Calor Gas

gizzemoto

Hi all,
I moved in to a rented house last November, I am new to LPG heating, I got a fill of gas (Half a Tank) and it cost €436 for 501 litres on the 8/11/2011, and today it has run out, that,s an average of €4.45 per/day. I only have it on for one hour in the mourning and one hour at night. Is there something I am doing wrong or does this sound right??

I am trying to find out the unit price per litre for LPG, I am currently paying 0.8711 per litre.

heinbloed

That would be around 5-6 liters per day and around 35-42 kW per day.
Not bad if the house is warm.
A 20 kW boiler would run for 2 hours on this amount of gas.

Do you think about saving on the bills?
Or increasing the comfort?

Patrickgerard

Hi All.
I am doing up a house in rural Ireland and am getting LPG Gas central heating installed to replace the existing storage heaters
I am a total newbie to this form of central heating as I have natural gas in Dublin.I really would appreciate any comments re the pros and cons of this form of CH ??

heinbloed

Patrickgerard wrote:

I am doing up a house in rural Ireland and am getting LPG Gas central heating installed to replace the existing storage heaters

Why LPG, Patrickgerard?

DoneDL

Patrickgerard wrote: »

Hi All.
I am doing up a house in rural Ireland and am getting LPG Gas central heating installed to replace the existing storage heaters
I am a total newbie to this form of central heating as I have natural gas in Dublin.I really would appreciate any comments re the pros and cons of this form of CH ??

I would give LPG a wide berth in a rural property. The price of LPG will not compete with oil and the more rural you are the harder it is to get parts for a gas boiler. I would stick with an oil condensing ( preferably Grant) and good controls with a good quality solid fuel stove with a backboiler as a backup.

Patrickgerard

Hi,
We have just decided LPG would be a better option for us when everything is considered (house will be used as a holiday home)

Patrickgerard

DoneDL wrote: »

I would give LPG a wide berth in a rural property. The price of LPG will not compete with oil and the more rural you are the harder it is to get parts for a gas boiler. I would stick with an oil condensing ( preferably Grant) and good controls with a good quality solid fuel stove with a backboiler as a backup.

Hi.
Any pros??

DoneDL

Apart from the fact nobody is stealing LPG I can't think of one. Really LPG is a better fuel but ìts still expensive.

heinbloed

For a (summer-) holiday home any source of thermal energy is viable. Standing charges for tank rental or electricity meter/connections are propably higher than the demanded thermal energy itself (costs for purchased kWh/a compared to standing charges and maintenance costs).
Add anual maintenance costs and spare parts to the overall bill then nothing beats electricity - unless the holiday home is in forest and those going on holidays are willing to chop to fuel stoves.

What type of DHW supply is available, being considered?

How high is the thermal demand per year, space heating and DHW? Is electricity and potable water available ?

A civil engineer or architect doing the plans would ask these questions, are these numbers available or would the holiday home been build around the available energy source?

DoneDL

heinbloed wrote: »

For a (summer-) holiday home any source of thermal energy is viable. Standing charges for tank rental or electricity meter/connections are propably higher than the demanded thermal energy itself (costs for purchased kWh/a compared to standing charges and maintenance costs).
Add anual maintenance costs and spare parts to the overall bill then nothing beats electricity - unless the holiday home is in forest and those going on holidays are willing to chop to fuel stoves.

What type of DHW supply is available, being considered?

How high is the thermal demand per year, space heating and DHW? Is electricity and potable water available ?

A civil engineer or architect doing the plans would ask these questions, are these numbers available or would the holiday home been build around the available energy source?

Strangely enough heinbloed " unless the holiday home is in forest and those going on holidays are willing to chop to fuel stoves" in a rural property if you have good local connections that is somewhere that savings can be made

Cedrus

The lower occupancy of a holiday home will push up the return on investment of a LPG System (well any system really), it's already the one of the most expensive home fuels in Ireland. Electric is the cheapest to install, (hence why it was installed in so many apartments during the tiger terror) and although it too is an expensive fuel, you will not need it for long. It is extremely controllable, you can run just a a trace heat when it's unoccupied, set it up with a frost stat, you can even get a controller that you can phone up to turn the heating up when you're driving there. Another pro point is that you don't have a radiator system to freeze when you're not there. I would supplement the space heating with a good solid fuel stove to keep the electric costs down, if it's a small place I'd just use a solid fuel stove for the space heating and keep electric for DHW and a trace space heater. Electricity (like LPG) is also a lot harder to steal than oil.

Patrickgerard

Thans all,
Has anyone an approximate idea how much it would cost to get a small bungalow fitted with calorgas lpg central heating and 8 rads ???? as I am clueless !!! but do realise that a plumber fits the rads and calor do the gasand what vshould I watch out for ???

Patrickgerard

Thanks !!!

Cedrus

gizzemoto wrote: »

Hi all,
I moved in to a rented house last November, I am new to LPG heating, I got a fill of gas (Half a Tank) and it cost €436 for 501 litres on the 8/11/2011, and today it has run out, that,s an average of €4.45 per/day. I only have it on for one hour in the mourning and one hour at night. Is there something I am doing wrong or does this sound right??

I am trying to find out the unit price per litre for LPG, I am currently paying 0.8711 per litre.

SEAI currently have Bulk LPG Average at 89c/L
SEAI Fuel Cost Comparison

maradonas

7 - 10 grand get a flo gas rep. or other rep.s to see if your site is suitable for lpg

Patrickgerard

Cedrus wrote: »

The lower occupancy of a holiday home will push up the return on investment of a LPG System (well any system really), it's already the most expensive home fuel in Ireland. Electric is the cheapest to install, (hence why it was installed in so many apartments during the tiger terror) and although it too is a relatively expensive fuel, you will not need it for long. It is extremely controllable, you can run just a a trace heat when it's unoccupied, set it up with a frost stat, you can even get a controller that you can phone up to turn the heating up when you're driving there. Another pro point is that you don't have a radiator system to freeze when you're not there. I would supplement the space heating with a good solid fuel stove to keep the electric costs down, if it's a small place I'd just use a solid fuel stove for the space heating and keep electric for DHW and a trace space heater. Electricity (like LPG) is also a lot harder to steal than oil.

You seem to know what youre talking about !! any more info on LPG ?? Is it much more expensive that oil ? basically we just want something that you can walk in and switch on !! what are the electric alternatives !! storage heaters are a disaster

heinbloed

Calorgas is a brand name. They sell gas delivered in large tank trucks and they sell bottled gas for take-away.

If you really think about supplying a holiday home with LPG (95% propane) then think about buying the storage tank OR buying the gas in bottles/cylinders.

Renting a tank is rather stupid, a tank rented will allow for 1 supplier only to fill it, according to the rental contracts - the owner of the tank.

A tank owned by the consumer allows for every supplier to deliver and to fill it up. And that is as cheap as oil when comparing the price per used kWh.

The numbers of radiators is irrelevant on final fuel consumption. Ask the planner(architect, civil engineer, energy advisor, builder etc.) to do a thermal energy demand calculation according to EN 12831 or similar.
Any other approach is like reading tea leaves.

Cedrus

Patrickgerard wrote: »

Thans all,
Has anyone an approximate idea how much it would cost to get a small bungalow fitted with calorgas lpg central heating and 8 rads ???? as I am clueless !!! but do realise that a plumber fits the rads and calor do the gasand what vshould I watch out for ???

What colour string?

This will depend a lot on location, local competition, quality of finish etc.
In some places the local trade is cuthroat so you'll get good deals if you know what you're doing but in other areas half the plumbers may have gone to australia and you'll still be paying tiger prices. Are you building a cabin in country where budget fittings will do or are you kitting out 5 star experience to rent to swiss moneymen?

If you really are clueless, get an engineer to sort it all out and get at least 3 quotes for everything.

Cedrus

Patrickgerard wrote: »

Is it much more expensive that oil ? basically we just want something that you can walk in and switch on !! what are the electric alternatives !! storage heaters are a disaster

About 1.5 - 2 times the price per kW see the SEAI link in post 14.

The options are myriad but depend on too many factors which you haven't published. Occupancy, location, site exposure, materials of construction, fuel/energy source availability, capital budget etc..........................

detective

I'm currently paying 68c p/l inc vat with calor bulk supply. Got 1891ltrs 13 months ago. Still have 225 left but it wasn't a bad winter.

shagal

im considering switching from oil to gas i contacted calor for a quote
3000 e+vat , for tank, 24 kw boiler , instolation 1000 liters gas on a 2 yr contract
with gas at 72 cent per liter including vat and carbon tax 500 euro deposit and the rest over 24 months with 0 intrest
but not sure as i have never had gas before always oil
anyone got any comments on this offer , is there some thing i am missing out on ?



ps .dont bother with seai fuel prices i checked out their latest prices and they had kero and lpg at .94 cent pl
calor own quote was 72 cent per liter including vat and carbon tax .

shane0007

shagal wrote: »

im considering switching from oil to gas i contacted calor for a quote
3000 e+vat , for tank, 24 kw boiler , instolation 1000 liters gas on a 2 yr contract
with gas at 72 cent per liter including vat and carbon tax 500 euro deposit and the rest over 24 months with 0 intrest
but not sure as i have never had gas before always oil
anyone got any comments on this offer , is there some thing i am missing out on ?

ps .dont bother with seai fuel prices i checked out their latest prices and they had kero and lpg at .94 cent pl
calor own quote was 72 cent per liter including vat and carbon tax .

I do installs for Calor & I find them an excellent company to deal with.
They are offering very good deals at the moment & there are some real benefits from having a modulating gas boiler rather than an all on or all off oil boiler. I am on oil myself with a 2 & 1/2 year Grant Vortex. I am soon to swap over to Calor. Just finalising my savings calculations & a neighbour down the road wants to buy my boiler!
+1 on SEAI's figures. I have no idea where they get those figures from. Perhaps from Community bulk storage that is metered. They do pay quite a bit more.

glic83

Any update on this Shane did you change over yet?

shane0007

glic83 wrote: »

Any update on this Shane did you change over yet?

Sorry, Glic83, no update as yet. I had planned on doing it in January as January & February are my usual quiet months but have been very busy so far this year for some reason.

glic83

No problem was just interested in hearing how the changeover was going would be interested in changing over myself if it would save me on oil, my own boiler is non condensing and i think its slightly undersized for the house ,so a modulating gas boiler would be the better option and we are no where near the main gas line so it would have to be lpg.Re the pack on offer from calor, do you know what boiler is it that they offer ?

shane0007

The complete priced package is a bit of a myth. It only qualifies for that price if very certain criteria is met which only about 1 in 20 meet.
It is more done so on a price to suit the job & you can choose whatever boiler you wish. Issues arise when the installer arrives and the boiler is in a different place to where the old one is, pipework is different. A powerflush is required. Wiring is different, etc.

Offer at the moment is 1,000 litres of free LPG & depending upon the size of the house, about €0.65 to €0.70 per litre including taxes & vat, etc. They also will do deals on tank installation & tank rental/maintenance.

glic83

well my firebird 70/90 heatpac is an a few feet from the house so there would be a bit of work involved so id say that would drive the price up a good bit, would probably cos a good bit more so to chance over to lpg than get a condensing oil boiler and install it next to the house.

shane0007

Not necessarily. It does not matter where the old boiler is but where do the pipework surface in relation to the location of the new gas boiler.

It costs nothing to get a quote on both. For example, many of the Calor contractors do both gas & oil as we do, & can discuss both options. It is just better not to have the contractor contacted through Calor initially as it would be unethical for Calor to send them out to quote but then install oil! Well, I would not do it anyhow.
Alternatively, contact Calor for quote for gas & another contractor for an oil quote. Best advice I can think of is to try to educate yourself as much as possible. It really helps both parties.

glic83

well dont have the money to pay out for a new boiler just now (and tbh dont need to change just now) but i like the offer on the interest free payment with calor and i like the idea of gas and that no one is going to rob your lpg tank like they can with oil. it would be a messy job to change over i would think as there would be a bit of pipe work involved in the utility , where as with a new oil boiler its an easier install for a new boiler outside as thats the current set up, again this is just my opinion and an installer would have to look at it for a definite answer

phormium

Just came across this thread while searching for info on Calor. Would anyone know what the tank rental is with them and does it vary? I am with them for many years and the annual rental was always 70ish, however got a letter last year saying it was going up from next renewal for everyone to 200, sure enough in due course my renewal arrived and I had to pay 200. I did ring them and complain about the massive increase but got nowhere.

Now as it happens I pay the bills for another family member and their renewal for tank arrived couple of weeks ago and it was still at the old rate of 70, mine arrived yesterday and it is 200, before I ring them to ask and maybe end up costing my relative more. Any info?

Also is it possible to buy one's own tank, I see reference in one of the previous posts to it being better to own the tank, is this an option with Calor does anyone know. And finally one last question is it possible to switch to Flogas while there is gas in the tank or is it even possible to switch at all?

scudo2

phormium wrote: »

Just came across this thread while searching for info on Calor. Would anyone know what the tank rental is with them and does it vary? I am with them for many years and the annual rental was always 70ish, however got a letter last year saying it was going up from next renewal for everyone to 200, sure enough in due course my renewal arrived and I had to pay 200. I did ring them and complain about the massive increase but got nowhere.

Now as it happens I pay the bills for another family member and their renewal for tank arrived couple of weeks ago and it was still at the old rate of 70, mine arrived yesterday and it is 200, before I ring them to ask and maybe end up costing my relative more. Any info?

Also is it possible to buy one's own tank, I see reference in one of the previous posts to it being better to own the tank, is this an option with Calor does anyone know. And finally one last question is it possible to switch to Flogas while there is gas in the tank or is it even possible to switch at all?

Ask other suppliers flo gas + anybody else for info. there always looking for new costomers.

From what I heard home insurance Co. do not cover gas tank in some cases, but please check it out.

Oil is 20-30% cheaper to run. Look it up.SEAI.IE or grantengineering.ie

shane0007

scudo2 wrote: »

Oil is 20-30% cheaper to run. Look it up.SEAI.IE or grantengineering.ie

Sorry but that is simply not true. The SEAI really should stop taking their information from PixieLand & realise that PixieLand is a made up place & the information & stories that come out of there are usually made up too.

If you take Calor for example, you can sign up for as low as 65 cent per litre. This equates to 8.3 cent per kwh, which is the identical to kerosene.
If you sign up for their advertised price of 75 cent per litre, this equates to 9.4 cent per kwh.
They are claiming it is 13.49 cent per kwh.

I'm an oil & gas man. I am on oil myself. I am also a service engineer for Grant. It is not in my interest to knock oil & I don't. However, I also like to stick to facts for as much of the time as I can.

phormium

I am not looking to change from gas, I prefer it. Bad experience in the past with a rented house and oil coloured my opinion of oil, no doubt incorrectly but I will stick with what I have.

Flogas is my only other option as far as I know, I didn't think there was any other companies, is there?

I actually rang them last year when it originally went up to 200, rang twice actually, they were to call me back, never got a call, so not sure if they are that bothered about new customers.

scudo2

phormium wrote: »

Just came across this thread while searching for info on Calor. Would anyone know what the tank rental is with them and does it vary? I am with them for many years and the annual rental was always 70ish, however got a letter last year saying it was going up from next renewal for everyone to 200, sure enough in due course my renewal arrived and I had to pay 200. I did ring them and complain about the massive increase but got nowhere.

Now as it happens I pay the bills for another family member and their renewal for tank arrived couple of weeks ago and it was still at the old rate of 70, mine arrived yesterday and it is 200, before I ring them to ask and maybe end up costing my relative more. Any info?

Also is it possible to buy one's own tank, I see reference in one of the previous posts to it being better to own the tank, is this an option with Calor does anyone know. And finally one last question is it possible to switch to Flogas while there is gas in the tank or is it even possible to switch at all?

PM Shane 0007, he seems to have the best info on Calor Gas

shane0007

Thanks, but really no need to PM me. The best option is to ring them, get the mobile number for the rep for your area & start negotiating hard with them. Tell them you know people are getting tank rentals for between €100 & €140. Tell them you will move to Flogas is they do not give in to something. You really need to play hard ball with them but it is the rep that has the say. You should also find the rep to be very easy to get on with and are very obliging. Likewise, if you are with Flogas & considering going to Calor, the same ethos applies.
If will really not to your long term or even short benefit to swap over. You can do, but it will be a lot of hassle, so play some hard ball & find some middle ground between you.

phormium

Thanks for that Shane, will get on to it tomorrow. Actually it was a local rep I dealt with originally. I don't really want to change from them but that was a hell of a jump in rental for the same tank that is sitting there for 23 yrs, but as they told me they service it every 10 yrs, now that is some service charge!

shane0007

They change the tanks now every 15 years. Full inspection every 5 years testing all parts of the thickness of the steel. The new tanks have gas level transmitters, so their batteries are also changed every 5 years.

To me, this gives you even more bargaining power as you can say the tank is due to be changed so whether Calor changes it or Flogas puts in their makes no odds to you.

As I said, deal directly with your rep & I think you will be happy with the outcome.

phormium

They just serviced it last year and painted it, odd thing to do if they are considering changing it! Definitely last year as it was just before I got the renewal and when I rang Calor said advised that the cost of rental included servicing the tank, when I said I had never seen anyone service it before the most recent one, she told me it had also been serviced also in 2002, it was installed in 1990.

Will let you know how I get on

phormium

The update. Rang Calor today to get the name and number of local rep, the guy I was talking to offered to take my number and get rep to ring me but first wanted to know what it was about as it might be something he could help with. Explained that when I rang last year on same issue I got no help just very much take it or leave it attitude.

Anyway after telling him my gripe it turns out I am now 'eligible' to be put back to the old rate of 70+ tank rental. I queried how come this was so and he said to be eligible for that rate you had to buy over 650 somethings (not sure what measure of quantity he used!) per year. I queried how much was this in money as I would use pretty much the same amount every year and was told around 600 euro. Now I pointed out that I have always paid more than that per annum, I pay on average 1,200 p.a., no real answer for me but just kept assuring me that I would be moved back to old rate. When I queried why that requirement was not mentioned in the communication received advising of increases last year, was told it was something that was being monitored on a yearly basis and that there were quite a lot of costs associated with tank rental. I am sure there are but my 23 yr old tank with 2 services in that time and one paint job is certainly not costing them much and has been well paid for at this stage.

Anyway I am happy for the moment, but if I hadn't rang I would be left paying 200, they weren't rushing to write to tell me of my new 'eligibility' for the lower rate. Bit of sharp practice really!

shane0007

That's great news. The main thing is you got a fantastic deal & a lot more than expected.
Without Boards you may have been left in limbo or over-paying or going through the hassle of changing supplier, so it just shows how good a public service Boards provides.
Well done.

glic83

If hes tank is 23 years old shouldn't they be replacing it?

shane0007

glic83 wrote: »

If hes tank is 23 years old shouldn't they be replacing it?

That would have been decided by the inspecting engineer. The decision would not be taken lightly & they would take thickness readings of the steel to determine their decision. The condition of the tank would have been in very good condition.

scudo2

Fair play to you Shane for all the free advice you give out. + all the time you put into the long reply's to everybody.

phormium

Yes I agree, this is a great facility and thanks for the advice Shane.

Still a bit pee'd off though that I paid the 200 last year when clearly under their 'eligibility' I shouldn't have had to. Still think I might write a little letter of complaint about that

JD6910

shane0007 wrote: »

That would have been decided by the inspecting engineer. The decision would not be taken lightly & they would take thickness readings of the steel to determine their decision. The condition of the tank would have been in very good condition.

what happens in relation to underground tanks? do they change they out also every couple of years - if so the digging would be very disturbing????

shane0007

JD6910 wrote: »

what happens in relation to underground tanks? do they change they out also every couple of years - if so the digging would be very disturbing????

Obviously not. Underground tanks are not open to the elements. A bit like underground tanks in your forecourt.
There is still an inspection process though.

JD6910

shane0007 wrote: »

Obviously not. Underground tanks are not open to the elements. A bit like underground tanks in your forecourt.
There is still an inspection process though.

heard through the grapevine that flogas look to change out UG tanks after X amount of years due to corrosion from ground water etc....

by the by: which would you install in a super insulated house: oil or gas?

shane0007

JD6910 wrote: »

by the by: which would you install in a super insulated house: oil or gas?

Calculate the exact kw demand. If demand is very low, either gas because it is modulating or oil through a small buffer tank to eliminate cycling. Then modulate out if the buffer.

There are many pros & cons for both systems. It will depend on your preference. Obviously we are talking about LPG as Nat Gas would win hands down if available.

I am oil & gave serious consideration to swapping to LPG but decided to remove HW demand & stick with oil but change to buffer.
With LPG the cost per kwh is marginally higher but you get it back with modulation of the boiler.

shane0007

JD6910 wrote: »

heard through the grapevine that flogas look to change out UG tanks after X amount of years due to corrosion from ground water etc....

That could well be on older tanks.

shane0007

JD6910 wrote: »

by the by: which would you install in a super insulated house: oil or gas?

The other consideration is what are you heating, rads, low heat rads, fan assisted rads or UFH?
All can give differing options on the source.

glic83

You said you removed the HW demand, what way are you now heating hot water?