CCTV versus Alarm for house

rjr2

I don't have either. Would it be mad to just invest in cctv cameras and forget about the alarm.

I'm thinking cctv is more of a deterent these days to criminals with the added bonus of being able to see who was breaking in or trying to break into your house.

altor

rjr2 wrote: »

I don't have either. Would it be mad to just invest in cctv cameras and forget about the alarm.

I'm thinking cctv is more of a deterent these days to criminals with the added bonus of being able to see who was breaking in or trying to break into your house.

That's if they don't break in and steal the DVR
Both are a deterrent, a combination of both would be a better solution.

cursai

Working in this area id recommend an outside sensor light. A large dog and hidden CCTV. With the dvr hidden. Fake cables leading to nowhere and such. Alarms are mostly useless as the response time is hampered by bad communication and length of time contacting Gardai. Also good locks on doors are essential. I if you have a sliding pvc door.....dump it.

Jnealon

cursai wrote: »

Working in this area id recommend an outside sensor light. A large dog and hidden CCTV. With the dvr hidden. Fake cables leading to nowhere and such. Alarms are mostly useless as the response time is hampered by bad communication and length of time contacting Gardai. Also good locks on doors are essential. I if you have a sliding pvc door.....dump it.

Yeah great advise there
imo an alarm would be a better deterrent provided you are living in an urban area and not in the middle of nowhere

kub

cursai wrote: »

Working in this area id recommend an outside sensor light. A large dog and hidden CCTV. With the dvr hidden. Fake cables leading to nowhere and such. Alarms are mostly useless as the response time is hampered by bad communication and length of time contacting Gardai. Also good locks on doors are essential. I if you have a sliding pvc door.....dump it.

Alarms are mostly useless.......are they really, would you please broaden your statement.

And by the way, do you install alarms? Do you have a PSA license?

Also, lets call a spade a spade, domestic CCTV systems are basic and have to be so, for the money people in general pay for them.
All an intruder has to do is wear a hoody to avoid being identified on a CCTV system. Now whats he got to do to avoid being detected by an intruder alarm.....ps I mean a proper one, not a cheap one.

lgk

Had my garden shed broken into recently, Gardai said there was a steady increase in burglaries over the last while, but that houses with working alarms (flahsing light(s) on the bell box) were generally avoided in favour of softer targets.

KoolKid

A good alarm will be a better deterrant than CCTV. As said , all you need is a hoody.
A good system with a newish bell box. Thats the first thing a potential burglar sees.

cursai

KoolKid wrote: »

A good alarm will be a better deterrant than CCTV. As said , all you need is a hoody.
A good system with a newish bell box. Thats the first thing a potential burglar sees.

It could take anything from 5mins to twenty for gardai to respond to an alarm call. CCtv is sometimes usable evidence. Sensor lights make it less attractive for a burglar and good locks make it almost impossible. I know because......

cursai

kub wrote: »

Alarms are mostly useless.......are they really, would you please broaden your statement.

And by the way, do you install alarms? Do you have a PSA license?

Also, lets call a spade a spade, domestic CCTV systems are basic and have to be so, for the money people in general pay for them.
All an intruder has to do is wear a hoody to avoid being identified on a CCTV system. Now whats he got to do to avoid being detected by an intruder alarm.....ps I mean a proper one, not a cheap one.

Alarms are great. eventually youll find out youve had a burglar. Alarm company ring owner - alarm company ring gardai, Time lost. Alarm company have no directions to house. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. But prevention is always better than cure. and a camera system that can pick up a reg no or a persons body shape or familiar movements is very useful for an investigation.
How often do people pay heed to alarms sounding in an estate. never mind out in the country.

KoolKid

How long the Guards take for an alarm activation is irrelevant. The keyholder will be there quicker. For all a burglar knows the keyholder could be less than a minute away.
All I want Garda response for is a panic alarm and that will be within minutes.
What good is CCTV in that situation.
Prevention is better than cure and the simple fact is the majority of houses broken into do not have an alarm.

Jnealon

cursai wrote: »

Alarms are great. eventually youll find out youve had a burglar. Alarm company ring owner - alarm company ring gardai, Time lost. Alarm company have no directions to house. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. But prevention is always better than cure. and a camera system that can pick up a reg no or a persons body shape or familiar movements is very useful for an investigation.
How often do people pay heed to alarms sounding in an estate. never mind out in the country.

You really know your stuff
Insurance companies give discounts on your policy when you have an alarm and even more when it's monitored.
Why would they do this

KoolKid

Jnealon wrote: »

You really know your stuff
Insurance companies give discounts on your policy when you have an alarm and even more when it's monitored.
Why would they do this

They do this because the stats are that you are much more likely to be broken into if you don't have am alarm. Something cursai wishes to ignore.

Jnealon

KoolKid wrote: »

They do this because the stats are that you are much more likely to be broken into if you don't have am alarm. Something cursai wishes to ignore.

Exactly, top marks.
But I was hoping our top student could answer that

kub

cursai wrote: »

Alarms are great. eventually youll find out youve had a burglar. Alarm company ring owner - alarm company ring gardai, Time lost. Alarm company have no directions to house. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. But prevention is always better than cure. and a camera system that can pick up a reg no or a persons body shape or familiar movements is very useful for an investigation.
How often do people pay heed to alarms sounding in an estate. never mind out in the country.

You are now saying alarms are great, previously you stated they were useless, now which is it?
If the house is out in the Sticks, I personally always ensure that the monitoring station have directions to the premises.
Also us professional installers have to complete various paperwork in order that the intruder alarm gets a Garda response in the first instance and also directions and other information is on this form which is a confidential matter between the installer, monitoring station and Gardai.
With regard to CCTV, you obviously look at too much TV. We install them all: Alarms, CCTV, Access Control and Auto Gates. It is a case of Horses for courses.
If you want to Detect a burglar then you need a thing called a Burglar alarm.
If you want to observe a burglar then you need a CCTV system.
Both do different jobs, end of story.

cursai

I just realised this whole thread is full of sales pitches. And aggressive ones at that. Lads do whatever ye think. I've no problems with alarms but to have a good lock and door and CCTV to record anybody checking your house out is useful too. CCTV also acts as deterrent and Noone listens to an alarm out in the country. Not everyone lives in an urban area.
wow some of the snide little comments here. Even from the moderator who should know better. Sales must be down lads wha.

ronan45

does anyone know if there also be a discount on your home insurance if you had a half decent CCTV System installed? If there were it may pay for itself in a few years!

KoolKid

@ Cursai
There is no sales pitching going on. Just lads talking sense and quoting facts.
Like that fact that insurance companies give discounts on alarms for a reason.
You choose to ignore that in your answers ofcourse.
Many installers here give a lot of time freely to help end users.If you cone on stating alarms are no good and yet ignore evidence against that when its presented to you, you must expect the responses like what your getting.
Posts of mine in plain text are me posting as a user. Posts in bold are as a moderator.
Please don't confuse the 2.
If you care to report or PM me what comments of mine you object to feel free. You may also discuss this with the other moderators on this forum.
If you have an issue with a post please use the report post function.
On tread is not the place for that.

kub

cursai wrote: »

I just realised this whole thread is full of sales pitches. And aggressive ones at that. Lads do whatever ye think. I've no problems with alarms but to have a good lock and door and CCTV to record anybody checking your house out is useful too. CCTV also acts as deterrent and Noone listens to an alarm out in the country. Not everyone lives in an urban area.
wow some of the snide little comments here. Even from the moderator who should know better. Sales must be down lads wha.

I actually am beginning to think that if this was another forum, then you might be ignored, just us professional security system engineers are a patient bunch. Its our particular profession has us like that.
I think you have your own amateur ideas regarding home security, so let you carry on with those ideas.
Regarding your lock comment above....brilliant if that is the only entry point to a house. Ever consider someone with a hoodie could break in through a window, lets see where your CCTV and lock gets you then.
By the way, business is good, we are kept busy, thanks in a way to badly advised people.

kub

ronan45 wrote: »

does anyone know if there also be a discount on your home insurance if you had a half decent CCTV System installed? If there were it may pay for itself in a few years!

I do not think so, insurance companies seem only to be interested in such systems in pubs/ nightclubs etc.
I have never come across such a reduction.
But as you can probably gather at this stage, its horses for courses on this whole subject. CCTV is to Observe/ Monitor, a Burglar alarm is to Detect/ Activate.

lgk

And for the record, I'm not involved in any way in the security industry. What I posted in relation to a working alarm being the primary deterent was directly from the Gardai who called out after my shed had been broken into.

KoolKid

I don't think anyone suggested you were.
I think kubs comments were at cursai who mentionsed something vaugly about been involved in the industry. However he didn't elaborate on it.
Ppossibly somthing to do with trying to push locks etc over alarms.
I think most here would agree with your quote below.

Gardai said there was a steady increase in burglaries over the last while, but that houses with working alarms (flahsing light(s) on the bell box) were generally avoided in favour of softer targets.

lgk

KoolKid wrote: »

I don't think anyone suggested you were.

Sorry, I could have been clearer. I posted that in response Cursai's allegation that there was a lot of sales pitches in the thread.

KoolKid

Oh that.
We all know thats not the case.
There is more done here for nothing than anything else.

gaz123

Can anyone tell me how much it would cost to install a CCTV system in a private house

This is what Im looking to install


1 x High Definition 4-Channel DVR c/w 500GB of storage, enabled for remote access

4 x 1/3” Sony CCD Dome 4~9mm IR Cameras (600TVL), 20 to 30 meter Infra Red

1 x Power Supply 4 way

Video & Power Cable Combined plus misc materials

KoolKid

To buy or to have installed?

kub

gaz123 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how much it would cost to install a CCTV system in a private house

This is what Im looking to install


1 x High Definition 4-Channel DVR c/w 500GB of storage, enabled for remote access

4 x 1/3” Sony CCD Dome 4~9mm IR Cameras (600TVL), 20 to 30 meter Infra Red

1 x Power Supply 4 way

Video & Power Cable Combined plus misc materials

This seems like a very technical query and you do seem to know what exactly you want. As KoolKid mentioned is it supply only or supply and fit?

Being honest though, if this is an installers specification and you now have his price then I would encourage you to get 2 other quotes from other installers.
The bottom line is, all houses are different, so it is not possible to give you an exact quote to actually install the system.

frozenbanana

How about something like this:

http://www.dhgate.com/hot-wireless-cctv-dvr-system-one-usb-port/p-ff80808130e5a3250130ead9ad1c6719.html

These cameras have motion sensors and can be monitored remotely through a smartphone. The idea is that when something triggers the sensor, you have a look and if you see someone in your garden contact the guards/neighbours or make your way home. Recorded footage is an added bonus if the case goes to court.

Any thoughts?

I'd be dubious about unmonitored alarms, in my experience they are usually ignored. Monitored ones are better but pricey and I believe they charge you extra for accidental activations which are quite common.

KoolKid

There is no charge for false alarm activations on a monitored alarm.
The Guards may witdraw response after a number of fase alarms in a short peroid of time.

frozenbanana

KoolKid wrote: »

There is no charge for false alarm activations on a monitored alarm.
The Guards may witdraw response after a number of fase alarms in a short peroid of time.

Fair enough, I thought they did if they happen too often.

Any thoughts on the system I linked?

KoolKid

Not very much info on specs there. Generally cheap wireless cameras are not good.

altor

frozenbanana wrote: »

Any thoughts on the system I linked?

Very low quality. Not a big range for open air on the receiver either. A wired system would be the way to go.