The State of O'Connell St

The Hill Billy

alphamule - banned for a week for breach of forum charter.

Many other off-topic posts deleted.

Any further off-topic or uncivil posts or breaches of the forum charter will result in a two-week ban.

tHB

FreudianSlippers

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying there should be no social housing, but rather there shouldn't be social housing blocks which are effective ghettos in themselves.

If the government allowed those flats to he knocked and developed into mixed use mid-rise residential and allocated a certain percentage to social housing, the benefits to all are extraordinary (including those in the social housing). This has been a huge success in places like Portland and Vancouver BC

Dyr

Ballymun, Tallaght, Clondalkin. Ireland has no problem with ghetto's so long as they're kept away from the city centre

Mixed social housing is tokenism. Roll in, shift the natives, take the prime land and throw a few corpo units in to pretend it was in the locals best interest.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Ballymun, Tallaght, Clondalkin. Ireland has no problem with ghetto's so long as they're kept away from the city centre

Mixed social housing is tokenism. Roll in, shift the natives, take the prime land and throw a few corpo units in to pretend it was in the locals best interest.

So you're a fan of the flats in town then? Someone mentioned above that "generations of families" have lived in places like this without even a hint of irony at the thought of generations of families having come through free schooling and various social schemes and being unable to arrive at a point at which they can muster up a month's rent.

There are no valid reasons for blocks of flats in town, if anything - surely it's a worse environment to bring up a kid than a suburb? Or do you disagree?

Would love to hear your thoughts on these questions.

mattjack

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So you're a fan of the flats in town then? Someone mentioned above that "generations of families" have lived in places like this without even a hint of irony at the thought of generations of families having come through free schooling and various social schemes and being unable to arrive at a point at which they can muster up a month's rent.

There are no valid reasons for blocks of flats in town, if anything - surely it's a worse environment to bring up a kid than a suburb? Or do you disagree?

Would love to hear your thoughts on these questions.

The flats in O Connell street ?

markpb

Bambi wrote: »

Ballymun, Tallaght, Clondalkin. Ireland has no problem with ghetto's so long as they're kept away from the city centre

The city centre is more important to Dublin and Ireland than most people realise. It's where tourists will spend most of their time and money, it's where most multi-nationals will setup their offices and hire their staff, it's where a big chunk of the people in Dublin go to socialise. It generates massive amounts of revenue for the city and state so it's in all our interests to keep it as attractive as possible. If ghettos are threatening that, the problems causing them should be fixed.

Mixed social housing is tokenism. Roll in, shift the natives, take the prime land and throw a few corpo units in to pretend it was in the locals best interest.

I presume you're not aware of the good reasons why mixed use developments are a legal requirement? Council housing estates likes the ones in the city centre and in (old) Ballymun create the very problem you alluded to earlier - they create an environment where there is no incentive for people to do well and try to leave. In some cases, young people face massive resistance and social exclusion if they try to educate themselves and buy their own home.

Totally Tropical

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

What a scummy city it can be at times . The few occasions a year that i do visit Dublin each year, just seem to get worse and worse. I used to love Dublin and still do to some degree, but is there nothing they can do about all the junkies? Maybe there is nothing that can be done - this is the way its going to be from now on.

Is it only recently that things have spiraled out of control?I mean junkies have been in Dublin for years but i remember say about 10 years ago that they weren't as noticeable in certain parts of the city centre as they are now.

reprazant

The flats have been in the inner city since when nobody wanted to live in the inner city. Many of same families that lived in the slums moved into these flats. Whether that is a good thing or not, I do not know. I do think it interesting though that that now that middle class people want to live in the city centre again, it seems that it is time to move the flats away from the city centre. I can only think of one city where this has been done, which is Paris and that has been a notable failure since projects are now just huge ghettoes.

Is that what people want? Huge ghettos in some crappy suburb, far enough away that can't see them? And do you think that will get rid of the 'scum'? a mentally insulting idea to being with.

Dyr

markpb wrote: »

The city centre is more important to Dublin and Ireland than most people realise. It's where tourists will spend most of their time and money, it's where most multi-nationals will setup their offices and hire their staff, it's where a big chunk of the people in Dublin go to socialise. It generates massive amounts of revenue for the city and state so it's in all our interests to keep it as attractive as possible. If ghettos are threatening that, the problems causing them should be fixed.

Except in the interests of those pesky inner city natives that you want to shift out to reservations rather than actually address the social issues

markpb

Bambi wrote: »

Except in the interests of those pesky inner city natives that you want to shift out to reservations rather than actually address the social issues

Where did I say that?

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Except in the interests of those pesky inner city natives that you want to shift out to reservations rather than actually address the social issues

Are you trying to imply that the plight of those who dwell in inner city social housing is one and the same with the plight of the native american in the 19th and 20th centuries? For real?

Do you actually believe that their quality of life would suffer through a move to the suburbs?

FreudianSlippers

I would also dare say that a large chunk of those living in the council flats off and around OCS aren't "natives" of that area and may be just as happy/happier living in a more suburban setting or elsewhere in the city. I would imagine that with mixed developments in the place of the current dumps (which I note are half empty/abandoned, not fit for use and do not utilise the land well) we could easily keep most if not all of the people in the city centre that are "historically" from there or wish to stay in the city centre.

Concentrating on the flats off OCS, they are about 40-50% boarded up. Surely mixed use developments are better than that?!

Ole Rodrigo

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I would also dare say that a large chunk of those living in the council flats off and around OCS aren't "natives" of that area and may be just as happy/happier living in a more suburban setting or elsewhere in the city. I would imagine that with mixed developments in the place of the current dumps (which I note are half empty/abandoned, not fit for use and do not utilise the land well) we could easily keep most if not all of the people in the city centre that are "historically" from there or wish to stay in the city centre.

Concentrating on the flats off OCS, they are about 40-50% boarded up. Surely mixed use developments are better than that?!

There are plans for mixed use development along Dominick street, if they are the ones you are referring to. Construction is underway. The current buildings will be replaced by mixed council and affordable housing with commercial spaces at the ground level.

This is the most sensible option IMO when it comes to the issue of inner city housing and the CC. It also makes for an attractive community where everyone from different backgrounds can live and interact together. I think this policy benefits all by preventing the development of ghettos but shouldn't be confused with antisocial behaviour and unsavoury characters.

2cool4school

seen two dirtbags laying into each other near that bus stop opposite the jesus and mary shop today. dont think they were junkies to be fair but obviously low lives to be fighting in the street like that near tourists and children.

funny thing was they were both calling the other one "knacker"! they just dont get it. serious bust up with full on punching at around quarter to 5. both guys were bleeding after it. went on for a minute or so. anyone else see it? disgusting to say the least. cant believe some of the stuff i see going on down there.

John_Rambo

2cool4school wrote: »

seen two dirtbags laying into each other near that bus stop opposite the jesus and mary shop today

That was Jesus and Mary. It wasn't all mangers, donkeys, preaching to the Jews in the temple, cleansing lepers, and turning water to wine.

I blame that Magdalene one, she was a terrible influence on him when he was so young.

January

John_Rambo wrote: »

That was Jesus and Mary. It wasn't all mangers, donkeys, preaching to the Jews in the temple, cleansing lepers, and turning water to wine.

I blame that Magdalene one, she was a terrible influence on him when he was so young.

Keep on-topic.

John_Rambo

January wrote: »

Keep on-topic.

Sorry.

It's terrible. Awful situation.

RMD

alphamule wrote: »

That would require the police doing their job.

Problem isn't the police, it's an inefficient justice system and a lack of prison space. Hypothetically they arrest Mr. Junkie for drug possession for personal use. They have to then get a van brought out to bring him to the station, where he'll remain for a few hours while they process his arrest and provide a court date for his hearing etc. Mr Junkie is then back on the streets afterwords as no drug user will be held on remand, most likely go looking straight for his dealer and not give the slightest **** about his court hearing, more than probable he wont even show up for it. If he does, it'll be a slap on the wrist and / or suspended sentence as there's not enough space to store him.

It's pretty useless wrapping up garda resources for something which wont be adequately dealt with and taking them off the street for several hours when instead they can attempt to capture criminals who commit crimes which will actually be dealt with by the justice system.

SimonTemplar

I'm just about to fly home from Boston after being there for 4 days. I usually pass through Abbey St / O'Connell St about 4-5 times a week and I have been following this thread since the beginning. Obviously a visitor sees a city in a different perspective to a resident, but I was specifically looking out for similar behavior to that which I've seen plaguing O'Connell St to try to compare and contrast.

Obviously I saw drunks and undesirables; and they were more loudly vocal at shouting insults to members of the general public than their Dublin counterparts.

The crucial point however was that these people didn't define the character of an area in the same way as the undesirables in Abbey / O'Connell St do. It was unfortunate to see them but that is an inescapable part of being in a big city. However, I certainly didn't see anything like the collection of drugged up zombies that are highly visible in Dublin and therefore drag down the quality of the area.

Also, I was strolling around Faneuil market. For anyone who doesn't know Boston, it is basically a large open air mall near the seafront. It occurred to me that if we had something similar in Dublin, it would probably end up being dominated by drunks / drug addicts.

reprazant

Really? By that rational, every open space in Dublin should be dominated by drunks / drug addicts.

FreudianSlippers

reprazant wrote: »

Really? By that rational, every open space in Dublin should be dominated by drunks / drug addicts.

Can you think of any on the Northside that aren't?

*Not picking on the Northside (I am a Northsider and I just want to see it be better), but as this is an OCS thread it's hardly fair to cite a Southside example.

maximoose

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Can you think of any on the Northside that aren't?

On Saturday I was walking from Phibsboro to O'Connell street and went through the Blessington Basin cuz you know, ducks are class. Sitting at one of the benches were two junkies (one is a young 18ish looking lad who is a regular around Phibs), casually as can be, injecting into their toes.

As it happens there was a guard at the corner of Blessington/Berkeley Street chatting to some fella, so we let him know and he made his way into the basin. Would love to know if they were just shooed on or not.

reprazant

Phoenix park, IFSC, the boardwalk* from Sean O Casey bridge down towards the Point (* not sure what you call it, the walk?). There a lack of open spaces on the northside really. The southside has a lot more with toss all drunks/junkies around the place.

I'd nearly thrown in Smithfield plaza as that is for the most part grand. The only real hassle there is from the kids around the place.

Leroy42

RMD wrote: »

Problem isn't the police, it's an inefficient justice system and a lack of prison space. Hypothetically they arrest Mr. Junkie for drug possession for personal use. They have to then get a van brought out to bring him to the station, where he'll remain for a few hours while they process his arrest and provide a court date for his hearing etc. Mr Junkie is then back on the streets afterwords as no drug user will be held on remand, most likely go looking straight for his dealer and not give the slightest **** about his court hearing, more than probable he wont even show up for it. If he does, it'll be a slap on the wrist and / or suspended sentence as there's not enough space to store him.

It's pretty useless wrapping up garda resources for something which wont be adequately dealt with and taking them off the street for several hours when instead they can attempt to capture criminals who commit crimes which will actually be dealt with by the justice system.

But that is exactly the attitude that has led to this. By letting these 'small' crimes go, for whatever reason, they then become the norm. It seems to me that very few of the drunks/druggies are even remotely worried about the police. Come down hard on them on see the difference it makes. Sure they will just go underground/stay indoors but surely that is better than the current situation whereby basically these types are taking over certain sections of the city.

FreudianSlippers

reprazant wrote: »

Phoenix park, IFSC, the boardwalk* from Sean O Casey bridge down towards the Point (* not sure what you call it, the walk?). There a lack of open spaces on the northside really. The southside has a lot more with toss all drunks/junkies around the place.

I'd nearly thrown in Smithfield plaza as that is for the most part grand. The only real hassle there is from the kids around the place.

The only place I would agree isn't filled with junkies, drunks or otherwise antisocial behaviour is the Phoenix Park (I mean unless there is SHM concert on...)

reprazant

I guess it would depend on how you define drunks or otherwise antisocial behaviour.

The whole of the city is full of drunk people and/or anti social behaviour after a certain time of the day depending on how you view drunk/anti-social behaviour.

I am regularity on the quays around the IFSC north and southside and there is barely every anything happening.

TheBandicoot

More press on the problem:
http://www.herald.ie/news/i-shut-ice-cream-parlour-over-attacks-on-staff-29336899.html

How much longer until the authorities start dealing with this problem? It is becoming a serious issue across the city centre.

starviewadams

If that place was profitable it wouldn't have been closed,bottom line.

Not saying the stuff mentioned in the article isn't serious,but it's a convenient way to save face for the owners.

Lelantos

starviewadams wrote: »

If that place was profitable it wouldn't have been closed,bottom line.

Not saying the stuff mentioned in the article isn't serious,but it's a convenient way to save face for the owners.

Chances are it was profitable, but hiring of security staff may have pushed it over the age in these harsh times.

arybvtcw0eolkf

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The only place I would agree isn't filled with junkies, drunks or otherwise antisocial behaviour is the Phoenix Park (I mean unless there is SHM concert on...)

Try the area around the Infirmary Road play ground and the grassy hill overlooking it and the pond, its crawling with addicts with open dealing at the park gates at the NCR and within sight of Garda HQ.