DHL charged me Customs duty when they shouldnt have.

Hogzy

Hey guys. I bought shoes online from the USA. Total for the shoes was $150USD, Shipping was $70. Total paid came to €168.43 (under my credit card)

I know i have to pay VAT on anything above €22 and have to pay customs duty if my total adds up to €150 excluding shipping costs.

DHL have charged me customs duty @4% which works out at 7-8EUR. I called them up today and they said that there is nothing I can do about it and i have to pay it. I know its only a few Euro but its the princple of being blatently over charged that i dont like. DHL have basically said tough luck.

Who should i contact about this because it is an illegal charge. I am FULLY aware of my rights.

the_syco

Hogzy wrote: »

Who should i contact about this because it is an illegal charge. I am FULLY aware of my rights.

Contact Revenue. They charged DHL, who in turn are charging you. What rights do you speak of?

dudara

If DHL are refusing to refund you the duty portion, then contact the Revenue. DHL act as collections agents on their behalf.

rubadub

I am unsure about €150 thing not including post, I used to think it did exclude postage. But from revenue
www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/postal-guide.pdf

Customs Duty is normally calculated as a percentage of the value. The percentage varies depending on the type of goods and the country of origin. Customs Duty is charged on the price paid for the goods including local sales taxes plus postage, packaging and insurance costs.

I don't know if they changed it or something, to stop the old trick of having €1000 postage on a €1 TV trick.

Also from revenue...
http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1179.html

3. Consignments of Negligible Value

Consignments not exceeding an intrinsic value of €150 may be imported without payment of Customs Duty. (Intrinsic value is the value of the goods alone, and does not include insurance and freight). Consignments not exceeding a total customs value of €22 may be imported without payment of VAT. (Customs value is the value of the goods plus insurance and freight (which includes postage costs (CIF value)). However, it should be noted in particular that there is no relief (from Customs Duty, VAT or Excise duty) under this negligible value provision for importations of tobacco, tobacco products, alcohol products, perfumes or toilet waters irrespective of their value.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revenue.ie%2Fen%2Fabout%2Ffoi%2Fs16%2Fcustoms%2Fimport-export-policy%2Fcustoms-import-procedures-sections-10-13.pdf%3Fdownload%3Dtrue&ei=Wq47T4reCYS0hAfLxo3qCQ&usg=AFQjCNFQNqqnyn9ceUPloZSqalhVex1YwQ&sig2=FXK33t8iPtf0sCU-jJTFZA

10.4.3
Minimum Charge of Customs Duty
Where the Customs duty on goods contained in one consignment or parcel amounts to less than €10 the duty is to be waived.

OPs duty was below this

Hogzy

the_syco wrote: »

What rights do you speak of?

My basic constitutional right to property as contained under article 40.3 and 43 of the constitution where the state (or anybody for that matter) should not unjustly attack my right to property. Steming from that, refusing to release goods that belong to me because i am being forced to pay a charge which should not be owed. As is evident below your post (and above this post) there seems to be confusion as to whether the amount taxable includes or excludes the cost of shipping.

Since you asked. Those are the rights I speak of.

Thanks for the help Dudara & Rubadub. I might give Customs a call and see what they say. I have paid the charge anyway in the mean time. Like i said its only a few Euro, its not going to break the bank. Its the principle of the whole thing that bothers me.

seamus

rubadub wrote: »

I am unsure about €150 thing not including post, I used to think it did exclude postage. But from revenue
www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/postal-guide.pdf

I don't know if they changed it or something, to stop the old trick of having €1000 postage on a €1 TV trick.

Also from revenue...
http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1179.html

Just on that, it appears that while duty is only payable on goods valued over €150, when the duty is calculated it's based on the entire price paid for the item including shipping. Which seems a little unfair.

Steming from that, refusing to release goods that belong to me because i am being forced to pay a charge which should not be owed.

Afaik, in a legal sense the goods do not belong to you until they have been delivered. The goods belong to the carrier while they are in transit. So your constitutional rights are unaffected.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Firstly, you linking this to 40.3 or 43 is total BS. And you have your property surely as you have paid the duty and want a refund!

Secondly, duty is payable above €150 including freight/P&P, so you are due to pay it.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Hogzy

Finnley Shaggy Scum wrote: »

Firstly, you linking this to 40.3 or 43 is total BS. And you have your property surely as you have paid the duty and want a refund!

I would like to hear why you think article 40.3 and 43 does not apply in this sense, These articles are the only reference to protection of privately owned property so if there is hidden article somewhere in the constitution id like to know about it. Reply by PM to keep it off this thread because its off topic. Just to let you know i have a law I have been studying constitutional law for the passed 7 years of my life so i would consider myself to have a relatively good understanding of it. So i would like to hear why you think its BS. I await your PM.

seamus wrote: »

Afaik, in a legal sense the goods do not belong to you until they have been delivered. The goods belong to the carrier while they are in transit. So your constitutional rights are unaffected.

I paid money for the product and it was accepted and shipped. Therefore consideration has passed and the shop has carried out their side of the contract of sale. The courier never has ownership of property they transport. They might have possession but that is not ownership. I have full legal and equitable title to the goods. If I were to refuse to have the goods delivered then they would be returned to the US where i would loose all my money entirely. Therefore the most straight forward option was to have them delivered and fight the case later on.

I was essentially bullied into paying this extra money. There is absolutely no way to appeal it by DHL.

goldenhoarde

Maybe the currency conversion rate used by DHL was enough to bring it over as they would not be using the same rate as your CC provider

Hogzy

goldenhoarde wrote: »

Maybe the currency conversion rate used by DHL was enough to bring it over as they would not be using the same rate as your CC provider

Thats a fair enough point but the value excluding shipping is around €120. There is no way the calculations could be off by that much.

dudara

Hogzy wrote: »

I would like to hear why you think article 40.3 and 43 does not apply in this sense, These articles are the only reference to protection of privately owned property so if there is hidden article somewhere in the constitution id like to know about it. Reply by PM to keep it off this thread because its off topic. Just to let you know i have a law I have been studying constitutional law for the passed 7 years of my life so i would consider myself to have a relatively good understanding of it. So i would like to hear why you think its BS. I await your PM.

To argue that point, you will need to know what what point the title of the goods changed from Supplier to Customer. Generally, the change of title occurs at Point of Delivery, unless otherwise specified.

To be quite honest, arguing Constitutional Law is generally reserved for serious issues such as divorce, abortion & citizenship rights. Using it to argue about a parcel in DHL is demeaning. And it's going to annoy anyone with whom you are dealing.

It sounds like DHL made an error on this one - they used the P&P inclusive figure, when they shouldn't have.

Hogzy

dudara wrote: »

Using it to argue about a parcel in DHL is demeaning. And it's going to annoy anyone with whom you are dealing.

I totally agree with you, But i was asked what rights i was referring to by a poster above so felt obliged to respond. BTW Dudara. The constitution protects alot more than what you mentioned above. Owning private property is an inherent right that the Irish people have and its a key right in a democratic society. After all I am entitled to be protected from ANY unjust attack no matter how big or small. Of course im not going to be saying this to the DHL CS rep who I am talking to because I will come across as a know it all c*nt. I used to work in retail. I know people dont get paid enough to deal with those types.

It sounds like DHL made an error on this one - they used the P&P inclusive figure, when they shouldn't have.

Exactly. The problem is. DHL are telling me its Customs fault, and customs are telling me that because I paid DHL cash on delivery, i am entitled to a refund from them. Its a never ending circle of misery.

It just pissed me off because i knew i was being over charged when the DHL guy told me what i owed. They just didnt give a hoot that I was being overcharged.

dudara wrote: »

To argue that point, you will need to know what what point the title of the goods changed from Supplier to Customer. Generally, the change of title occurs at Point of Delivery, unless otherwise specified.

AFAIK if it is not covered in the T&C's of the sale then it will be the half way point between Vendors location and the Purchaser. So where ever is half way between Van Nuys. CA and Cork is the point at which title became mine (unless stated otherwise in the T&C's). DHL act as an Agent for the vendor. DHL NEVER have title. They only have possession. The vendor may have legal title up until the point at which I receive the goods (this is why if undelivered it is returned to vendor) but i still have full equitable title because I have paid for the goods.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Hogzy wrote: »

I would like to hear why you think article 40.3 and 43 does not apply in this sense, These articles are the only reference to protection of privately owned property so if there is hidden article somewhere in the constitution id like to know about it. Reply by PM to keep it off this thread because its off topic. Just to let you know i have a law I have been studying constitutional law for the passed 7 years of my life so i would consider myself to have a relatively good understanding of it. So i would like to hear why you think its BS. I await your PM.




I paid money for the product and it was accepted and shipped. Therefore consideration has passed and the shop has carried out their side of the contract of sale. The courier never has ownership of property they transport. They might have possession but that is not ownership. I have full legal and equitable title to the goods. If I were to refuse to have the goods delivered then they would be returned to the US where i would loose all my money entirely. Therefore the most straight forward option was to have them delivered and fight the case later on.

I was essentially bullied into paying this extra money. There is absolutely no way to appeal it by DHL.

Seamus answered it for you. Constitutional law is fine but study contract and property. Not your property when the duty was demanded.

Hogzy

Finnley Shaggy Scum wrote: »

Seamus answered it for you. Constitutional law is fine but study contract and property. Not your property when the duty was demanded.

Did you even read my post?

bren2002

Sounds to me like you need to get down to the small claims court.

Nonoperational

Over €8? That's an extreme course of action. I'd exhaust the DHL angle first anyway. The small claims court fee is €18. I understand it's a point of principle, but going to court over €8 is probably a waste of resources.

Hogzy

gpf101 wrote: »

Over €8? That's an extreme course of action. I'd exhaust the DHL angle first anyway. The small claims court fee is €18. I understand it's a point of principle, but going to court over €8 is probably a waste of resources.

I agree. Im not going to go that far obviously. I wont be doing much more than phone calls.

the groutch

gpf101 wrote: »

The small claims court fee is €18.

has it gone up from €15? a 20% increase?
time to move this to Rip Off Ireland forum

TMC99

When you do talk to DHL ask for a copy of the SAD. In box 37 they should be using a code of 4000 C07. The C07 is the important part - the customs system by default takes the duty irrespective of the value of the shipment - you need to claim the exemption (ie less than EUR150) by using the code C07 which I suspect DLH have failed to do.

(on a related issue, customs do not normally take amounts of duty under EUR10 under the De Minimis rule - so its strange that it took this - I would look for the SAD from DHL to confirm that they have actually paid this to customs rather than them calculating what they 'think' they would be charged)

The above is a bit technical - apologies - its a complicated area but the DHL guys should understand.

Nonoperational

Hogzy wrote: »

I agree. Im not going to go that far obviously. I wont be doing much more than phone calls.

But you are dead right to go after DHL for it. If it shouldn't have been taken it shouldn't have been taken.