The State of O'Connell St

Anto McC

I want my city back.

Walking home from work past City Quay church and I see a junkie holding a small guy is a suit by the scruff of his neck. Not sure if he was robbing him but the guy in the suit is clearly distressed so I intervene tell the junkie to leave him alone. He ignores me and starts back at the guy, so I step between them and tell the guy in the suit to go which he does.

Now the junkie is at me, asking me "do I think I'm a big man" and that he's "not afraid of me". I just keep walking past him and telling him to "*#@% off.

Now my fear is not him, but if I do floor him and he cracks his skull open that I'll be locked up despite my good intentions.

He eventually threw a dig at me which I blocked (which nearly made him fall) and at this point it's taking everything in my power not to lay into him so I had to run away.

I'm 6'4" and not a skinny guy. He was 6' at most and I've no doubts I could've done serious damage to him but then I'd end up with a criminal record.

It's not fair, I want my city back

liffeylite

Anto McC wrote: »

I want my city back.

Walking home from work past City Quay church and I see a junkie holding a small guy is a suit by the scruff of his neck. Not sure if he was robbing him but the guy in the suit is clearly distressed so I intervene tell the junkie to leave him alone. He ignores me and starts back at the guy, so I step between them and tell the guy in the suit to go which he does.

Now the junkie is at me, asking me "do I think I'm a big man" and that he's "not afraid of me". I just keep walking past him and telling him to "*#@% off.

Now my fear is not him, but if I do floor him and he cracks his skull open that I'll be locked up despite my good intentions.

He eventually threw a dig at me which I blocked (which nearly made him fall) and at this point it's taking everything in my power not to lay into him so I had to run away.

I'm 6'4" and not a skinny guy. He was 6' at most and I've no doubts I could've done serious damage to him but then I'd end up with a criminal record.

It's not fair, I want my city back

well done for intervening. did you report it to the guards? he assaulted you technically.

once again, its another incident emerging from the same problem. it wouldn't happen in any other city. move the treatment centres and reclaim the city centre for law abiding citizens who will actually improve it.

Dyr

liffeylite wrote: »

well done for intervening. did you report it to the guards? he assaulted you technically.

once again, its another incident emerging from the same problem. it wouldn't happen in any other city. move the treatment centres and reclaim the city centre for law abiding citizens who will actually improve it.

Where ya moving them to again?

EyeSight

Bambi wrote: »

Where ya moving them to again?

hopefully a fiery pit.

obviously the OP doesn't have locations picked out, im sure the government has some think tank that could research this. not that they care enough to

gurramok

Move them to surburban health centres where the junkies live. The authorities know where the vast majority of addicts live.

Perhaps set up mobile clinics to dish out methadone if the NIMBY's are not happy?

mattjack

gurramok wrote: »

Move them to surburban health centres where the junkies live. The authorities know where the vast majority of addicts live.

Perhaps set up mobile clinics to dish out methadone if the NIMBY's are not happy?

Like chemists in the area they are from ? or maybe clinics .We could have one called Wellmount and have it in Finglas and maybe have another in Curlew road in Drimnagh .How bout the HSE run them ?

shroom007

as someone who works and lives in Dublin 1, all I can say its a **** hole.
on the way to work this morning was treated to the sight of some skank clearing his nostrils in the middle of the pavement, had to step over some creature that was so inbred he was his own father,and when headin home the usual gang of theiving roma scanning for prey.
O'Connell st is horrible and the scum who hang around there are already spitting out the next generation.
Since the boardwalk has been closed while they build the luas bridge these cockroaches have spread out a bit.
there is a futility to anything the guards do, when there are no places in the prison system or the middle class senile judge buys the poverty defense bull**** their solicitors vomit up in court, same ole same ole
put the metadone clinics in foxrock dundrum for a laught

Dyr

gurramok wrote: »

Move them to surburban health centres where the junkies live. The authorities know where the vast majority of addicts live.

Perhaps set up mobile clinics to dish out methadone if the NIMBY's are not happy?

And if these junkies live in the city centre?

kinda funny that you're bringing up the term NIMBY when moving the brass monkeys out of town is NIMBYism at its finest

AsianDub

Hopefully the supervised injection rooms (or whatever they're called) will reduce the number of addicts on the streets and hopefully they won't all be concentrated in D1. I am trying to be tolerant of the whole situation (I work in D1, eat regularly in D1) but I am growing tired of them. As Anto McC said I want my city back. I want to enjoy both sides of the Liffey and want to end the boring cliche of a divided city.

gurramok

mattjack wrote: »

Like chemists in the area they are from ? or maybe clinics .We could have one called Wellmount and have it in Finglas and maybe have another in Curlew road in Drimnagh .How bout the HSE run them ?

Years ago, they did have one in one of the health centres in Finglas West.

Bambi wrote: »

And if these junkies live in the city centre?

kinda funny that you're bringing up the term NIMBY when moving the brass monkeys out of town is NIMBYism at its finest

Junkies live in alot of places, yes have the clinics in the inner city and have clinics in suburbs whether in Foxrock or Castlenock. Have the clinics wherever they live, thing is the NIMBYS will not let it happen.

The idea will go a long way to improving OCS and Marlborough st if it did happen.

markpb

Bambi wrote: »

Where ya moving them to again?

It must be fun sitting on the fence making comments that contribute very little to a thread. Do you have any suggestions about how to fix the problem or do you think there's no problem and we're all horribly intolerant?

liffeylite

AsianDub wrote: »

Hopefully the supervised injection rooms (or whatever they're called) will reduce the number of addicts on the streets and hopefully they won't all be concentrated in D1. I am trying to be tolerant of the whole situation (I work in D1, eat regularly in D1) but I am growing tired of them. As Anto McC said I want my city back. I want to enjoy both sides of the Liffey and want to end the boring cliche of a divided city.

What are these injection rooms and where are they due to be located?

I understand the point about moving the treatment centres is just moving the problem, but the issue is that they are too centralised. if you are going to have 20 treatment centres in the city, they should be spread out physically. putting 9 of them in the north inner city/city centre is a ridiculous idea in that A) it centralises your centres, meaning that more addicts will congregate in one place if you are going to do this, do not do it slap bang in the middle of the city centre, the place with the highest footfall in the country( during the boom henry street had the highest footfall of any hopping street in Europe and was busier than Times Square), the hub of where locals and tourists alike enjoy the city and where so many businesses are located.

There can be no positive benefit for the govt and councils to leave them where they are. The congregation of junkies makes people feel unsafe, discourages tourists from coming to Dublin, discourages irish residents from crossing the liffey to go shopping etc, starves the economical growth of the north city centre through a combination of the reasons mentioned.

Someone mentioned using health centres in residential areas to provide the treatment. I think this I a fantastic idea and is surely what most other cities and towns do in other countries.

Thee people are human beings like the rest of us and they deserve our help. But the situation is out of hand and to me, is the single biggest negative facing Dublin today. The sad thing is, it could be resolved through proper planning and a little foresight. The net benefit to everyone would be massive.

Ole Rodrigo

The only solution I think is to take a firm stand. One of the previous posters mentioned how welfare works in Austria - you're given a year at close to your previous income, retraining is mandatory if you cant find work in that time, and you will be given a job in that event. Its a dignified way of treating people that prevents the intractable personal and social problems of long term unemployment.
Thats a firm but fair stance taken with ordinary people. I wonder why something similar cant be done with junkies ? Forced rehabilitation or something. I'm sure its more complicated than that but I also suspect there is an element of hand wringing too. Human rights and liberties should be protected but your obligation as a citizen is just as important, or else you cant really say you live in a civilised society.

I also live in D1 and have given up walking around the area, I take my bicycle everywhere now. I feel sorry for anyone who has to work around Talbot Street / Marlborough street. Its also embarrassing to see poverty tourism, people coming to Dublin to see a place on the fringes of Western Europe with such a public health and social welfare failure.

I went to see World War Z last night, and I half joked about it in another post but its exactly like a swarm of zombies in the city centre at times.

mattjack

gurramok wrote: »

Years ago, they did have one in one of the health centres in Finglas West.



There's two in Finglas.

When we talking about moving treatment centres out of the city centre , are we moving everything associated with addiction ?

In Dublin city for addiction there's a wide variety of services provided , moving them all would be impractical.

To give you an example of what's provided , if you relate addiction ,homelessness and mental health , in Dublin we have state methadone provision ,homeless mental service , alcohol detox , methadone detox , homeless hostels , respite for homeless HIV ,various drop in centres and medical services so its not quite as simple as moving them out of the city.

When someone in Ireland looks for treatment , often the first step is the MMT, from there to get drug free the next step is a detox either medical or therapeutic , depending on where you go there could be up to two years of after care.
Some addicts often need stabilisation to get from MMT to detox and drug free support after detox that may include CE and housing and a lot of these services are in the city.

I'll give some food for thought regarding imprisonment and forced rehab and MMT , in Ireland it costs about 2000 euros a year to maintain someone on methadone , imprisoning someone costs a minimum of 65000 euro a year.

I work in a drug service in Dublin city and my education is along that line too and I have had quite a deaths in my own family, I'm happy to engage here but I've been called a "bleeding heart liberal" , clueless and I've had a clown tell me how many heroin addicts there are in the city even after I explained where I work.

mattjack

mattjack wrote: »

When someone in Ireland looks for treatment , often the first step is the MMT, from there to get drug free the next step is a detox either medical or therapeutic , depending on where you go there could be up to two years of after care.
Some addicts often need stabilisation to get from MMT to detox and drug free support after detox that may include CE and housing and a lot of these services are in the city.

I'll give some food for thought regarding imprisonment and forced rehab and MMT , in Ireland it costs about 2000 euros a year to maintain someone on methadone , imprisoning someone costs a minimum of 65000 euro a year.

I work in a drug service in Dublin city and my education is along that line too and I have had quite a deaths in my own family, I'm happy to engage here but I've been called a "bleeding heart liberal" , clueless and I've had a clown tell me how many heroin addicts there are in the city even after I explained where I work.

I would call you a vested interest before I would call you a bleeding heart liberal, to be fair. Drug addicts are your bread and butter, of course more treatment will be your answer..

mattjack

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I would call you a vested interest before I would call you a bleeding heart liberal, to be fair. Drug addicts are your bread and butter, of course more treatment will be your answer..

Better treatment , not necessarily more treatment.

latenia

donvito99 wrote: »

Respectfully disagree. You are more likely to be in better company (tourists, shopkeepers, Corpo men, Guards) in Temple Bar than you are on Eden Quay, Marlborough St, Abbey St Lower, Sackville Place. Although I was once generously assisted by a DB driver walking down Eden Q when I was interrupted by a down-and-out.

There's a dissonance amongst the public as to the true level of threat here. Most dangerous = most likely place in which to become a victim of crime, and in Dublin that is in Temple Bar (which btw is swarming with as many junkies as any place in the city, on top of all the other dangers I mentioned.) 10 hardcore junkies yowling at each other and buying valium at the news stand on the Abbey/O'Connell junction looks awful but I'd be more worried about the single junky in a relatively together condition wandering through crowds looking for easy victims.

BTW what's the success rate for methadone treatment? I'd love to know what genius thought treating opiate addiction by prescribing more opiates was a good idea.

mattjack

latenia wrote: »

There's a dissonance amongst the public as to the true level of threat here. Most dangerous = most likely place in which to become a victim of crime, and in Dublin that is in Temple Bar (which btw is swarming with as many junkies as any place in the city, on top of all the other dangers I mentioned.) 10 hardcore junkies yowling at each other and buying valium at the news stand on the Abbey/O'Connell junction looks awful but I'd be more worried about the single junky in a relatively together condition wandering through crowds looking for easy victims.

BTW what's the success rate for methadone treatment? I'd love to know what genius thought treating opiate addiction by prescribing more opiates was a good idea.

That's the big one , I don't what the success rate is.
Originally brought in to stabilise and stop people using heroin without any real thought about detoxing people off it.
You need to on about 30 or mls before detox with most places .... and its now called liquid handcuffs by some addicts.

An Claidheamh

Anto McC wrote: »

I want my city back.

Walking home from work past City Quay church and I see a junkie holding a small guy is a suit by the scruff of his neck. Not sure if he was robbing him but the guy in the suit is clearly distressed so I intervene tell the junkie to leave him alone. He ignores me and starts back at the guy, so I step between them and tell the guy in the suit to go which he does.

Now the junkie is at me, asking me "do I think I'm a big man" and that he's "not afraid of me". I just keep walking past him and telling him to "*#@% off.

Now my fear is not him, but if I do floor him and he cracks his skull open that I'll be locked up despite my good intentions.

He eventually threw a dig at me which I blocked (which nearly made him fall) and at this point it's taking everything in my power not to lay into him so I had to run away.

I'm 6'4" and not a skinny guy. He was 6' at most and I've no doubts I could've done serious damage to him but then I'd end up with a criminal record.

It's not fair, I want my city back

You should have floored him. Only way they'll learn. I doubt these scumbags would find their way to the gardaí. There aren't any around for innocent people then why for them?

Alias G

An Claidheamh wrote: »

You should have floored him. Only way they'll learn. I doubt these scumbags would find their way to the gardaí. There aren't any around for innocent people then why for them?

They may be degenerates but whacking one of them is not going to "teach" them anything either. The poster acted in the the best possible fashion and fair play to him for both stepping in and showing restraint.

Faith+1

Alias G wrote: »

They may be degenerates but whacking one of them is not going to "teach" them anything either. The poster acted in the the best possible fashion and fair play to him for both stepping in and showing restraint.

No, but it would certainly make me feel better knowing I punched some scumbag who was trying to rob an innocent member of the public. These f*ckers are ruining this great city with their behaviour.

Gaspode

Thread seems to have drifted away from O'Connell street to a discussion of heroin addicts/other sundry 'scumbags'.
On topic, I personally think that O'Connell St is far and away better now than it ever was (in my lifetime anyway) and I cant see what ye all are moaning about. Sure there's a few undesirables now & then, but overall I feel safe and comfortable in O'Connell St. whenever I'm there. Sure, I see the skangers and the junkies, but they dont bother me and I don't bother them. There's too many fast food joints on the street spoiling the aesthetics of it, but that's hardly the end of the world.
I was in Brest in France recently and it was dirty, run down and graffiti-ed and Dublin is a jewel in comparison. We don't have it too bad.

RoyMcC

Gaspode wrote: »

Thread seems to have drifted away from O'Connell street to a discussion of heroin addicts/other sundry 'scumbags'.
On topic, I personally think that O'Connell St is far and away better now than it ever was (in my lifetime anyway) and I cant see what ye all are moaning about. Sure there's a few undesirables now & then, but overall I feel safe and comfortable in O'Connell St. whenever I'm there. Sure, I see the skangers and the junkies, but they dont bother me and I don't bother them. There's too many fast food joints on the street spoiling the aesthetics of it, but that's hardly the end of the world.
I was in Brest in France recently and it was dirty, run down and graffiti-ed and Dublin is a jewel in comparison. We don't have it too bad.

Would you not say though that you have simply grown used to it and are familiar with the environment? And as a single male I too found it easy enough to ignore the various unsavoury elements in OCS and the surrounding streets. It's a different matter for women, families, tourists wandering around.

There was a time when the only interruption you'd get would be the odd Irish beggar and - impossible to avoid - the lads with cameras who'd take your picture and give you a card to collect the snap later OK showing my age and we're in different times.

As has been said many times within the thread it is a major issue. Dublin is a great city with so much going for it. You are in danger of losing much of that. I don't pretend to know the solution.

Dyr

markpb wrote: »

It must be fun sitting on the fence making comments that contribute very little to a thread. Do you have any suggestions about how to fix the problem or do you think there's no problem and we're all horribly intolerant?

Make heroin available through treatment centres.

Alternately you can push all the treatment centres back out to the suburbs so the posters here can once again be blissfully unaware of the scale of the problem like their daddies were in the 80s.

Junkies live in alot of places, yes have the clinics in the inner city and have clinics in suburbs whether in Foxrock or Castlenock. Have the clinics wherever they live, thing is the NIMBYS will not let it happen.

It's a case of Not In My Sight for most of the posters in this thread.
I have a treatment centre in my back yard, thanks. Anyone else here living beside one? Throw up the addresses of the HSE treatment centre's in foxrock and castleknock while we're here.

Ole Rodrigo

Gaspode wrote: »

Thread seems to have drifted away from O'Connell street to a discussion of heroin addicts/other sundry 'scumbags'.
On topic, I personally think that O'Connell St is far and away better now than it ever was (in my lifetime anyway) and I cant see what ye all are moaning about. Sure there's a few undesirables now & then, but overall I feel safe and comfortable in O'Connell St. whenever I'm there. Sure, I see the skangers and the junkies, but they dont bother me and I don't bother them. There's too many fast food joints on the street spoiling the aesthetics of it, but that's hardly the end of the world.
I was in Brest in France recently and it was dirty, run down and graffiti-ed and Dublin is a jewel in comparison. We don't have it too bad.

O'Connell Street has come on a lot over recent years, the work the CC has done in the area is to be commended. But there is still a lot to do. Tackling the substance abuse problem in town is a significant part of this, and is part of the thread IMO.

I don't think comparing Brest to Dublin is fair, each city has its own unique dynamic and problems with this sort of thing. We can't just throw our arms up and say it could be worse and do nothing. The ' ah sure it'll be grand ' approach needs to be parked every now and then.

Stereomaniac

I don't mind O'Connell Street, because I spent 5 years living in Dublin. However, I would always have my eyes peeled when I'm walking around up there because, as the man says, there's bad ****ers out there.

EyeSight

Gaspode wrote: »

Thread seems to have drifted away from O'Connell street to a discussion of heroin addicts/other sundry 'scumbags'.
On topic, I personally think that O'Connell St is far and away better now than it ever was (in my lifetime anyway) and I cant see what ye all are moaning about. Sure there's a few undesirables now & then, but overall I feel safe and comfortable in O'Connell St. whenever I'm there. Sure, I see the skangers and the junkies, but they dont bother me and I don't bother them. There's too many fast food joints on the street spoiling the aesthetics of it, but that's hardly the end of the world.
I was in Brest in France recently and it was dirty, run down and graffiti-ed and Dublin is a jewel in comparison. We don't have it too bad.

The thing is, OCS should be the best street in Dublin, full of prosperity. I expect it of small side streets further from the center, but not the main street!

You may feel safe but many do not. Personally i do not fear walking the street but i have my guard up a lot around there. Which is very silly for what should be the main street. Most cities main streets you have to be aware of pickpockets, not junkies stabbing you.
As an example, take NYC. It has a lot of scumbags and heroin problems. But the NYPD don't take any **** from them. 5th Avenue and Times square are very safe areas. The outskirts and alleys can be dangerous but even in the worst parts, cops are around

Last point, are you really happy with the state of the street? I think it's people like you who believe Dublin is perfect are part of the reason nothing changes for the better. We shouldn't be aspiring to have an OK street, we should aspire to have the best street in the world(no i don't think we can have it but if we try, we will probably come close)

tayto lover

In the last year when I have visited Dublin I have rarely seen a Garda on OCS.
I think the cut-backs and austerity have been a major cause of why OCS is in the state it is with so many junkies operating there. I have seen several drug deals being done close to the GPO and not a Garda in sight.

Mr Simpson

tayto lover wrote: »

In the last year when I have visited Dublin I have rarely seen a Garda on OCS.
I think the cut-backs and austerity have been a major cause of why OCS is in the state it is with so many junkies operating there. I have seen several drug deals being done close to the GPO and not a Garda in sight.

I find the opposite, I'm on OCS every day, it's rare I dont see at least 1 Garda. In fact the only time I can recall not seeing one was the one time I needed one (bad luck I suppose)

Gaspode

I certainly wouldn't say it's perfect, but I dont think it's half as bad as some people here are suggesting. To suggest it hasnt changed is not correct though - the street has had huge refurbishments over the last decade, I'd love to see something done about shop facades though at some point.