petition - cats reclassified from vermin

aN.Droid

Traonach wrote: »

If there was ever a cull/bounty put on feral cats there would be one big problem. You would have rednecks shooting ever cat around irrespective of whether the cats were feral or domestic cats.

Easy solution is to have "cat catchers" that would be employed by the state to do the dirty work, they would get paid the same irrespective of there cull numbers.

Traonach

Limericks wrote: »

Easy solution is to have "cat catchers" that would be employed by the state to do the dirty work, they would get paid the same irrespective of there cull numbers.

If they were public sector "cat catchers" they would probably catch one cat a year, if there was no incentive.

Cherry Blossom

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

This is what happens when people jump blindly into things without doing any proper analysis. It will be at least another week before I decide whether or not to add my name to the list.

I rest my case, perhaps you might wait and see what the outcome of this debacle results in before throwing around torrents of abuse at people who are mearly stating the facts under the guise of your very apt user-name angrykitten. How much knowlege do you have on how government policies and legislation is drawn up?

I could have quite happily not bothered pointing out this huge hole and let people continue to sign their names, however it's in my nature to encourage people to use their brain and make informed decisions, especially when their actions are likely to cause the opposite effect to what they want. My post is there - people can read it or not, dismiss it or not - that's entirely up to them, and if it doesn't go the way you want, I won't even say 'I told you so' because I'll be happy enough already that at least the problem has been noted and someone has taken ownership of it. If it does go the way you want, I'll stand corrected. I don't have any problem with that.

What exactly is it you want feral cats classified as? They aren't classified as anything at the minute which is the precise reason they are afforded so many liberties under current non-existent law and if they are to be classed as pets why would regulation differ from any other species of pets? I'm not expecting you to answer this question, just figure it out for yourself and recognise what the result of that will be.

angry kitten

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Well where would you suggest the money comes from? Realistly a cull would be the best option to solve the problem of feral cats

Again I would suggest that people learn a little about what trap neuter and release actually involves. Their seems to be some sort of perception that cats are just neutered and dumped back where they were found, this is not the case. A cull is a ridiculous an inhumane solution.

aN.Droid

angry kitten wrote: »

Again I would suggest that people learn a little about what trap neuter and release actually involves. Their seems to be some sort of perception that cats are just neutered and dumped back where they were found, this is not the case. A cull is a ridiculous an inhumane solution.

But sadly that is what happens to dog's and like what has already been said, why should cat's be allowed any different allowances?

angry kitten

Limericks wrote: »

What about stray dogs? Lets have them have free run of the streets aswell, as long as they are neutered there is no problem right?

Your talking about an entirely different situation. How would you identify a stray dog in Ireland? Their is a mentality in Ireland that it is absolutely fine to let a dog roam the streets, mainly as the owners are too lazy to walk them. Dog wardens don't drive around looking for roaming dogs. They're too busy trying to deal with cruelty and neglect cases on insufficient funds. Most of the animal charities in this country fund their work from charitable donations from the public.

angry kitten

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I rest my case, perhaps you might wait and see what the outcome of this debacle results in before throwing around torrents of abuse at people who are mearly stating the facts under the guise of your very apt user-name angrykitten. How much knowlege do you have on how government policies and legislation is drawn up?

I could have quite happily not bothered pointing out this huge hole and let people continue to sign their names, however it's in my nature to encourage people to use their brain and make informed decisions, especially when their actions are likely to cause the opposite effect to what they want. My post is there - people can read it or not, dismiss it or not - that's entirely up to them, and if it doesn't go the way you want, I won't even say 'I told you so' because I'll be happy enough already that at least the problem has been noted and someone has taken ownership of it. If it does go the way you want, I'll stand corrected. I don't have any problem with that.

What exactly is it you want feral cats classified as? They aren't classified as anything at the minute which is the precise reason they are afforded so many liberties under current non-existent law and if they are to be classed as pets why would regulation differ from any other species of pets? I'm not expecting you to answer this question, just figure it out for yourself and recognise what the result of that will be.

As I said adrenalinjunkie, you seem to have little knowledge of the Trap neuter and release schemes operated by animal charities in Ireland. However it hasn't stopped you pontificating to the rest of us. They are classified as vermin.

kylith

angry kitten wrote: »

As I said adrenalinjunkie, you seem to have little knowledge of the Trap neuter and release schemes operated by animal charities in Ireland. However it hasn't stopped you pontificating to the rest of us. They are classified as vermin.

Explain it to us then.

Cherry Blossom

angry kitten wrote: »

As I said adrenalinjunkie, you seem to have little knowledge of the Trap neuter and release schemes operated by animal charities in Ireland. However it hasn't stopped you pontificating to the rest of us. They are classified as vermin.

Supply a link to the relevant legislation please that classifies cats as vermin.

Since you seem to have knowledge of how TNR operates in this country why don't you enlighten us?

FYI - Dog wardens are employed by the state to enforce control of dogs legislation, they are in no way associated with animal welfare, a lot of them can't even stand the sight of dogs.

angry kitten

Limericks wrote: »

But sadly that is what happens to dog's and like what has already been said, why should cat's be allowed any different allowances?

We're talking about 2 entirely different species. There is an appalling lack of funding for animal welfare and a sad lack of legislation for animal rights or welfare in Ireland. There are many voluntary animal rescues saving dogs from pounds in this country. Many cats and dogs from Ireland are rehomed in loving homes in the UK and Europe by animal charities. I'd love to see communities pulling together to help unwanted animals abandoned in their communities. Instead of the old cat versus dog argument. I think people in this country have lost their sense of community. Charity starts at home. A feral cat is a cat that has to fend for itself because it has nobody else to care for it.

angry kitten

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Supply a link to the relevant legislation please that classifies cats as vermin.

Since you seem to have knowledge of how TNR operates in this country why don't you enlighten us?

Why too lazy to research the subject yourselves? But yet you have so much to say on the subject! Instead of the cynicism perhaps you could have a look at the websites of some of your local animal rescue charities and see what work they do. Maybe you could volunteer in some way, perhaps you'd have a different perspective. But then again maybe not.

gufnork

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Supply a link to the relevant legislation please that classifies cats as vermin.

Since you seem to have knowledge of how TNR operates in this country why don't you enlighten us?

I have a link regarding this issue here. It's on the Dublin SPCA website. Section 15 The Protection of Animals Act 1911.

Chuck Stone

There was a neighbour of my parents who used to throw stones at cats who walked along his back wall.

What a sad, bored, little brow-beaten man he was.

If people are getting upset about cats doing what cats naturally do then I suggest they look inward and try to figure out exactly why it is they get so upset over something so trivial as a cat passing through your garden.

If people really are that bored and frustrated and have control issues then a little investment in cat-proofing your garden will save you from the psychological trauma.

Either that or go see a psychiatrist.

gufnork

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Supply a link to the relevant legislation please that classifies cats as vermin.

Since you seem to have knowledge of how TNR operates in this country why don't you enlighten us?

FYI - Dog wardens are employed by the state to enforce control of dogs legislation, they are in no way associated with animal welfare, a lot of them can't even stand the sight of dogs.

I suggest you take a look at Ennis Dog Pounds website or Facebook page. Frankie Coot is the dog warden for Clare. He also works with MANY of the Clare animal rescue charities. Clearly you haven't done your research adrenalinjunkie. The Job description of Dog Warden differs greatly to what you imagine.

Cherry Blossom

angry kitten wrote: »

Why too lazy to research the subject yourselves?

I have researched it, I prefer sources with as little personal bias as possible. Have you researched it?

How is trapping a cat, performing invasive surgery on it and then sending it back to it's miserable, disease-ridden life humane?

Who are you suggesting should pay to have this cruelty inflicted on an animal? How much would it cost to put the millions of feral cats in this country through this ordeal, and you want my taxes to pay for it?

Yes, I do pay taxes in this country and therefore am quite entitled to express my opinion on how it is spent, regardless of whether you like it or not.

angry kitten

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I have researched it, I prefer sources with as little personal bias as possible. Have you researched it?

How is trapping a cat, performing invasive surgery on it and then sending it back to it's miserable, disease-ridden life humane?

Who are you suggesting should pay to have this cruelty inflicted on an animal? How much would it cost to put the millions of feral cats in this country through this ordeal, and you want my taxes to pay for it?

Yes, I do pay taxes in this country and therefore am quite entitled to express my opinion on how it is spent, regardless of whether you like it or not.

Gosh you really have even less knowledge than I'd thought. The charities who practice Trap Neuter and Release do it because they care about the welfare of the cats they help. They do not release sick animals. Feral colonies are monitored and sick animals are treated. Kittens are fostered by volunteers until they are used to human contact and are then rehomed with people who have been home-checked. Nobody involved in TNR would allow a cat to suffer. The whole point is to eradicate suffering. Conceed your ignorance and accept defeat.

gufnork

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

angry kitten wrote: »

Why too lazy to research the subject yourselves?

I have researched it, I prefer sources with as little personal bias as possible. Have you researched it?

How is trapping a cat, performing invasive surgery on it and then sending it back to it's miserable, disease-ridden life humane?

Who are you suggesting should pay to have this cruelty inflicted on an animal? How much would it cost to put the millions of feral cats in this country through this ordeal, and you want my taxes to pay for it?

Yes, I do pay taxes in this country and therefore am quite entitled to express my opinion on how it is spent, regardless of whether you like it or not.

Well then the source I linked to should be to your liking. It's the law. How's that for a source?

And neutering cats that live wild is to do them a kindness, and is certainly not a cruelty.

Cherry Blossom

gufnork wrote: »

I have a link regarding this issue here. It's on the Dublin SPCA website. Section 15 The Protection of Animals Act 1911.

There is one incidence of the word vermin in that Act

Provided that in any proceedings under paragraph (b) of this section, it shall be a defence that the poison was placed by the accused for the purpose of destroying rats, mice or other small vermin, and that he took all reasonable precautions to prevent access thereto of dogs, cats, fowls or other domestic animals.

There you have it, the only piece of legislation you can produce refers to cats as domestic animals, that's not what I asked for :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

angry kitten wrote: »

Feral colonies are monitored and sick animals are treated.

Really? all of the estimated one million feral cats in Dublin city alone are monitored for their health

angry kitten wrote: »

Kittens are fostered by volunteers until they are used to human contact and are then rehomed with people who have been home-checked. Nobody involved in TNR would allow a cat to suffer. The whole point is to eradicate suffering. Conceed your ignorance and accept defeat.

Rehomed cat's obviously haven't been released, how many cats that are actually part of TNR are actually released? a handful? What about those that are never trapped in the first place, do they not suffer? do they not re-spread the diseases that have been medically treated?

How is the life of one (un-indigenous) cat greater than the lives and suffering of the total sum our native protected species that that cat will play with before killing?

gufnork

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

There is one incidence of the word vermin in that Act


There you have it, the only piece of legislation you can produce refers to cats as domestic animals, that's not what I asked for :rolleyes:

That's entirely the point i'm trying to make, the legislation only protects domestic animals and doesn't cover feral cats.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Salt001

Done

angry kitten

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Really? all of the estimated one million feral cats in Dublin city alone are monitored for their health


Rehomed cat's obviously haven't been released, how many cats that are actually part of TNR are actually released? a handful? What about those that are never trapped in the first place, do they not suffer? do they not re-spread the diseases that have been medically treated?

How is the life of one (un-indigenous) cat greater than the lives and suffering of the total sum our native protected species that that cat will play with before killing?

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. The figures you've quoted are ludicrous and I would suggest that you try to return from fantasy land and actually acquire some knowledge on this matter. As opposed to attempting to engage me in some pathetic p****ng contest so you can attempt to save face

planetX

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Really? all of the estimated one million feral cats in Dublin city alone are monitored for their health


Rehomed cat's obviously haven't been released, how many cats that are actually part of TNR are actually released? a handful? What about those that are never trapped in the first place, do they not suffer? do they not re-spread the diseases that have been medically treated?

How is the life of one (un-indigenous) cat greater than the lives and suffering of the total sum our native protected species that that cat will play with before killing?

If you've ever seen a hungry cat kill, you'll know that there isn't much play involved. The impact on protected species is negligible compared to poisoning, loss of habitat, road kill etc. all thanks to us.
The cats involved in TNR cannot be rehomed, they are too wild, that's why there is an R there... They can be fed and looked after for the years they have left, anyone with a shred of humanity would support that.

Cherry Blossom

gufnork wrote: »

That's entirely the point i'm trying to make, the legislation only protects domestic animals and doesn't cover feral cats.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The whole purpose of this debacle is that someone thinks they are classed as vermin in Irish legislation (where???), what do people want them classed as - the options are - (a) domestic animals - they'll be rounded up in the pound system and pts in their millions. (b) non-indigenous species that is threatening our native wildlife - there will be no rounding up, just a mass cull.

I think you are entirely missing the point that I and others have made in this thread, that is exactly where this petition is heading. :rolleyes:

This is an unbelievable waste of my life tbh.

doctor evil

planetX wrote: »

If you've ever seen a hungry cat kill, you'll know that there isn't much play involved. The impact on protected species is negligible compared to poisoning, loss of habitat, road kill etc. all thanks to us.
The cats involved in TNR cannot be rehomed, they are too wild, that's why there is an R there... They can be fed and looked after for the years they have left, anyone with a shred of humanity would support that.

Are you not contradicting yourself there? Surely they will play much more with their prey if they are being fed...

Endangered native species are of much more value than feral or domestic cats that are allowed to stray.

angry kitten

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

The whole purpose of this debacle is that someone thinks they are classed as vermin in Irish legislation (where???), what do people want them classed as - the options are - (a) domestic animals - they'll be rounded up in the pound system and pts in their millions. (b) non-indigenous species that is threatening our native wildlife - there will be no rounding up, just a mass cull.

I think you are entirely missing the point that I and others have made in this thread, that is exactly where this petition is heading. :rolleyes:

This is an unbelievable waste of my life tbh.

The petition is being submitted to the government by animal charities and volunteers who work directly with feral cats on a daily basis. These people know the reality of the situation and are attempting to do something positive to help the cats. They are the ones who know the reality facing the cats they help. They are the ones who give their time and money selflessly out of kindness and consideration. If you aren't sure whether to support the petition or not you could always speak to somebody involved at a practical level. Cats are an important part of the ecological balance of our planet. Without them as natural predators our natural wildlife, as you put it, would suffer even more. I am an animal lover. I have cats. I would never see any animal suffer. I would never stand back and watch anyone else harm an animal. By all means have an opinion. But please don't condemn others for signing a petition to help needy cats. Particularly when you have no real understanding of feral cats.

gufnork

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

gufnork wrote: »

That's entirely the point i'm trying to make, the legislation only protects domestic animals and doesn't cover feral cats.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The whole purpose of this debacle is that someone thinks they are classed as vermin in Irish legislation (where???), what do people want them classed as - the options are - (a) domestic animals - they'll be rounded up in the pound system and pts in their millions. (b) non-indigenous species that is threatening our native wildlife - there will be no rounding up, just a mass cull.

I think you are entirely missing the point that I and others have made in this thread, that is exactly where this petition is heading. :rolleyes:

This is an unbelievable waste of my life tbh.

It's not me that's missing the point. The whole point of the petition is to ultimately help feral cats. Nothing else matters as far as I can see. And trapping, neutering and attempting to re-home feral cats can only be a good thing, surely. The fact that feral cats are not protected by law is something that needs changing, and this petition is attempting to do just that.

I don't see where the problem is. Why are you so angry? We're just trying to help cats that would otherwise be left to their own devices otherwise and undoubtedly suffer and suffer unnecessarily.

aN.Droid

gufnork wrote: »

It's not me that's missing the point. The whole point of the petition is to ultimately help feral cats. Nothing else matters as far as I can see. And trapping, neutering and attempting to re-home feral cats can only be a good thing, surely. The fact that feral cats are not protected by law is something that needs changing, and this petition is attempting to do just that.

I don't see where the problem is. Why are you so angry? We're just trying to help cats that would otherwise be left to their own devices otherwise and undoubtedly suffer and suffer unnecessarily.

I think adrenalinejunkie is backing up a valid point. Either they are let as they are or are classified. If they are classified they will either be pets or wildlife that cause harm to protected species, in either case there will be a mass cull of the wild population as a) pets are domesticated and b) wild pets are either pts or re homed, which feral cats cannot be so they will be pts.

Cull orders have been called on species in the past that have wildly overgrown and caused harm to the protected indigenous species and at the risk at angering all the cat lovers here (I am a animal lover in general, but a logical one) the same should apply to cats.

downwithpeace

Signed.

Possibly said already and i missed it but the cat license was mentioned and I think it's a great idea but it could be done in a way that when a vet neuters the cat the license becomes cheaper or free.

aN.Droid

downwithpeace wrote: »

Signed.

Possibly said already and i missed it but the cat license was mentioned and I think it's a great idea but it could be done in a way that when a vet neuters the cat the license becomes cheaper or free.

Good idea but the same would have to be done for dogs. To be fair.