MiniMum price alcohol is direct from the vintners federation

Tigger

http://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/article.aspx?id=2273

Later opening hours and formal training for all new entrants to the on-trade figured among motions passed at this year’s VFI AGM held at the Slieve Russel in Ballyconnell, County Cavan, recently. Pat Nolan reports.

Jun 28 2011



Amongst other motions discussed and passed by nearly 300 VFI members at this year’s VFI AGM were those calling for a VAT reduction and the implementation of all parts of the 2008 Intoxicating Liquor Act.

Other matters discussed and debated included cheap alcohol sales, tackling red tape, Mandatory and fraudulent ID cards, the rates burden (VFI Chief Executive Padraig Cribben reckoned that what was needed was "an 'ICTU' - ... not an 'IBEC'" for small businesses) and members' participation - or lack of it - in VFI initiatives such as the roadshows, darts competitions and the Stars of Our Bars promotion.

Former VFI President Michael Moloney pointed out to the conference that one can only pay Local Authority rates and charges from profits. This was the road to go down. There should be a reduction in these charges as profits have shrunk by over 50 per cent “…. And most of us should be on the dole…”.

Enniscorthy’s Joe Doyle pointed out, “Below-cost selling will lead to people on trolleys in hospital car parks through cheap drink – tell the new Health Minister that!”.

Fine Gael had stated in its pre-election literature that it would ban below-costs but so far FG had failed to translate this into action, pointed out Padraig Cribben, adding, “This will be one of the top two things to be pursued by the Federation - cheap alcohol and the cost of doing business in this country.”

The VFI’s Trade Relations Committee Chairman and former VFI President Dick Dunne explained that 2010 had been a difficult year for dealing with suppliers with lower volumes being sold and suppliers themselves under pressure.

In 2009, a report from former President Val Hanley had stated that for the first time there had been no price increase from suppliers.

Dick was glad to report the same again for the second year running when increases had taken place in the UK and NI from the same suppliers.

Reviewed trading terms had made it easier for publicans to reach their growth targets in 2010.

Chair of the VFI’s Member Services/Costs Committee Noreen O’Sullivan pointed out that a five per cent drop in membership during the year to December 2010 could be put down to the difficult trading conditions and Padraig Cribben pointed out that the drop appeared to stabilise in the first four months of 2011.

Greg Gormley from the Louth branch sought help from suppliers with costs for the growing number of ‘ice-cold’ taps which could cost publicans up to €500 a year per tap.

Sean Redmond of Monaghan branch told conference that the cost of producing electricity had gone up by 12 to 15 per cent.

“We can save about 15 per cent on coldroom costs by raising the temperature from three to eight degrees,” he said, adding that the ‘coffin’ system uses around 10 units a day that could be dropped to five. Bottles could be chilled using half-price electricity, he added.

Paul Bell from Tullamore wanted the VFI to lobby the Department of Justice on later opening hours at the weekend for pubs.

“I’ve had nine prosecutions for late-night opening but I’m just trying to pay the mortgage,” he explained.

Noreen O'Sullivan of Nenagh wanted the VFI to pursue a change in legislation to ensure that all new entrants to the on-trade undergo a formal training programme relevant to the trade in advance of receiving a licence from the court. Following some debate, it was passed as was one that the VFI seek to have tobacco removed from licence turnover calculations and another that sought to have opening hours for St Patrick’s Night run on to 12.30am the following morning regardless of the day of the week.

Another motion, that the VFI lobby to ensure that the relevant parts of the 2008 Act on the structural separation of alcohol sales areas in mixed trading outlets and controls on the marketing and advertising of alcohol in mixed trading outlets be enforced, was also passed.

Kildare’s Michael Lambe sought to have the Federation campaign for members to put defibrillators into their pubs.

“This is a motion very close to my heart,” joked the recipient of four jump-starts in three years who got the motion passed.

 

 

"It’s about satisfying customers profitably”

This year’s guest speaker, former C&C and Tesco Chief Executive Maurice Pratt, reckoned that the VFI document Options 4 Recovery “was absolutely ‘on the money’”.

He’d spent almost 40 years in Irish commercial life, 10 in marketing, 10 in grocery retailing and eight in the drinks industry.

 

“I regard myself first and foremost as a marketeer,” he said of his outlook which had led him to believe that you need to have someone representing the customer on any management board.

Businesses that understood customers and how to market to their needs had an advantage.

“It’s about satisfying customers profitably” he explained, “Despite all that’s happened the pub remains part of the fabric of what defines us. It’s in our DNA.


“When we get beyond the fallout of our misbehaviour as a society, we will recover our sociability and the pub will play a prime role here. But it won’t happen by itself. Without nurturing, it will wither on the vine.

“No pub operating satisfactorily today has done so without adapting to present challenges.

“And the challenges faced are by no means unique but are faced by many different businesses.”

He alluded to the pharmacy sector where parallel importing of drugs was also rampant.

Alcohol consumption will continue to decline although not as fast as at present, he predicted, but on- to off-trade drift would continue.

“The strong will survive because they will adapt.

“If suppliers dictate to your business, then they’re the ones who have their hand on the tiller of your business,” he said.

Options 4 Recovery also tackled the value perceptions of pubs.

“Prices are a thorny issue,” he pointed out, “Consumers believe that pricing in pubs has not yet adjusted to the lower financial position consumers find themselves in. They believe that their local was overcharging them in the good times. Whether you were overcharging or not, it’s their perception.”

But, he said, tackling prices in pubs is fundamental to their future prosperity.

“Consumers are cynical of a ‘value improvement’ plan and require a lot longer. Give it a full year,” he advised, adding that even the smallest pub can put together a marketing plan.

“Make use of the ‘facetube’ media, as comedian Peter Kaye called it. For less than €200 you can create your own version of Bud Ice Cold’s marketing campaign. Put it all together in a coherent plan.

“If we improve the value over time, we will recover lost market share. So shift the focus from price to value. Embrace the new tools of communication which are available at low cost. And remember that the positive body language of the proprietor transmits to his staff.”

He believes too that the trade should continue to press for a re-introduction of the ban on below-cost.

The definition of ‘cost’ was set as ’net invoice price’, so retailers sought ‘off-invoice’ pricing from suppliers.

“50 per cent of the trading margins that the Tesco business earned was ‘off-income’,” he told delegates, “50 per cent of sales in Christmas Week came from alcohol in Quinnsworth”.

There are “incredibly strong social arguments” for the re-introduction of the ban, he concluded.


"The pub remains part of the fabric of what defines us. It's in our DNA" - Mauice Pratt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Do It Yourself” urges VFI President

“The last Government undermined our industry at every turn and suppliers have turned their attention to the off-trade.

“If we’re going to save this industry we’re going to have to do it ourselves.”

In his presidential address, VFI President Gerry Mellett reminded members that it was the risk-takers who employ some 700,000 “… and so we cannot throw in the towel, but the banks that we’ve saved are showing very little sympathy to the small business”.

He pointed out that this industry has changed and he believed that it had changed forever.

“But behind every job in our industry there’s a family, so today’s pub must maximise its potential in ways we’d never have thought of before. Why are pubs closed all day? What kind of message are we sending out? Closing during the day does not fulfill the need of the modern consumer. And if we don’t do that, someone else will,” he warned.

 

 

 

Options 4 Recovery

As part of this year’s VFI Conference, the Federation released a new blueprint for the future of the pub trade, Options 4 Recovery, with the aim of helping inject life into the struggling pub industry and help save the 50,000 jobs in the trade.

The majority of pubs simply can’t sustain current sales trends so the VFI spent the last few months gathering the thoughts of its members.

Describing it as “brave and forward-looking”, VFI Chief Executive Padraig Cribben said, “The Options 4 Recovery document challenges publicans to ensure they have the highest standards of service and we are well on the way to doing this with the launch of the recent Fáilte Ireland accreditation scheme”.

He also described as “primarily unjustified” the perception of a lack of value in the pub trade, but one nevertheless which needs to be tackled.

“Publicans must also promote themselves better and get involved in local festivals and events and provide leadership in this area. Pubs play an integral part in the tourism industry which is one of the potential green shoots for economic recovery.”

VFI President Gerry Mellett added, “Publicans need the current Government to reduce the costs of doing business in Ireland to help keep doors open and preserve jobs.

“A total revamp of how Local Authorities are structured and financed is required to significantly reduce the current burden on business. In addition, the Government needs to address the irresponsible practice of below-cost selling of alcohol in supermarkets.

“The VFI firmly believes that with the right policies in place, not only can jobs be saved but jobs can be created.”


Options 4 Recovery focuses on four main areas:

1. Standards: Looking after the Customer

According to the document, “The real opposition today is not the other publicans but the home, the supermarket, the gym, the cinema and any other place the leisure €uro can be spent”. It points to the recently-established Fáilte Ireland Accreditation scheme as one way in which pubs can ensure that they’re best looking after their customers.

 

2. Value: The Value Perception

There’s a perception in some quarters that the pub is expensive.

“Value is not just price,” states the document, “It also relates to ambience, entertainment and quality of offering – in essence the total experience.”

The notion that pubs are expensive can be put down to a number of factors, most prominently by “a direct comparison with supermarkets for certain products, notably bottled beer and soft drinks” and by our excise regime which is “way higher” than most other European countries.

 

3. Costs: Remove the Barriers

Many of the costs are regulatory-imposed and outside the control of the individual operator and so the VFI is calling for:-

         a. an immediate amendment to the rates legislation to allow for a                      premises to be re-rated on request

         b. a reduction in excessive red tape and bureaucracy

         c. an exemption of VRT on seven- and nine-seater buses used for                      commercial purposes

         d. the abolition of the Joint Labour Committee system

         e. a more balanced approach to smoking rooms

         f.  a reduction on the VAT rate to 13.5 per cent on alcohol served in              licensed premises

         g. the introduction of a minimum price for alcohol based on the         

             alcohol content of the product.



4. Promotion: Events and Marketing

In seeking how to further drive footfall, the document notes that, “The consumer demand has changed. People need a reason to go out so publicans must provide this reason”.

 


From left: Keynote speaker and former Chief Executive of Quinnsworth, Tesco and the C&C Group Maurice Pratt with VFI President Gerry Mellett and VFI Chief Executive Padraig Cribben at the launch of Options 4 Recovery at the Slieve Russel Hotel, Cavan.

So the vfi want off sales cost up and they want the vat on drink on on sales lowered. I'd be interested to see if that is fina Gaels next plan
 

 

 

 

AngryBollix

drink

FatherLen

a tl;dr would be GREATLY appreciated.

AngryBollix

FatherLen wrote: »

a tl;dr would be GREATLY appreciated.

too long started to drink

Tigger

FatherLen wrote: »

a tl;dr would be GREATLY appreciated.

The Bit at the bottom
So the vfi want off sales cost up and they want the vat on drink on on sales lowered. I'd be interested to see if that is fina Gaels next plan

foxyboxer

I'm still waiting for the day when I can order a LITRE of lager in our METRIC system.

CardBordWindow

Can I get the version with the pictures and the big writing please?

smash

They should be told outright to fúck off.

Also, this article is from Jun 28 2011. We've had plenty of threads and debates about it since then.

syklops

FatherLen wrote: »

a tl;dr would be GREATLY appreciated.

I started reading it, and after a while I realised that Lynard Skynards Free Bird(which I had been listening to) had finished and I was still reading and I thought "Ah here, this is getting ridiculous".

To sum up,

The Vinters want the VAT on pub sales reduced, but a ban on below cost selling by off licenses, which, I am not sure if that would be legal tbh.

They also want to push for later opening hours at weekends, which I can certainly getting behind.

One lad wants defibrillators available in every pub because he has been brought back to life 4 times by them now and he wants to be able to do a pub crawl with out worrying about death.

And then a few more people bickering about the below cost selling of alcohol and one fella moaning about the ESB bills and thats basically it.

dr.bollocko

June 28 2011.....

syklops

dr.bollocko wrote: »

June 28 2011.....

Ah for flips sake OP. All that and its not even news!

Tazz T

Just more of the same from FG. What really needs to done is the banning of antiquated anti-competitive rip off institutions such as the VFI.

Executive Steve

dr.bollocko wrote: »

June 28 2011.....

...and since then what's happened?

A load of talking heads on RTE and in all the papers rabbiting on about how drink from supermarkets is fuelling a ticking timebomb of disease and anti-social behaviour.

Draft proposals for a new Sale of Intoxicating Liquor act that addresses most, if not all, of the points raised above.

Widespread ignoring of the fact that alcohol consumption in the republic is down by 17% compared to 2006 and that our crime stats are down too.

This is exactly the sort of post that should be being posted up, because it takes months and months for lobbyist for the VFI to set the agenda (cunningly disguised as health campaigners etc) to the extent that the Vintners get what they want without having to be seen to be asking for it.

This is how industry / old media / politics works.

They're claiming this new bill will be about saving the children, but it's really just NAMA for the pub owners, a good few of whom are sitting in the Dáil to begin with.

biko

This thread makes 0 sense.

Executive Steve

syklops wrote: »

Ah for flips sake OP. All that and its not even news!

Of course it's news, well, the issue at hand is in the news, this is context for the news, context you're highly unlikely to find in any other news media outlet, so I reckon it more than qualifies as news.

Executive Steve

biko wrote: »

This thread makes 0 sense.

It makes loads of sense, and it's a very handy introduction to how cynical Irish politics gets.

mikemac1

Wait, I though Fianna Fáil were the publican party

Looks like our new masters in FG are the publican party also

Tigger

I posted it to show that the legislation being drafted ATM
Is a direct result of the vfi agm
They have being lobbying for this since 2008
Rosin shortfall is on the radio and tv this week re explaining how it's her idea

if nthey were discussing this today that would be a different matter

mikemac1

Don't forget the LVA

VFI don't represent Dublin

Tigger

mikemac1 wrote: »

Don't forget the LVA

VFI don't represent Dublin

these fella that withdrew from MEAS because they want to sell alcohol cheaap in happy hours etc

THE COUNTRY’S TWO largest publicans associations have withdrawn from a drinks industry body promoting the sensible enjoyment of alcohol.

Both the Vintners’ Federation of Ireland (VFI) and the Licenced Vintners’ Association (LVA) have pulled out of the MEAS lobby group after withdrawing from its voluntary code on the promotion of alcoholic drinks.

It is understood that both groups withdrew from the code, and therefore from the lobby itself, after concerns from their members that a voluntary code of conduct on the sale of alcohol was sending customers into off-licences for cheaper produce instead of pubs.

El Weirdo

Tigger wrote: »

Jun 28 2011

Tigger please.

Tigger

El Weirdo wrote: »

Tigger please.

Tigger please what

as i've explained the agm happened before shortfall took up the torch of cheaap alcohol is baad

if it had happened afterwards then they would be following her but she is following them

ffs

she comes out with this 4 months later and they back her



http://www.vfi.ie/News/vfi-backs-ministers-stance-on-below-cost-selling-of-alcohol-74

The VFI has long called for the Government to look at the pricing strategies of supermarkets in Ireland and to curb the availability of cheap drink which is being sold in an uncontrolled environment and promoted and marketed in an irresponsible fashion.

they they reminded her that they don't want to pay more just to sell for more in off sales

The VFI though also warned that increasing excise levels would be counterproductive. “Increasing excise will only punish the moderate drinker and will not tackle the main culprits which are the supermarkets.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=vfi%20lobby%20alcohol&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CGAQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oireachtas.ie%2Fparliament%2Fmedia%2Fcommittees%2Fhealthandchildren%2FVFI-Presentation.doc&ei=F-88T6KsL5SAhQeA5uHsBQ&usg=AFQjCNF8kIz3vgAT7M_MIbxp9LeVONJeLw

copy of the letter published by the Lobby group wanting their pubs fixed

Zebra3

Did someone mention Quinnsworth in that article?

syklops

Zebra3 wrote: »

Did someone mention Quinnsworth in that article?

Yep. Maybe this article is older than we thought?

the purple tin

Ever heard of free trade you stupid vintners?

El Weirdo

Tigger wrote: »

Tigger please what

*sigh*

Nothing, it's just a play on your username. I've been wanting to use it for ages.

Paparazzo

Maurice Pratt speaks sense there. Basically, we got ourselves into this mess by charging so much in the good times because people now associate the pub with being ripped off.

LOL at this!

Enniscorthy’s Joe Doyle pointed out, “Below-cost selling will lead to people on trolleys in hospital car parks through cheap drink – tell the new Health Minister that!”.

Sure, he's only interested in the health of the customer. I'm sure he never served a customer more than 3 pints in a night, no one has ever "binge drank" in his pub, he never took money off an alco on dole day and he was completely in support of the tobacco ban.

mikemac1

They may have a point about rates

A pub is a cash business and turns over lots but the councils are setting their rates on turnover and not profit as I understand

Councils are some of the biggest money grabbers around

syklops

mikemac1 wrote: »

Councils are some of the biggest money grabbers around

This.

The current Dublin bin collection fiasco is even more disgusting when you consider the amount of money they get in rates.

Cianos

Who do they think they're fooling saying supermarkets selling at competitive prices is a health risk to the nation?

People choose to drink at home because it's a rip off to go to the pub. So they buy a crate at a good price and go home and spend time with family and friends who are in the same boat. I don't think many fights break out in people's living rooms, or I don't think many domestic socialising ends up in downing shots because the bar is about to close.

Absolute chancers.

antodeco

I thought this thread was going to be about a dwarf mother

Kerrigooney

El Weirdo wrote: »

*sigh*

Nothing, it's just a play on your username. I've been wanting to use it for ages.

Haha. If you have to explain it..... I thought it was funny anyway. Good work.

Tigger

El Weirdo wrote: »

*sigh*

Nothing, it's just a play on your username. I've been wanting to use it for ages.

You do realise i'm black right?

Nothingbetter2d

how about the vfi drop the price of drink and cash strapped people might start going to pubs again.

Capt'n Midnight

Greg Gormley from the Louth branch sought help from suppliers with costs for the growing number of ‘ice-cold’ taps which could cost publicans up to €500 a year per tap.

Sean Redmond of Monaghan branch told conference that the cost of producing electricity had gone up by 12 to 15 per cent.

“We can save about 15 per cent on coldroom costs by raising the temperature from three to eight degrees,” he said, adding that the ‘coffin’ system uses around 10 units a day that could be dropped to five. Bottles could be chilled using half-price electricity, he added.

So they could save electricity by not serving it so cold you can't taste it. And by turning down the music. They could also save money by not redoing the decor every few years.

I keep saying it , the excise duty on beer hasn't change since 1994 , and these guys want a reduction in VAT AND and increase in the price to their competitors.


Aldi sell 6 litres of 4% for €8. Well below Lidl and Tesco and I haven't noticed more alcos.

At the end of the day beers are cheap to produce. Barley costs as little as €110 a tonne. 1.25 tonnes of barley makes one tonne of malted barley, and on average, around 35 barrels of beer (10,000 pints) can be made from one tonne of malted barley

Work it all out and the cost of barley per pint is just 1.375c (remember this when Budweiser make their claim about the cost of their brewing ) Yes there are processing and bottling and distribution costs. The cost of a pint is the production cost ( a few cent), VAT (applies to most things, fact of life really) Excise (hasn't changed 45c since 1994) and the the rest is adsorbed by the middlemen.

Aldi lager = €1.33 per litre
VAT 25c
Excise 63c
Total tax take is 88c

Of the 45c left , Barley cost 2.4c processing & can can't cost more than the 17c you can get kidney beans for. Still leaves 20c profit.

Or if Aldi can sell it and break even then someone is making a killing on other beers.



If the publicans were screaming as loudly about diageo & co. then I wouldn't consider it crocodile tears.

Senna

From time to time most of the larger shops will sell alcohol at cost or even below cost, as cheap drink will entice people in and while their buying beer they will also purchase other items.
I would prefer if the price of drink in pubs was decreased, most Saturday nights are like a ghost town until 11pm when all the home drinks come out. They should be able to reduce the price in pubs without effecting off-sale prices.