Pat Kenny won't cut the grass

Mance Rayder

MickySticks wrote: »

The Army doing work? Not a hope.

What does one do in the army?

They fight the commies and terrorists in eye-rack!:pac:

hondasam

squod wrote: »

So you'd leave then. Is that the answer? I don't believe anyone would refuse to do it if it was scheduled like.

My boss could not ask me to do this, I'm not employed as a Gardener.
It would be unreasonable and totally out of the question.

holystungun9

kfallon wrote: »

Cutting the grass....the bane of my teenage years!!!

Can we get all those Spanish and Italian students to do it? At least in the Summer.

squod

hondasam wrote: »

My boss could not ask me to do this, I'm not employed as a Gardener.
It would be unreasonable and totally out of the question.

Seriously? I'm not a gardener either. I reckon I can manage a lawnmower without a degree in horticulture.

So MegaCorp buys over your job and your old boss is hit by a bus. hondasam is rostered in once a month for two hours grass cutting under the new lean system management have put in place.

You're saying you'd just up and leave?

hondasam

squod wrote: »

Seriously? I'm not a gardener either. I reckon I can manage a lawnmower without a degree in horticulture.

So MegaCorp buys over your job and your old boss is hit by a bus. hondasam is rostered in once a month for two hours grass cutting under the new lean system management have put in place.

You're saying you'd just up and leave?

No I would not leave, I would refuse to do the job I was not paid to do.

SafeSurfer

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

But that's what makes AH so entertaining:)

Anyhow I have little time for Pat Kenny. He's an overpaid condescending middle-class windbag who's living on a completely different planet to most ordinary people.

I would not categorise Pat Kenny as middle class any more than I would categorise Joe Duffy as working class. The condescending windbag stuff definitely. The strange thing is, Pat Kenny is one of the better "serious" broadcasters that we have in Ireland. Vinnie Brown is entertaining but almost a self parody at this stage. Miriam O' Callahan is pathetic at serious interviews.

squod

hondasam wrote: »

No I would not leave, I would refuse to do the job I was not paid to do.

Face a disciplinary over some grass cutting? C'mon.

sock puppet

squod wrote: »

Seriously? I'm not a gardener either. I reckon I can manage a lawnmower without a degree in horticulture.

So MegaCorp buys over your job and your old boss is hit by a bus. hondasam is rostered in once a month for two hours grass cutting under the new lean system management have put in place.

You're saying you'd just up and leave?

Why would a lean management team pay Hondasam, someone who I presume is working for more than minimum wage, minimum wage + x per hour to cut the grass when it could be done for just minimum wage? In the case of someone like Pat Kenny, you're paying something like 10 - 20 times the going rate for grass cutting.

The J Stands for Jay

jimthemental wrote: »

Isn't that basically the premise for Nationwide though except with an even more pompous presenter.

I just like the idea of forcing the Plank to live of a lawnmower.

LH Pathe

Pat Kenny would suck my ass sooner than cut the grass, I will lure him with a mooner then make him eat glass

squod

sock puppet wrote: »

Why would a lean management team pay Hondasam, someone who I presume is working for more than minimum wage, minimum wage + x per hour to cut the grass when it could be done for just minimum wage? In the case of someone like Pat Kenny, you're paying something like 10 - 20 times the going rate for grass cutting.

Process engineer saves hondsam half an hour a day. HR sees the changes and consults with management. Management take into consideration his long standing with the company and offer him a pay cut and reduced hours or doing something like cutting the grass. It happens like.

sock puppet

squod wrote: »

Process engineer saves hondsam half an hour a day. HR sees the changes and consults with management. Management take into consideration his long standing with the company and offer him a pay cut and reduced hours or doing something like cutting the grass. It happens like.

But then the management have spent a lot of money identifying potential ways to save money on labour... and they've decided not to realise those savings.

squod

sock puppet wrote: »

But then the management have spent a lot of money identifying potential ways to save money on labour... and they've decided not to realise those savings.

Yep. They've let hondasam off the hook. Lucky break for him or does he walk off in disgust? How about you? If you were in his hypothetical boots?

marketty

sock puppet wrote: »

Why would a lean management team pay Hondasam, someone who I presume is working for more than minimum wage, minimum wage + x per hour to cut the grass when it could be done for just minimum wage? In the case of someone like Pat Kenny, you're paying something like 10 - 20 times the going rate for grass cutting.

This is a good point.
Once again the army is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Contract it in, they're lazy and sit around all day doing nothing.
Go out and do it themselves (which they absolutely would do if they were told to by the powers that be) and everyone would be saying the Irish army is a joke they drive lawn mowers instead of tanks why are we paying them minimum wage+x and a pension to cut grass.
Also have you people seen the curragh camp? The place is massive I'd say it takes a few guys working full time to keep the place in order gardening wise. Hardly the best use of limited personnel numbers for the army.

Haelium

Why exactly do they need to cut the grass at all? I'm not suggesting that they don't need to, but I wonder why they do?

hondasam

squod wrote: »

Face a disciplinary over some grass cutting? C'mon.

why would I face a disciplinary hearing? You seem to think my boss can just decide to change what I'm doing on a whim. This I assure you is not how it works.

Hondasam is female.

marketty

hondasam wrote: »

why would I face a disciplinary hearing? You seem to think my boss can just decide to change what I'm doing on a whim. This I assure you is not how it works.

Hondasam is female.

Do you work in the public service?
It seems most people on boards expect anyone who does to just shut up and do what their told 'sure you're lucky to have a job' and so on

hidinginthebush

Sure if pat cut the grass at Rte he'd probably end up claiming the land for himself :pac:

hondasam

marketty wrote: »

Do you work in the public service?
It seems most people on boards expect anyone who does to just shut up and do what their told 'sure you're lucky to have a job' and so on

Yes I work in the PS.

staker

*gets popcorn*

hondasam

staker wrote: »

*gets popcorn*

Hope you have enough for everyone. Can of coke as well please.

Judgement Day

Feeona wrote: »

Pat Kenny is an idiot. A broadcaster who thinks he knows how to do everyone else's jobs without any experience or knowledge of said jobs.

Good to see the guest showing him up on his self-righteousness.

Can't stand pompous Pat but he has a point - cutting grass isn't rocket science and it would be good exercise for some of the desk jockeys in the army. It's reaching the stage where if there's a war they'll be looking for tenders for people to do the fighting. :rolleyes:

44leto

I wouldn't expect ourrrr Patrick to cut the grass up at Montrose, he is far to regally important, what would we do without him.

I actually wouldn't mind a well paying grass cutting job like those corpo/council lads that keep our parks beautiful, out in the open and a bit of satisfacting at the end of the day. Rather then my life draining, monotonous and soul destroying excuse of a job I have.

I really wanted to be A Lumberjack.

squod

hondasam wrote: »

why would I face a disciplinary hearing? You seem to think my boss can just decide to change what I'm doing on a whim. This I assure you is not how it works.

Hondasam is female.

Not on a whim hondasam. As I said........

Process engineer saves hondsam half an hour a day. HR sees the changes and consults with management. Management take into consideration his long standing with the company and offer him a pay cut and reduced hours or doing something like cutting the grass. It happens like.

I presume the PS have process engineers, human resources departments and management teams. Or are PS workers somehow exempt from all of these things?

staker

hondasam wrote: »

Hope you have enough for everyone. Can of coke as well please.

It's only gonna go one way, BISH BASH BOSH.

sh1tstirrer

Get the army to cut their grass then get them to drop into RTE and make the plank cut the rte's grass at gunpoint even better make him cut it with a push mower, one of the old type that are ground driven and 1ft cutting width The plank might go some way to earning a fraction of his ridiculous wages.

hondasam

squod wrote: »

Not on a whim hondasam. As I said........



I presume the PS have process engineers, human resources departments and management teams. Or are PS workers somehow exempt from all of these things?

I go to work, do the job I'm paid to do and I let everyone else do their jobs.
This system works for me.

squod

hondasam wrote: »

I go to work, do the job I'm paid to do and I let everyone else do their jobs.
This system works for me.

Not having a go hondasam. It is (in my view) unreasonable to refuse some scheduled work if it's deemed by the management to be beneficial to the employer. Even if it means cutting the grass now and then.

hondasam wrote: »

Why would I want to cut the grass where I work it's not what I'm paid to do.
People on the dole on the other hand are paid to sit at home scratching let them do it.

I don't follow the logic of that post is all I'm saying. I've never experienced this kind of thinking before. Generally if I'm asked to do something, I'll go do it. I'd expect others would do likewise, within reason.

PhlegmyMoses

squod wrote: »

I don't follow the logic of that post is all I'm saying. I've never experienced this kind of thinking before. Generally if I'm asked to do something, I'll go do it. I'd expect others would do likewise, within reason.

Er, loads of people would refuse to do certain work if it fell outside their contract boundaries.

Topper Harley

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Pat posed the question. ''Why wouldn't the soldiers cut the grass themselves''. His guest replied ''would you cut the grass here at RTE?''

Of course he said no, that he had other things to do.

Feeona wrote: »

Pat Kenny is an idiot. A broadcaster who thinks he knows how to do everyone else's jobs without any experience or knowledge of said jobs.

Good to see the guest showing him up on his self-righteousness.

I don't listen to his radio show but I've seen Frontline a bit and he doesn't some across as self-righteous on that. But try to keep in mind that Pat Kenny is a journalist and it's his job to ask such questions, so that the interviewee can answer and inform the listening public of their reason for hiring contractors.

ballsymchugh wrote: »

pat kenny wouldn't cut the grass because there'd need to be a risk assessment done first, can't have RTE's prize star pouring petrol into a lawnmower!

So if Pat Kenny starts cutting RTE's grass, what will the groundskeeping staff do? Present a radio show?

squod wrote: »

So if the boss asked you to do it you'd object? Say the rostering system puts you in for grass cutting between 10am and 1 pm next Tuesday. What would you do?

Don't know about you Squod, but I've got a job specification in my contract which clearly defines my duties. If I was asked to cut the grass I wouldn't have a problem doing it except for the fact that I'd be taking someone else's job.

squod

Topper Harley wrote: »

. If I was asked to cut the grass I wouldn't have a problem doing it except for the fact that I'd be taking someone else's job.

Which is a fair point. Bearing in mind times are tight and as I've outline it's either reduced hours and a pay cut or some grass cutting. I'll cut grass.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Er, loads of people would refuse to do certain work if it fell outside their contract boundaries.

Contracts get changed, processes improve, budgets generally call the shots and not people.

hondasam

squod wrote: »

Not having a go hondasam. It is (in my view) unreasonable to refuse some scheduled work if it's deemed by the management to be beneficial to the employer. Even if it means cutting the grass now and then.




I don't follow the logic of that post is all I'm saying. I've never experienced this kind of thinking before. Generally if I'm asked to do something, I'll go do it. I'd expect others would do likewise, within reason.

If I'm asked to do something I will oblige if it suits me and only if I want to.
Under no circumstances would I ever go out and cut the grass at work.
This is not the job I was employed to do and no where in my contract does it state I have to do what ever job my manager decides on a whim, be it for the good of the company or not.

squod

hondasam wrote: »

If I'm asked to do something I will oblige if it suits me and only if I want to.
Under no circumstances would I ever go out and cut the grass at work.
This is not the job I was employed to do and no where in my contract does it state I have to do what ever job my manager decides on a whim, be it for the good of the company or not.

This is extraordinary. Are you serious like?

Topper Harley

squod wrote: »

Which is a fair point. Bearing in mind times are tight and as I've outline it's either reduced hours and a pay cut or some grass cutting. I'll cut grass.

By the way, you're welcome to cut the grass in my garden and I won't reduce your working hours or cut your pay. Everybody wins.

hondasam

squod wrote: »

This is extraordinary. Are you serious like?

Yes of course I'm serious, why wouldn't I be.
what do you work at? are you willing to be told to do just anything?

squod

hondasam wrote: »

Yes of course I'm serious, why wouldn't I be.
what do you work at? are you willing to be told to do just anything?

Of course not. But I think everyone accepts that work progresses like. The hypothetical point I put was this.....

squod wrote: »

So MegaCorp buys over your job and your old boss is hit by a bus. hondasam is rostered in once a month for two hours grass cutting under the new lean system management have put in place.
.......................................................................................................................................
Process engineer saves hondsam half an hour a day. HR sees the changes and consults with management. Management take into consideration his long standing with the company and offer him a pay cut and reduced hours or doing something like cutting the grass. It happens like.

I just don't understand your objection in this hypothetical situation.

Doc

squod in your hypothetical point you are taking a skilled person and asking them to do manual labor with no incentive for them to do so other then it would be good for the company. If it was me I would also say no.

I don’t work for the good of the company I work for a pay check and because I like the type of work I do. My contract sets out the job I am employed to do and I do it. Recently my boss tried to change my contract because he wanted to change my working conditions and I said no.

He employed me to do a job and I will do that job but he did not buy a slave to do whatever he wants me to do which is why I have a contract with him.

Topper Harley

squod wrote: »

Of course not. But I think everyone accepts that work progresses like. The hypothetical point I put was this.....

Not everyone. That's very much a Japanese philosophy where there's a collectivist culture. In Ireland people focus more on their own self-interest and rather than do what is best for their employer (and possibly themselves in the long run), they will join a union and ensure that their pay and conditions don't get unfavourably altered, which isn't necessarily wrong.

Stereomaniac

I'd do anything for money.

squod

Topper Harley wrote: »

That's very much a Japanese philosophy

No Topper, I've been working for these kinds of companies in Ireland since 1991.

Topper Harley wrote: »

In Ireland people focus more on their own self-interest and rather than do what is best for their employer (and possibly themselves in the long run), they will join a union and ensure that their pay and conditions don't get unfavourably altered, which isn't necessarily wrong.

But not necessarily right. There'd be no point in having any management if staff could decide willy nilly what they want to do.

Doc wrote: »

squod in your hypothetical point you are taking a skilled person and asking them to do manual labor with no incentive for them to do so other then it would be good for the company.

No. My point was one of extremes like. But facing a pay cut or cutting grass, I'd cut grass.

hondasam

squod wrote: »

I just don't understand your objection in this hypothetical situation.

My objection is normal imo, if I was prepared to do this what else would my boss expect me to do, clean his car, wash the windows, make his tea.
I do the job I applied for, that is the job I'm paid to do.

Doc

squod wrote: »

No. My point was one of extremes like. But facing a pay cut or cutting grass, I'd cut grass.

So what if it wasn’t cutting the grass what if it was cleaning out septic tanks or tarring a roof or washing your boss’s feet? At what point do you draw the line.

I am not a slave I am an employee and I do the job I was paid to do. Sure sometimes I will go above and beyond what is specifically in my job description but I would not let myself be forced to do so all the time and I can never understand people that do.

My boss dose not employee me out of the goodness of his heart he did it because I make his business money and this is the reason why anyone is generally employed. He can ask me to do other work but there is no reason why I should say yes if it falls outside my job description.

Topper Harley

squod wrote: »

No Topper, I've been working for these kinds of companies in Ireland since 1991.

I don't have the knowledge or experience to say definitively but I imagine that companies like these are in the minority.

squod wrote: »

But not necessarily right. There'd be no point in having any management if staff could decide willy nilly what they want to do.

Quite right, but staff have to have some level of security or management could potentially abuse their position. They can let off half their staff and have the other half take on the extra workload for no extra pay 'for the good of the company', while they keep their jobs and maintain their massive salaries. Then the company ends up with too many chiefs and not enough Indians, of which there plenty in Ireland and I do have experience of this.

gerryo777

hondasam wrote: »

Why would I want to cut the grass where I work it's not what I'm paid to do.
People on the dole on the other hand are paid to sit at home scratching let them do it.

Have people on the dole got fleas now! It gets better.
hondasam has a job in our brilliant public sector,sure isn't working in the PS only a job for people who wouldn't get a job in the private sector (the real world) and would otherwise be on the dole themselves....

hondasam

gerryo777 wrote: »

Have people on the dole got fleas now! It gets better.
hondasam has a job in our brilliant public sector,sure isn't working in the PS only a job for people who wouldn't get a job in the private sector (the real world) and would otherwise be on the dole themselves....

fyi hondasam has worked in the private sector and she also lives in the real world. Don't bother having a dig at me it will go right over my head.
I will not apologise for having a job, a job I got long before the recession. As for the PS it's not all it's cracked up to be, believe me.

ascanbe

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Bollox.
Of course they should cut the fúcking grass themselves. What exactly do they do all day? It's not like we're at war, or going to be - what do the 8000 or so (i think) soldiers do all day, that has them so busy that a handfull of them can't spend an hour or two on a lawnmower?

I'm not in the army, so i don't know exactly what they do all day.
But, our country sees fit to maintain an army and, presumably, they do what they signed up to do/what they were told the job would entail when they decided to join, in the hours they are paid to work.
This obviously didn't include 'cutting the grass' around army bases.
Do you propose they do it in their free time?
They have lives and family's outside of their jobs just like Pat Kenny.
So it's telling that someone like him would demean other professionals, and question the usefulness of what they currently do, by opining that they should do work outside their remit in order to cut costs, and entirely legitimate for someone to ask him if he would be prepared to do/why he isn't doing the same.

gerryo777

hondasam wrote: »

fyi hondasam has worked in the private sector and she also lives in the real world. Don't bother having a dig at me it will go right over my head.
I will not apologise for having a job, a job I got long before the recession. As for the PS it's not all it's cracked up to be, believe me.

Your comment about people on the dole sitting at home scratching really pissed me off. Several of my friends with families to rear have lost their jobs and are really struggling to keep things together. They're not at home scratching themselves.
BTW, I wasn't having a go at people at the lower level in the PS.

Topper Harley

gerryo777 wrote: »

Your comment about people on the dole sitting at home scratching really pissed me off. Several of my friends with families to rear have lost their jobs and are really struggling to keep things together. They're not at home scratching themselves.
BTW, I wasn't having a go at people at the lower level in the PS.

Hondasam had a point though. While not having a go at people on the dole (and I know some too), they could be doing something for their welfare payment (and gain some experience) rather than people with jobs taking on extra tasks outside of their job for no extra pay, some of who are also struggling to keep things together. And keep in mind that not all people on the dole are real job seekers, there are some scroungers/fraudsters out there too.

In theory that is what the National Internship Scheme is but I'm not sure if it's working out as planned.

hondasam

gerryo777 wrote: »

Your comment about people on the dole sitting at home scratching really pissed me off. Several of my friends with families to rear have lost their jobs and are really struggling to keep things together. They're not at home scratching themselves.
BTW, I wasn't having a go at people at the lower level in the PS.

This also pisses of people who work in the PS, the general attitude is we are all over paid and sit around all day doing fcuk all. Of course some do on both sides.

billybudd

Topper Harley wrote: »

Hondasam had a point though. While not having a go at people on the dole (and I know some too), they could be doing something for their welfare payment (and gain some experience) rather than people with jobs taking on extra tasks outside of their job for no extra pay, some of who are also struggling to keep things together. And keep in mind that not all people on the dole are real job seekers, there are some scroungers/fraudsters out there too.

In theory that is what the National Internship Scheme is but I'm not sure if it's working out as planned.

As has been discussed several times the system is the one that stiffles the unemployed, the ones who want to contribute that is, to lazily say they sit at home scratching is just pompous.