Iran behind attacks on Israeli diplomats

wendell borton

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/15/thai-bombers-india-terror-attacks

What no moral outrage from the PC brigade?

Attabear

wendell borton wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/15/thai-bombers-india-terror-attacks

What no moral outrage from the PC brigade?

This will not end well.

Seachmall

The PC Brigade have quietened down a bit since it was discovered they don't exist and are simply a construct of people's imagination.

fedor.2.

I think we all agree that Iran needs to be taught a lesson once and for all

Otacon

wendell borton wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/15/thai-bombers-india-terror-attacks

What no moral outrage from the PC brigade?

Not that I have any love for Iran but the article just mentions accusations, no proof... Unless you have some yourself?

grenache

fedor.2. wrote: »

I think we all agree that Israel needs to be thought a lesson once and for all

FYP.

Ellis Dee

The zionazi terrorists can't really expect to murder scientists in Iran without someone hitting back at them.:):):)

Run_to_da_hills

Already being discussed in CT.

Also here.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/226741.html

jester77

wendell borton wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/15/thai-bombers-india-terror-attacks

What no moral outrage from the PC brigade?

The PC brigade are all using Macs now.

Son Of A Vidic

Love this....

Shoham said. "They are similar to the ones used in Delhi and in Tbilisi," he said. "From that we can assume that there is the same network of terror."

Network of terror? Laughable really, especially when you consider all the Iranian scientists Mossad have been blowing up. It was only a matter of time that the favour would be returned. Assuming it is the Iranians of course.

wendell borton

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Already being discussed in CT.

Also here.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/226741.html

They just seem to regurgitate whatever iranian propaganda press tv spew.

CardBordWindow

Just the start of an excuse for another US-led invasion.

Run_to_da_hills

wendell borton wrote: »

They just seem to regurgitate whatever iranian propaganda press tv spew.

Just like this

Sergeant

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Just like this

That guy hasn't a leg to stand on.

AeoNGriM

fedor.2. wrote: »

I think we all agree that Iran needs to be thought a lesson once and for all

The ironing is deelishus.

Zebra3

wendell borton wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/15/thai-bombers-india-terror-attacks

What no moral outrage from the PC brigade?

Congrats on starting a thread with a nice catchy title that you can't back up with facts. :rolleyes:

Sergeant

Zebra3 wrote: »

Congrats on starting a thread with a nice catchy title that you can't back up with facts. :rolleyes:

Care to enlighten us with the facts?

wes

Sergeant wrote: »

Care to enlighten us with the facts?

The person making the accusation is the one who needs to provide the facts, not anyone else. I would also note that Iran has made similar accusations against Israel, similarly without proof, and yet those accusation are rightly ignored due to lack of evidence, but the moment Israel does the same thing, we are suppose to accept it as gospel truth? Seems to me a pretty clearl double standard by some people.

KeithAFC

Another case in the long history of the Iran mission to destroy Israel. I admire the resilience of the Israeli people to not let this vicious Iranian regime intimidate them. The fight to maintain Jewish freedom is a long struggle but one which is very important.

Morlar

KeithAFC wrote: »

Another case in the long history of the Iran mission to destroy Israel. I admire the resilience of the Israeli people to not let this vicious Iranian regime intimidate them. The fight to maintain Jewish freedom is a long struggle but one which is very important.

Where do the rights of the Palestinian people fit in with all this propaganda spiel ?

Einhard

wes wrote: »

The person making the accusation is the one who needs to provide the facts, not anyone else. I would also note that Iran has made similar accusations against Israel, similarly without proof, and yet those accusation are rightly ignored due to lack of evidence, but the moment Israel does the same thing, we are suppose to accept it as gospel truth? Seems to me a pretty clearl double standard by some people.

Double standards by both sides really. When Iranian scientists are killed there are no shortage of people claiming, here and elsewhere, that Mossad were behind it. Indeed, you'll find claims to that effect on this very thread. People make claims without proof on both sides, so it's a bit rich to claim that double standards exist on one side and not the other.

Having said all that, I think it's reasonable to suspect that this was likely an Iranian sponsered act in retaliation for what were most likely Israeli sponsored attack on Iranian scientists. Both should be condemned. The problem is that one side will condemn Iran exclusively, the other Israel, and both will complain of double standards!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

wendell borton wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/15/thai-bombers-india-terror-attacks

What no moral outrage from the PC brigade?

You spelt "fire" wrong.

Einhard

Ellis Dee wrote: »

The zionazi terrorists can't really expect to murder scientists in Iran without someone hitting back at them.:):):)

Jesus Christ. I can understand when people compare Israeli actions to those of terrorists, and I can understand how people could have major issues with the Israeli state, but there is really no comparison between that state and the state of Nazi Germany, and to compare the two like you do seems crass in the extreme, and designed only to provoke offence and insult.

Zebra3

KeithAFC wrote: »

Another case in the long history of the Iran mission to destroy Israel. I admire the resilience of the Israeli people to not let this vicious Iranian regime intimidate them. The fight to maintain Jewish freedom is a long struggle but one which is very important.

Such a pity that struggle involves the ethnic cleansing of the native population from Palestine.

Then again, ethnic cleansing and colonialisation would be traits that you admire...

wes

Einhard wrote: »

Double standards by both sides really. When Iranian scientists are killed there are no shortage of people claiming, here and elsewhere, that Mossad were behind it. Indeed, you'll find claims to that effect on this very thread. People make claims without proof on both sides, so it's a bit rich to claim that double standards exist on one side and not the other.

I disagree, while there are double standards on both sides, in the case of attacks on Iran, it is imho far worse, especially in the media, where attacks on Iran are not called terrorism (Iranian scientists are described as being assasinated in the main), but if Iran is suspected, then the word terrorism is used. The general double standard against Iran is far more worse in the main stream of the West.

Einhard wrote: »

Having said all that, I think it's reasonable to suspect that this was likely an Iranian sponsered act in retaliation for what were most likely Israeli sponsored attack on Iranian scientists. Both should be condemned. The problem is that one side will condemn Iran exclusively, the other Israel, and both will complain of double standards!

Yes, they are the most likely culprits, as Israel are when it comes to attacks on Iran.

KeithAFC

Zebra3 wrote: »

Such a pity that struggle involves the ethnic cleansing of the native population from Palestine.

Then again, ethnic cleansing and colonialisation would be traits that you admire...

It has been discussed before but the Jewish people had been on that land first. The Jewish people would know all about being forced off land and ethnic cleansing. They want the land back and to maintain it.

wes

KeithAFC wrote: »

It has been discussed before but the Jewish people had been on that land first. The Jewish people would know all about being forced off land and ethnic cleansing. They want the land back and to maintain it.

This gives them no right to ethnically cleanse other people living there for 1000s of year, and who themselves are descended from Jews. Changing there religion and culture over time, doesn't give anyone the right to kick them out of there homes. What Israel done, and is still doing is nothing short of simple racism, and it is appaling that anyone would defende ethnic cleansing in this day and age.

Batsy

CardBordWindow wrote: »

Just the start of an excuse for another US-led invasion.

Hopefully that will happen. We need the US, Britain, France and other powerful nations to take action now. Something needs to be done about Iran and its despicable regime.

Batsy

wes wrote: »

This gives them no right to ethnically cleanse other people living there for 1000s of year, and who themselves are descended from Jews. Changing there religion and culture over time, doesn't give anyone the right to kick them out of there homes. What Israel done, and is still doing is nothing short of simple racism, and it is appaling that anyone would defende ethnic cleansing in this day and age.

It is the JEWS who have been living in the area where Israel is for thousands of years, not the Palestinians, not the Muslims.

It was the Jews who founded Jerusalem thousands of years before Islam was even founded. Not only that, but the ancestors of the Palestinians only arrived in the area a couple of hundred years ago.

Einhard

wes wrote: »

I disagree, while there are double standards on both sides, in the case of attacks on Iran, it is imho far worse, especially in the media, where attacks on Iran are not called terrorism (Iranian scientists are described as being assasinated in the main), but if Iran is suspected, then the word terrorism is used. The general double standard against Iran is far more worse in the main stream of the West.

As I said, double standards on both sides. One side will go for the jugular regarding Iranian actions, the other will do likewise regarding Israeli actions.

As an example, this is the first mention of the attacks on Israeli embassies that I've seen on boards, yet if you pop over to the politics forum, there are ample references to the assassination of Iranian scientists. Moreover, the same people who demand absolute proof for Iranian complicity have absolutely no problem discarding that requirement when it comes to assigning responsibility to Israel. it's a blatant double standard, and just because it's shared by both sides doesn't make it any less so.

KeithAFC

Batsy wrote: »

It is the JEWS who have been living in the area where Israel is for thousands of years, not the Palestinians, not the Muslims.

It was the Jews who founded Jerusalem thousands of years before Islam was even founded. Not only that, but the ancestors of the Palestinians only arrived in the area a couple of hundred years ago.

Exactly. This Palestinian cause is a weak cause because it has no solid foundations behind it.

Einhard

Batsy wrote: »

It is the JEWS who have been living in the area where Israel is for thousands of years, not the Palestinians, not the Muslims.

It was the Jews who founded Jerusalem thousands of years before Islam was even founded. Not only that, but the ancestors of the Palestinians only arrived in the area a couple of hundred years ago.

Eh, Jerusalem didn't originate as a Jewish city. It was resolutely pagan and polytheist for thousands of years before anyone even considered a single God called Yahweh.

Just because one once lived in a certain area doesn't mean that one has rights in perpetuity to that area. I can understand why the international community felt the need to establish a Jewish state, and why the Jews wanted one, but that doesn't lessen the fact that its creation was an injustice.

That's history though. We have to deal with things as they are now. Otherwise we'd be demanding not only the dismantling of Israel but also the expulsion of all whites from Australia.

Einhard

KeithAFC wrote: »

Exactly. This Palestinian cause is a weak cause because it has no solid foundations behind it.

Ah FFS Keith. Do you even engage your brain before you spout this nonsense? You claim that the Palestinians, living in the Levant for thousands of years, have no claim to the place, and yet trump the rights of Protestant Unions in the North- mere blow-ins relative to the Paelstinian settlement in Paelstine? Seriously, how can you hold two such contradictory views in your head at the same time without suffering migraines at the least?

Riddle101

WW3 blah blah blah.....

It's only inevitable that Iran and Isreal clash. Personally I would like to see it just be between Iran and Isreal, no allies involved.

imme

If Iran is as good at nuclear bomb making as they are at espionage I think we don't have too much to worry about.



Seriously though it is worrying that they are working to make a nuclear bomb (fact).

In such an unstable and volatile region this can't bode well.

KeithAFC

Einhard wrote: »

Ah FFS Keith. Do you even engage your brain before you spout this nonsense? You claim that the Palestinians, living in the Levant for thousands of years, have no claim to the place, and yet trumper the rights of Protestant Unions in the North, blow ins relative to the Paelstinian settlement in Paelstine? Seriously, how can you hold two such contradictory views in your head at the same time without suffering migraines at the least?

Different debate for a different thread Einhard. Lets try and keep this on topic.

The point Batsy made was very important in regards to the Palestine cause. I don't think we should derail the thread away from that point.

wes

Batsy wrote: »

It is the JEWS who have been living in the area where Israel is for thousands of years, not the Palestinians, not the Muslims.

Palestinians are descended from Jews. Genetic testing has proven this.

Batsy wrote: »

It was the Jews who founded Jerusalem thousands of years before Islam was even founded. Not only that, but the ancestors of the Palestinians only arrived in the area a couple of hundred years ago.

Islam is a religion, and like most Religions it looks for converts. So, Islam coming after the founding of Jerusalem doesn't matter, as the people living there could become Muslim long after.

Also, Palestinians are descended from Jews (and the various people who lived in that area):

DNA and genetic studies
--SNIP--
One DNA study by Nebel found genetic evidence in support of historical records that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".[110] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Muslim Palestinians and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, though with some significant differences that might be explainable by the geographical isolation of the Jews or by immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium.
[110]
--SNIP--

Either way there is still no excuse for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and I am amazed that anyone is actually defending ethnic cleansing.

tfitzgerald

Einhard wrote: »

Ah FFS Keith. Do you even engage your brain before you spout this nonsense? You claim that the Palestinians, living in the Levant for thousands of years, have no claim to the place, and yet trumper the rights of Protestant Unions in the North, blow ins relative to the Paelstinian settlement in Paelstine? Seriously, how can you hold two such contradictory views in your head at the same time without suffering migraines at the least?

I think Keith just got burnt:). We are going to wake up some day soon to find that Isreal has bombed the sh1t out of Iran and then we are all in trouble .

Batsy

The surnames of the Palestinians reflect that their ancestors only moved to the area from elsewhere only relatively recently. Palestinian surnames are the places where their ancestors came from:

"Khamis"= from Bahrain "Salem Hanna Khamis"
"al-ubayyidi" or "al-Obeidi"= from sudan "al-ubayyid"
"al-Faruqi"= Mosul iraq
"al-Araj" = Morocco,a member of the Saadi Dynasty "Hussein al-Araj"
"al-Lubnani" =the lebanese
"al-Mughrabi" = the Moroccan ("Maghreb" – meaning "West" in Arabic, and usually referring to North Africa or specifically to Morocco) ,"Dalal Mughrabi"
"al-Djazair"=the Algerian
"al-Qurashi"=saudi arabia "clan of Quraish"
"al-azd" =yemen "Azd tribe"
"al-Yamani"= the Yemeni "Issam Al Yamani"
"al-Afghani" = the Afghan
"Al-Sidawi" = from "Sidon" lebanon
"Al-fayyumi" = from "Faiyum" egypt
"al-Hijazi" or "Hijazi" = present-day saudi arabia "Ahlam Higazi, a "Palestinian" artist from Hebron"
"al-Hindi" =the Indian "Amin al-Hindi"
"al-Tamimi" or "Tamimi" = from the tribe or clan of Banu-Tamim "Azzam Tamimi"
"Hamati" = from syria ( HAMA city)
"Omayya" = from saudi arabia "Banu Omayya tribe" "Omayya Joha" "palestinian artist" "
"Othman" = turkey
"murad" =yemen "murad tribe"
"Alawi" = from syria (minority religious group in syria)
"Iraqi" =from Iraq.
"halabi" =from aleppo syria
"Dajani"= from saudi arabia
"Mattar" = from YEMEN (the village of BANI Mattar)
"al-baghdadi"= from bagdad iraq.
"Tarabulsi"= Tarabulus-Tripoli, Lebanon.
"Hourani" =Houran Syria.
"Zubeidi"= from iraq "Zubeidi tribe" "Zakaria Zubeidi"
"al-Husayni" =saudi arabia.
"Saudi" =Saudi Arabia.
"Metzarwah"=egypt.
"Barda­­­­­­­­­­­wil" ="salah bardawil" HAMAS legislator in gaza,egypt "bardawil lake" area
"nashashibi"= syria.
"Bushnak" =bosnia
"zoabi"= from iraq "Haneen Zoabi".
"Turki" =turkey "Daud Turki"
"al-Kurd" = kurdistan.
"Haddadins" = YEMEN descended from Ghassanid Christian Arabs.
"Arab Abu-Kishk" = Egypt.(Bedouins)
"Arab al shakirat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al zabidat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al aramsha" = Egypt (Bedouins)

The reason for all this is because there has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine. It wasn't that long ago that "Palestine" was part of Greater Syria.

However, prior to the current sovereign state of Israel, there have been two previous Israels in that area.

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

Zuheir Mohsen, March 1977

“Of all the Palestinian lies there is no lie greater or more crushing than that which calls for the establishment of a separate Palestinian state in the West Bank... Not since the time of Dr. Goebbels has there been a case in which continual repetition of a lie has borne such great fruits....”

– From “Palestinian Lies” in Haaretz, July 1976.

Incredibly, that was written by Amnon Rubenstein of the Meretz party back in the days when supporting a 'Palestinian' state was rightfully considered treason in Israel. But Rubenstein was correct. There is no such thing as a separate 'Palestinian' nation.

Remember Azmi Bishara, the 'Israeli Arab' politician who fled Israel when he was about to be indicted for treason for helping Hezbullah in the 2006 Second Lebanon War? Well, here he is on Israeli television in 1994.

Here's the full translation of what he said (translated by an Israeli in the comments, so the English isn't great)

"i dont think that there is palestinian nation

then he ask him "you dont think there is palestine?" and he answer: no i think there is arab nation i allways thought like that and i didnt change my mind, i dont think there is palestinian nation, i think it's colonial invention palestinian nation, when was palestinian people where is what *laughing* i think there is arab nation even if i am fighting against israel i didnt turn palestine.

Relying strictly on Arab sources, Martin Sherman writes that this is all part of a lie: The lie that there is a 'Palestinian nation.'

The partition of Palestine, in 1947, and the establishment of Israel are illegal and null and void, regardless of the passage of time... The claims of historic and spiritual ties between Jews and Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history or with true conception of what constitutes statehood.

– Articles 17 and 18 of the original Palestinian National Covenant (1964). (The same clauses appear almost verbatim as Clauses 19 and 20 in the current version. Both are posted at the website of the Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine at the UN.) This declaration, made long before any “occupation” or “settlements,” highlights that Arab enmity towards Israel is fueled by its being – not by its borders. It proves irrefutably that the establishment of a Palestinian state and the eradication of Jewish presence in Judea and Samaria will do nothing to attenuate the refusal to acknowledge the right of the Jews to a nation-state, whatever its frontiers – if any further proof was necessary after the 2005 Gaza debacle.

All of this should be borne in mind as September 23 approaches. For what we are about to witness at the UN is nothing less an endeavor at political alchemy – the conjuring up of a substantive political construct out of mere political myth; an attempt to produce a nation where the elements of nationhood do not exist; an effort to construct a state when the components of statehood are absent.

...

Not only do the Palestinians admit that they are not a discrete sociological entity, i.e., a people.

They also concede that as a political unit, i.e., a nation, their demands and aspirations as are neither genuine nor permanent.

Thus Muhsin candidly confessed: “It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate Palestinian identity. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel [sic].”

Doesn’t get much more explicit than that! Indeed the Palestinians not only affirm that their national demands are bogus, but that they are only a temporary instrumental ruse.

...

Article 16 of the original version of the Palestinian National sets out the desire of the people of Palestine, “who look forward to... restoring the legitimate situation to Palestine, establishing peace and security in its territory, and enabling its people to exercise national sovereignty...”

However, since the Covenant was adopted in 1964, well before Israel “occupied” a square inch of the “West Bank” or Gaza, the question is precisely what is meant by “its territory” in which the Palestinians were “looking forward...to exercise national sovereignty.” Indeed in Article 24, they state specifically what this territory did not include, and where they were not seeking to exercise “national sovereignty.”

In it they explicitly proclaim that they do not desire to “exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, [or] on the Gaza Strip.”

From this we learn two stunning facts. Not only did the Palestinians not claim the “West Bank” and Gaza as part of their homeland, but they specifically excluded them from it. Moreover, they explicitly acknowledged – and accepted –that the “West Bank” belonged to another sovereign entity, the Hashemite Kingdom.

There is thus not the slightest resemblance – indeed not even one square inch of overlap – between the territory claimed by the Palestinians as their “homeland” when they first formulated their national aspirations and the “homeland” allegedly envisaged/claimed today.

Indeed, the two visions of “homeland” territories are mutually exclusive.

Accordingly, it would seem that Jewish rule is far more central in defining the location of the Palestinian “homeland” than any “collective historical memory.”

For the Palestinians only incorporated the “West Bank” (and Gaza) in their territorial claims when they came under Israeli control – clearly vindicating the view that the concept of “Palestinian-ness” is a fabricated construct, conjured up to further the Arab quest to repudiate “Jewishness.”

Read the whole thing: http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=238146

Why should we give one square inch of the Holy Land to these stinking frauds?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/09/when-were-there-ever-any-palestinians.html

Einhard

KeithAFC wrote: »

Different debate for a different thread Einhard. Lets try and keep this on topic.

The point Batsy made was very important in regards to the Palestine cause. I don't think we should derail the thread away from that point.

No it's not a deifferent debate. You cannot logically claim that Unionists in the North have a claim to a land they settled hundreds of years ago, and deny the same right to the Palestinians, a people who were living in the Levant when the ancestors of many a Protestant Unionist was scratching about in the forests between the Weser and the Elbe!

Einhard

Batsy wrote: »

The surnames of the Palestinians reflect that their ancestors only moved to the area from elsewhere only relatively recently. Palestinian surnames are the places where their ancestors came from:

And the vast majority of Israelis living in the Middle East only moved there from somewhere else relatively recently.

Batsy

wes wrote: »

Palestinians are descended from Jews. Genetic testing has proven this.



Islam is a religion, and like most Religions it looks for converts. So, Islam coming after the founding of Jerusalem doesn't matter, as the people living there could become Muslim long after.

Also, Palestinians are descended from Jews (and the various people who lived in that area):



Either way there is still no excuse for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and I am amazed that anyone is actually defending ethnic cleansing.

I don't care what you say. There has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine.

KeithAFC

Einhard wrote: »

No it's not a deifferent debate. You cannot logically claim that Unionists in the North have a claim to a land they settled hundreds of years ago, and deny the same right to the Palestinians, a people who were living in the Levant when the ancestors of many a Protestant Unionist was scratching about in the forests between the Weser and the Elbe!

Like I said I don't think this thread should be allowed to get taken off topic because the argument is being lost on the pro Palestinian side. I won't discuss the constitutionalist question on this thread in regards to N.I.

Einhard

Batsy wrote: »

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=238146

Why should we give one square inch of the Holy Land to these stinking frauds?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/09/when-were-there-ever-any-palestinians.html

You know what, it's people like you on both sides that have exacerbated the situation in the region to the extent that compromise and peaceful co-existence now seem like alien concepts.

We're not "giving" the Holy Land to them- they have lived there for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

By your logic, we should demand all non-native Americans vacate that continent, and all Protestant Unions get the hell out of Northern Ireland.

Why do you have such an apparent hatred for the Palestinian people?

wes

Batsy wrote: »

The surnames of the Palestinians reflect that their ancestors only moved to the area from elsewhere only relatively recently. Palestinian surnames are the places where their ancestors came from:

No it doesn't. The genetic tests tell a different story. So unless you can refute them, then you claims are just fiction. Nothing in the article (from the hugely biased Jerusalem post btw) refutes the genetic evidence. So its very simple, unless you can provide proof that the genetic evidence is wrong, you are spouting racist fiction and nothing more.

**EDIT**
Posting an article that doesn't address the point I made at all, is nothing short of astonishing. My proof is based on genetics, and you didn't bother to address that point at all, and instead ignored it.
**END EDIT**

Batsy wrote: »

Why should we give one square inch of the Holy Land to these stinking frauds?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/09/when-were-there-ever-any-palestinians.html

So again defending ethnic cleansing. Nothing short of disgusting, and quite frankly you are no position to judge Iran or anyone else, considering you support of ethnic cleansing.

wes

Batsy wrote: »

I don't care what you say. There has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine.

Which doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing of the people living there, nor should that effect there rights. Again more excuses for racism and ethnic cleansing.

Einhard

KeithAFC wrote: »

Like I said I don't think this thread should be allowed to get taken off topic because the argument is being lost on the pro Palestinian side. I won't discuss the constitutionalist question on this thread in regards to N.I.

I'm pro- neither side. I've never heard the argument so perhaps you could present if for me? I promise that I'll engage with an open mind. I'm genuinely curious to know how you can reconcile two such apparently contradictory opinions.

If you continue to choose not to address the issue, I'll assume that you can't reconcile the two and your opinions are just thought up on the hoof, and probably therefore not worth of serious consideration.

Batsy

wes wrote: »

Which doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing of the people living there, nor should that effect there rights. Again more excuses for racism and ethnic cleansing.

Which group of people do you think has more rights and freedoms? Muslims living in Israel, or Jews living in Palestine?

I'd say it's the former.

If someone's being "racist" here it isn't the Israelis.

Einhard

Batsy wrote: »

I don't care what you say. There has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine.

There was never a sovereign state known as east Timor either. Should the world have used that rather inane and irrelevant fact to deny them freedom from an Indonesia which had a history of brutal oppression there?

Indeed, there was never a sovereign state known as Ireland until we won our independence. If only someone had told the Brits- they would have had an entirely legitimate reason not to negotiate or compromise!

Biggins

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong - I'm no expert in this topic so I'm not qualified to say "who threw the first proverbial stone!" - the fact is that if the Israelis think they have amassed enough belief to think that Iran is responsible for whatever, the one thing you can be sure of is that they WILL hit back.
There is no "if's" or "buts" about that.
Its just a case of how and when - and the Israelis are very good at playing waiting games when necessary.

wes

Batsy wrote: »

Which group of people do you think has more rights and freedoms? Muslims living in Israel, or Jews living in Palestine?

I'd say it's the former.

I'd say you delusional, as there is no Palestinian state (you said as much youreself earlier), and Israelis do have superior rights in the West Bank:
Rights group slams planned 'Israelis only' highway in West Bank

Also, Israel controls the West Bank, with the exception of giving the PA, what amounts to the power of a local authority in some limited areas. Israeli's living in the West Bank, live under Israeli law and not Palesitnian law, and are not governed by Palestinians. Simply put you claim is utterly ridiculous to the point, where you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and just seem to change the subject when shown to be wrong.

Batsy wrote: »

If someone's being "racist" here it isn't the Israelis.

There is certainly racism on both sides, but Israel is the occupying power, and to claim that Palestians are some how oppressing Jews is utterly lauaghable, and cleary show you have no idea what your talking about. Palestinains do no rule over any Jews, they don't even rule over themselves. You clearly have very little knowledge of the conflict imho.

I also notice you have yet to condemn the ethnic cleansing.....