The State of O'Connell St

mattjack

[Jackass] wrote: »

On O'Connell St., it amazes me the difference literally, stepping over O'Connell bridge makes.

The south inner city has a great appearance, you can feel the history of the city, beautiful parks and streets, but the minute you cross over the liffey, for whatever reason, the whole North inner city is a complete and utter sh*t hole. The streets change into these grey scale dumps full of knackers, the people change, it's actually pretty amazing...but north inner city dublin is an absolute dump and it's a shame, O'Connell street has potential to be the main attraction of the city, but they need to pass compulsury purchase orders on all the crap that lines the street, get all the tack out of there like casinos, some nut job saved by jesus shop, junk food, internet cafe / cheap call shops etc. etc. and make it more like Grafton street and try to have some nice bars and cafes on it too.

Move all the junkie rehab places out of the main streets of Ireland and clean the whole place up and police it heavily and move that type out of the area or arrest them for public order offences if they keep hanging around (begging, intoxicated in public and creating disburbance, dealing drugs and / or being strung out are all illegal after all).

The city would be infinitely nicer, and bigger, if the whole norh inner city wasn't a dump and was cleaned up.

Apart from the "bleeding obvious " with the GPO there is some great history in and around O Connell Street , there's still an original house there pre 1916 , do you know where the last resident lived in the Street .. up until quite recently ? you have of course seen the architecture in North Great Georges Street and have you ever seen the "Basin" ?
Everybody knows what unique about O Connell Bridge , right ?

Tigerandahalf

Too many fast food outlets on what could be a lovely st. Nice cafes would make a difference, some nice gardening. It is a shame that the street that the Rebel leaders based their Rising on now is covered with chippers.

Edit. Given how many bridges are now on the Liffey and how traffic is very busy at entrance to Trinity college maybe they should pedestrianise OConnell St except for taxis and public transport.

EyeSight

Amalgam wrote: »

[Edna Krabappel]Hah![/Edna Krabappel]

Grafton Street is a rather bland Street, North or South Dublin, if that's your barometer of, 'refined', well..

I don't think the poster mean any offence to the north side. Just when you compare both sides main streets, OCS and Grafton street, theres a huge difference.
As i said before, if OCS was cleaned up it would be 100 times better than the cramped grafton street. It saddens me so much to see the wasted potential. The surrounding areas would benefit also.

Cool Mo D

[Jackass] wrote: »

On O'Connell St., it amazes me the difference literally, stepping over O'Connell bridge makes.

The south inner city has a great appearance, you can feel the history of the city, beautiful parks and streets, but the minute you cross over the liffey, for whatever reason, the whole North inner city is a complete and utter sh*t hole. The streets change into these grey scale dumps full of knackers, the people change, it's actually pretty amazing...but north inner city dublin is an absolute dump and it's a shame, O'Connell street has potential to be the main attraction of the city, but they need to pass compulsury purchase orders on all the crap that lines the street, get all the tack out of there like casinos, some nut job saved by jesus shop, junk food, internet cafe / cheap call shops etc. etc. and make it more like Grafton street and try to have some nice bars and cafes on it too.

Move all the junkie rehab places out of the main streets of Ireland and clean the whole place up and police it heavily and move that type out of the area or arrest them for public order offences if they keep hanging around (begging, intoxicated in public and creating disburbance, dealing drugs and / or being strung out are all illegal after all).

The city would be infinitely nicer, and bigger, if the whole norh inner city wasn't a dump and was cleaned up.

I really can't imagine how you find, say, Westmoreland Street or D'Olier street nicer than O'Connell street.

Tigerandahalf

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Too many fast food outlets on what could be a lovely st. Nice cafes would make a difference, some nice gardening. It is a shame that the street that the Rebel leaders based their Rising on now is covered with chippers.

Edit. Given how many bridges are now on the Liffey and how traffic is very busy at entrance to Trinity college maybe they should pedestrianise OConnell St except for taxis and public transport.

Changing the businesses that exist on O' Connell st. will do absolutely NOTHING towards fixing the problem, which is the people. I can only think of two solutions off-hand:

1 - price unsavory characters out of the city centre. No more free bus passes, no more reasons for them to be in the city centre - move treatment centres out of the central part of Dublin City. All council flats etc need to be moved out of the city.

2 - Give guards the authority and mission of breaking up and moving on any collection of unsavory characters that happens to gather. Outside any convenience store on the Northside of the city you're sure to see groups of dodgy people handing each other things, shouting/making everyone else uncomfortable, and the odd time fighting amongst each other. If someone is intoxicated, arrest them and throw them in a cell for the evening as a matter of urgency.


The scum aren't in town buying chips from the chippers on O'Connell st, and if you think that it's the low quality food that's luring them into the city then you are most definitely mistaken. They are lured in through free travel and drug treatment, combined with the fact that it's a place of business and leisure, full of shoppers and other consumers who are prime begging/robbing targets.

We need to get real about this. The shops will change when the appropriate clientele feel comfortable having a nice and leisurely consumer experience in the area. At the moment, this is an extremely distant thought. I mean, would you sit out and have a coffee at the side of O'Connell st?

mattjack

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Changing the businesses that exist on O' Connell st. will do absolutely NOTHING towards fixing the problem, which is the people. I can only think of two solutions off-hand:

1 - price unsavory characters out of the city centre. No more free bus passes, no more reasons for them to be in the city centre - move treatment centres out of the central part of Dublin City. All council flats etc need to be moved out of the city.

2 - Give guards the authority and mission of breaking up and moving on any collection of unsavory characters that happens to gather. Outside any convenience store on the Northside of the city you're sure to see groups of dodgy people handing each other things, shouting/making everyone else uncomfortable, and the odd time fighting amongst each other. If someone is intoxicated, arrest them and throw them in a cell for the evening as a matter of urgency.


The scum aren't in town buying chips from the chippers on O'Connell st, and if you think that it's the low quality food that's luring them into the city then you are most definitely mistaken. They are lured in through free travel and drug treatment, combined with the fact that it's a place of business and leisure, full of shoppers and other consumers who are prime begging/robbing targets.

We need to get real about this. The shops will change when the appropriate clientele feel comfortable having a nice and leisurely consumer experience in the area. At the moment, this is an extremely distant thought. I mean, would you sit out and have a coffee at the side of O'Connell st?

Calling somebody "scum" while they are in treatment .. are you serious ?

[Jackass]

mattjack wrote: »

Apart from the "bleeding obvious " with the GPO there is some great history in and around O Connell Street , there's still an original house there pre 1916 , do you know where the last resident lived in the Street .. up until quite recently ? you have of course seen the architecture in North Great Georges Street and have you ever seen the "Basin" ?
Everybody knows what unique about O Connell Bridge , right ?

Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely nothing to do with North side people or saying it's horrible for the sake of it. I know the Northside inner city like the back of my hand, in fact, I went to school right beside North Great Georges street and my girlfriend used to live in an apartment by the basin.

The funny thing is there are beautiful buildings there that remain absolute slums, broken up into bedsits and not maintained at all, whereas the equivalent around Merrion Square on the southside are beautifully maintained and contain offices etc.

If anything, my opinion is based on having spent a vast chunk of my life being around the streets of the north inner city almost every day for well over a decade.

The only thing I don't know from your list is where the last resident lived! But might be hidden in my brain if I was to hear it.

People are getting a little defensive. Like I said, it's absolutely NOTHING to do with people from the north inner city, it's to do with the types of people who congregate around that part of the city.

No different than saying all the D4 kids congregate around the McDonalds on Grafton St., who are kind of annoying, if completely harmless, although none I would imagine are from the area.

The north inner city is just a really run down place. Especially compared to south inner city imho.

I mean, we can't have anything nice. The boardwalk was a superb initiative in theory, but became a blackspot for drug dealing and a good place for the homeless / junkies / wineos to have a nap / pass out.

The redevelopment of the streets serviced by the Luas are still full of junkies going up and down without paying and giving a nice view of "hidden" Dublin to the tourists. Ironically servicing the methadone clinics, the heroin capital of Dublin (around O'Connell street / boardwalks) and the feckin courts. Perfect storm.

Some parts are lovely, like the Italian quarter and further down the quays around the financial district, behind citi bank and around National College of Ireland. Around the IFSC is nice too (not the Connelly / O'Connell Street end).

I just don't see why they can't clean up the very central part, around O'Connell street and the offshoot streets along it, which are horrible and full of not so civilised people...

Regarding my comment about make it like Grafton Street, is to make it more like a high street. Like chanselise or 5th Avenue. A national thoroughfare to be proud of and to be a focal point for tourism and a place that shows Dublin and Ireland in the most positive light. At the moment, it's the complete opposite.

MadYaker

Every time I have the misfortune of being in our capital it strikes me how much of a hole Dublin is.

mattjack

mattjack wrote: »

Calling somebody "scum" while they are in treatment .. are you serious ?

Oh get over it. I'm sure there's plenty of people milling around the city who you'd never even know were in drug treatment. I'm hardly talking about these people.

You know who I'm talking about, so take your faux outrage elsewhere

SimonLynch

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Changing the businesses that exist on O' Connell st. will do absolutely NOTHING towards fixing the problem, which is the people. I can only think of two solutions off-hand:

1 - price unsavory characters out of the city centre. No more free bus passes, no more reasons for them to be in the city centre - move treatment centres out of the central part of Dublin City. All council flats etc need to be moved out of the city.

2 - Give guards the authority and mission of breaking up and moving on any collection of unsavory characters that happens to gather. Outside any convenience store on the Northside of the city you're sure to see groups of dodgy people handing each other things, shouting/making everyone else uncomfortable, and the odd time fighting amongst each other. If someone is intoxicated, arrest them and throw them in a cell for the evening as a matter of urgency.


The scum aren't in town buying chips from the chippers on O'Connell st, and if you think that it's the low quality food that's luring them into the city then you are most definitely mistaken. They are lured in through free travel and drug treatment, combined with the fact that it's a place of business and leisure, full of shoppers and other consumers who are prime begging/robbing targets.

We need to get real about this. The shops will change when the appropriate clientele feel comfortable having a nice and leisurely consumer experience in the area. At the moment, this is an extremely distant thought. I mean, would you sit out and have a coffee at the side of O'Connell st?

Are you serious or just looking for a reaction? What ghetto would you move the residents to?

mattjack

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Oh get over it. I'm sure there's plenty of people milling around the city who you'd never even know were in drug treatment. I'm hardly talking about these people.

You know who I'm talking about, so take your faux outrage elsewhere

Outrage , I'll tell you what , champ , I work in a drug service ... have friends and family in recovery and have buried a few .... so maybe my outrage might not be so faux , but you'll comeback with another witty remark , won't ya ? taking away from the fact you called people in treatment "scum" ... my family and friends

SimonLynch

SimonLynch wrote: »

Are you serious or just looking for a reaction? What ghetto would you move the residents to?

Have you seen the state of some of these places? Could they possibly be moved anywhere worse?

&Mattjack, try not take it to heart. It's this kind of heartstring nonsense that has us where we are today.

January

mattjack wrote: »

Outrage , I'll tell you what , champ , I work in a drug service ... have friends and family in recovery and have buried a few .... so maybe my outrage might not be so faux , but you'll comeback with another witty remark , won't ya ? taking away from the fact you called people in treatment "scum" ... my family and friends

mattjack - If you have a problem with a post report it rather than retaliating on thread.

Rojomcdojo - a bit more tact might be considered when you are posting. Addicts are people too and while some might be unsavoury, not all are.

SimonLynch

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Have you seen the state of some of these places? Could they possibly be moved anywhere worse?

So it's your aesthetics and not the people who live there?

[Jackass]

In fairness to Rojomcdojo, whilst he may not sugar coat what he says, the inner city flats being where they are is kind of madness in the first place. I can't think of any other city in the world that gives absolutely prime real estate, some of the best locations in the city, to social housing.

I used to work with a fella who had bought an apartment around Grand Canal area. He had paid about 300k for the apartment and himself and his girlfriend had saved for the guts of a decade to afford it and would spend the next 30 years of their life using the skills they obtained by spending most of their youth in schooling and university to work their arses off to afford it.

Basically they spend every weekday since being a toddler on getting an education and then working and paying taxes.

No more than a 6 minute stroll from his apartment were inner city flats. We used to walk by them each day on lunch, when it dawned on him one sunny summers day, that these flats are closer to town than his, and every dole collection day or every sunny day, he sees the same fellas sitting outside drinking cans each day, the corpo spent months there doing up the place, cleaning the windows, painting, and the lads out playing football, smoking and drinking all day - whilst he's working his hole off and signed away the next 30 years of his life to have the same as them, and will slave to pay for it, and they have the life of Reilly sitting out there for next to nothing, some probably having never worked a day in their life, and my buddy paying a management fee of a few thousand a year on top of it, and good luck seeing them come out and clean your windows, trim the grass and paint the gates.

Really put it in perspective. Only fools and horses.

There's a lot to be said for reclaiming those bits of land and using them for business usage, as it's weird having social housing right in the middle of the financial centre of the entire country, and beside 300k apartments, and you wouldn't see that anywhere else in the world.

But that's Dublin city planning for you, I wont get started on that.

January

January wrote: »

mattjack - If you have a problem with a post report it rather than retaliating on thread.

Rojomcdojo - a bit more tact might be considered when you are posting. Addicts are people too and while some might be unsavoury, not all are.

I've already tried to clarify this point above. Also I'd like to point out - I'm in no way attributing all of the trouble on the Northside of the City to addicts. Like I said a few posts up - Alcohol fuels much of the anti-social behaviour in the City, probably more than all of the heroin addicts combined.

We know what I mean when I say "unsavory character", don't we? I'm hardly the first person to mention the phrase in this thread. I'd like to at least assume that we have some understanding of where everyone stands if the conversation is to continue.

January

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I've already tried to clarify this point above. Also I'd like to point out - I'm in no way attributing all of the trouble on the Northside of the City to addicts. Like I said a few posts up - Alcohol fuels much of the anti-social behaviour in the City, probably more than all of the heroin addicts combined.

We know what I mean when I say "unsavory character", don't we? I'm hardly the first person to mention the phrase in this thread. I'd like to at least assume that we have some understanding of where everyone stands if the conversation is to continue.

"Unsavoury character" and "scumbag" are on opposite ends of the description scale. Scumbag is used to offend. We're talking about O'Connell St, not the whole of the inner city, so stay on topic. Don't argue on thread with a mod, it's against the charter.

January

January wrote: »

"Unsavoury character" and "scumbag" are on opposite ends of the description scale. Scumbag is used to offend. We're talking about O'Connell St, not the whole of the inner city, so stay on topic. Don't argue on thread with a mod, it's against the charter.

Duly noted!

starviewadams

[Jackass] wrote: »

In fairness to Rojomcdojo, whilst he may not sugar coat what he says, the inner city flats being where they are is kind of madness in the first place. I can't think of any other city in the world that gives absolutely prime real estate, some of the best locations in the city, to social housing.

I used to work with a fella who had bought an apartment around Grand Canal area. He had paid about 300k for the apartment and himself and his girlfriend had saved for the guts of a decade to afford it and would spend the next 30 years of their life using the skills they obtained by spending most of their youth in schooling and university to work their arses off to afford it.

Basically they spend every weekday since being a toddler on getting an education and then working and paying taxes.

No more than a 6 minute stroll from his apartment were inner city flats. We used to walk by them each day on lunch, when it dawned on him one sunny summers day, that these flats are closer to town than his, and every dole collection day or every sunny day, he sees the same fellas sitting outside drinking cans each day, the corpo spent months there doing up the place, cleaning the windows, painting, and the lads out playing football, smoking and drinking all day - whilst he's working his hole off and signed away the next 30 years of his life to have the same as them, and will slave to pay for it, and they have the life of Reilly sitting out there for next to nothing, some probably having never worked a day in their life, and my buddy paying a management fee of a few thousand a year on top of it, and good luck seeing them come out and clean your windows, trim the grass and paint the gates.

Really put it in perspective. Only fools and horses.

There's a lot to be said for reclaiming those bits of land and using them for business usage, as it's weird having social housing right in the middle of the financial centre of the entire country, and beside 300k apartments, and you wouldn't see that anywhere else in the world.

But that's Dublin city planning for you, I wont get started on that.

Nobody forced him to pay €300k for his flat,and he obviously didn't do much research before buying it if he only realised there was a social housing complex near him and closer to the city a few weeks later.

Why should social housing not be in the city centre/inner city?if anything we should have much higher density social housing in these areas,as it would make far more sense then the urban sprawl mess we have now which makes people dependent on cars,causes gridlock and makes it near impossible to run an efficient public transport system.

Generations of families have lived in these areas,some going back to the tenement days,why should their familys history and roots be trampled upon just because they are poor?

Social housing isn't causing the problems in the city.It's the lip service addiction and homeless services run by the HSE,under-resourced and dis-interested policing by Gardai and and an ineffectual and not fit for purpose courts system.

But these are complicated problems,and ones which would take some political will to attempt to solve,so it's just far easier to ignore them and blame scumbags etc.The Irish way in other words.

mattjack

starviewadams wrote: »

Social housing isn't causing the problems in the city.It's the lip service addiction and homeless services run by the HSE,under-resourced and dis-interested policing by Gardai and and an ineffectual and not fit for purpose courts system.

But these are complicated problems,and ones which would take some political will to attempt to solve,so it's just far easier to ignore them and blame scumbags etc.The Irish way in other words.

Great comments.

Pepe LeFrits

starviewadams wrote: »

Generations of families have lived in these areas,some going back to the tenement days,why should their familys history and roots be trampled upon just because they are poor?

Jaysus I wish you'd been ruling the country in the 90s when my folks had to sell the family gaff due to financial difficulties, sure I didn't realise my roots and history were being trampled on!

I could be tempted to go for a few free lunches now myself; they better be serving tenderloin though.

liffeylite

I think a lot of people on here are making very valid points. Everyone has their own view of the causes of the situation, but I think we are all in agreement that there IS a situation and that it DOES need to be dealt with.

There is no doubt that walking around the south inner city, from merrion square, Stephens Green, the streets around Grafton St, Trinity college etc, is beautiful. On a summers night this part of the city centre looks fantastic and you can see why so many tourists love the place.

Wouldn't it be great if the north inner city could have this same air. it can be done. it has the Georgian buildings and the grandness of O'connell Street in its favour. The boardwalk as mentioned is a lovely addition to the area.

Personally, I would love to see the stretch of the quays from Grattan bridge down to the new Marlborough street bridge pedestrianized and the whole stretch of road gentrified, perhaps playing host to local street markets and a new civic space.

if the area was cleaned up of the problems it faces, regardless of the causes of those problems, the whole city centre could look absolutely fantastic. it is achievable!

latenia

Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned slum clearance-it worked well from the 30s to the 50s when people were moved out to places like Crumlin and Marino and were delighted with their new accommodation. The majority of the cant about working class areas-great community spirit, salt of the earth people etc is just sentimental bollocks. There should be new improved social housing in the centre but the ratio to privately owned accommodation should be no higher than 20%.

Dyr

See the ould class cleansers are out in force again.

EyeSight

Just saw 2 junkies try to fight a tourist with his girlfriend on the corner by clearys. Bet they won't be rushing back to Dublin anytime soon...

Tom_Cruise

What a scummy city it can be at times . The few occasions a year that i do visit Dublin each year, just seem to get worse and worse. I used to love Dublin and still do to some degree, but is there nothing they can do about all the junkies? Maybe there is nothing that can be done - this is the way its going to be from now on.

du Maurier

What's with the acceptance of that gang of winos/junkies that sit by that said doughnut shop/newspaper kiosk? Always there, at least 5 plus at any given time, making the place their own. I don't get it.

January

Keep it on topic or I'm closing the thread.

alphamule

du Maurier wrote: »

What's with the acceptance of that gang of winos/junkies that sit by that said doughnut shop/newspaper kiosk? Always there, at least 5 plus at any given time, making the place their own. I don't get it.

That would require the police doing their job.

Mr Simpson

alphamule wrote: »

That would require the police doing their job.

They do the best they can, giventheir resources. Also, a crime has to be comitted for an arrest to be made. The lads and lassies in store street do a very good job, with absolutely no thanks