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Palestinian hunger striker - 61 days, detained without charge, near death

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Comments

  • #252
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/401391_365859786765888_116311335054069_1340569_1314029063_n.jpg

    Solidarity with the hunger striker is in this picture.

    Colonists in hebron having stuff thrown at them? There's a bit of a turn around.


  • #253
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    So that means that she brought it on herself?!

    She has "honestly" earned the possibility of being stoned to death by 12-18 years old violent smiling assholes who act beside adult journalists who are filming and seeking sensations.
    Or that woman would drive by with only damage to the car, or she would be killed by stones or glass, or an Israeli soldier will shoot them and then there would be a headline in the news: "An Israeli soldier shot and wounded (or killed) a Palestinian demonstrator for the cause of the poor hunger striker who happens to be a Islamic Jihad leader (peaceful of course)..

    The comedy, and you are a part of it Nodin and wes. In the cycle of backuping terror through noble intentions.


  • #254
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    The Israeli wrote: »
    So that means that she brought it on herself?!

    No one said that, or anything to that effect.

    I was providing context. The area see's a lot of violence from Israeli settlers, something you would like not to be mentioned apparently.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    She has "honestly" earned the possibility of being stoned to death by 12-18 years old violent smiling assholes who act beside adult journalists who are filming and seeking sensations.

    Well, your country has no issues when your violent smiling assholes are doing it, as per the rather large IDF force which allows them to attack Palestinians with impunity. Having said that there is no justification for the violence, but if you want to ignore the fact that most of the violence in Hebron is by Israeli settlers then go right ahead.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Or that woman would drive by with only damage to the car, or she would be killed by stones or glass, or an Israeli soldier will shoot them and then there would be a headline in the news: "An Israeli soldier shot and wounded (or killed) a Palestinian demonstrator for the cause of the poor hunger striker who happens to be a Islamic Jihad leader (peaceful of course)..

    The IDF regularly protect settlers engage in violence against Palestinians firstly. Again, something you rather people not know.

    Also, there is no proof that he was a Islamic Jihad leader, but then its not like you ever need any facts to make an accusation.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    The comedy, and you are a part of it Nodin and wes. In the cycle of backuping terror through noble intentions.

    I did not such thing. Just explained the overall violent situation caused by extremist settlers, whom are protected by the IDF. I know you would prefer that no one ever point out Israeli violence, but I see no reason to not point it out. You have a habit of ignoring your countries violence against Palestinians, just pointing out what is going in Hebron, which is where Israeli settlers are responsible for the vast majority of violence, and your country refuses to remove these illegal settlers, to stop there violence, and even actively protects violent settlers.


  • #255
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    So that means that she brought it on herself?!......intentions.

    Funny enough, by being part of a colonial enterprise, yes. That's Palestinian territory. They go there not for shopping trips and the scenery, but to take palestinian land and hold it, with the long term goal of having Israel expand its borders to encompass it. Settlers are not some bunch of lovable scamps - they're as fanatic as anything in Islamic Jihad. If you're an adult, you can be a settler, or a civillian, but not both.

    As for people sitting around....there seems to be a lot of that in the IDF when the 'Wreck the Olive Harvest' season falls due. And the fun and games of the 'walk past the settlers to school' run.


  • #256
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,949 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Terrorism in Hebron.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre


  • #257
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    That poor woman in the car, how do people use these peoples propaganda and not believe Isreals propaganda.
    This is a gang of rabid animals trying to stone a poor defenceless woman possibly to death but its ok because they are downpressed.
    If these people were arrested and locked up for 4 months I dont see the need for a piece of paper saying they are charged with something .
    The Isreali courts are probably backed up worse than the copper face jacks toilets having to deal with scum like this .
    If keeping law and order means rushing a few inciters through the system , I say fair play , internment all round.


  • #258
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Terrorism in Hebron.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre[/QUOTE]

    Surely you cant blame the isreali government for the acts of one madman. Should the american government be blamed every time a kid shoots up the school.


  • #259
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Zebra, Nodin, wes and all my good friends..

    I have condemned not once everything that isn't just. You almost never.
    That's the difference. That's why I say that you help to make the problem worse than it is by taking only one side.

    When you say that a guy was hurt without a reason, I say you are right. I wish it didn't happen. How could we prevent it, and was there any reason to why it has happened. I might add something unjust from the other side to balance.

    You never do that. If internet forums could speak all I would be hearing is from you yelling. That's how I imagine that.

    Can't you see what is going on in the picture?
    Violent youth that has no respect to other people's life. I so doubt that they were thinking about anything other than how cool it would be to see that rock going through the windshield and that woman gets covered with blood.

    You are thinking way beyond!!! Expecting from you to condemn this is probably too much. You are too deep in Wikipedia, proving history and bringing up sources, that you forget the basics like just thinking: "what the heck are they doing".

    I can and I do play your game too (facts and sources) but it's a pitty that that's all you do.


  • #260
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Zebra, Nodin.....(.......).....d sources) but it's a pitty that that's all you do.

    These people are a vast part of the problem. The Israeli government backs them. They are colonising a territory outside their states legal borders, the majority of them for reasons of religous fanaticism. You, for whatever reason, have ambivalent feelings towards them, some of us don't.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    That poor woman in the car, how do people use these peoples propaganda and not believe Isreals propaganda....... .

    Do you know what the settlements are?


  • #261
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,949 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do you know what the settlements are?

    They are illegal colonies.

    And that is actually how they should be referred to as.


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  • #262
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Yeah I bet if they announced a ceasefire tomorrow it wouldnt last , theres just too much hate going on , these are just two extremesists wanting to kill each other. I doubt its the ideals of every isreali to kill palestinians.
    Id say the government although wanting to hold onto the land arnt as bad as they are made out, Id say its closer to the likes of the uk holding onto northern Ireland rather than a crazy combineharvester government burning raping and pillaging.
    Maybe they just tried moving these people to keep them apart . Unless your there you cant tell .
    Like most americans think we are all involved in a war of independance when 90 percent of people could nt really give a piss to be honest. Id say they same goes on here, just two sides of extremeists recking the fun for everyone


  • #263
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Yeah I bet......recking the fun for everyone

    You aren't too well informed on this, are you?


  • #264
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Well, personally I condemn the sanctioning of suicide bombing and launching a stone through someones windshield; I condemn any violence.
    Many posters here completely refuse to condemn Israel's actions though, and specifically support the idea of imprisonment without trial, and without even accusation.

    Essentially what people defending Israel here are supporting right now, due to the extent and practice of Israel's internment laws, is the idea that a countries government should be allowed to imprison anybody, for literally no reason, and with no consequence.
    Literally Anyone.

    This is the power the Israeli government have granted themselves, yet people still defend it; it is the most fundamental corruption of a countries legal system.


    If anyone claims not to support that, then state your position clearly by condemning it.


  • #265
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    cloptrop wrote: »
    If these people were arrested and locked up for 4 months I dont see the need for a piece of paper saying they are charged with something .

    So no trials for Palestinians. It amazing that you are so gung ho in defending a racist system where Israelis get trials (if there even arrested, as they are often not) but Palestinians do not.

    Israelis get away with attacking Palestinian on a regular basis in Hebron, and nothing is done by Israel. The fact that you seem to want to resort to barbarism of having no trials is amazing.


  • #266
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    The Israeli wrote: »
    I have condemned not once everything that isn't just. You almost never.
    That's the difference. That's why I say that you help to make the problem worse than it is by taking only one side.

    Thats a nasty little bit of fiction. I already clearly said that violence was not justified. BTW, I would say you rarely actually mention Israeli violence, and you seem to think the West Bank belongs to Israel, which btw is an extremist position.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    When you say that a guy was hurt without a reason, I say you are right. I wish it didn't happen. How could we prevent it, and was there any reason to why it has happened. I might add something unjust from the other side to balance.

    No you don't. You posted a picture, and offered no balance. To pretend that you do otherwise after the fact is pretty damn funny.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    You never do that. If internet forums could speak all I would be hearing is from you yelling. That's how I imagine that.

    Coming from a guy who posted a single picture of Palestinian attacking a car in Hebron, despite the fact that the majority of violence in Hebron is by Israeli settlers, who are protected by the IDF while doing so. TBH, you are engaging in some pretty major hypocrisy.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Can't you see what is going on in the picture?

    Palestinians are attacking an Israeli settlers. I clearly understood what was happening, so your question is pretty pointless.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Violent youth that has no respect to other people's life.

    And when the violent youths and violent adults are Israeli settlers the IDF protects them, while they attack Palestinians.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    I so doubt that they were thinking about anything other than how cool it would be to see that rock going through the windshield and that woman gets covered with blood.

    Your a mind reader now? There is no way you can know what they were thinking the basis of a single photo, and to suggest that you even have a clue is laughable. All we know is that they attacked the car.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    You are thinking way beyond!!!

    Yes, How dare I offer context for the violence in Hebron, where the vast, vast majority is committed by Israeli settlers, who the IDF protect. I know you want to ignore the main reason for the violence, you know the whole colonization project and the occupation, but sorry I just can't do that.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Expecting from you to condemn this is probably too much.

    I already said the violence was wrong earlier:
    wes wrote: »
    Having said that there is no justification for the violence, but if you want to ignore the fact that most of the violence in Hebron is by Israeli settlers then go right ahead.

    What part of there is no justification of violence do you not understand exactly?
    The Israeli wrote: »
    You are too deep in Wikipedia, proving history and bringing up sources, that you forget the basics like just thinking: "what the heck are they doing".

    You clearly don't understand what providing extra information to explain the context of Hebron, where its Israeli settlers engaged in the vast majority of violence, and being protected by the IDF. Again, I know you have a huge issue with context for some bizare reason, but I think the fact that Israeli settlers regularly attack Palestinian in Hebron with complete impunity, may have a little something to do with the violence. Now, here is an idea, maybe just maybe, if those illegal settlers were removed, there may be some chance of peace.....
    The Israeli wrote: »
    I can and I do play your game too (facts and sources) but it's a pitty that that's all you do.

    No, you can't. You deny basics facts of the conflict, like the fact that Israeli has no right to the Palestinian territories for example:
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Just regarding the Occupation again: There is no occupation in the west bank, since there hasn't been any legal owner of the lands since 48 (I mean to any of the countries).

    Sorry, but you clearly hold an extremist position, where you deny a well established fact, that is accepted by everyone, except extremist zionists. So it would be simply impossible for you play any kind of game involving facts, as you are happy to deny them, when it suits your extremist views.


  • #267
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    cloptrop wrote: »
    That poor woman in the car, how do people use these peoples propaganda and not believe Isreals propaganda.
    This is a gang of rabid animals trying to stone a poor defenceless woman possibly to death but its ok because they are downpressed.
    If these people were arrested and locked up for 4 months I dont see the need for a piece of paper saying they are charged with something .
    The Isreali courts are probably backed up worse than the copper face jacks toilets having to deal with scum like this .
    If keeping law and order means rushing a few inciters through the system , I say fair play , internment all round.

    You hit the nail on the head there.


  • #268
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    gigino wrote: »
    You hit the nail on the head there.

    So your ok with one rule for Israeli and another for Palestinians? No law and order for Palestinians, where Israeli settlers attack with complete impunity. I am starting to see a pattern here.


  • #269
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    No law and order from certain Palestinians, who kill whenever they can.
    The hunger striker is on video speaking at a rally ( link earlier ) enticing Palestinians to wear explosive belts and kill Israelis. He also incites shooting Jews. Charming lad. You think thats ok, and its ok for Palestinians to throw rock through the windscreen of a civilian vehicle driven by a woman. I am starting to see a pattern here.


  • #270
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    gigino wrote: »
    No law and order from certain Palestinians, who kill whenever they can.

    Your now against law and order? Nice of you to admit that. You know civilized people, find out if someone is guilty via something called a trial. You apparently think there guilty on accusation alone.

    BTW, Why have you not addressed the fact that you support a clearly racist system with one rule for Israeli's and one for Palestinians? Why have completely ignored that fact? Do you think Palestinians deserve fewer rights than Israelis? I am rather puzzled by you completely ignoring fact of the racist system that you so gun ho about supporting.
    gigino wrote: »
    The hunger striker is on video speaking at a rally ( link earlier ) enticing Palestinians to wear explosive belts and kill Israelis. He also incites shooting Jews. Charming lad.

    A youtube video, which could easily have a fake translation or edited. If you look at the youtube user who posted that video, they only upload Anti-Palestinain video's. I would hardly call it a trust worthy source personally.

    Also, if that video was accurate, then why did the Israeli's not you know charge him, seeing as there is such conclusive evidence out there. Rather odd that, don't you think? Care to explain that one.
    gigino wrote: »
    You think thats ok,

    No, I don't think that ok. However, you did thank a post inciting murder earlier. So your aren't one to judge.
    gigino wrote: »
    and its ok for Palestinians to throw rock through the windscreen of a civilian vehicle driven by a woman.

    I said the otherwise earlier:
    wes wrote: »
    Having said that there is no justification for the violence, but if you want to ignore the fact that most of the violence in Hebron is by Israeli settlers then go right ahead.

    You aren't very good at this.....
    gigino wrote: »
    I am starting to see a pattern here.

    A pattern you made up ;).


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  • #271
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    wes wrote: »
    Your now against law and order? Nice of you to admit that.

    No, I am very much for law and order. Your friend who you admire who advocates explosive belts + shooting Israelis etc is not for the type of law and order I like. If you like his style of Islamic Jihad law there that is your preference.


  • #272
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gigino wrote: »
    No, I am very much for law and order........

    ...law and order DeValera style, t'would appear.


  • #273
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    gigino wrote: »
    No, I am very much for law and order.

    You clearly stated the following:
    gigino wrote: »
    No law and order from certain Palestinians, who kill whenever they can.

    Also, law and order includes trials. Since you are against trials, you are against law and order.

    You also support a racist system, that treat Palestinians far harsher than Israelis, on the sole basis of there race. Law and order, would include equality before the law. The system you support does not include this.

    So in conclusion, you do not support law and order at all. You just say you do. What you support is the sort of the thing that tyrants have used all through history.
    gigino wrote: »
    Your friend who you admire

    He is not my friend, nor do I admire him, no have I said any words to that effect. Why you would choose to lie in such a blatant manner is beyond me.
    gigino wrote: »
    who advocates explosive belts + shooting Israelis etc

    If that was true, then why was he not charged for doing so? Also, why do you ignore that question? Its a simple question, why do you refuse to answer it.
    gigino wrote: »
    is not for the type of law and order I like.

    No one said such things were law and order...... You really are grasping at straws.
    gigino wrote: »
    If you like his style of Islamic Jihad law there that is your preference.

    Your not making any sense at all, seriously "Islamic Jihad Law" wtf are you on about. BTW, I already said I was against any such incitement. You on the other hand have no issues thanking post that engage in such incitement, so again your in no position to judge in anyways.

    Also, you clearly have no issues with an Israeli system, that allows Israeli settlers near complete impunity to attack Palestinians, and a system that has different rules on the basis of a persons race. This is not law and order, and is in fact the opposite, as evidence by the ongoing conflict.


  • #274
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    gigino wrote: »
    No, I am very much for law and order. Your friend who you admire who advocates explosive belts + shooting Israelis etc is not for the type of law and order I like. If you like his style of Islamic Jihad law there that is your preference.
    You support imprisoning people for no reason at all, no trial, no charge, not even an accusation.
    If you say you don't, I challenge you to condemn Israel for doing exactly that.

    It's a pretty binary situation, you either support that or you don't. If you can't answer that in a straight forward manner, or if you evade/ignore that, it's a pretty clear sign you haven't got any honest argument to put forward.


  • #275
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    wes wrote: »
    So no trials for Palestinians. It amazing that you are so gung ho in defending a racist system where Israelis get trials (if there even arrested, as they are often not) but Palestinians do not.

    Israelis get away with attacking Palestinian on a regular basis in Hebron, and nothing is done by Israel. The fact that you seem to want to resort to barbarism of having no trials is amazing.
    Wes have you got proof that there isnt any Isrealis detained without charge in the whole Isreali penal system? If so Id like to see this proof, you must have a list of every Isreali in prison in Isreal. If you dont have this proof I must concurr you are finding the Isreali government guilty without a chance of charging them.


  • #276
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Wes have you got proof that there isnt any Isrealis detained without charge in the whole Isreali penal system?

    I made no such claim actually. My claim was in regards to the occupied territories.
    cloptrop wrote: »
    If so Id like to see this proof, you must have a list of every Isreali in prison in Isreal.

    How would that prove anything? Having a list of every Israeli in prison, wouldn't tell you whether they had a trial or not. Seriously, you really are very bad at this. You entire request is shambolic. You really didn't think this through did you? Finally, I was referring to occupied territories, and not all of Israel.

    As for proof (something you have yet to provide at all):

    Dual system of law

    As you can see Israeli settlers are charged under Israeli civil courts, which can't intern people. Palestinians are charged under military courts that can.
    cloptrop wrote: »
    If you dont have this proof I must concurr you are finding the Isreali government guilty without a chance of charging them.

    I am sorry, but I am not a court. You see a court is held to far higher standard of evidence, than a message board. To even attempt to compare the 2 is nothing short of absurd.

    Your post is farce, as has you entire position. You don't believe in the need to prove anything, and then you demand proof from me. Sorry, but that is hypocrisy.

    So I take you deny the existence of an unequal system of justice then? Amazing that there are people who will happily defend such a racist system.

    Quick question, why does a Palestinian deserve to be judged by a far harsher system of justice? Also, why do you refuse to acknowledge the existence of this system?

    Now seeing as I was so nice to answer you rather ridiculous questions, I take you will do me the courtesy of answering my not so silly question.


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  • #277
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Wes I havnt bothered reading another multiquote report from you they tire me.
    The reason I asked for the list of every isreali detainee is because if you are the detective you claim to be, and not just a wikipedia merchant , you would have started with isrealis in jail ,,,,,,,,lets call it exhibit a
    If you had exhibit a I may put credibility to your account of your findings, but you dont have exhibit a , you have a wikipedia report.
    We all know wiki is anti american Wes, Lay off the hash ,
    SET MY PEOPLE FREE
    I believe an isreali said this
    His name was moses.


  • #278
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Wes I havnt bothered reading another multiquote report from you they tire me.

    Ok, well I won't respond to you from here on out. You are going on my block list. You asked me a question, and you don't even do me the common courtesy of reading the answer. You also didn't do me the common courtesy of answering my questions. You also are engage in massive hypocrisy as you have not provide a single shred of proof for you farcical claims.
    cloptrop wrote: »
    The reason I asked for the list of every isreali detainee is because if you are the detective you claim to be, and not just a wikipedia merchant , you would have started with isrealis in jail ,,,,,,,,lets call it exhibit a
    If you had exhibit a I may put credibility to your account of your findings,

    I never claimed to be detective. You really need to stop telling lies about other posters.

    Secondly, I don't need a list of every Israeli prisoner. I provided the proof you asked for (which you didn't even check, hence not even knowing where the link I posted was from). You clearly wish to deny reality, as it doesn't suit you.

    Also, you are being hypocritical, as you made it clear, that no proof is needed via your support for internment without evidence.
    cloptrop wrote: »
    but you dont have exhibit a , you have a wikipedia report.

    The link wasn't from Wikipedia. You didn't even click the link. You have 0 credibility at this point.
    cloptrop wrote: »
    We all know wiki is anti american Wes, Lay off the hash ,

    WTF?
    cloptrop wrote: »
    I believe an isreali said this
    His name was moses.

    Again WTF?


  • #279
    ed2hands
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    He is being described as a terrorist in the New York Times:


    "In today's New York Times report (2/22/12) about Khader Adnan--the Palestinian hunger striker challenging Israeli "administrative detention" practices--reporter Isabel Kershner allows this:
    An Israeli official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, called the deal over Mr. Adnan "a workable arrangement" since ultimately he will be almost completing his four-month term of detention.
    "We faced a dilemma," the official said. "On the one hand we did not want any harm to come to him, or the wider danger in that. On the other hand it is not healthy to set a precedent that every time a Palestinian terrorist goes on hunger strike, he gets a get-out-of-jail-free pass."
    The "deal" is a reference to Israel's offer to free Adnan by mid-April.
    The anonymous Israeli official is declaring Adnan a terrorist. If Israeli officials know this to be the case, they need not detain him without charge. They could bring a case against him for being a terrorist.
    The Times is granting anonymity to a government official to declare Adnan is a criminal. This violates, among other things, the Times' own standards on granting anonymity.
    And earlier this month the Times granted anonymity to a U.S. official who equated journalists who report on civilian casualties in Pakistan to Al-Qaeda sympathizers: "Let's be under no illusions--there are a number of elements who would like nothing more than to malign these efforts and help Al-Qaeda succeed."
    Is the Times' new policy on anonymity is that it should be granted rarely, but that a special exception be granted for government officials who want to smear those who challenge their power?
    http://www.fair.org/blog/2012/02/22/new-nyt-rule-anonymous-govt-sources-can-call-their-critics-terrorists/


  • #280
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    cloptrop wrote: »
    I believe an isreali said this
    His name was moses.
    He was born in Egypt,wasn't he?


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