Advice on letting Agricultural Land

PlanetGaia

I know this is going to sound like a dumb question, but where is the best place to advertise Agricultural Land for letting? Two neigbouring farmers have rented (11-month rental) from my 93yr old uncle (passed away this year) over the last couple of years but were taking adavantage of him. One was paying €60/acre and the other €40/acre. That's the kind of charming place I live!

I don't trust the local Estate Agents as they are friendly with the neighbouring farmers. They've taken money to advertise but haven't actually submitted the Ads. I know I'm not supposed to advertise on boards dot ie. I've had a look at adverts dot ie, but I don't see any land for letting on there. The same seems to be the case with farming websites. Has anyone got any advice as to who (or where) I might go to that might be honest to deal with, or just to advise me. I live in the South-West but given the supposed land-grab that's on, I'm interested in talking to someone who's got a National reach / perspective.

reilig

Why don't you handle it yourself. Place an advertisement in the classifieds in the local newspaper with your mobile number on it. Use your solicitor to draw up a lease agreement (or use a farm planner or download a lease agreement online).

Why do you want a national reach? It will most likely be a local farmer who will lease the land anyway. The majority of farmers local to your area won't be online to read an ad, nor will they be looking at the adverts of national auctioneers , but I'll bet that 99% of them buy the local rag every week!!

PlanetGaia wrote: »

I know this is going to sound like a dumb question, but where is the best place to advertise Agricultural Land for letting? Two neigbouring farmers have rented (11-month rental) from my 93yr old uncle (passed away this year) over the last couple of years but were taking adavantage of him. One was paying €60/acre and the other €40/acre. That's the kind of charming place I live!

I don't trust the local Estate Agents as they are friendly with the neighbouring farmers. They've taken money to advertise but haven't actually submitted the Ads. I know I'm not supposed to advertise on boards dot ie. I've had a look at adverts dot ie, but I don't see any land for letting on there. The same seems to be the case with farming websites. Has anyone got any advice as to who (or where) I might go to that might be honest to deal with, or just to advise me. I live in the South-West but given the supposed land-grab that's on, I'm interested in talking to someone who's got a National reach / perspective.

PlanetGaia

Hi Reilig,
Thanks for reply. Because I'm new to letting land, I was hoping to get a professional to handle it for me, at least until I learn the ropes a bit better, but if it comes to it, I'll handle it myself. Rather than "National", I guess I meant outside of my area. Its a small place and things tend to be quite clique-ish. The agents are earning their fees by being paid by the tenants, rather than a commission from me, which I've asked for. I've asked 3 times for details of fees, and he's avoiding. It makes no sense to me. Thanks again for reply.

ravima

try your local mart, or as others have said advertise in local papers. You might like to try the current lads as well, as if they are good tenants, appreciate teh place and mind it, then you could factor that into the equation, especially if you don't live near.

Also, remember, if you have inherited it, you probably got Agricultural Relief. Talk to your accountant/solicitor/Ag Advisor before you let, as by letting you are a LANDLORD as opposed to a FARMER and you WILL LOSE the relief, unless you are aged over 40 and lease the land for long periods.

PlanetGaia

Hi Ravima,
Thanks for reply. I've just come across the over-40 (which I am) tax relief for longer leases, today. I may look into that. Thanks for helping out a newbie : - )

stanflt

PlanetGaia wrote: »

Hi Ravima,
Thanks for reply. I've just come across the over-40 (which I am) tax relief for longer leases, today. I may look into that. Thanks for helping out a newbie : - )

any where near meath- i know lads that would pay 180an acre and if done for more than 5years you could get it tax free

PlanetGaia

Hi stanflt,
Unfortunately not : - (
West Limerick / North Kerry area

agcons

The two big pitfalls you neeed to watch out for are 1. the auctioneer, as has been mentioned, acting for his tenant clients rather than for you and 2. getting paid.
One of the advantages of using an auctioneer is that they will guarentee the rent, however this guarentee in my experience is only valid until such time as it is needed and then there are any number of reasons why it is invalid in your case. If I were renting out land I would insist on getting paid upfront, even if it means a slightly lower rent. Many of the potential renters will be cattle men and when they have a bad year (ie dont have enough money at the end of the year to pay all the bills) you will be last on the list to be paid.
The tax advantages of long term leases are such that financially it will probably make no sense for an amatuer (no slight intended) such as yourself to get into farming. There are of course more reasons than money for part time farming. Good luck with it anyway

bob charles

PlanetGaia wrote: »

Hi stanflt,
Unfortunately not : - (
West Limerick / North Kerry area

Find a good reliable client and try and hold onto them if they look after the land fairly. Not always the easiest but ask for references regarding other rented ground and then find a bit out about their own operation either with local knowledge our take a drive past their own farm and yard and see how careful they seem to be managing their own property. If their place is in bad shape you can be assure they wont be looking after your few acres. Price isnt everything but this is and impossible point to get across to most land owners.

PlanetGaia

Many thanks for all the advice Agcons & Bob. Trying to find the right tenant is a minefield as I'm learning. No slight taken, Agcons, re being an Amateur :-) I don't intend farming it myself. The "learning the ropes" comment was only in relation to letting. In an ideal world, I'd have an Agent handle it for me, to secure best price and act as middleman. Their 'acting for the tenant' really confuses me. From what I understand of the Property Services Regulatory Act that's just been signed into law, this is misconduct. Shows how naiive I am, expecting professionals to follow the law.

bob charles

PlanetGaia wrote: »

Many thanks for all the advice Agcons & Bob. Trying to find the right tenant is a minefield as I'm learning. No slight taken, Agcons, re being an Amateur :-) I don't intend farming it myself. The "learning the ropes" comment was only in relation to letting. In an ideal world, I'd have an Agent handle it for me, to secure best price and act as middleman. Their 'acting for the tenant' really confuses me. From what I understand of the Property Services Regulatory Act that's just been signed into law, this is misconduct. Shows how naiive I am, expecting professionals to follow the law.

I taught auctioneers where a trustworthy profession :D:D

keep going

A couple of things to bear in mind.what is the land like because some of the land in that area is not good so all im saying is renting value depends on quality.Secondly longer leases are better allround provided that people are on the same wavelength and have a good understanding.dont expect a fella to spend money on your land and get top dollar as well,the money has to come from some where.I myself have rented land for 50 an acre but it needed alot of work so i spent money that i would have paid in rent on the place and the landlord gets a great kick out of the place looking well.eg reseeding costs 250 an acre so allow that over 7 years is roughly 35 an acre per year.If he does 10000 worth of digger work on 50 acres, thats 30 per acre over 7 years. If good land in your area is making 140 you subtract 30 and 35 if he does the work to bring it to 75.And lastly but most important you got to trust the tennet ortherwise do not do business with him.

PlanetGaia

Many thanks 'Keep Going'. Those figures are really useful to know. The problem I have with the current tenants is they were paying extremely low rents to my uncle (€40 and €60/acre), and weren't doing any of that to make up value.

reilig

An off the wall suggestion but I have a friend who is a solicitor. In passing chat last night he told me that he handles several farm leases and cuts out the auctioneer middle man. He handles everything from advertising the property to drawing up the lease and collecting the money. Could you approach your own solicitor for a similar service? The legal profession has become a cut throat business in the last few years and they are hungry for any type of work big or small.

PlanetGaia

God that's an idea! I've always found my solicitor pretty straight to deal with. I'm not sure they deal with land leases, but as you say, in the current climate, they may be open to it. I'll check it out. Thanks reilig! I have to say guys ... I'm so grateful for the advice on this forum!

agcons

reilig wrote: »

An off the wall suggestion but I have a friend who is a solicitor. In passing chat last night he told me that he handles several farm leases and cuts out the auctioneer middle man. He handles everything from advertising the property to drawing up the lease and collecting the money. Could you approach your own solicitor for a similar service? The legal profession has become a cut throat business in the last few years and they are hungry for any type of work big or small.

Using a solicitor will greatly reduce the likeliehood of chancers getting involved and leaves you more likely to be paid as these types are less likely to tangle with a legal eagle than with an 'innocent' landowner

PlanetGaia

The ongoing saga ... Just to update, in case this is of interest / use to anyone else. I've checked with my solicitors. They don't do the agency side as of yet, but I've made the suggestion to them. I think I may have found someone outside of my immediate area, that may be able to help.
What I'm getting on the grapevine is that other farmers won't, as they put it, "go inside" the guys that have been renting, even though they were paying a ridiculous amount to my uncle, and not looking after it. My back is now seriously up ... I'll keep ye posted.

Username John

PlanetGaia wrote: »

The ongoing saga ... Just to update, in case this is of interest / use to anyone else. I've checked with my solicitors. They don't do the agency side as of yet, but I've made the suggestion to them. I think I may have found someone outside of my immediate area, that may be able to help.
What I'm getting on the grapevine is that other farmers won't, as they put it, "go inside" the guys that have been renting, even though they were paying a ridiculous amount to my uncle, and not looking after it. My back is now seriously up ... I'll keep ye posted.

Thats fair enough thought is it not? No one wants the hassle of ending up in the middle of a dispute.

It might be worth talking to the farmers who had rented it, and offer them the place but at a rent you are happy with. Then, put it out "on the grapewine" that they have / had first refusal.

Re the 40 - 60 / acre the lads were paying. Have they been paying this for a long time? Could it be the case this was agreed years ago, when it wasnt so bad, and then was just never revisited?

It looks like you are a bit annoyed with the lads who were renting, which is fair enough in one way. But if yer uncle was happy with it, then you being annoyed might only work against you...

Hope it works out for you and that you get a good lad in, at a good price for everyone.

PlanetGaia

Thanks John. Ah I know you're right. I don't act in anger ever. I just grumble to the 4 walls :-) Whatever happened in the past is, as you say, in the past. That they're using it this year to stop me from getting a fair price (they're not offering any higher) is what's irritating me. If it comes to it, I won't rent at all, and take the hit myself to get out of that bind.

Attie

PlanetGaia wrote: »

Thanks John. Ah I know you're right. I don't act in anger ever. I just grumble to the 4 walls :-) Whatever happened in the past is, as you say, in the past. That they're using it this year to stop me from getting a fair price (they're not offering any higher) is what's irritating me. If it comes to it, I won't rent at all, and take the hit myself to get out of that bind.

PlanetGaia
No need to take a hit, grow a good crop of silage and sell it on it's "foot"
or set some of it for grain depending on the type of land.
Once you have broken their hold yer away.

dar31

just wondering how much land is being rented, the bigger the area the more leverage you should have.
if it a large area, then the farmers might nt be able to be with out it. and you just need to call their bluff. the farmers will probably hold out till it get closer to sfp applications.

im all for getting land at a good price, but 40/60€ /ac is taking the pi**.

is there any entiltments with the land or is it in a disadvantaged area.
ive seen non farmers letting out land, unaware there was a disadvantaged payment on it that the renting farmer was getting.

someone has already said, if you give the current farmers first refusal on the land, then other farmers wont mind so much about crossing them.