tin foil or crack pipes out to addicts

Also with the taxis, if you have an abcess or somthing restricting your movements you can get a taxi or what not -not sure if this is still the case but it certainly was not too long ago

Pipes are selected locations only at the moment as it is currently a research project. All HSE exchanges give out foil and most community ones too, where are you basing your info on, I can understand people not being aware of the pipes, but we been giving out foil for years.

That is not a policy for taxis, I see people limping to clinics all the time. How are you coming up with this conclusions?

bobin fudge

I didnt know about the tinfoil so I stand corrected on that -I was never an addict myself but I knew plenty from my area that would go to the clinic on castle street and merchants quay drop in centre.

As for the Taxi's it was a friend who was coming out of hospital that day and was going to miss the clinic and was able to wangle themselves for the clinic to pay for it -could be complete fabrication and as you work in this industry I would be inclined to take your word on it

Odysseus

bobin fudge wrote: »

I didnt know about the tinfoil so I stand corrected on that -I was never an addict myself but I knew plenty from my area that would go to the clinic on castle street and merchants quay drop in centre.

As for the Taxi's it was a friend who was coming out of hospital that day and was going to miss the clinic and was able to wangle themselves for the clinic to pay for it -could be complete fabrication and as you work in this industry I would be inclined to take your word on it

That is different, the is a chance that a taxi was ordered in that case, though based on what you have writen I would say it would not be paid for in most clinics. However, even if it was that is a one off situation, which is different to the claim of taxis to and from every day. Maybe someone made an individual call in that case, but it is far from a policy if you get my pioint.

On the foil yeah, we have been giving that out for about 7 years now IIRC, I don't know the price but I know it expensive.

bobin fudge

ironically it was about 2004 that I moved out of the area and all that so that makes sense now as to why I wasnt sure, isnt there 2 different textures on normal foil when smoking it -one more dangerous than the other side or is that just a myth? what type of tinfoil do they give away is it just standard rolls from a shop?

thanks

Odysseus

bobin fudge wrote: »

ironically it was about 2004 that I moved out of the area and all that so that makes sense now as to why I wasnt sure, isnt there 2 different textures on normal foil when smoking it -one more dangerous than the other side or is that just a myth? what type of tinfoil do they give away is it just standard rolls from a shop?

thanks

No it is a different type than we buy in the shops. Basically with the stuff in the shops toxins are released when it is burned, most people report a significant different in the chest when they use our stuff. So long term it is aimed at a reduction in chest problems.

HellFireClub

Odysseus wrote: »

No it is a different type than we buy in the shops. Basically with the stuff in the shops toxins are released when it is burned, most people report a significant different in the chest when they use our stuff. So long term it is aimed at a reduction in chest problems.

The whole mindset to me here is completely defective from the top down. The only harm reduction program that should be entertained is one that is based around complete freedom on drugs. Anything else is criminal in nature and if the person doesn't want to get off drugs, (and if they do, they should be afforded every assistance), but if they don't, the only place for them should be in custody, where by the way they should not be able to feed their addiction in there either.

It's completely unacceptable that there is literally an army of junkie scum that has taken over the capital city of the country, and it's a public sector, "for the file", "ah sure I'll have whatever you're having", while pathetically pandering to the Irish Council for Civil Liberties mindset, that has failed to confront the problem.

Odysseus

HellFireClub wrote: »

The whole mindset to me here is completely defective from the top down. The only harm reduction program that should be entertained is one that is based around complete freedom on drugs. Anything else is criminal in nature and if the person doesn't want to get off drugs, (and if they do, they should be afforded every assistance), but if they don't, the only place for them should be in custody, where by the way they should not be able to feed their addiction in there either.

It's completely unacceptable that there is literally an army of junkie scum that has taken over the capital city of the country, and it's a public sector, "for the file", "ah sure I'll have whatever you're having", while pathetically pandering to the Irish Council for Civil Liberties mindset, that has failed to confront the problem.

Ah now come on, that last bit is utter sh!te, firstly not every addict spends their day hanging around town. Lots of them are too busy with work and things like that.

Now yes we should be don't more to facilitate a drug free life for those who want it, that doesn't mean that it will become a reality for all addicts. We need to work with those who for many different reasons will never be drug free, the interventions we use there will range from reducing associated harm Hep C/HIV to methadone. If somebody can engage with life, family and work responsibilites whilst on methadone why shouldn't they?

It may be unacceptable to you, but tha is only your opinion. Is it based on any psychological or medical training, becasue that is what we provide medical and psychological treatment, it is not a case of "free drugs" as some people think.

I perfer to work in a methadone clinic as opposed to a drug free centre, it is more comlex work; but more enjoyable too. You don't see the clients who engage in treatment and address their addiction, because they are not hanging around. Addicts are people, of course we need to respect their human rights, to think we can just over-ride that is ... Well tbh I don't know what to say

What do you suggest? That we round up all addicts? What then? What if they are that damaged that life without drugs is not an option? What would you suggest we do there

Please do resort to call me a PC whatever, I believe if you break the law you should be punished. I have to write court reports for people and if are not engaging in treatment I have no problem letting the judge know. However, I don't believe that just because a person is on a clinic that they lose all their rights.