The State of O'Connell St

January

Solair wrote: »

I don't agree that you can't force addicts to attend treatment. There's no way you could do it with the current underfunded services, but with a properly resources system you could.

Where someone's up for a drug induced petty crime, that should simply have an option of a) treatment or b) prison

We're neither putting the resources in not are we being tough enough.

I feel sorry for people who have had it tough, been traumatised and ended up on hard drugs. However, if they're a danger to themselves and to members of the public the state has a duty to step in.

Its neither putting in the resources nor is it putting in the judicial policies to achieve a public safety improvement.

At the end of the day, you really cannot have a situation where people are being robbed, harassed, burgled or assaulted by people off their faces on 'gear'.

You also can't have a situation where dealers destroy vulnerable people's lives by pushing this stuff.

I just think we've allowed a situation to get totally out of control and its resulting in both petty crime and really dangerous violent crime.

You know Ireland's now at the top of the scale for gun-related deaths in the EU (even though our overall murder rate is low) and almost all of that is attributable to the drug trade.

I just do not agree that people have a human right to get drugged up to their eyeballs and put the rest of society at risk by doing so.

The problem is not bring solved and its now going on on a big scale for 30+ years.

I'm really not up to debating this but it's not as easy at it seems for someone on the outside looking in. Being a family member of a drug addict that died two years ago, we tried everything, and spent thousands in the process of trying to get them clean.

A junkie will never give up drugs unless they're willing and ready to give them up. In the case of my uncle he got clean several times, for at most up to a year and then he'd suddenly be back on them again.

EyeSight

The reason it's so bad is some people have the "it happens in every city" attitude.

That is true, but in almost all cities it is not tolerated on the main streets. I've lived in many major cities and have never seen any main street like OCS. It's a joke! the junkies are running that part of the city
Also i think the amount of times junkies approach people(mostly harmless but still intimidating to most people) in Dublin is higher than i've experienced elsewhere

I may be a little naive here, i'm not nearly a law expert, but everyone in the country knows the main drug lords of Ireland, why is there little resources being put in to going after them? Surely their operations are not so sophisticated that we cannot catch them.

Ole Rodrigo

I have to agree with the sentiments on the junkies. On one hand, they rarely bother anyone and seem to be a source of fascination for visiting tourists. They are entitled to receive treatment for their conditions, and those facilities have to be somewhere. They are obviously also entitled to the same liberties and freedoms as anyone else under the constitution.

On the other hand they are ruining the good work the CC has done on O'Connell Street over the recent years. I feel sorry for people working around there, to have to witness them every day must be a bit depressing. At least the tourists can go home after a few days. I don't live to far away myself and hearing the constant whinging and whining and more importantly the fact that nobody in out public administration has come up with a sensible solution in spite f the public concern. I wonder how other European cities have dealt with the problem ? Maybe thats worth looking into. As other have said, it doesnt seem to be as big a problem anywhere else.

I have an idea as it happens. Its called Zombieland. Sort of like a theme park for Zombies where people into Zombie culture could go and dress up and put on all the makeup and waddle around for the day in a plastic post apocalyptic setting. It would be staffed by Dublins junkies, in return for social welfare and treatment options. They could even live there. Sort of like Needle park meets Disneyland but with Zombies. There would be Zombie burgers and films showing and everything. Then everyone could get a laugh out of it, including them..

Totally Tropical

Solair wrote: »

To be realistic, Dublin has a really bad heroin problem. I've lived in a few cities in Europe and Dublin & Brussels rank as the two with a very "in your face" drug problem.

I'm now starting to see staggering junkies in Cork city centre too which is really disappointing as it was always relatively OK.

We really aren't doing enough about this problem. It's been bad for as long as I remember and it seems to be getting worse not better.

I'm sorry to have to say this but I really think Dubliners have become desensitised to junkies.

I am always horrified at how in your face it is when I come back from far bigger cities to Dublin.

It's really, really bad.

For example, I was sitting outside a cafe in the area around George's St and we had to move inside due to endless harassment from wandering junkies. That really doesn't happen elsewhere and it didn't happen too often in Dublin even about 5 years ago.

Although I do remember my school having to close playing fields in the 90s due to needles! Some idiots were shooting up on a school's pitches! This was in one of Dublin's snootier southside suburbs too, not the city centre!

It's getting a lot worse and very rapidly from what I can see and very little is being done about it.

From what I can see, apart from a few city centre (from various Irish cities) TDs the majority of the Dail is oblivious to the problem and nothing happens to resolve it.

Dublin has had a heroin problem for years so this is no big secret or anything.I don't know why the guards can't organise regular patrols of the area around Eden Quay,O'Connell Street,Abbey Street and Talbot Streets.Junkies and other related lowlife seem to have free reign around there.If the willpower was there by the gardai and the city council that part of town would be a lot safer.Look at Liverpool there are areas in Liverpool that make the worst parts of Dublin look very quiet and peaceful in comparison but the city centre is very clean and safe.We can't get rid of the heroin problem in Irelands main cities but we can make sure that it's not a major issue in our city centres.

Totally Tropical

chinwag wrote: »

O'Connell St around the Spire area has really gone to the dogs with drug addicts 'floating' around after they get their 'fix', it can be quite threatening for people going about their business. Apart from the human tragedy, it must be an eye opener for tourists coming here to witness this sight on our main street. I would think that Dublin's drug problem must rank as one of the worst of major cities (although recently on a visit to Cork I found the problem there quite depressing too).

The heroin problem has over the course of the past 7 years spread to Cork and Limerick.I know that Cork and Limerick have heroin problems that are getting bigger with every passing year but i always felt the problem wasn't as open or as noticeable in those places as it is in Dublin.However i was in Cork last April and i noticed a discarded syringe on North Main Street and runners hanging from a telephone line on the Coal Quay.So that is obviously changing and your post confirms that.Is there any hope for these cities?Can the problem be contained as such?

Seanchai

O Connell Street looks like the Champs-Élysées when you turn the corner on to Parnell Street. What a hole, and it's getting worse. Was looking at it the other day - the part where Fibber McGee's used to be - and it defies belief that the City Council can allow Parnell Street's decline to continue. A first rate kip, crumbling for all the world to see.

Do they even have a plan to renovate the entire street? Apparently there are 52 members of Dublin City Council.... 52 people who are paid to care about this city and speak out about its problems.

Legislation governing shop fronts and the refurbishment or demolition of deteriorating buildings is badly needed across this state. For instance, along the Grand Canal, directly across the road from The Barge, there is a row of houses boarded up for decades now. Why is this sort of blight allowed to destroy this city (and urban centres across Ireland)?

Totally Tropical

Seanchai wrote: »

O Connell Street looks like the Champs-Élysées when you turn the corner on to Parnell Street. What a hole, and it's getting worse. Was looking at it the other day - the part where Fibber McGee's used to be - and it defies belief that the City Council can allow Parnell Street's decline to continue. A first rate kip, crumbling for all the world to see.

Do they even have a plan to renovate the entire street? Apparently there are 52 members of Dublin City Council.... 52 people who are paid to care about this city and speak out about its problems.

Legislation governing shop fronts and the refurbishment or demolition of deteriorating buildings is badly needed across this state. For instance, along the Grand Canal, directly across the road from The Barge, there is a row of houses boarded up for decades now. Why is this sort of blight allowed to destroy this city (and urban centres across Ireland)?

I notice your location is in Belfast.Does Belfast have the same problems with drug addicts on it's main streets that Dublin and to a lesser extent Cork and Limerick have?

2cool4school

Seanchai wrote: »

O Connell Street looks like the Champs-Élysées when you turn the corner on to Parnell Street. What a hole, and it's getting worse. Was looking at it the other day - the part where Fibber McGee's used to be - and it defies belief that the City Council can allow Parnell Street's decline to continue. A first rate kip, crumbling for all the world to see.

fair play this needed saying

parnell street seems to be ground zero for some of the scum that stain the city too. they seem to drift between ocs and parnell but never go too far from one or the other. i was coming out of chapters a couple of months ago and as i approached the door to leave this decrepit junkie staggered into the doorway on crutches complete with blood soaked bandages dangling from both hand rests. i had to take a few steps back and wait for him to make up his mind to turn back because a book shop was clearly no place for him to be. no smack in there...

i was genuinely afraid of coming into direct contact with the guy, he looked rabid. but any time im up that direction there are numerous bandaged zombies weaving in and out of the traffic with gay abandon hassling people for money and fags. what is the story do they all live right there? how can they be there all day every day?

dfx-

chinwag wrote: »

O'Connell St around the Spire area has really gone to the dogs with drug addicts 'floating' around after they get their 'fix', it can be quite threatening for people going about their business. Apart from the human tragedy, it must be an eye opener for tourists coming here to witness this sight on our main street. I would think that Dublin's drug problem must rank as one of the worst of major cities (although recently on a visit to Cork I found the problem there quite depressing too).

I stood at the Spire for over an hour in the morning last week and I walked from D'Olier St onto O'Connell Bridge and past the Spire at 2330 tonight and on neither occasion saw or was approached by any such individual on it or any side street.

jill_valentine

2cool4school wrote: »

fair play this needed saying

parnell street seems to be ground zero for some of the scum that stain the city too. they seem to drift between ocs and parnell but never go too far from one or the other. i was coming out of chapters a couple of months ago and as i approached the door to leave this decrepit junkie staggered into the doorway on crutches complete with blood soaked bandages dangling from both hand rests. i had to take a few steps back and wait for him to make up his mind to turn back because a book shop was clearly no place for him to be. no smack in there...

i was genuinely afraid of coming into direct contact with the guy, he looked rabid. but any time im up that direction there are numerous bandaged zombies weaving in and out of the traffic with gay abandon hassling people for money and fags. what is the story do they all live right there? how can they be there all day every day?

And not to be all Helen Lovejoy about it, but Smyths Toys is right on the corner with Jervis Street. When I used to work there, it wasn't at all unknown for the odd junkie to start fights with security staff or pass out on the floor, literally foaming at the mouth, in full view of the child and adult customers, in the middle of the day. That was quite a while ago, I can only imagine it's gotten worse since.

I worked in a shop in the Ilac centre itself some time afterwards, and I have to say, it wasn't half as bad as the toyshop for disruptive and clearly chemically impaired troublemakers.

mikemac1

Often used to sit by the canal at lunchtime on my own to chill.

Rarely if ever do that anymore, you'll find several addicts hanging around roaring to each other.

Though listening to Joe Duffy this week you cannot say addicts. You must say "unwell people"

They'll ignore everyone else but I don't fancy sitting there on my own and an expensive phone in my pocket. And what's with the roaring?? You'd hear less roaring from fans in Croker

The council did a nice job in the area and Waterways Ireland drained it and cleaned it up.

What was the point? :rolleyes: The feckers throw their empties into the canal and sometimes aim for the ducks & swans :mad:

From what I can see many of them attend the clinic on Amiens St and just hang around all day.

I've sat there at 10am on a Saturday morning resting after a gym session and the can drinkers are already out and about.

Edit, right beside a national school and a public library and all!
That's the school and playground in the left of the photo

liffeylite

I know the point has been made before, but the council needs to look at moving the treatment centres from the north city centre, out into other areas. As mentioned, they tend to congregate around the treatment centres. this isn't an Ireland problem, they do this everywhere. however, Dublin has a ridiculous policy of having so many centres in the city centre.

you cannot solve the problem of drug addiction overnight, but you can clear the city centre and make it a safer and more attractive place for locals and tourists alike. the net benefits of this would be people would shop and move around these areas more freely, new businesses would open up as footfall increases and the whole area would take an uplift.

it is in the council and community's interest, financially and aesthetically, to move the addicts away from the central commercial areas.

The situation in Dublin just doesn't happen in UK cities. Even the roughest places in the UK just don't have junkies swarming around the city centre.

The fact that the council could see some of the treatment centres and make good profit on them as they are prime city centre development land only adds to the argument for them being moved.

However, I really do not understand why A) the government doesn't begin to do this is a phased manner or Why there isn't more pressure on the government to make this happen from the local population!

could you imagine this happening in France? there would be riots in the streets until the government did something about it! they would make it happen.

it seems everyone complains about it, but I don't know how much of this concern is ever really conveyed to the relevant bodies. Lets start a boards petition

mattjack

liffeylite wrote: »

I know the point has been made before, but the council needs to look at moving the treatment centres from the north city centre, out into other areas. As mentioned, they tend to congregate around the treatment centres. this isn't an Ireland problem, they do this everywhere. however, Dublin has a ridiculous policy of having so many centres in the city centre.

you cannot solve the problem of drug addiction overnight, but you can clear the city centre and make it a safer and more attractive place for locals and tourists alike. the net benefits of this would be people would shop and move around these areas more freely, new businesses would open up as footfall increases and the whole area would take an uplift.

it is in the council and community's interest, financially and aesthetically, to move the addicts away from the central commercial areas.

The situation in Dublin just doesn't happen in UK cities. Even the roughest places in the UK just don't have junkies swarming around the city centre.

The fact that the council could see some of the treatment centres and make good profit on them as they are prime city centre development land only adds to the argument for them being moved.

However, I really do not understand why A) the government doesn't begin to do this is a phased manner or Why there isn't more pressure on the government to make this happen from the local population!

could you imagine this happening in France? there would be riots in the streets until the government did something about it! they would make it happen.

it seems everyone complains about it, but I don't know how much of this concern is ever really conveyed to the relevant bodies. Lets start a boards petition

whoch ones are in the North City Centre

EyeSight

dfx- wrote: »

I stood at the Spire for over an hour in the morning last week and I walked from D'Olier St onto O'Connell Bridge and past the Spire at 2330 tonight and on neither occasion saw or was approached by any such individual on it or any side street.

Come on! We all go through that street without being approached, but we still see what's going on their and them approaching others. They don't approach me every time but most of the time they do, some leave me alone when i say no, some shout abuse at me, others try to intimidate me.
Can you honestly say you don't see it?

I think if they stopped taking over OCS and Parnell street, more stores would open and it could turn into the best street in the city(Grafton street is far too cramped). There's no excuse for leaving it get this bad

miamee

We should drop all members of the Dail off in a bus at the Rotunda and tell them the bus will pick them up at O'Connell Bridge. See how they feel about it when its not just an issue in an email/phonecall/whatever and they have to run the gauntlet that can sometimes be O'Connell Street.

The Hill Billy

The lads in the Dail are meant to take care of national issues. It is the Dublin City Councillors that address matters affecting the city.

TBH, I've only been in the City Centre two or three times in the past four years (I had worked there pretty much for 20-odd years) & I found the change to O'Connell Street to be quite significant. A lot more intimidating thanks to the increased numbers of ne'er-do-wells hanging out the length of the street.

I think that there are Council elections coming up next year. Our capital deserves that this be a matter that needs addressing & the best chance we have to wring a promise out of those who can do something is at election time.

It's not just a heroin problem - Alcohol fuels a lot of the anti-social behaviour, also. Anything North of the central bank can be incredibly rough and intimidating at times. The other day there was a guy walking down Henry St. draped in a sleeping bag, inhaling from some sort of spray-paint type can, screaming into the shops as if he was about to run in and attack someone randomly.

It's a cesspit. This country is fúcked. Think of how much money we're already spending on services to prevent this sort of thing - and how little an impact it has. There is nothing that makes me want to leave Dublin as much as it's unpleasantness.

Us regular citizens become have become second class citizens in our own city, harassed by the junky gestapo. And I honestly don't see the toothless and corrupt council doing anything about it. After all, isn't Quirkies not supposed to be a casino? Being mates with a few councillors probably helps, though.

I'm sure there'll be one or two people who will blame underfunding - but we already spend billions on these problems. The problem is that our local leadership is comprised of morons whose only chance of cleaning up the city would be if they were to take control of and thus ruin the heroin trade through their own ineptitude.

liffeylite

I think it is important to keep things in perspective. Dublin is a great city with great facilities, natural geography and fantastic arts and entertainment etc etc. Only London in the UK and Ireland betters it for the choice it has in everything from Restaurants to Retail.

And it beats London hands down for the natural beauty it offers - beaches, mountains, countryside, fishing harbours, coastline etc.

It has everything you can realistically ask for, and in abundance ( bar the good weather of course )

However, the junkie problem in the north city centre is an issue that engulfs Dublin and Dublin alone on the scale it is now at.

The difference between the north city centre and the South city centre is vast. Now I don't want to be one of those guys that screams the South is better than the North etc, that is complete rubbish. However, the fact that the junkie issue is so prevalent in the North centre really does colour peoples opinion of the area, and rightly so.

The financial crisis is something that will take a long time to unravel, but the junkie issue could be so easily addressed if a concerted effort was made by the council to actually do something about it.

As a previous poster mentions, O Connell street is a fantastic street and should be the most important and attractive boulevard in the Country.
Why it is left for the junkies to rampage through god only knows.

Could you imagine the change in the perception of the city locals and tourists alike would have if the issue was solved overnight? The thing is, although it cant be remedied that quickly, it can be done. And what a difference it would make to every ones lives in the city.

mattjack

liffeylite wrote: »

I think it is important to keep things in perspective. Dublin is a great city with great facilities, natural geography and fantastic arts and entertainment etc etc. Only London in the UK and Ireland betters it for the choice it has in everything from Restaurants to Retail.

And it beats London hands down for the natural beauty it offers - beaches, mountains, countryside, fishing harbours, coastline etc.

It has everything you can realistically ask for, and in abundance ( bar the good weather of course )

However, the junkie problem in the north city centre is an issue that engulfs Dublin and Dublin alone on the scale it is now at.

The difference between the north city centre and the South city centre is vast. Now I don't want to be one of those guys that screams the South is better than the North etc, that is complete rubbish. However, the fact that the junkie issue is so prevalent in the North centre really does colour peoples opinion of the area, and rightly so.

The financial crisis is something that will take a long time to unravel, but the junkie issue could be so easily addressed if a concerted effort was made by the council to actually do something about it.

As a previous poster mentions, O Connell street is a fantastic street and should be the most important and attractive boulevard in the Country.
Why it is left for the junkies to rampage through god only knows.

Could you imagine the change in the perception of the city locals and tourists alike would have if the issue was solved overnight? The thing is, although it cant be remedied that quickly, it can be done. And what a difference it would make to every ones lives in the city.

In a previous post you mentioned treatment centres in the North City Centre suggesting moving them.In this post you mention and comment on a divide between north and south... which treatment centres are you talking about moving ?

liffeylite

mattjack wrote: »

In a previous post you mentioned treatment centres in the North City Centre suggesting moving them.In this post you mention and comment on a divide between north and south... which treatment centres are you talking about moving ?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-claim-operation-stilts-is-making-streets-safer-26843038.html

this doesn't wholly answer your question. but I have seen other info documenting the number of them in the north CC. I will have a look for you.

mattjack

liffeylite wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-claim-operation-stilts-is-making-streets-safer-26843038.html

this doesn't wholly answer your question. but I have seen other info documenting the number of them in the north CC. I will have a look for you.

I work for one of the agencies mentioned in that article and the information given in it is incorrect.Whoever that journalist is didn,t do himself the justice of even doing basic research on the agencies mentioned.

dfx-

EyeSight wrote: »

Come on! We all go through that street without being approached, but we still see what's going on their and them approaching others. They don't approach me every time but most of the time they do, some leave me alone when i say no, some shout abuse at me, others try to intimidate me.
Can you honestly say you don't see it?

I did it again the opposite way late tonight. Walked down Marlborough St onto Talbot St to O'Connell St and back over to Dame St. Hardly anyone around at all.

My point is that talk of the 'gauntlet of OCS' is hype. Westmoreland Street is much worse, actually...

Solair

Totally Tropical wrote: »

runners hanging from a telephone line on the Coal Quay.?

I'm not sure the runners hanging from the wires mean much to be perfectly honest. I've seen gangs of teenagers throwing them up for a 'laugh'.

lods

dfx- wrote: »

I did it again the opposite way late tonight. Walked down Marlborough St onto Talbot St to O'Connell St and back over to Dame St. Hardly anyone around at all.

My point is that talk of the 'gauntlet of OCS' is hype. Westmoreland Street is much worse, actually...

The issue is during the day , when they've attending the clinic in Amiens Street or have been put out of the overnight hostels .They then just wonder the streets for the day.

cloud493

I've never seen anything as bad on westmoreland street. Worst I've seen there is chuggers.

EyeSight

dfx- wrote: »

I did it again the opposite way late tonight. Walked down Marlborough St onto Talbot St to O'Connell St and back over to Dame St. Hardly anyone around at all.

My point is that talk of the 'gauntlet of OCS' is hype. Westmoreland Street is much worse, actually...

I have to disagree with you. Westmoreland street is bad sometimes, i feel there should be a guarda presence there during rush hour bus activities.
But are you saying we do not have a massive junkie problem in the city center?
I think it happens all over, even the south side. Last night i while getting money from an ATM a junkie told me i was "a ****te ya" for not giving him change. It's hard to find an ATM without a junkie sitting under it....

kksaints

cloud493 wrote: »

I've never seen anything as bad on westmoreland street. Worst I've seen there is chuggers.

Ive seen plenty of drug addicts on Westmoreland Street annoying people for change and such. Also seen a few bag snatching attempts by them aswell.

[Jackass]

On O'Connell St., it amazes me the difference literally, stepping over O'Connell bridge makes.

The south inner city has a great appearance, you can feel the history of the city, beautiful parks and streets, but the minute you cross over the liffey, for whatever reason, the whole North inner city is a complete and utter sh*t hole. The streets change into these grey scale dumps full of knackers, the people change, it's actually pretty amazing...but north inner city dublin is an absolute dump and it's a shame, O'Connell street has potential to be the main attraction of the city, but they need to pass compulsury purchase orders on all the crap that lines the street, get all the tack out of there like casinos, some nut job saved by jesus shop, junk food, internet cafe / cheap call shops etc. etc. and make it more like Grafton street and try to have some nice bars and cafes on it too.

Move all the junkie rehab places out of the main streets of Ireland and clean the whole place up and police it heavily and move that type out of the area or arrest them for public order offences if they keep hanging around (begging, intoxicated in public and creating disburbance, dealing drugs and / or being strung out are all illegal after all).

The city would be infinitely nicer, and bigger, if the whole norh inner city wasn't a dump and was cleaned up.

The Hill Billy

Sweeping generalisations about the North Inner City & referring to its residents as 'Knackers' will not be tolerated.

tHB

Amalgam

[Jackass] wrote: »

and make it more like Grafton street..

[Edna Krabappel]Hah![/Edna Krabappel]

Grafton Street is a rather bland Street, North or South Dublin, if that's your barometer of, 'refined', well..