petition - cats reclassified from vermin

downwithpeace

Limericks wrote: »

Good idea but the same would have to be done for dogs. To be fair.

Yeah it would be a little unfair but it would be an incentive to license the cat, second downside would be the government would probably put the cost back up after X amount of people licensed their cats.

Cherry Blossom

angry kitten wrote: »

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. The figures you've quoted are ludicrous and I would suggest that you try to return from fantasy land and actually acquire some knowledge on this matter. As opposed to attempting to engage me in some pathetic p****ng contest so you can attempt to save face

I would suggest that I am not the one who is in fantasy land and lacking in knowledge on the matter.

One million cats courtesy of one, and quoted by most of the cat charities you have done your research on.

No-one is going to hand out money on a mass scale for TNR for a project of unknown proportions anyway you look at it, it would only solve the problem if every single cat was funded, and they were all somehow caught. If there is some chance of this kicking someone into gear to clean up the mess I'll sign it all the same, if I come to the conclusion that it will.

Two million cats nationwide multiplied by €60 each (very low cost veterinary treatment there!) equals 120 million euro that the country doesn't have.

gufnork

Limericks wrote: »

I think adrenalinejunkie is backing up a valid point. Either they are let as they are or are classified. If they are classified they will either be pets or wildlife that cause harm to protected species, in either case there will be a mass cull of the wild population as a) pets are domesticated and b) wild pets are either pts or re homed, which feral cats cannot be so they will be pts.

Cull orders have been called on species in the past that have wildly overgrown and caused harm to the protected indigenous species and at the risk at angering all the cat lovers here (I am a animal lover in general, but a logical one) the same should apply to cats.

Clearly not, or you wouldn't even have considered writing such a thing. If you are, truly an animal lover then sign the petition so that the animals you say you love(cats in this instance) have some protection under Irish law.

gbee

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Done, I hope that it will make a difference, 2012 and cats are still classed as vermin in this country, how backwards can you get!

I must be a caveman then. Cats are vermin. I never realised the Government officially held this position.

gufnork

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I would suggest that I am not the one who is in fantasy land and lacking in knowledge on the matter.

One million cats courtesy of one, and quoted by most of the cat charities you have done your research on.

No-one is going to hand out money on a mass scale for TNR for a project of unknown proportions anyway you look at it, it would only solve the problem if every single cat was funded, and they were all somehow caught. If there is some chance of this kicking someone into gear to clean up the mess I'll sign it all the same, if I come to the conclusion that it will.

Two million cats nationwide multiplied by €60 each (very low cost veterinary treatment there!) equals 120 million euro that the country doesn't have.

One Million is the figure quoted by an online general petition site. Feral Cats Ireland estimates the figure to be in the hundreds of thousands. Incidentally Trap Neuter and Release helps a huge number of cats not the few you suggest.

downwithpeace

gbee wrote: »

I must be a caveman then. Cats are vermin. I never realised the Government officially held this position.

I would like to disagree but sadly can't and I'm a cat lover, the problem is some people get cats for pest control without any regard for how fast cats breed, they can have 8 kittens per litter and 3-4 litters per year, is it any wonder they're labeled vermin. Cats are amazing animals but if you own one it should be neutered (Unless your a breeder), best option for the cats and the cat lovers.

gufnork

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I would suggest that I am not the one who is in fantasy land and lacking in knowledge on the matter.

One million cats courtesy of one, and quoted by most of the cat charities you have done your research on.

No-one is going to hand out money on a mass scale for TNR for a project of unknown proportions anyway you look at it, it would only solve the problem if every single cat was funded, and they were all somehow caught. If there is some chance of this kicking someone into gear to clean up the mess I'll sign it all the same, if I come to the conclusion that it will.

Two million cats nationwide multiplied by €60 each (very low cost veterinary treatment there!) equals 120 million euro that the country doesn't have.

Feral Cats Ireland estimates the number of cats at being in the hundreds of thousands. Presumably you took your figures from that online general petition site. Charities using Trap Neuter and Release help many many feral cats. You're demeaning that work by suggesting that the work they do helps very few cats. As a moderator you really should set a better example.

Cherry Blossom

The link I posted is a statement from an SPCA printed in a national newspaper, talk about banging your head off a brick wall, I'm done here :rolleyes:

gufnork

downwithpeace wrote: »

I would like to disagree but sadly can't and I'm a cat lover, the problem is some people get cats for pest control without any regard for how fast cats breed, they can have 8 kittens per litter and 3-4 litters per year, is it any wonder they're labeled vermin. Cats are amazing animals but if you own one it should be neutered (Unless your a breeder), best option for the cats and the cat lovers.

I would totally agree that it is so important for cats to be neutered. Again there is a double standard, Dogs Trust issue some vouchers to have dogs neutered but there is no scheme for cats. Nevertheless people have a responsibility to neuter their cats.

aN.Droid

gufnork wrote: »

Clearly not, or you wouldn't even have considered writing such a thing. If you are, truly an animal lover then sign the petition so that the animals you say you love(cats in this instance) have some protection under Irish law.

And what about the protected species they harm? You are to leaned against one side and cannot see the logical reasons behind what I said. There is no point in arguing with you as from your replies to myself and others I can see you are too stubborn.

My stance is a logical one, trap all feral cats an destroy them. Just as it is done with dogs, it's a working system. I am not saying it is perfect, but it is better then to have them destroy not only themselves with disease but the protected indigenous species which they prey on every day.

doctor evil

angry kitten wrote: »

Cats are an important part of the ecological balance of our planet. Without them as natural predators our natural wildlife, as you put it, would suffer even more.

When they are native to a habitat. In Ireland they are not native and there are many native endangered flora and fauna in greater need of help.

gufnork

Limericks wrote: »

And what about the protected species they harm? You are to leaned against one side and cannot see the logical reasons behind what I said. There is no point in arguing with you as from your replies to myself and others I can see you are too stubborn.

My stance is a logical one, trap all feral cats an destroy them. Just as it is done with dogs, it's a working system. I am not saying it is perfect, but it is better then to have them destroy not only themselves with disease but the protected indigenous species which they prey on every day.

I would be biased towards helping any animal. This petition is asking for support in helping feral cats. That's it! Nothing more, nothing less. So yes, in this particular instance i am encouraging people to help them. I really don't see any reason to stand against it.

gufnork

doctor evil wrote: »

When they are native to a habitat. In Ireland they are not native and there are many native endangered flora and fauna in greater need of help.

There's nothing stopping you helping native species. This petition isn't that. It never claimed to be. Don't make this about something it's not.

aN.Droid

gufnork wrote: »

I would be biased towards helping any animal. This petition is asking for support in helping feral cats. That's it! Nothing more, nothing less. So yes, in this particular instance i am encouraging people to help them. I really don't see any reason to stand against it.

I think the problem is you want people to blindly sign the petition without hearing all of the arguments against it.

tin79

doctor evil wrote: »

When they are native to a habitat. In Ireland they are not native and there are many native endangered flora and fauna in greater need of help.

While I think you have made some great points Angry kitten I must say I very much agree with the above. Cats are useful for humans in controlling damaging vermin such as rodents but it any domestic cats and feral domestic cats are if anything ecologically damaging in most natural habitats.

In urban and suburban Ireland the damage is limited, but elsewhere they are a genuine threat to biodiversity. So I would say beneficial to humans in local environment and pest management yes, ecologically important no.

But I agree generally with some of your other points. Feral cats are here to stay and a mass cull just is not going to happen realistically, TNR at least is trying to tackle the problem but is it really effective? I am not sure. I dont really see a solution to the problem of Feral cats that is actually workable and will get results.

Having said that I am not completely against cats roaming myself and I do think its possible that you can make a decision on an individual basis so all cat owners who allow cats out dont need to be tarred with the same brush.

I have a cat and she is let out into the garden where she stays 90% of the time. On ocassion she will go into the empty field/scrub at the back of the house but not often so I dont see a problem letting her out there sometimes. She doesnt go far and is nutured and is always back with 30 mins or so. If I call she appears within seconds. I have never seen her go near the road at the front, never.

She goes to the toilet in the litter tray inside the house or the one in the shed. She may go in the field too but its all grass and I think she prefers the litter as I have to empty one or the other most days. There are flower beds in my garden and she doesnt seem to use them at all.

She sometimes sits on the fence but I have not seen her go into any other gardens though she may of course. I have talked to one neighbour and they had not seen her in theirs (two doors up) and had no issue. If she was causing a nuisance, going out the front where dogs might be, winding up dogs in other gardens, or risking herself on the road then I would have to reconsider but from my assessment of her she is not. I have had her 2 years. She seems to avoid the other local cats. I have not seen her kill and her half hearted attempts to hunt birds are laughable. Never had a dead mouse, bird or anything else brough back. Is there a problem there?

Really for now I cant see one.

Now on the other hand my parents used to have a neutered male cat who was initially let out but he would pick fights with other cats, run across the road, wander and dissapear for hours and bring back dead birds and mice/shews etc all the time. In the end he was coming back with scrapes all the time and was constantly hunting and irritating the local dogs by sitting on the wall above them out of reach.

Clearly there was a problem here so he had to be kept in which he hated initially but eventually got used to. As it turned out he didnt live long anyway and plans to covert the garden at some point where not needed.

Was there a problem with him going out, definitely so he had to be kept in.

What I guess I am saying is that its maybe not so black and white here. The debate is hugely polarized as these tend to be in this forum and neither side is really listening. The problem is that you have some people who love cats in all cases and you have others who clearly have a real issue with cats coming into their garden.

IMO

Is it ok for all cats to be allowed roam all the time in a suburban or urban environment? I would say no.

It it always wrong for any cat to be allowed out sometimes if their behaviour suits? I would say not to that two.

I think decisions can be based on particular circumstance and doing this does not make you iresponsible necessarily.

Christ I meant to only type a line or two and I am actually not sure about the petition to be honest (just typing my thoughts I guess).

are you serious

garkane wrote: »

Surely this would then mean cat owners should have to pay a licence fee... then dragging up an old thread also....... :rolleyes:

Lads and lassies see what one statement has started... 8 pages of mahyem, I'm tired again now anights easing a nights worth of arguements.

Having read them all I think some of you forgot what my message was which in turn started a lot of the conflicting ideas...

My opinion is if they are licenced then we should treat them like dogs are treated, which would mean we can hopefully say goodbye to the feral cat!

planetX

doctor evil wrote: »

When they are native to a habitat. In Ireland they are not native and there are many native endangered flora and fauna in greater need of help.

right, and look how the native predators are treated in this country.

angry kitten

Predation Studies Reviewed

© 2003 Christine L. O'Keefe, Ph.D. for www.StrayPetAdvocacy.org
One topic that has become intimately intertwined with the question of how to manage feral cat populations is that of feline predation and the effects on wildlife populations. It is a simple fact, cats are obligate carnivores. For cats, predation is a natural part of life; they must eat meat in order to survive. As Ellen Perry Berkeley so eloquently put it, "It is we who bring emotion to this activity of the cat." (Berkeley, 2001)
This topic has become a battleground of competing studies and experts. A study supporting any stance can be found, and are often cited and quoted without seriously analyzing the actual study. However, some conclusions can be reached regarding feline predation and its effect on wildlife:

• * There is no strong support for the viewpoint that cats are a serious threat to wildlife, except perhaps for fragile populations in isolated or fragmented ecosystems;
• * The role of other predators, including foxes, feral dogs, and some bird species has not been adequately addressed;
• * The role of feral cats in a healthy ecosystem has not been studied;
• * Finally, the effect of humans on sensitive ecosystems and disappearing species is often ignored.

Studies into cat predation have been done for almost a century. These studies fall into three main classes (Slater, 2002):

• 1. Island ecosystems
• 2. Owned cats with access to the outdoors
• 3. Feral cats.

THE METHODOLOGY

Many techniques have been used in these studies. Owner-reported rates of predation are obtained through randomized phone calls or mailed surveys which rely on the memory of the owner (Robertson, 1998; Reark, 1994), or by long-term follow-up studies, in which the owners record the predation behavior of their cats as it happens for a defined period of time (Churcher and Lawton, 1987). Observations of predation by scientists include direct observation, analyzing stomach or fecal/scat contents of cats (Bell and Sim, 2000), radio collaring and observation, or analysis of dead or injured prey species (Bell and Sim, 2000). As in any scientific study, each of these techniques has potential drawbacks that may skew the findings.
Many potential problems exist within one time owner-reported rates of predation. As a rule, for any survey, a low rate of response renders the study meaningless. A study that is performed in a small area (say one city instead of many cities across a nation) will not be applicable to a larger region. Studies of urban cats are most likely not applicable to cats that live in a suburban or rural environment. In studies that are not performed face-to-face, there is no way to verify that the respondent even has a cat. Owner bias also plays a large role (Hartwell, 1997). For those who do own cats, the way they think of their cat could distort their response. As an example, someone who keeps a cat as a "mouser" may be more willing to report or over-report predation than someone who thinks of their cat as a well-tended (and well-fed) housecat. The general view of the culture that they live in regarding cats may also influence an owner's response. Finally, these sorts of reports come from memory alone, which may also distort owner response.
Long-term follow up studies are much more robust in many ways. They do not rely on an owner's memory of predation by their cat. Owners instead record predation events as they happen. However, there are still drawbacks to long-term follow up studies. There is no way to prove that the prey brought home was actually killed by the cat. Cats, as opportunistic feeders, will feed on carrion (already-dead animals) as well as those they killed themselves, so predation rates may be over-reported. Often, a cat will consume its' prey at the site of the kill, so predation rates may be under-reported. Finally, all types of owner-reported predation studies rely greatly on the cats being studied, including their age, their natural territory and what food sources they have access to.
Studies of cat predation undertaken by research scientists often use direct observation of feline kills; these studies have the same drawbacks as explained above of owner-reported long term studies. Alternatively, feline predation is determined by killing cats and studying their stomach contents. For many, studies of this type are ethically and morally repugnant (Garcia, Diez and Alvarez, 2001). Stomach analysis can also be performed on cats that die of natural causes; alternatively feline scat can be studied. One of the drawbacks of these types of studies are that they are restricted to a limited number of meals. Also, dead or injured prey animals found and/or taken to refuges can be studied to determine if their injuries are similar to that of a "typical" cat kill. However, this presupposes that a "typical" cat kill is well defined and is distinctive enough to warrant that conclusion.
THE FINDINGS

The findings of cat predation studies are often extrapolated to determine the number of prey killed by the cats of a state or a nation. For example, the American Bird Conservancy reported that a study in England found that the British cat population was killing at least 300 million prey animals a year (American Bird Conservancy). However, the original study does not support these claims. In the study, the catches and kills of 986 cats across Great Britain (except Ireland and the Channel Islands) were compiled over a 5 month period, and it was determined that the mean number of prey caught and killed was 11.3 during the study period (Woods, McDonald, and Harris). This study, like many of its kind, has several potential problems. First, study participants were recruited in part from members of the Mammal Society. Since this is a conservation organization, a portion of the respondents most likely were concerned with conservation and extinction, a fact the authors of the study readily admit. The study recorded the number of prey brought home by the cats assuming that these equaled kills by the cats. However, cats are opportunistic feeders and a portion of the prey brought home may have been already dead, which was not taken into account in the final analysis. Of 696 cats, 91% brought home at least one prey animal. This is contradictory to many other studies, which found that 35-56% of cats hunt (Fougere, 2000; Perry 1999; Reark, 1994). Once again, the authors acknowledge this point. Additionally, feline predation is not constant during the course of the year. Since the study was limited to only 5 months, the findings may have been skewed by studying the cats during their most active hunting period during the year. But most striking, and most important for the discussion of extrapolation, is a comment the authors themselves made: "Our estimates of the total numbers of animals brought home by cats throughout Britain should be treated with requisite caution and these figures do not equate to an assessment of the impact of cats on wildlife populations." Sadly, comments like these made by the researchers themselves are often ignored by groups who use and abuse these studies to prove cats are the major cause of prey species decline.
OTHER FACTORS

Besides the inherent problems of the studies as discussed above, there are numerous other factors other than feral and domestic cat predation which affect wildlife populations. These are not often addressed in studies of cat predation, although they can greatly influence any conclusions made by the studies. The presence (or absence) and effect of other predator species must also be taken into consideration. Feral dogs can and do have a large impact on wildlife. Other small predators, such as foxes, minks and skunks are often more efficient predators than cats. Perhaps most surprisingly, birds can and do kill other birds. Even in isolated ecosystems where domestic cats are not a factor and cats must hunt to survive, feral cats are not the sole predators but exist in a complex relationship with the prey species and other predators. The absence of larger mammalian carnivores can lead to what is known as "mesopredator release", in which smaller carnivores are free to fill the ecological niche left by the larger predator and prey on smaller vertebrates. "Mesopredator release" has been suggested as the cause of decline and extinction of some prey species, and has been studied in coastal California (Crooks and Soule 1999).
Feral cats, as all animals, live in a complex ecological web. As the above mesopredator study demonstrated, if one part of the system is removed, normal predator/prey interactions are disrupted. However, we know little if any about the normal role feral cats play in the environment. It is important to note that cats and their prey species have coexisted for hundreds if not thousands of years. If feline predation has such a negative impact, as the British study suggests, then birds and other small vertebrates would have become extinct long ago (CJ Meade, 1982).
We must also take into consideration the effect humans have on the environment, as well as their direct impact on feline prey species. Feline predation has been shown to be detrimental in isolated environments as well as fragmented ecosystems. This fragmentation is often due to human action, such as urban sprawl and road construction. Indiscriminate poisoning by humans to kill a specific pest species frequently kills a large percentage of other species.
CONCLUSIONS

So, what has been learned from all the conflicting studies of cat predation? What do we know now about cat predation in general? First, multiple studies have found that 36-56% of owned cats hunt (Fougere, 2000; Perry 1999; Reark, 1994). The amount of prey caught varies widely between individual cats. In one study 70% of cats caught less than 10 prey animals, while 6% caught over 50 prey animals (Barrat, D.G., 1998, 1997). What do cats eat? Primarily, cats are opportunistic feeders, and will utilize whatever food source is most prevalent, including supplemental feeding by humans, garbage and carrion (Berkley, 2001; Winograd, 2003). Of the cats that rely on hunting, the majority of their diet consists of mammals (Berkely, 2001; Fitzgerald, 1988). The feline hunting style of wait and pounce is unsuitable for flying birds. Frequently, the flying birds consumed are injured or already dead (Berkely, 2001).
It is an undeniable fact that cats are carnivores; their physiology demands this. However, the debate on cat predation focuses on the impact on the other species in their ecosystem. While it is clear that cats can and do have a large impact in exceptional situations (isolated ecosystems being the primary example), it is much more apparent that in our normal, everyday environments the actions of humans have a much greater effect on vulnerable and threatened species. Urban sprawl, fragmentation of forested ecosystems, the increase in motor vehicles and the related increase in roads, and the use of pesticides, fertilizers and poisons do much more damage to bird and small vertebrate species than do domestic and/or feral cats. However, feral cat predation, and its' supposed effect on vulnerable species, is frequently used as an argument against trap/neuter/return (TNR) programs. As cats are opportunistic feeders, providing them with a readily available food source as a part of a TNR program will reduce any effect they have on their traditional prey species. All cats, and feral cats in particular, have become convenient scapegoats for the loss of many species, especially songbirds. However, we can no longer ignore the role that we humans have played in this process. Before we can sentence cats to death for being carnivores, we need to take a hard look at ourselves and what we have done to our ecosystem.
BIBLIOGRAPHY Berkely, Ellen Perry. 2001. Maverick Cats: Encounters with Feral Cats. Revised and Updated. Shelburne, Vermont.: The New England Press.
Slater, M.R., 2002. Community Approaches to Feral Cats: Problems, Alternatives and Recommendations. Washington, D.C.; Humane Society Press.
Robertson, I.D. 1998. Survey of predation by domestic cats. Aust Vet J. 76: 551-554.
Reark Research Pty. Ltd. 1994. The Metropolitan Domestic Cat: A survey of the population characteristics and hunting behavior of the domestic cat in Australia. Prepared for the Petcare Information & Advisory Service (www.petnet.com.au/reark/reark.html).
Churcher, P.B. and Lawton, J.H. (1987) Predation by domestic cats in an English village. J Zool. 212:439-455.
Bell, E.A. and Sim, J.L. 2000 Survey and monitoring of black petrals on Great Barrier Island, 1999/2000. Department of Conservation, Wellington, New Zealand.
Hartwell, Sarah. 1997. The Great Australian Cat Dilemma. (members.iinet.net.au/~rabbit/catdeb.htm).
Garcia, M.A., Diez, C.E. and Alvarez, A.O. 2001. The Impact of Feral Cats on MonaIsland Wildlife and Recommendations for their Control. Caribbean Journal of Science. 37: 107-108.
American Bird Conservancy. "Cat Predation on Birds and Other Wildlife: Recent Studies" (www.abcbirds.org/cats/catpre.pdf)
Woods, M., McDonald, R.A. and Harris, S. Predation of wildlife by domestic cats in Great Britain. Written for the Mammal Society (www.abdn.ac.uk/mammal/cat_predation.htm).
Fougere, B. 2000. Cats and wildlife in the urban environment-a review. Urban Animal Management Proceedings (www.ava.com.au/content/confer/uam/proc00/fougere.htm).
Perry, G. 1999. Cats-perceptions and misconceptions : two recent studies about cats and how people see them. Urban Animal Management Proceedings.
Crooks, K.R. and Soule, M.E. 1999. Mesopredator release and avifaunal extinctions in a fragmented system. Nature 400:563-566.
Mead, C.J. 1982. Ringed birds killed by cats. Mammal Reviews. 12:183-186.
Barrat, D.G. 1998. Predation by house cats, Felis catus (L.) in Canberra, Australia II Factors affecting the amount of prey caught and estimates of the impact on wildlife. Wildlife Research. 25:475-487.
Barrat, D.G. 1997. Predation by house cats, Felis catus (L.) in Canberra, Australia. Prey Composition and preference. Wildlife Research. 24: 263-277.
Winograd, N.J. 2003. Feral Cats on the Firing Line. (http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/firingline.pdf)
Fitzgerald, B.M. 1988. Diet of domestic cats and their impact on prey population. In The domestic cat: Thebiology of its behavior. eds. D.C. Turner and P. Bateson. Cambridge:CambridgeUniversity Press.

Hellrazer

Angry Kitten--Do you have a link to the text in that last post.Im concerned that it may be copyright material and you may not be allowed to reproduce it here.

I also feel that copying and pasting someone elses work to argue your case takes away from the discussion at hand--if everyone was to argue their case with a cut and paste then the forum would be a different place.

I may have to remove that text if I find its copyrighted.

angry kitten

Hellrazer wrote: »

Angry Kitten--Do you have a link to the text in that last post.Im concerned that it may be copyright material and you may not be allowed to reproduce it here.

I also feel that copying and pasting someone elses work to argue your case takes away from the discussion at hand--if everyone was to argue their case with a cut and paste then the forum would be a different place.

I may have to remove that text if I find its copyrighted.

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/predation_studies_reviewed.html

angry kitten

angry kitten wrote: »

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/predation_studies_reviewed.html

The information pasted is intended to provide people with information. Unfortunately I don't have PHD in that area myself.

Hellrazer

Fair enough I`ll leave it for the minute.

ziggy23

Done. I'm actually taking 2 rescued ferals tomorrow. They will be living in my shed for a few weeks til they get used to their new surroundings then they will be able to wander around but there'll always be a bed and food here for them

angry kitten

ziggy23 wrote: »

Done. I'm actually taking 2 rescued ferals tomorrow. They will be living in my shed for a few weeks til they get used to their new surroundings then they will be able to wander around but there'll always be a bed and food here for them

Well done on rescuing them.

Discodog

gufnork wrote: »

I suggest you take a look at Ennis Dog Pounds website or Facebook page..

That would be the Pound that took in 202 Greyhounds in 2010 & killed all of them. It would also be the Pound with an overall kill rate of 55%, in other words over half the dogs entering that Pound died there.

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

There is one incidence of the word vermin in that Act There you have it, the only piece of legislation you can produce refers to cats as domestic animals, that's not what I asked for

It only has to be mentioned once to make it law. There was no concept of Feral Cats in 1911. What we might now term as Ferals were farm cats kept to reduce vermin.

As far as I can see, all cats are currently classed as domestic animals & in any event it would be impossible to be sure whether a cat is truly Feral or a former/current pet.

gufnork wrote: »

That's entirely the point i'm trying to make, the legislation only protects domestic animals and doesn't cover feral cats.

I think that is does. However the AWB should clarify this.

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

The whole purpose of this debacle is that someone thinks they are classed as vermin in Irish legislation (where???), what do people want them classed as - the options are - (a) domestic animals - they'll be rounded up in the pound system and pts in their millions. (b) non-indigenous species that is threatening our native wildlife - there will be no rounding up, just a mass cull.

You know that this will never happen. A mass cull would be totally impractical, impossible, too expensive, too dangerous, too litigious & would cause irreparable damage to Ireland inc - the tourist figure alone would fall through the floor.

downwithpeace wrote: »

Signed.

Possibly said already and i missed it but the cat license was mentioned and I think it's a great idea but it could be done in a way that when a vet neuters the cat the license becomes cheaper or free.

Given the low takeup & enforcement of dog licenses, what chance would there be of introducing & enforcing a cat license.

I suggest that people consider the real situation rather all the myriad of possible permutations that could or could not occur. Even if a million people sign the petition it may not make any difference but it won't do any harm.

Irish governments have a history of ignoring expert advice in all fields let alone in Animal Welfare. The experiences with the Control of Dogs Act, the Dog Breeding Act & Greyhound Welfare Act show that expert opinion counts for nothing when measure against influential pressure groups.

On balance the petition is a reasonable idea & there are not going to be any adverse results if it were implemented but it won't change anything. Feral cats are here to stay for the foreseeable future. The laudable TNS schemes will remain tiny because they will have to rely on public donation.

kildare.17hmr

@ discodog, What makes you think a cull would be impossible or even expensive???

Slap a small bounty on them and jobs done. It wont be a complete cull but it will seriously reduce numbers. There is one in place for mink at the moment €3 per tail

Hellrazer

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Slap a small bounty on them and jobs done. It wont be a complete cull but it will seriously reduce numbers. There is one in place for mink at the moment €3 per tail

But how do the people who are availing of the €3 per cats tail or whatever know that its not a pet they are killing.


This is my issue with the idea of a cull.

What if my cat escaped(as its done before) and got shot/trapped whatever even though it has a name tag etc on it???

boomerang

Met this cat today. Feral or tame?

Feral

are you serious

I would have said feral just because its coat is horrible and dirty

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

What if my cat escaped(as its done before) and got shot/trapped whatever even though it has a name tag etc on it???

That's one of the many reasons why a nationwide cull will never happen. The closest that we may get is a cull in selective areas but even that is extremely unlikely.

Obviously you would sue the person or authority that shot your cat for your loss & the huge distress caused to you & your family.

You can already imagine the headlines as a lovely old lady's pet cat is shot because it happened to wander into the wrong place.

You can't rely on collar tags especially as cat collars have to be elastic so the only option would be microchipping. You would have to trap, check for a chip & then euthanase - it would take years & cost a fortune. And before you could start all the pet cats would have to be chipped.

Catching a stray dog is one thing - have you ever tried to catch a cat ?