Pat Kenny won't cut the grass

gerryo777

hondasam wrote: »

This also pisses of people who work in the PS, the general attitude is we are all over paid and sit around all day doing fcuk all. Of course some do on both sides.

Quits?;)

Topper Harley

billybudd wrote: »

to lazily say they sit at home scratching is just pompous.

Maybe so, but in this case I think it was just an off the cuff retort rather than a deliberate accusation. There are no pompous people in AH.

marketty

ascanbe wrote: »

I'm not in the army, so i don't know exactly what they do all day.
But, our country sees fit to maintain an army and, presumably, they do what they signed up to do/what they were told the job would entail when they decided to join, in the hours they are paid to work.
This obviously didn't include 'cutting the grass' around army bases.
Do you propose they do it in their free time?
They have lives and family's outside of their jobs just like Pat Kenny.
So it's telling that someone like him would demean other professionals, and question the usefulness of what they currently do, by opining that they should do work outside their remit in order to cut costs, and entirely legitimate for someone to ask him if he would be prepared to do/why he isn't doing the same.

Your typical private in the army is not refusing to do this the way a teacher, guard, nurse or anyone else in the PS would be able to refuse. It's the army, they follow orders. The powers that be have decided (correctly in my opinion) that cutting grass would be a waste of the army's limited personnel resources. If they were told to do it they'd do it, the same way they do every other thing we ask of them

Phill Ewinn

Topper Harley wrote: »

I don't have the knowledge or experience to say definitively but I imagine that companies like these are in the minority.

I'd say they're in the majority. Fast food restaraunts, banks, factories, some supermarkets, some builders.......

Ever watched a formula 1 GP? I always thought that this Croke park agreement was supposed to get the PS up to speed with the rest of us. After reading back through the thread I serious think I've been decieved.

Sykk

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Bollox.
Of course they should cut the fúcking grass themselves. What exactly do they do all day? It's not like we're at war, or going to be - what do the 8000 or so (i think) soldiers do all day, that has them so busy that a handfull of them can't spend an hour or two on a lawnmower?

You know soldiers aren't just braindead people with guns? These people have professions within the army.

Lets say you're an engineer working for a company and they turn around and ask you to cut the grass. What would your response be?

gerryo777

This is the same army that sued the state for any amount of money over deafness claims from using their guns and in other cases deafness claims for playing in the army band.
Cost to the state? Over €321 million.
Imagine joining an army and then complaining about the noise of the guns or the musical instrument you were playing.
The Irish army is a joke!

Paparazzo

A lot of hate for Pat Kenny here. I think the idiot who answered his question with the stupidest question ever deserves it instead.

Gophur

The Army service their own vehicles and cook their own food. Should these jobs be contracted out too?

Anyone old enough to remember the Don Tidy kidnap will remember the Army wanted over-time payments from doing some actual "armying"! When they were actually called out to do what they have been paid to do, they wanted extra money.

The Irish Army costs as much, if not more, to run, than the Gardai.

gerryo777

Gophur wrote: »

The Army service their own vehicles and cook their own food. Should these jobs be contracted out too?

Anyone old enough to remember the Don Tidy kidnap will remember the Army wanted over-time payments from doing some actual "armying"! When they were actually called out to do what they have been paid to do, they wanted extra money.

The Irish Army costs as much, if not more, to run, than the Gardai.

They were able to collect bins during the bin strike of the 80's

marketty

Gophur wrote: »

The Irish Army costs as much, if not more, to run, than the Gardai.

Completely wrong. Look at the costs for each service for the queens visit.

marketty

Gophur wrote: »

The Army service their own vehicles and cook their own food. Should these jobs be contracted out too?

These are skilled jobs that people in the army are trained and paid to do, at a lower cost than contracting them out. Training someone in the army and paying them above minimum wage, providing medical care pension etc and then putting them to work cutting grass makes no sense when you can contract it out for a much lower cost

Gophur

marketty wrote: »

........ Look at the costs for each service for the queens visit.

Why?

marketty

gerryo777 wrote: »

This is the same army that sued the state for any amount of money over deafness claims from using their guns and in other cases deafness claims for playing in the army band.
Cost to the state? Over €321 million.
Imagine joining an army and then complaining about the noise of the guns or the musical instrument you were playing.

First off its not the same army, those guys were discharged as they did not meet the medical standard, due to deafness. So it's a 'different' army now. The state was negligent towards those soldiers as it ordered them to carry out certain tasks without taking reasonable precautions to protect them from unnecessary harm. Nowadays soldiers are provided with hearing protection and if they don't use it it's their own fault.
Just because they joined the army doesn't mean they should be harmed by their working environment needlessly during peacetime.
Using your logic:
Imagine working on a building site and complaining about falling off faulty scaffolding.

Gophur

Exact figures, from Budget 2012

Garda Siochana will cost €1.425b
Defence forces will cost €892m

And we need contractors to cut their grass!

marketty

Gophur wrote: »

Why?

Because both forces mounted massive security operations involving huge numbers of their personnel, the difference in the cost was enormous due to Gardai being paid overtime, accommodated in hotels etc. which soldiers neither looked for nor received.
I'm not Garda bashing either I'm just saying its ridiculous to say the army costs as much as the gardai

Gophur

I've clarified the exact costs of both bodies.

The value of each is a separate debate.

sbsquarepants

Cian A wrote: »

Pat Kenny doesn't even cut his own grass.
I know because I've hired lawnmowers out to his gardener before.

What sort of shoddy "gardener" doesn't own a lawnmower?

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Er, loads of people would refuse to do certain work if it fell outside their contract boundaries.

I believe the colloquial term for these people is "public service employees" The "service" is, of course, sarcastic.

Sykk wrote: »

You know soldiers aren't just braindead people with guns? These people have professions within the army.

Lets say you're an engineer working for a company and they turn around and ask you to cut the grass. What would your response be?

My response would be, maybe it would be a better use of resources to get a youngfella or a trainee to do it and i can carry on engineering. Surely out of the almost 9000 soldiers, quite a few are not skilled engineers or professionals of any description. Also it's not like the grass needs to be cut every hour on the hour.
Barring that, i would have no problem cutting the grass if the grass needed cutting. In my job here the storeman comes in every second saturday or so and cuts the grass as needed - when he was out sick i saw the production director do it once or twice. I've never done it myself but not because it's not my job, i just haven't done it. At no stage was it ever considered to hire a gardener.
The reason? Because, as a private company, we operate in the real world and employees are expected to do whatever work requires doing wherever feasible- not to pick up the phone and ring someone else to do it!

sbsquarepants

gerryo777 wrote: »

hondasam has a job in our brilliant public sector,....

I often wondered where the time for the 1000+ posts per month came from. I actually assumed either the dole or a student, no one else has that amount of free time..........except that is.......

donalg1

gerryo777 wrote: »

hondasam wrote: »

Why would I want to cut the grass where I work it's not what I'm paid to do.
People on the dole on the other hand are paid to sit at home scratching let them do it.

Have people on the dole got fleas now! It gets better.
hondasam has a job in our brilliant public sector,sure isn't working in the PS only a job for people who wouldn't get a job in the private sector (the real world) and would otherwise be on the dole themselves....

Most ignorant and ridiculous post I have ever read

The Snipe

Would making them cut the grass not lose jobs in the private sector for those who do it?

Ah nuts

Not to worry Joe Duffy will do it on Friday for a fiver. Hope the weather is dry for him.

gerryo777

donalg1 wrote: »

Most ignorant and ridiculous post I have ever read

It would be to you, wouldn't it.
Thank God for the ignore list.

ScumLord

marketty wrote: »

These are skilled jobs that people in the army are trained and paid to do, at a lower cost than contracting them out. Training someone in the army and paying them above minimum wage, providing medical care pension etc and then putting them to work cutting grass makes no sense when you can contract it out for a much lower cost

But the thing is the army isn't all call all the time are they, they would have the time to do this. I could accept that guards would be to busy to make time for this kind of work but I don't think we're at war so I'm assuming there;s a few soldiers sitting around looking for something to do.

donalg1

gerryo777 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Most ignorant and ridiculous post I have ever read

It would be to you, wouldn't it.
Thank God for the ignore list.

Not just to me though Gerry anyone with half a brain would agree hence your disagreement.

suicide_circus

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Bollox.
Of course they should cut the fúcking grass themselves. What exactly do they do all day? It's not like we're at war, or going to be - what do the 8000 or so (i think) soldiers do all day, that has them so busy that a handfull of them can't spend an hour or two on a lawnmower?

Youre not wrong there

suicide_circus

Sykk wrote: »

You know soldiers aren't just braindead people with guns? These people have professions within the army.

Lets say you're an engineer working for a company and they turn around and ask you to cut the grass. What would your response be?

Their not all professionals, get a few cadets on maintenance detail or the like. The army should be as self sufficient as possible given they are vastly over staffed imo. Numbers in the DF need to be rationalised with an increase in naval service numbers and massive investment in the fleet - we are a ****ing island!!!!!

Phill Ewinn

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Barring that, i would have no problem cutting the grass if the grass needed cutting. In my job here the storeman comes in every second saturday or so and cuts the grass as needed - when he was out sick i saw the production director do it once or twice. I've never done it myself but not because it's not my job, i just haven't done it. At no stage was it ever considered to hire a gardener.
The reason? Because, as a private company, we operate in the real world and employees are expected to do whatever work requires doing wherever feasible- not to pick up the phone and ring someone else to do it!

It's the same in the rest of the known universe. There's some parallel universe out there where mangement aren't nessisary. Progress never happens and the spirit of team work doesn't exist.

Judgement Day

The logical progression of the army being unable to cut their own grass has already been experienced by the British Army in the bombing of their base at Deal, Germany ENGLAND in 1989 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deal_barracks_bombing - where the army had some of their security provided by a private company. Truly the lunatics have taken over when the sort of nonsense goes on - probably recommended by some 'fat cat' consultants hired by the MOD. :rolleyes:

I heard an apologist for the army (Mr.Power) on Newstalk this morning and when Yates questioned him about what the army actually do, wheeled out all the usual crap about Guarding Prison (s), Cash in Transit duties, Bomb squad etc. but of course wasn't asked what percentage of the army are trained for/involved in this sort of work. I should imagine the number involved in the bomb squad would be absolutely minisicule. As I posted in another thread Ireland needs to rethink whether it needs an army at all or would it be better to beef up the gardai instead to deal with our out of control crime problem.

Luap

Its a bit ironic as Kenny tried to steal a load of grass of a old man years ago.


~Good times.

Poccington

There is some amount of ****e being posted in this thread.

• The DF doesn't have a union.
• The DF's vehicle maintenance is carried out by qualified members of the DF.
• To try and pin the blame on the cost of the security of the Queen's visit on the DF is utterly laughable.
• There's not over 8,000 troops sitting around all day doing nothing. Personally, I've been away from home for the past 2 weeks, I'm working in my normal place of employment this week, then gone again for 3 weeks. Obviously, I can't complain because it's what I signed up for but I certainly don't sit around all day doing **** all.
• We cook our own food, service our own vehicles, maintain our own equipment, do our own medical work, carry out our own building work unless it's on a major scale, look after our own bin collection, recycling etc. this concept that the DF sends out tenders for everything is bollocks.

This thing of having civilians cutting the grass in DF locations didn't come from some Private turning around and saying "That's not my job, I'm not doing that" because trust me, once you've cleaned toilets, swept paths, shovelled snow off footpaths etc. being told to cut the grass really isn't a big deal. I've seen soldiers cutting grass plenty of times before.

It came from a decision made most likely, by big dogs in the DoD and DF. If I was to walk into work tomorrow and told to cut the grass, I'd do it. It's a bit of grass.

Anyway, back to the ranting and the raving you all go.

marketty

Poccington I'd thank that twice if I could

boobar

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

The minister for procurement was on Pat Kennys show talking about contractors cutting the grass for the Irish army.

Pat posed the question. ''Why wouldn't the soldiers cut the grass themselves''. His guest replied ''would you cut the grass here at RTE?''

Of course he said no, that he had other things to do.

So AH should RTE or PS workers be asked to cut grass, paint walls or clean up in their own offices?
Do we have to contract every little job out to the private sector?

What do you think?

If it's part of their job, then yes.

If it's not part of their job, then no.

It doesn't matter whether it's public or private sector. If you're in the private sector working as a software engineer, you do that work. If you're in the public sector working as a teacher you teach.

If Pat Kenny chooses to focus his attention on such non issues, then he's a right knobhead.

Feeona

boobar wrote: »

If Pat Kenny chooses to focus his attention on such non issues, then he's a right knobhead.

:pac:

Must be in his contract.

tayto lover

Was Pat not cutting his neighbour's grass for awhile up on the hill ?

boobar

Feeona wrote: »

:pac:

Must be in his contract.

Very good it's in the job description.

lividduck

Judgement Day wrote: »

The logical progression of the army being unable to cut their own grass has already been experienced by the British Army in the bombing of their base at Deal, Germany in 1989 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deal_barracks_bombing - where the army had some of their security provided by a private company. Truly the lunatics have taken over when the sort of nonsense goes on - probably recommended by some 'fat cat' consultants hired by the MOD. :rolleyes:

I heard an apologist for the army (Mr.Power) on Newstalk this morning and when Yates questioned him about what the army actually do, wheeled out all the usual crap about Guarding Prison (s), Cash in Transit duties, Bomb squad etc. but of course wasn't asked what percentage of the army are trained for/involved in this sort of work. I should imagine the number involved in the bomb squad would be absolutely minisicule. As I posted in another thread Ireland needs to rethink whether it needs an army at all or would it be better to beef up the gardai instead to deal with our out of control crime problem.

Idiot.
Check exactly where deal is,Kent is a long way from Germany!

SafeSurfer

Poccington wrote: »

There is some amount of ****e being posted in this thread.

• The DF doesn't have a union.
• The DF's vehicle maintenance is carried out by qualified members of the DF.
• To try and pin the blame on the cost of the security of the Queen's visit on the DF is utterly laughable.
• There's not over 8,000 troops sitting around all day doing nothing. Personally, I've been away from home for the past 2 weeks, I'm working in my normal place of employment this week, then gone again for 3 weeks. Obviously, I can't complain because it's what I signed up for but I certainly don't sit around all day doing **** all.
• We cook our own food, service our own vehicles, maintain our own equipment, do our own medical work, carry out our own building work unless it's on a major scale, look after our own bin collection, recycling etc. this concept that the DF sends out tenders for everything is bollocks.

So the army cook their own food, but who serves it? In my local barracks outside staff are employed to serve the food in the mess.

aujopimur

These days, who peels the spuds in the army ?

Judgement Day

lividduck wrote: »

Idiot.
Check exactly where deal is,Kent is a long way from Germany!

Thanks for your incisive comment - I was thinking of an IRA attack in Germany http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/23/newsid_4287000/4287075.stm while typing the post hence the gremlin and I'm well aware of Deal's location as I was born less than 40 miles away.

PS No need to resort to name calling either - how about addressing the issue instead.

Poccington

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So the army cook their own food, but who serves it? In my local barracks outside staff are employed to serve the food in the mess.

What barracks is your local one?

I've yet to be in a barracks where food is "served" by anyone other than the chefs in the cookhouse. You walk up with your tray to the food area, chef gives you your food options, you tell him which you want and then you get handed a plate of food.

Simples.

Wicklowrider

What do you think will happen if a soldier refuses to cut the grass?
Its not like a civvy job where you get a verbal warning. The soldier faces being locked up without pay. At the very least he'd be fined and the charge noted on his record and that would have consequences on his career.In the army I cut grass, cleaned jacks, painted, laboured on building sites, drove bin lorries and collected refuse,drove fire engines and ambulances, painted vehicles, built (badly ) turf sheds, dug irrigation ditches, dug wells, glazed, plumbed, scrubbed tons of pots and pans, looked after homeless people, provided public transport, distributed petrol & other fuels, located & dug livestock out of snow, helped during flooding etc etc. There was no "knocking off time" no overtime - you just kept going until the job was done and there was no distinction between weekends and the "working week". Ah, **** all you begrudgers and ranters have me missing it now

Judgement Day

As Poccington and I have both said in our different ways, the decision about grass cutting outsourcing etc. was probably made at some very high level - in the Dept.of Defence etc - and I certainly don't wish to cast any aspersions on the average soldier in the Irish Army. That said, a rethink on what the objectives should be for the army, and the country's real needs i.e. the sorting out of our chronic crime problems, dissidents etc. rather than being prepared to meet some unlikely threat from a foreign power.

hondasam

hondasam wrote: »

Why would I want to cut the grass where I work it's not what I'm paid to do.
People on the dole on the other hand are paid to sit at home scratching let them do it.

Good idea.

donalg1

tipp_Gunner wrote: »

hondasam wrote: »

Why would I want to cut the grass where I work it's not what I'm paid to do.
People on the dole on the other hand are paid to sit at home scratching let them do it.

Good idea.

It is a good idea if not a little flawed in its suggestion. Not everyone on the dole is at home scratching themselves many are there due to unfortunate circumstances over the last few years but those that are long term unemployed should be made do some work like cutting grass or cleaning the streets to earn their dole give them a sense of independence and helP their self confidence.

No easy way to say it but anyone unemployed for five to ten years gas no excuse and should be made do something to prove they are willing to work.

WoollyRedHat

I'd gladly cut the grass for them, need the cash

Although Pat Kenny needs to start earning his money tbf...