Palestinian hunger striker - 61 days, detained without charge, near death

wes

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

lividduck khadar Adnan is a senior member of Islamic Jihad

This :rolleyes:

Thanks for high lighting that smear, I missed it. He was just a spokesman, and there is no link provided by the poster who made that claim to show that he was a senior member. So yes, that is most certainly a smear.

Anyway one of the first links on google when I search his name from the independent.co.uk, make no mention of him being a senior member. So IMHO, its safe to say it was a fiction and an perfect example of the smears I was talking about:

Khader Adnan: The West Bank's Bobby Sands

--SNIP--
Mr Adnan, 33, a mathematics graduate who runs a bakery in nearby Qabatya, has long been politically active. He has been convicted for being a spokesman of Islamic Jihad, one of the most militant Palestinian factions. And he has been arrested numerous times by Israel, and at least once by the Palestinian Authority, since leading a student demonstration in 1999 at Bir Zeit University against the visiting French Prime Minister Lionel Jospin.

But his family insists that he has never been involved in violence; nor has he been charged with it. Indeed, on this occasion, he has not been charged with any crime. His hunger strike has focused growing attention on the practice of administrative detention, in which Palestinians can be held without trial and on the basis of secret intelligence dossiers which are not shown to the defendant or his lawyers.
--SNIP--

So he is not a senior member, that was a smear. He has already been convicted for being a spokes person, and has never been convicted of violence.

Presently there are no charges at all against him, and he has already been jailed for being a spokes person of Islamic Jihad. So as I said before, Israel and her supporters do not have a leg to stand on in this. if he is guilty of something, then charge him and give him a fair trial (which is something I have no confidence that Israel will give a Palestinian). So until then, the man should be let go.

Again, thanks for high lighting that false claim from lividduck, I completely missed it.

KyussBishop

Great article from Glenn Greenwald on Khader Adnan, and the hypocrisy of the US governments selective criticism of other countries human rights records:
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/20/khader_adnan_and_normalized_western_justice/singleton/

Nodin

It's not looking good for him. 65 days or so in now.

gigino

Nodin wrote: »

It's not looking good for him. 65 days or so in now.

he had a choice. More so than some of his victims. As someone else said "Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad,an organisation funded by Syria and based out of Damascus.We sit here and cry about how our laws allow criminals to get away with things and complain when another state takes strong action.I am in no way condoning or condemning Isreal but lets be realistic

The aims of Islamic Jihad is the complete destruction of Israel.Some of their more infamous attacks.......


July 1989: Attack of Egged bus 405 along the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv Highway, at least 14 people killed (including two Canadians and one American) and dozens more wounded. Though intended to be a suicide attack, the perpetrator survived.

February 4, 1990: A bus carrying Israeli tourists in Egypt was attacked. The attack left 11 people, including nine Israelis, dead and 17 others injured.
April 1994: A car bomb aboard a public bus killed nine people and injured fifty.

April 1995: Suicide bomb in Netzarim and Kfar-Darom. The first bomb killed eight people and injured over 30 on an Israel bus. The second attack was a car bomb that injured twelve people.

March 1996: A Tel Aviv shopping mall is the site of another suicide bombing killing twenty and injuring seventy five.

November 2000: A car bomb in Jerusalem at an outdoor market killed two people and injured ten.

June 2001: Suicide bomb attack at a Tel Aviv nightclub killing twenty-one people.

March 2002: A suicide bomber killed seven people and injured approximately thirty aboard a bus travelling from Tel Aviv to Nazareth.

June 2002: Eighteen people are killed and fifty injured in a suicide attack at the Meggido Junction.

July 2002: A double suicide attack killed five people and injured 40 in Tel Aviv.

May 2003: Three people killed and eighty-three injured in a suicide bombing at a shopping mall in Afula.

August 2003: A suicide bomber killed twenty-one people and injured over one hundred on a bus in Jerusalem.
October 2003: Suicide bomber killed twenty-two and injured sixty at a Haifa restaurant.

October 2005: A bomb detonated in a Hedera market was responsible for killing five people.

April 2006: Suicide bomb in Tel Aviv killed eleven.

January 2007: Both the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and the PIJ claim responsibility for a suicide bombing at an Eliat bakery that killed three."

Bet you are not as concerned for the victims ofIslamic Jihad

Nodin

gigino wrote: »

he had a choice. More so than some of his victims......

What victims would those be?

gigino wrote: »

.We sit here and cry about how our laws allow criminals to get away with things and complain when another state takes strong action.I am in no way condoning or condemning Isreal but lets be realistic......

Yes, you are condoning the use of torture and imprisonment without trial.

efb

Can this not be kept in politics? If it was about Torres goal it would be moved or closed!
Or is AH an occupied territory now?

dlofnep

gigino wrote: »

he had a choice.

Actually, he didn't have a choice. He was interned without charge or trial.

gigino wrote: »

More so than some of his victims.

Name one of his victims. You seem to be woefully missing the point here. He was detained without a trial. If he has done something wrong, charge him and bring it to court.

Don't accuse someone of having 'victims'. It's completely ignorant and demonstrates a lack of intellectual honesty.

gigino

dlofnep wrote: »

Actually, he didn't have a choice.

Actually, he had a choice to die or not. He had a choice to eat or to live. Nobody is denying him food. Nobody denies that Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad, and nobody denies that Islamic Jihad has killed and injured numerous people.

If a spokesperson for the 9/11 airplane hijackers was captured and decided to starve himself, would you have more sympathy for him or for the people in the towers who did not have a choice to die?

SafeSurfer

gigino wrote: »

Actually, he had a choice to die or not. He had a choice to eat or to live. Nobody is denying him food. Nobody denies that Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad, and nobody denies that Islamic Jihad has killed and injured numerous people.

If a spokesperson for the 9/11 airplane hijackers was captured and decided to starve himself, would you have more sympathy for him or for the people in the towers who did not have a choice to die?

One can be a spokesperson without having committed, or been found guilty of a crime.

Nodin

gigino wrote: »

Actually, he had a (.....) to die?

More waffle. He's not charged with any crime.

dlofnep

He is to be freed today. Looks like the Israelis decided that they had nothing to charge him on.

arybvtcw0eolkf

dlofnep wrote: »

He is to be freed today. Looks like the Israelis decided that they had nothing to charge him on.

Is he being released into Israeli medical care?.

wes

Thats good news. Hopefully, we will see Israel stop doing this sort of thing.

genericguy

wes wrote: »

The Israeli's (and tbh the US and many other Western countries), don't particularly care about the lives of Palestinians. They will claim he is a terrorists or come up with some other lie to smear him, and say he deserved to die or some other excuse. He won't be released and he will sadly die, and his name will be probably be smeared with all sorts of lies.

And all of this is a perfectly acceptable way to treat someone as long as the perpetrators are jews.

dlofnep

Jonathan Mysterious Woodchuck wrote: »

Is he being released into Israeli medical care?.

The least they owe him after detaining him without a trial or charge is the relevant care. But it's not stated either way.

dlofnep

gigino wrote: »

Actually, he had a choice to die or not. He had a choice to eat or to live. Nobody is denying him food.

He didn't die. But he did not have the choice. He was interned without trial. I'm sorry, but in a democratic and just society, if someone is guilty of a crime - then they should be charged with it.

gigino wrote: »

Nobody denies that Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad, and nobody denies that Islamic Jihad has killed and injured numerous people.

I'm not in favour of Islamo-fascism anymore than you are. Quite frankly, the world would be a better place without religion altogether. But what I am in favour is - is a fair justice system. If he is guilty of a crime, then he should be charged and given a trial. I'm not sure what part of this you don't understand.

gigino wrote: »

If a spokesperson for the 9/11 airplane hijackers was captured and decided to starve himself, would you have more sympathy for him or for the people in the towers who did not have a choice to die?

Everyone deserves to be charged with a crime and given a trial. That is why we have courts. You cannot arbitrarily pull someone up off the streets without a cause. If he is guilty of a crime, then let him serve the time - but if he has committed no crime, then let him go free. It's that simple. (But seemingly, over your head).

brimal

Glad he is being released.

Israel has some of the best hospitals in the world - hopefully he gets the treatment he needs and he makes some sort of full recovery if possible.

Nodin

genericguy wrote: »

And all of this is a perfectly acceptable way to treat someone as long as the perpetrators are jews.

Stuff and nonsense, tbh.

Nodin

A Palestinian prisoner has ended his 66-day hunger strike over his detention in a deal that will see him released in two months, Israeli officials say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17112804

They gave him a release date.....amazing you have to do that to yourself to get one.

Stereomaniac

+1

KyussBishop

Good news indeed (albeit still looks as if internment will stay a normal practice); hopefully it will be possible for him to recover fully.

Zebra3

gigino wrote: »

Actually, he had a choice to die or not. He had a choice to eat or to live. Nobody is denying him food. Nobody denies that Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad, and nobody denies that Islamic Jihad has killed and injured numerous people.

And nobody denies that Israel has killed, injured and ethnicly cleansed more poeple than IJ ever has.

gigino wrote: »

If a spokesperson for the 9/11 airplane hijackers was captured and decided to starve himself, would you have more sympathy for him or for the people in the towers who did not have a choice to die?

Why do you even ask such a stupid question? :rolleyes:

Sunnyisland

A Palestinian prisoner has ended his 66-day hunger strike over his detention by Israel in a deal that will see him released in two months, officials say.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17112804

The Israeli

I haven't followed this thread. I already wrote my opinion about this matter at other place, and I'm not coming to talk about it now.
The only thing I want to say is that before you make Mahatma Gandhi out of him, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtPQ4EqePqw

Nodin

The Israeli wrote: »

I haven't followed this thread. I already wrote my opinion about this matter at other place, and I'm not coming to talk about it now.
The only thing I want to say is that before you make Mahatma Gandhi out of him, watch this:

Your point?

The Israeli

Law is important but I wish that the Pro Palestinian people here would care more about good people rather than of those who encourage terror.
He isn't a white lamb, and might have been arrested for a good reason which couldn't be exposed.

That's my point.

It's debatable if law is always above safety, since law is strict and general.
We should all relay on law and justice but not forget that people who wrote the law couldn't have an answer to all possible exceptions.

cloptrop

He incited terrorism , how can people argue his case.
O but he didnt kill the people he just talked easily lead people into doing it for him , he doesnt deserve to go to jail and be made feel so terrible that he cant eat.

Nodin

The Israeli wrote: »

Law is important but I wish that the Pro Palestinian people here would care more about good people rather than of those who encourage terror..

He wasn't charged with anything.

The Israeli wrote: »

He isn't a white lamb, and might have been arrested for a good reason which couldn't be exposed...

Allow me to bring up something which is occassionally pussy footed around.

While "Islamic Jihad" are hardly a bunch of saints, the fact is that Israel is an aggressor, is illegally colonising territory outside its borders, brutalises that population to its own ends, and has done so with little or no consequence since 1967.

Therefore the whole notion of Israel and 'good reasons' require an acceptance of certain prerequisite notions that the majority of us - regardless of opinions on this organisation - reject. When the IDF is defending an Israeli state that observes its legally recognised borders, get back to me.

The Israeli wrote: »

It's debatable if law is always above safety, since law is strict and general.
We should all relay on law and justice but not forget that people who wrote the law couldn't have an answer to all possible exceptions.

....you could use that argument for suicide bombing in the Palestinian context.

The Israeli

Nodin wrote: »

....you could use that argument for suicide bombing in the Palestinian context.

You are comparing an arrest with suicide bombings..

Or attacks on Israeli cities by rockets with attacks of IDF air force on terror activists in populated areas.

but we are going off topic here. I posted the video so that people here won't make a mistake and think that Israel jailed Mahatma Gandhi 2.

CrackisWhack

The Israeli wrote: »

Law is important but I wish that the Pro Palestinian people here would care more about good people rather than of those who encourage terror.
He isn't a white lamb, and might have been arrested for a good reason which couldn't be exposed.

That's my point.

It's debatable if law is always above safety, since law is strict and general.
We should all relay on law and justice but not forget that people who wrote the law couldn't have an answer to all possible exceptions.

I think your point is quite contradictory , I think the "Pro Palestinian" people here, who air their views, are here to defend good people, ie. The vast majority of the Palestinian people.

The Israeli

CrackisWhack wrote: »

I think your point is quite contradictory , I think the "Pro Palestinian" people here, who air their views, are here to defend good people, ie. The vast majority of the Palestinian people.

I wish the vast majority of the Palestinians all good. I have something only against the minority of people like the guy in the thread.

Nodin

The Israeli wrote: »

You are comparing an arrest with suicide bombings..

Your logic, actually.

Considering the standard of "justice" meted out in trials of Palestinians in the OT, it really is a bizzarre affair where they didn't charge him. I presume it's because they realise that the lack of a release date has a bad affect on the man for some reason, which fucks with him more than a definite sentence might.

I posted the video so that people here won't make a mistake and think that Israel jailed Mahatma Gandhi 2.

'spokesman for Islamic Jihad' would tend to do that anyway.

And of course we don't here about the peaceful protestors they jail, unless they were to go on hunger strike, presumably....
http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/12/israelwest-bank-jail-peaceful-protesters

humanji

cloptrop wrote: »

He incited terrorism , how can people argue his case.
O but he didnt kill the people he just talked easily lead people into doing it for him , he doesnt deserve to go to jail and be made feel so terrible that he cant eat.

By saying that one human life is worth less than another, you are no different to those you are condemning.

gigino

He incited terrorism , how can people argue his case?

He was filmed speaking to a rally shouting in to a microphone encouraging people to become suicide bombers etc. Nobody denies that Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad, and nobody denies that Islamic Jihad has killed and injured numerous people. If he chooses to starve himself to death then good riddance to him I say. Pity he had not the guts to kill himself, seeing as he was caught on video encouraging others to kill themselves ( and others ) with explosive belts.

To those who think he's a grand fellow altogether, would you sit next to him on an aeroplane? I bet not, but you think others should? Hippocrite.

bobmalooka

gigino wrote: »

He incited terrorism , how can people argue his case?

He was filmed speaking to a rally shouting in to a microphone encouraging people to become suicide bombers etc. Nobody denies that Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad, and nobody denies that Islamic Jihad has killed and injured numerous people. If he chooses to starve himself to death then good riddance to him I say. Pity he had not the guts to kill himself, seeing as he was caught on video encouraging others to kill themselves ( and others ) with explosive belts.

To those who think he's a grand fellow altogether, would you sit next to him on an aeroplane? I bet not, but you think others should? Hippocrite.

Then he should be charged with this and given an appropriate punishment if found guilty.

There is no argument strong enough to convince any right minded person that detention without trial is acceptable.

cloptrop

He should have been shot on sight , never mind given a trial.

Ricardo G

At least he did'nt have to wait 3-4 mins for a takeaway that turned out be slightly cold

dlofnep

gigino wrote: »

He incited terrorism , how can people argue his case?

He was filmed speaking to a rally shouting in to a microphone encouraging people to become suicide bombers etc. Nobody denies that Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa is a spokesman for Islamic Jihad, and nobody denies that Islamic Jihad has killed and injured numerous people. If he chooses to starve himself to death then good riddance to him I say. Pity he had not the guts to kill himself, seeing as he was caught on video encouraging others to kill themselves ( and others ) with explosive belts.

To those who think he's a grand fellow altogether, would you sit next to him on an aeroplane? I bet not, but you think others should? Hippocrite.

You really are intellectually challenged, aren't you? It's been pointed out to you a billion times in this thread that nobody is defending him - we are highlighting that if he has committed a crime, then he should be charged and have it brought to trial. This seems to be conveniently going above your head repeatedly. Wise up, and stop being obtuse.

If he is calling for suicide bombings, then CHARGE HIM with it. It's that simple.

gigino

bobmalooka wrote: »

There is no argument strong enough to convince any right minded person that detention without trial is acceptable.

DeValera detained known IRA men here in the 26 counties during " the emergency" . Some even died. And there was no big outcry about that as they were seen as a threat to society. You think Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa, the spokesman for Islamic Jihad, who was caught on film publically inciting others to terrorism as a rally, is not a threat to society and cannot be interned for a month or 2 ? You are more concerned about someone like that than an 6 year old girl and her family killed by a suicide bomber...even when Khader Adnan Mohammad Musa condones the murder of more civilians?

bobmalooka

cloptrop wrote: »

He should have been shot on sight , never mind given a trial.

good man.

I'm sorry I have no more troll food.

good night

gigino

dlofnep wrote: »

If he is calling for suicide bombings, then CHARGE HIM with it. It's that simple.

I am sure the Israelis have their reasons. Did DeValera charge the IRA men he imprisoned during the emergency?

The government responded with the 1939 and 1940 Offences Against the State Acts, which established the Special Criminal Court, and rearrested and interned IRA activists. A hunger strike was started in Mountjoy Prison in an attempt to gain political status, which collapsed after the death of two prisoners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(Ireland)#The_IRA_and_The_Emergency

You think the spokesman for Islamic Jihad ( see his video inciting others to commit terrorism a page or 2 back ) deserves great sympathy? Let him rot in jail for a few months - or even a few years - while the state Authorities build the case for his trial. If he wants to starve himself then no big loss.

dlofnep

Nope, you still don't get it - do you? If he is guilty of a crime, then charge him with the said crime and bring it to the courts. And no - I don't agree that interning anyone, be it in Ireland or in Israel is valid or necessary. In fact, it does quite the opposite. In the north, the internment of innocent people fueled a recruitment drive for the IRA, as they grew weary with the failure of the British state to implement a fair and accountable justice system. In the same manner, Israel's injustice towards the Palestinian people only pours fuel on the fire and encourages them to take up arms against the Israeli state.

You seem to think that anyone who feels this man warrants a trial is sympathising with Islamic Jihad. That is simply not the case, and it is intellectually dishonest to present it as such.

lividduck

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17112804

They gave him a release date.....amazing you have to do that to yourself to get one.

Actually he was given that date on the day he was placed in detention, obviously he didnt have the stomach for the suicide that he so happily urged others to commit.
His hunger strike gained him nothing other than exposure as the coward and hypocrite that he is.

lividduck

dlofnep wrote: »

He is to be freed today. Looks like the Israelis decided that they had nothing to charge him on.

Wrong he will be released on april 17th, the date that his 4 month detention was due to end.
despite urging others to commit suicide (and kill as many bus pannengers as possible doing it) he lacked the courage to do it himself.
Israel has drawn a line in the sand, they will not be blackmailed by terrorists.

gigino

dlofnep wrote: »

You seem to think that anyone who feels this man warrants a trial is sympathising with Islamic Jihad.

No, give him a trial by all means. He does not deny he incites violence/terrorism I take it, judging by his brazen attitude on the video a few pages back. If he decides to starve himself while he is in detention, he gets no sympathy from me. I have sympathy for men women and children on a bus blown up by a suicide bomber, not for the lifestyle of the man who encourages others to blow up said buses etc with explosive belts.
Ever see a 5 year old girl blinded and with her leg blown off by a suicide bomber?

4 months detention is too short for that fellow, and he had not even the manners to eat the food he was given during that time.

KyussBishop

A legal system which can imprison a person without charge or a trial is the sign of a fundamentally corrupt system which can (and in this case is) used to imprison literally anyone, for no reason at all.

If you defend Israel's imprisonment of Khader Adnan, you are basically defending exactly that kind of a corrupt system.
If Israel had imprisoned Hitler himself brought back to life, without charge or trial, that would be a fundamental corruption of the legal system.

What on earth is hard to understand or disagreeable about the principle that, no matter what someones crime is, they deserve to be charged and put on trial before their rights are revoked?

cloptrop

KyussBishop wrote: »

A legal system which can imprison a person without charge or a trial is the sign of a fundamentally corrupt system which can (and in this case is) used to imprison literally anyone, for no reason at all.

If you defend Israel's imprisonment of Khader Adnan, you are basically defending exactly that kind of a corrupt system.
If Israel had imprisoned Hitler himself brought back to life, without charge or trial, that would be a fundamental corruption of the legal system.

What on earth is hard to understand or disagreeable about the principle that, no matter what someones crime is, they deserve to be charged and put on trial before their rights are revoked?

Im sure there are more deserving people for your crusade than this murderer

wes

cloptrop wrote: »

Im sure there are more deserving people for your crusade than this murderer

Who did he murder? Even the Israeli's have never charged him with murder.

cloptrop

wes wrote: »

Who did he murder? Even the Israeli's have never charged him with murder.

He enticed people to suicide bomb themselves. Thats murder if you ask me .

KyussBishop

cloptrop wrote: »

Im sure there are more deserving people for your crusade than this murderer

lol, crusade (not quite how I'd define one of the founding principles of almost any countries legal system)....ok, you must be deliberately evading/ignoring the point; to state it more directly: you support the idea that peoples rights can be taken away, and a person imprisoned, without any charge or trial.

I don't state it as a question, because that's what you're defending.