Man who knocked down burglar in court

Frank Black

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

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The robber was a criminal and scum yes, but how is the victim any better? He deliberatly ran down another person.....surely this is not the example we want to follow?

If you do then I suggest you want to take a good look at yourself.

I believe he is claiming that he accidently ran down another person while trying to stop him escaping.

uberalles

My name is URL wrote: »

He was an idiot to go after the burglar. Why? Because he's now on trial for it and stands to be punished more severely than the burglar himself. It doesn't matter if people agree with it or not, that's the law. You're allowed to protect yourself and your home, but chasing and driving over somebody twice is plain fcuking stupid when you know you're going to be done for it.

Until it happens to you personally you don't know how you would react. Have you ever been burgled while you were in a house asleep? I have and the adrenalin rush is unreal. He deserved the pain but. Not he 175k compo claim. He is set up now FFS

uberalles

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe he claimed of his car insurance.

Insurance covers accidents, I don't think it covers rage. I'd say that money came from the drivers pocket.

mfceiling

uberalles wrote: »

Until it happens to you personally you don't know how you would react. Have you ever been burgled while you wee in a house asleep? I have and the adrenalin rush is unreal. He deserved the pain but. Not he 175k compo claim. He is set up now FFS

I was burgled last Thursday night....took out pane of glass so as not to set off alarm then took car, laptop and wife's purse.

I also had 3 small kids in bed upstairs.

The fear I have now in my house at night won't go away easily....spent a fortune replacing window, locks and upgrading alarm.

Fcuk these scumbags going into people's homes....what about the victims?

My wife has barely slept from Friday and my eldest one wants to know where her bike has gone?

I work hard for what I get and never put my hand out for the state to grease.

I'm getting a baseball bat and I will put it under my bed to have some sense of protection but I or anyone else shouldn't have to.

To be honest when that pr!ck admitted to being inside that mans house without consent the judge should have jailed him immediately for 10 years - no questions asked.

Scumbags are getting away with more and more and it's the ordinary taxpayers who are footing the bill for their legal aid, social welfare etc to be then told that if they go to court - but they had a disadvantaged upbringing so go easy on them judge.

Yeah well I had a very modest upbringing - father away 6 nights out of 7 in England driving a truck to pay the mortgage (didn't trouble the state for accommodation) and to put food on the table but we didn't rob houses, cars or beat up people for money - no - we knew the difference between right and wrong and you don't need your parents to tell you that.

Sorry to all you bleeding heart liberals out there but when or if (I hope never) you are the victim of a crime then come back to me and tell me that scum should be pitied.

uberalles

Picture the scene. You wake up sleepy and find an intruder in the house. You see him run from the garden and you are now at the door with a set of car keys. You are in the car driving after the low life. Do you a) presume the burgular is from a posh area and say "excuse me Mr burgular, I really must insist you stop ...... immobilise the low life in what ever way possible.
Fair play to the owner. Thankfully he had the presence of mind not to kill the fcuker.

That 175K should be taken back off that scum bag.

Corruptable

Absolutely a disgraceful set of events. The homeowner/driver went too far in using his car as a weapon, ideally he should have followed just followed the burglar while directing the Gardai to his location.

To answer Sean's earlier question, if it has not been answered already, the burglar received a suspended sentence (3 years suspended I think) for the burglary. I have no doubt that he will breach that suspended sentence within that time and end up inside again with full bed and board, even the opportunity to get an Open University degree if he so chose - so the whole thing about a cycle of disadvantage and lack of educational opportunity is rubbish, just look at yer man Christy Kinehan with a Masters in French Modern Language.

I really think it's time that homeowners organised themselves into a recognisable national lobby to have the Law tilted back in favour of the victim of crime, currently homeowners still run the risk of running foul of legislation such as Occupiers Liability, Non-Fatal Offences, etc.

A balance has to be struck.

benway

Plazaman wrote:

rsole1 wrote:

So if I shoot a burglar with my legally held shotgun, he sues me for compensation? Surely not.

Not if you're in your own home, but if you shoot him in the street, you're fúcked (so drag him back inside your house)

Ah now. You're only *ever* justified in shooting someone if that represents reasonable force to protect your property or family in the circumstances. I'm kinda worried that one of you boards Rambos is going to get themselves in trouble based on a deficient understanding of the law.

Seems to me that plenty of you know very little about the legal system, despite some very strong opinions.

Caveman1

Would the burglar have received the €175k from the home owner or would he have claimed it off the state?

rsole1

benway wrote: »

Ah now. You're only *ever* justified in shooting someone if that represents reasonable force to protect your property or family in the circumstances. I'm kinda worried that one of you boards Rambos is going to get themselves in trouble based on a deficient understanding of the law.

Seems to me that plenty of you know very little about the legal system, despite some very strong opinions.

So how do we go about placing a burglar under citizens arrest if he doesn't want to hang around to be apprehended.

benway

You don't. Once your home and family are safe, it's a job for the Gardaí.

Corruptable wrote:

I really think it's time that homeowners organised themselves into a recognisable national lobby to have the Law tilted back in favour of the victim of crime, currently homeowners still run the risk of running foul of legislation such as Occupiers Liability, Non-Fatal Offences, etc.

Homeowners already have plenty of laws for their protection, the problem is practical prevention. And no matter how "tough" the law is, or how vigilant the cops are, there will always be some crime.

What you seem to be looking for is vigilantism, allowing "decent" folks to identify "scumbags" and act as judge, jury and executioner, right?

Show Time

The King of Moo wrote: »

What an odd question. I've never been burgled. Oh, and I don't have kids, before that comes up.

Ah see now i understand why you are talking a load of rubbish.

Come back to us when you have an idea of what it feels like to have an uninvited guest go through your house.

rsole1

benway wrote: »

You don't. Once your home and family are safe, it's a job for the Gardaí.


Homeowners already have plenty of laws for their protection, the problem is practical prevention. And no matter how "tough" the law is, or how vigilant the cops are, there will always be some crime.

What you seem to be looking for is vigilantism, allowing "decent" folks to identify "scumbags" and act as judge, jury and executioner, right?

The Gardai would take at least 15 minutes to get to my place - I thought citizens arrest was an option.

Triangla

Suspended sentence for burglary, why bother bringing him to court at all.

Not much of a deterrent but a running over with a car sure as hell is.

benway

rsole1 wrote: »

I thought citizens arrest was an option.

Technically it is, but it's not a good option. Much better to leave it to the cops. What are you people like? Have you all been watching too many superhero movies or something? :rolleyes:

tallus

mfceiling wrote: »

I was burgled last Thursday night....took out pane of glass so as not to set off alarm then took car, laptop and wife's purse.

I also had 3 small kids in bed upstairs.

The fear I have now in my house at night won't go away easily....spent a fortune replacing window, locks and upgrading alarm.

Fcuk these scumbags going into people's homes....what about the victims?

My wife has barely slept from Friday and my eldest one wants to know where her bike has gone?

I work hard for what I get and never put my hand out for the state to grease.

I'm getting a baseball bat and I will put it under my bed to have some sense of protection but I or anyone else shouldn't have to.

To be honest when that pr!ck admitted to being inside that mans house without consent the judge should have jailed him immediately for 10 years - no questions asked.

Scumbags are getting away with more and more and it's the ordinary taxpayers who are footing the bill for their legal aid, social welfare etc to be then told that if they go to court - but they had a disadvantaged upbringing so go easy on them judge.

Yeah well I had a very modest upbringing - father away 6 nights out of 7 in England driving a truck to pay the mortgage (didn't trouble the state for accommodation) and to put food on the table but we didn't rob houses, cars or beat up people for money - no - we knew the difference between right and wrong and you don't need your parents to tell you that.

Sorry to all you bleeding heart liberals out there but when or if (I hope never) you are the victim of a crime then come back to me and tell me that scum should be pitied.

Been there myself, and almost 20 months down the road my house doesn't feel like it's mine anymore.

niall2701

This scumbag is of no benefit to society, NONE at all. he contributes NOTHING but costs us a fortune. His social workers salaries, probation officers salaries, prison officers salaries, lawyers, dole payments, Judges salaries, medical payments to name but a few are paid for by me and the other tax payers.

There has to be a way for us to have these payments stopped we just can't afford drains on society like this anymore.

He won't be bothered by USC, increases in VHI, Quinn or Aviva health... bin charges, House hold levies etc etc as we pay his bills.

Aren't we a shower of gob****es !!!!!!!!!

rsole1

benway wrote: »

Technically it is, but it's not a good option. Much better to leave it to the cops. What are you people like? Have you all been watching too many superhero movies or something? :rolleyes:

Twenty years military service actually.

Corruptable

benway wrote: »

What you seem to be looking for is vigilantism, allowing "decent" folks to identify "scumbags" and act as judge, jury and executioner, right?

No, you know that's not what I'm after if you read my post. I stated that the driver was not right to do what he did, from both a legal and a practical viewpoint.

However, there is no doubt that people are afraid to confront criminals in certain instances due to the possibility of civil liability arising in certain instances, and there's still some concern and misunderstanding about potential criminal liability.

Even your response to the poster asking about "citizen's arrest" is telling. You say it's only based in theory. Well lets take it out of theory, and take the risk of civil liability (the number one thing which stops people getting involved) out of the equation in particular situations.

Remember, this is the country that also recently had to create an exemption from civil liability for "good samaritans" who rendered first aid to an injured person for risk that they would be sued for doing so if something went wrong.

I really don't understand what is wrong with the legal establishment in this country. Perhaps there's a fear of losing legal aid money, or that ridiculous claims would no longer be entertained (i.e.: the potential burglar/trespasser who falls into a well on a property and then sues under Occupiers Liability).

mfceiling

tallus wrote: »

Been there myself, and almost 20 months down the road my house doesn't feel like it's mine anymore.

Truly horrible feeling that someone or more than one were walking through your home and going through your stuff while you slept upstairs.

Your house doesn't really feel like your safe refuge from the world anymore.

Hope the feeling goes away for you Tallus.

tallus

mfceiling wrote: »

Truly horrible feeling that someone or more than one were walking through your home and going through your stuff while you slept upstairs.

Your house doesn't really feel like your safe refuge from the world anymore.

Hope the feeling goes away for you Tallus.

Every single time I return home, I expect to find the place burgled again. ****ing horrible feeling that's hard to shake.
Right back at you.

Corruptable

Don't anyone get me wrong, for the most part I like the law the way it is at the moment. But reforms are long overdue, and all the evidence is pointing to the fact that it is not functioning as it should and it is certainly not deterring criminals (and yes the actions of the man were criminal and it's appropriate that he be bought to court as the threat was generally negated by the time he caught up with the burglar.

MrPudding

Show Time wrote: »

Ah see now i understand why you are talking a load of rubbish.

Come back to us when you have an idea of what it feels like to have an uninvited guest go through your house.

Having an uninvited guest in your house is one thing, adn defending your family and property, using reasonable force, is allowed.

Chasing the guy after he has left your house and running him over twice is not self defence, it is revenge. Revenge is not and should not be allowed by the law.

The home owner is a fcuking idiot and deserves everything he gets.

MrP

benway

Even your response to the poster asking about "citizen's arrest" is telling. You say it's only based in theory. Well lets take it out of theory, and take the risk of civil liability (the number one thing which stops people getting involved) out of the equation in particular situations.

Telling? In theory you're entitled to make an arrest if it's an arrestable offense and the perpetrator is likely to evade the Gardaí. But in practice it's a bad idea for most people to take on a criminal in a row, you may open yourself to civil or criminal liability if you use excessive force, or the offense isn't arrest able, or if you make a mistake as to fact. Or you might get yourself a hiding for your troubles.

For those reasons, I would never encourage have-a-go-heroes, just too risky, better to keep yourself safe and leave it to the professionals.

What exact changes do you want?

Ficheall

MrPudding wrote: »

Having an uninvited guest in your house is one thing, adn defending your family and property, using reasonable force, is allowed.

Chasing the guy after he has left your house and running him over twice is not self defence, it is revenge. Revenge is not and should not be allowed by the law.

The home owner is a fcuking idiot and deserves everything he gets.

MrP

It's not just revenge. It may help alleviate the fear that the person, who since they got away scot-free the first time, might be tempted to come back.
Also - they have your stuff.

Are you of the opinion that if someone goes to the effort of breaking into your house and stealing stuff, then they should just be allowed to keep it?

Stiffler2

This Kun-tree is a complete F**king joke.

At least I now know if I ever run over a burglar to finish the job and get rid of the body.

Bruthal

man.about.town wrote: »

no but definitely deserves 10 years or more, they invade your house, your own personal sanctuary that everyone should feel safe and secure, people who are burgled dont feel comfortable in there own home for years maybe forever and the courts dont take this serious. such a joke. imagine paying your big mortgage for 30+ years to not feel comfortable in it, and for many people now, moving is not an option with negative equity etc...

I HATE SCUMBAGS

100%.

gerryo777

DarkJager wrote: »

Not serious enough unfortunately. He should have at least crippled the little **** or preferably done a proper job and killed him.

If he'd left the little scumbag in a wheelchair, he wouldn't be out robbing peoples houses!!

Ficheall

benway wrote: »

leave it to the professionals.

:pac:

Jaysoose

MrPudding wrote: »

Having an uninvited guest in your house is one thing, adn defending your family and property, using reasonable force, is allowed.

Chasing the guy after he has left your house and running him over twice is not self defence, it is revenge. Revenge is not and should not be allowed by the law.

The home owner is a fcuking idiot and deserves everything he gets.

MrP

Absolute nonsense this scumbag created the entire situation and you say it was revenge..he was trying to stop the guy and inadvertantly knocked him down he did not go out with the implicit intention of running him over so your talking out your hat.

This scumbag is a drain on society and if he wanted to sue the homeowner should have been made pay his own legal fees. The same guy views the laws of the land as something he can ignore and rob houses etc but then he wants the same society to pay his legal bills. If he wants to ignore the laws and break into somebodies home then he shouldnt be allowed to hide behind the law and get this disgraceful payment which essentially rewards him for causing the entire situation.

The real kicker is that the money has to come from somewhere and the insurance company will pass the cost on to other customers to recoup it this affecting more and more people all to pay off some worthless piece of scum like this.

ash23

I can't understand his reaction.
I've been broken into when I was younger. Two girls, late teens living alone and woken to find a gang of guys standing in their bedrooms. Scary doesn't even cut it.
BUT our main thing was our safety. We screamed at them and thank god, they ran, taking our stuff with them. Did we run after them? Did we hell!
We double locked the doors, checked all the other rooms and called the gaurds.


And now, living alone with my child, if someone broke in, I wouldn't be running out to my car to chase down a thief. I'd be securing my home, making sure my kids were ok and calling the guards.
This bloke must not have even had time to check his kids were ok. He ran out in his underwear and hopped into his car.Then he hit the guy twice with his car.
There's no defence for that in my opinion. Property is not worth hurting someone for.

The sentence the burglar got wasn't enough but we can't just decide to mow down anyone who has ever p!ssed us off or stolen.