Roadworks: Font & Morris Roundabouts

both junctions now up to date on openstreetmap

L'prof

antoobrien wrote: »

which right turn going, straight on form where (there are 4 answers to both questions)?

Right turn on the Tuam road from either direction.

jeoun

Drove through Briarhill, Ballybane and Tuam Road this evening at 6pm. Briarhill working very well, however when the traffic which had the green at Briarhill reached the Ballybane junction, they were red for a couple of minutes. Then once they reached the Tuam road junction, they were red again for a couple of minutes.

I know it may take a while to get the sequence correct, but if they can I think that the junctions may work very well.

Traffic coming from the Headford Rd to the Tuam Road has definitely got worse, backed up quite a way down the dual carraigeway.

BESman

jeoun wrote: »

Traffic coming from the Headford Rd to the Tuam Road has definitely got worse, backed up quite a way down the dual carraigeway.

Drove through here today and I definitely think traffic from the Headford Road side heading onto the Tuam Road has ended up doing worst out of the new junction. Was backed up completely from the Tuam Road roundabout to the Headford Road roundabout at one stage. They'll need to figure out the sequencing in order to prevent this happening regularly.

MaxFlower

BESman wrote: »

Drove through here today and I definitely think traffic from the Headford Road side heading onto the Tuam Road has ended up doing worst out of the new junction. Was backed up completely from the Tuam Road roundabout to the Headford Road roundabout at one stage. They'll need to figure out the sequencing in order to prevent this happening regularly.

The problem is no left turn filter lane and light onto the tuam road and a useless right turn lane (into town having just come from there??) that nobody seems to use.

Sponge Bob

BESman wrote: »

Drove through here today and I definitely think traffic from the Headford Road side heading onto the Tuam Road has ended up doing worst out of the new junction. Was backed up completely from the Tuam Road roundabout to the Headford Road roundabout at one stage.

Well it seems the idea most commonly put forward in this forum ( not by me, I am commenting statistically) is that you should by rights be on a bicycle coming along that stretch...and by that logic you have discovered a feature of the new lights.

jkforde

coming from Font to Morris yesterday in the outside lane and intending to go straight on at Morris I had to change lane in at the lights as the outside lane converts, with no warning signage, into the right-turn lane for Renmore. like i say maybe on first time use i made a mistake but this seems mad and a road alignment and free flow fek up

polskafanka

Sorry for a silly question, but I wasn't driving there yet, have to go to Headford Rd and don't have time to read the thread - are the both roundabouts in subject - junctions now? Also, If going from Briarhill and I want to go to petrol station - I can't turn back now, like I could on roundabout? Where I can turn back to get to that petrol station beside Briarhill dualcarriegway?
Again, sorry for my ignorance, wasnt here for a while and have to drive there tomorrow, want to know what to expect, as I am stiil a learner driver.

finlma

jkforde wrote: »

coming from Font to Morris yesterday in the outside lane and intending to go straight on at Morris I had to change lane in at the lights as the outside lane converts, with no warning signage, into the right-turn lane for Renmore. like i say maybe on first time use i made a mistake but this seems mad and a road alignment and free flow fek up

Same thing happened to me - it looked completely wrong. Surely it should filter right for a turn to Renmore and stay in that lane to go straight ahead.

Zzippy

polskafanka wrote: »

Sorry for a silly question, but I wasn't driving there yet, have to go to Headford Rd and don't have time to read the thread - are the both roundabouts in subject - junctions now? Also, If going from Briarhill and I want to go to petrol station - I can't turn back now, like I could on roundabout? Where I can turn back to get to that petrol station beside Briarhill dualcarriegway?
Again, sorry for my ignorance, wasnt here for a while and have to drive there tomorrow, want to know what to expect, as I am stiil a learner driver.

Yes, they are both signal-controlled junctions now. I saw several cars making U-turns to get to the petrol station yesterday, I suppose if you're in the lane for turning right its not a big problem to turn further right and make a U-turn*.





*This is probably not very good advice, don't blame me if a garda stops you for an illegal U-turn!

Iwannahurl

I wonder what proportion of motorised traffic using the roundabout(s) previously were doing u-turns to access the petrol station?



To clarify:

Zzippy wrote: »

I saw several cars making U-turns to get to the petrol station yesterday,

Is the petrol station the one just off the DC, beside Tony Burke Motors, or whatever that business is called these days?

Would these be drivers heading towards Ballybane/the city who want to turn round and access the petrol station? Or are they heading the other way?

snubbleste

As we know, the Council have cameras at these new junctions and Joe Tansey was on the wireless this morning giving examples of what not to do.
Do not do u-turns
Do not enter a yellow box unless your exit is clear
Do not stop in the middle of a junction to talk to a pedestrian
Do not run red lights

Apparently all these are happening all the time..

antoobrien

<rant>
Christ I wish people would stop using those silly names angela lupton put on them and use the names that were always used (flemming's and digital roundabouts respectively).
</rant>

jkforde wrote: »

coming from Font to Morris yesterday in the outside lane and intending to go straight on at Morris

"Straight on" is not defined by where the majority of traffic goes (or even where one is intending to go). Otherwise the concept of straight would be utterly arbitrary.

Your post neatly highlights the problem with creating a "straight on" from a 60 degree left turn (the same issue is going to happen at Ballinfloyle where you currently turn right off the Headford rd to enter the BNT). "Straight on" in this case is now a right turn.

jkforde wrote: »

I had to change lane in at the lights as the outside lane converts,

Could you please explain the logic of being able to stay in the outside (rightmost) lane to enter the DC, when the correct lane when the RAB was there was always the left lane (in this case one should not have been in the outside lane unless directed there by Gardai).

jkforde wrote: »

with no warning signage, into the right-turn lane[/I] for Renmore.

It's a 4 sided junction, where is the "right turn" supposed to be but on the outside. With a little common sense (especially for people that claim to know where they're going) the warning that you're missing shouldn't be necessary here.

Btw where is the traffic accessing Mervue & Renmore Supposed to go? I mean assuming that they can't turn right are they somehow supposed to magically cross traffic from the left?:rolleyes:

jkforde wrote: »

this seems mad and a road alignment and free flow fek up

NO, mad is some of the counter-intuitive junctions they've created on the M50 (like the M50/M1 junction) where the "straight on" (to Clarehall from the M50) is the right turn and the "right turn" (to access the M1 southbound & Coolock) is right half of the "left turn". Let me tell ya, that takes some real mental gymnastics to get your head around (I keep wanting to go onto the traffic light controlled RAB instead of taking the free-flow exit that looks like it's going the wrong way). They've done something similar on the M50/N3 junction too.

Would you rather see something like that?

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I wonder what proportion of motorised traffic using the roundabout(s) previously were doing u-turns to access the petrol station?

When I read the post initially (not yours) I was thinking about Monaghans on the Tuam Rd (which is something I could see happening due to traffic volume) forgetting that there's no right turn access to Hogans (on the DC).

If you can recall when the lights turned on at Briarhill there were a lot of complaints about u-turns to head back to Mervue - so it's not necessarily to access the petrol station either.

But to answer your question not many would have done it, one rarely saw people heading back out the DC. You'd usually only notice it if a) you were doing it yourself and saw somebody else doing it, or b) saw where they were coming from and took notice of them entering the station.

It kinda highlights the idiocy of city council allowing that petrol station to be built there in the first place.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is the petrol station the one just off the DC, beside Tony Burke Motors, or whatever that business is called these days?

I believe Hogans still own the station & shops in question.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Would these be drivers heading towards Ballybane/the city who want to turn round and access the petrol station? Or are they heading the other way?

If you were heading to Ballybane/City one would more than likely not head back out the DC, unless one was bingo.

polskafanka

Zzippy wrote: »

Yes, they are both signal-controlled junctions now. I saw several cars making U-turns to get to the petrol station yesterday, I suppose if you're in the lane for turning right its not a big problem to turn further right and make a U-turn*.





*This is probably not very good advice, don't blame me if a garda stops you for an illegal U-turn!

There is a petrol station needed in Doughiska! Any suggestions what is the easiest way to get to that petrol station from Briarhill?

kippy

antoobrien wrote: »

When I read the post initially (not yours) I was thinking about Monaghans on the Tuam Rd (which is something I could see happening due to traffic volume) forgetting that there's no right turn access to Hogans (on the DC).

If you can recall when the lights turned on at Briarhill there were a lot of complaints about u-turns to head back to Mervue - so it's not necessarily to access the petrol station either.

But to answer your question not many would have done it, one rarely saw people heading back out the DC. You'd usually only notice it if a) you were doing it yourself and saw somebody else doing it, or b) saw where they were coming from and took notice of them entering the station.

It kinda highlights the idiocy of city council allowing that petrol station to be built there in the first place.



I believe Hogans still own the station & shops in question.



If you were heading to Ballybane/City one would more than likely not head back out the DC, unless one was bingo.

I didn't use that petrol station that much but when I did I would usually head up the dual carriageway (at the clayton) then do a complete "U turn" on the roundabout to get to the petrol station. There were'are other ways to get to it but that was by far the quickest. Not an option now.
Still not sure what they are doing at the old monivea road junction with the "GMIT" road, is it possible to cross that no and continue onto the old monivea road via ballybane?
You weren't able to turn right there before, so I used to go around that roundabout and come back down towards GMIT to get onto that road. That option appears to be gone now as well.

I do think these junctions will lead to more people using the rat runs around the place.
But over all will probably improve the experience for those on the dual carriageways.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

It kinda highlights the idiocy of city council allowing that petrol station to be built there in the first place.

If you were heading to Ballybane/City one would more than likely not head back out the DC, unless one was bingo.

The number of motorists beyond the bingo fuel mark at any one time must be tiny.

The number of motorists who absolutely have to access that petrol station at a particular time must be very small also.

Personally I can't see the necessity for a u-turn in the vast majority of cases, though I'm open to suggestions as to why there might be such a need.

Motorists coming from the Briarhill side have the option of getting fuel at other filling stations not too far away.

Motorists heading out from town would presumably go into the filling station at Hogan's on their way out the DC.

So what cohort of motorists are left, who have any real difficulty accessing Hogan's now that the roundabouts have been removed?

As for heading back to Mervue, the DC is not the only option, is it?

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

As we know, the Council have cameras at these new junctions and Joe Tansey was on the wireless this morning giving examples of what not to do.
Do not do u-turns
Do not enter a yellow box unless your exit is clear
Do not stop in the middle of a junction to talk to a pedestrian
Do not run red lights

Apparently all these are happening all the time..

Sounds like Joe would be a good man to do Story Time at the library. He could start with Noddy...

antoobrien

kippy wrote: »

Still not sure what they are doing at the old monivea road junction with the "GMIT" road, is it possible to cross that no and continue onto the old monivea road via ballybane?

It's not clear from the plans if they intend on re-opening that right turn, there were some suggestions that it would only be a bus gate.

kippy wrote: »

You weren't able to turn right there before, so I used to go around that roundabout and come back down towards GMIT to get onto that road. That option appears to be gone now as well.

Has the proposed "bus hook" been built at the entrance for the business park? If so that's an option

kippy wrote: »

I do think these junctions will lead to more people using the rat runs around the place.

Not really - most of potential rat runs in Mervue are already closed off i.e. Monivea Pk & McHugh Ave the front of KumarketSupervalu.

The only other places that could be used are the school & church accesses (Walter Macken Rd beside the pitches & St James Rd at the back of the school)

kippy

antoobrien wrote: »

It's not clear from the plans if they intend on re-opening that right turn, there were some suggestions that it would only be a bus gate.


Has the proposed "bus hook" been built at the entrance for the business park? If so that's an option


Not really - most of potential rat runs in Mervue are already closed off i.e. Monivea Pk & McHugh Ave the front of KumarketSupervalu.

The only other places that could be used are the school & church accesses (Walter Macken Rd beside the pitches & St James Rd at the back of the school)

The bus hook as been built I believe, but its not really an option at rush hour (I would think)
Those runs that aren't closed off have gotten pretty busy in the past few weeks and I can only see that increase.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The number of motorists beyond the bingo fuel mark at any one time must be tiny.

The number of motorists who absolutely have to access that petrol station at a particular time must be very small also.

Reflected in the low numbers that actually do this.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Personally I can't see the necessity for a u-turn in the vast majority of cases, though I'm open to suggestions as to why there might be such a need.

You should really think about the logistics before posting an something like this - it means that they wouldn't have to travel frhter into town e.g. to get to say Monaghans, Flemmings, Cemetary Cross or College Rd in order to get fuel.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Motorists coming from the Briarhill side have the option of getting fuel at other filling stations not too far away.

Why is it that these things always have to be spelled out to you? Is it that you don't have the first clue about the layout of Galway city perchance?

Why don't you tell us where the three realistic options close to the city are?

N18 in Oranmore (at cold chon) - which people may or may not know about (especially if you don't use the N18 often).

Glynn's/Grealish's at Carnmore cross) - assuming people coming in the Tuam rd won't cut over to the Monivea rd or.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So what cohort of motorists are left, who have any real difficulty accessing Hogan's now that the roundabouts have been removed?

This is a small number, who will adjust their fuel buying accordingly.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

As for heading back to Mervue, the DC is not the only option, is it?

Anybody heading to Mervue would notice the petrol station and can get fuel on their way back out. I know I wouldn't intentionally add 3km to my trip in order to get petrol.

Mrs OBumble

kippy wrote: »

The bus hook as been built I believe, but its not really an option at rush hour (I would think)

The turning bay that includes a bus stop, just inside the entrance to Ballybrit Business / Industrial estates:

• Has indeed been built
• Has been in use for weeks by people exiting Ballybane Industrial estate and wanting to turn right - peak and off peak times alike
• Is working well, as far as I can see - and yes, I've driven in the area once at peak time, and used it.
• Is perfect for Doughiska residents wishing to access the petrol station at Hogans / Burkes on their inward journey - far less troublesome for them than turning at Ballybane shops.

Now if the 405 bus could just start coming up there too, it would be perfect

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Reflected in the low numbers that actually do this.

You should really think about the logistics before posting an something like this - it means that they wouldn't have to travel frhter into town e.g. to get to say Monaghans, Flemmings, Cemetary Cross or College Rd in order to get fuel.

Logistics? We're not talking about moving an army here. The numbers will be low, as you acknowledge.

1. There are filling stations at Cemetery Cross, Moneenageisha and Terryland, AFAICR. I'm not sure if there are others within the same radius.

2. If I am heading out of the city along the DC, then I can fill up at (a) whatever filling station is reasonably close along the route to the DC from my starting point, or (b) at Hogan's on the DC.

3. If I am heading West along the DC then I can fill up at whatever filling station is reasonably close along the route to my destination in the City, or west of it if that's where I'm going.

4. If motorists have travelled to the Briarhill area from outside the city, then they can fill up on their way in, or somewhere other than Hogan's on their way out.

As a motorist, I fail to see what the problem is. As a "logistical" challenge it is a trivial one, in the context of the overall traffic management objectives of the removal of these roundabouts. I fill up my tank when I need to, and it would be daft of me to expect that junctions be designed in such a way as to minimise my responsibility to properly organise the fuelling of my car.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Logistics? We're not talking about moving an army here. The numbers will be low, as you acknowledge.

Logistics is not solely a military concept and perfectly releant to the point at hand.

Btw if the numbers are so low why did you go out of your way to make a big deal about it?

Iwannahurl wrote: »

1. There are filling stations at Cemetery Cross, Moneenageisha and Terryland, AFAICR. I'm not sure if there are others within the same radius.

Wouldn't have to do a U turn of coming from ballybrit to get to those.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

2. If I am heading out of the city along the DC, then I can fill up at (a) whatever filling station is reasonably close along the route to the DC from my starting point, or (b) at Hogan's on the DC.

3. If I am heading West along the DC then I can fill up at whatever filling station is reasonably close along the route to my destination in the City, or
west of it if that's where I'm going.

Not particularly relevant to the u turn to get to hogans

Iwannahurl wrote: »

4. If motorists have travelled to the Briarhill area from outside the city, then they can fill up on their way in, or somewhere other than Hogan's on their way out.

This is the question I was trying to address, Where please? And try to come up with somewhere I haven't already supplied - which is all the answers you've given me and a few more besides.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

As a motorist, I fail to see what the problem is.

The problem of how to get fuel when you don't know anyhwere else - that might cause a bit of a problem for you in future

Iwannahurl wrote: »

As a "logistical" challenge it is a trivial one, in the context of the overall traffic management objectives of the removal of these roundabouts. I fill up my tank when I need to, and it would be daft of me to expect that junctions be designed in such a way as to minimise my need to properly organise the fuelling of my car.

Nobody (but you apparently) is suggesting that anyone here believes we should organize junctions that way. We're just mentioning an unfortunate consequence of making things "better"

yer man!

finlma wrote: »

Same thing happened to me - it looked completely wrong. Surely it should filter right for a turn to Renmore and stay in that lane to go straight ahead.

Just saw the plans there for that junction looks like an awful mistake, when you compare it to the other junction that has the two original lanes going straight on with turning lanes off either of them compared to here where the main lane is the turning lane. I cannot see a reason for this, it will cause some traffic hold up if the N6 is restricted essentially to one lane for the stretch between the two junctions with the other lane for renmore.

yer man!

antoobrien wrote: »

"Straight on" is not defined by where the majority of traffic goes (or even where one is intending to go). Otherwise the concept of straighr would be utterly arbitrary.

Could you please explain the logic of being able to stay in the outside (rightmost) lane to enter the DC, when the correct lane when the RAB was there was always the left lane (in this case one should not have been in the outside lane unless directed there by Gardai).


Btw where is the traffic accessing Mervue & Renmore Supposed to go? I mean assuming that they can't turn right are they somehow supposed to magically cross traffic from the left?:rolleyes:

The Font junction was adapted so the 2 lanes could proceed straight on so you don't have to be in the left lane to go straight on like on a roundabout.

There was more than enough room to do the same thing at the morris junction, they could have put a turning lane coming off the outside lane to turn into renmore. Instead all N6 traffic must be in the left lane to proceed straight ahead, this is unique compared to the other two conversions, it's balls.

And it's a junction now, not a roundabout, roundabout rules go out the window.

antoobrien

yer man! wrote: »

There was more than enough room to do the same thing at the morris junction, they could have put a turning lane coming off the outside lane to turn into renmore. Instead all N6 traffic must be in the left lane to proceed straight ahead,

Again how is the traffic going to Mervue (from Tuam Rd) - the where you will end up going if you don't turn the wheel --dealt with in the case where both lanes go left? Is it just going to magically demerge? Should you allow a right turn form the left lane?

yer man! wrote: »

this is unique compared to the other two conversions, it's balls.

What's unique about it. To go right you stay in the right lane. In fact if you look at the QB when heading to the HRR & the former layout of the Tuam Rd inbound at Font it's the same arrangement. The second left lane splits off the inside lane. It does not force the outside lane wider, which is rare.

For balls see my earlier examples on the M50 changes.

yer man! wrote: »

And it's a junction now, not a roundabout, roundabout rules go out the window.

Actually the same approach rules for getting to the DC apply now as did then. You should have been in the left lane then, you should be now.

Instead all N6 traffic must be in the left lane to proceed straight ahead,[/quote]

The normal definition of straight on a road is where you go when you don't turn the wheel. Now in my car if I didn't turn the wheel coming to this junction I'd end up... .on the ballybane rd. But hey it's nice to know that GCC have the power to temporarily change the driving properties of cars at a whim.

yer man!

antoobrien wrote: »

Again how is the traffic going to Mervue (from Tuam Rd) - the where you will end up going if you don't turn the wheel --dealt with in the case where both lanes go left? Is it just going to magically demerge? Should you allow a right turn form the left lane?



What's unique about it. To go right you stay in the right lane. In fact if you look at the QB when heading to the HRR & the former layout of the Tuam Rd inbound at Font it's the same arrangement. The second left lane splits off the inside lane. It does not force the outside lane wider, which is rare.

For balls see my earlier examples on the M50 changes.



Actually the same approach rules for getting to the DC apply now as did then. You should have been in the left lane then, you should be now.

Instead all N6 traffic must be in the left lane to proceed straight ahead,

What's unique about it is that 2 lanes on all other conversions will be used for the N6 in both directions. In this small stretch only one lane can be used, east bound. Look at briarhill, 2 lanes in the middle to proceed straight ahead - these are the same lanes as the DC, the turning lanes are (try and understand this now, seems to be causing difficulty) on EITHER SIDE!! of the two lanes.

jkforde

antoobrien wrote: »

<rant>
Christ I wish people would stop using those silly names angela lupton put on them and use the names that were always used (flemming's and digital roundabouts respectively).
</rant>
"Straight on" is not defined by where the majority of traffic goes (or even where one is intending to go). Otherwise the concept of straight would be utterly arbitrary.
Your post neatly highlights the problem with creating a "straight on" from a 60 degree left turn (the same issue is going to happen at Ballinfloyle where you currently turn right off the Headford rd to enter the BNT). "Straight on" in this case is now a right turn.
Could you please explain the logic of being able to stay in the outside (rightmost) lane to enter the DC, when the correct lane when the RAB was there was always the left lane (in this case one should not have been in the outside lane unless directed there by Gardai).
It's a 4 sided junction, where is the "right turn" supposed to be but on the outside. With a little common sense (especially for people that claim to know where they're going) the warning that you're missing shouldn't be necessary here.
Btw where is the traffic accessing Mervue & Renmore Supposed to go? I mean assuming that they can't turn right are they somehow supposed to magically cross traffic from the left?:rolleyes:
NO, mad is some of the counter-intuitive junctions they've created on the M50 (like the M50/M1 junction) where the "straight on" (to Clarehall from the M50) is the right turn and the "right turn" (to access the M1 southbound & Coolock) is right half of the "left turn". Let me tell ya, that takes some real mental gymnastics to get your head around (I keep wanting to
go onto the traffic light controlled RAB instead of taking the free-flow exit that looks like it's going the wrong way). They've done something similar on the M50/N3 junction too.
Would you rather see something like that?

a short answer to all that is look at the new junction at Parkmore further on... if travelling in the outside lane to continue on straight one does not have to change lanes as the right-turn lane is filtered off to the right as normal (both previous RABs had three exits so it's directly comparable).

Zzippy

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I wonder what proportion of motorised traffic using the roundabout(s) previously were doing u-turns to access the petrol station?



To clarify:



Is the petrol station the one just off the DC, beside Tony Burke Motors, or whatever that business is called these days?

Would these be drivers heading towards Ballybane/the city who want to turn round and access the petrol station? Or are they heading the other way?

Yes, the Hogan's service station on the DC. I was talking about motorists coming from Briarhill direction on the DC and doing a U-turn at the lights to head back out the DC, I presumed it was to reach the petrol station. I saw 3 cars in a row do this during one sequence of lights while I was waiting at the other side of the junction.

polskafanka wrote: »

There is a petrol station needed in Doughiska! Any suggestions what is the easiest way to get to that petrol station from Briarhill?

Go in the old Monivea Road and approach the new junction from Mervue/Ballybane direction, its a right turn to go out the dual carriageway then.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The number of motorists beyond the bingo fuel mark at any one time must be tiny.

The number of motorists who absolutely have to access that petrol station at a particular time must be very small also.

Personally I can't see the necessity for a u-turn in the vast majority of cases, though I'm open to suggestions as to why there might be such a need.

Motorists coming from the Briarhill side have the option of getting fuel at other filling stations not too far away.

Motorists heading out from town would presumably go into the filling station at Hogan's on their way out the DC.

So what cohort of motorists are left, who have any real difficulty accessing Hogan's now that the roundabouts have been removed?

As for heading back to Mervue, the DC is not the only option, is it?

A lot of people out that side (Briarhill/Doughiska) would have used the roundabout to turn back and go to that petrol station, its (usually) the cheapest one in the area, and you're on the way back home when you drive out of it. Going to Monaghans or Flemings involved more driving and negotiating another roundabout/junction with the possibility of more traffic too.