petition - cats reclassified from vermin

kildare.17hmr

I Understand and agree with your concern but id have to go back to my original post about cats being kept on owners property. There would need to be notice givin and plenty of information available well in advance of a cull starting so cat owners can take measures to keep their cats in. Just one idea but im sure others would have better ideas but alot of thought would need to go into it first

From experience though it is not hard to tell the difference between feral and domestic cats.

Discodog

garkane wrote: »

I would have said feral just because its coat is horrible and dirty

But could you be sure enough to risk killing it ?

Traonach

Discodog wrote: »

That's one of the many reasons why a nationwide cull will never happen. The closest that we may get is a cull in selective areas but even that is extremely unlikely.

There was a cull of feral cats on Tory Island. They remove all of them.

are you serious

I will say this, if I happened to be out shooting and any cat was close enough to a house I would leave it. For me as I said I would have automatically said this was a feral cat but I wouldnt shoot it if it was within a certain distance of a house.

kildare.17hmr

garkane wrote: »

I will say this, if I happened to be out shooting and any cat was close enough to a house I would leave it. For me as I said I would have automatically said this was a feral cat but I wouldnt shoot it if it was within a certain distance of a house.

+1

Discodog

Traonach wrote: »

There was a cull of feral cats on Tory Island. They remove all of them.

That's a totally different proposition to a nationwide cull. This is what they did. Now imagine doing this all over Ireland:

"For the protection of people and other animals that frequent the island, the feral cats were caught and euthanised humanely," said Sandy Alcorn, a corncrake field worker with Birdwatch Ireland.
"We took photographs of all the pet cats and provided them with collars before we started to catch the feral cats in humane traps and euthanise them," she said.
A vet has since made two trips to the island to neuter the domestic cat population.
"As things now stand, the domestic cat population has been neutered and hopefully there won't be too many kittens next year," Ms Alcord added.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/cat-cull-on-donegal-island-14578232.html#ixzz1mlg4BhDP

planetX

garkane wrote: »

I will say this, if I happened to be out shooting and any cat was close enough to a house I would leave it. For me as I said I would have automatically said this was a feral cat but I wouldnt shoot it if it was within a certain distance of a house.

how kind of you.

Zapperzy

Traonach wrote: »

There was a cull of feral cats on Tory Island. They remove all of them.

The place is also crawling with rabbits. Every bank is covered with rabbit holes and there's carpets of rabbit poo. Can't open the link as I'm on the mobile but what was the reason for culling the feral cats?

Traonach

Zapperzy wrote: »

The place is also crawling with rabbits. Every bank is covered with rabbit holes and there's carpets of rabbit poo. Can't open the link as I'm on the mobile but what was the reason for culling the feral cats?

They kill Corncrakes. The rabbits make the problem worse by keeping cover low. Corncrakes required tall uncut meadow grass for nesting. If the grass is too short they are highly vulnerable to predators ie cats, crows. Corncrakes are on the verge of extinction in Ireland

boomerang

Surprised you'd think her coat is horrible and dirty, garkane. She looks like your average moggie to me. :P She is in out of the coal shed at that house but is spotless compared to some of the others! I have lots of pretty pictures of clean, healthy ferals who are relaxed in the presence of people. I defy anyone to tell the difference.

The vast majority of feral cats live in urban or suburban areas (i.e. housing estates). There are surprisingly few in rural areas; the lack of opportunity for scavenging and absence of people providing food keeps the numbers much lower than in built-up areas. So if a cull were to take place, it'd be in the lanes of city streets and the back gardens of suburban housing estates, right in amongst the highest density areas for pet cats.

It would also be a painfully slow process, as feral cats are usually only up and about in the early morning, and after dark. They go to ground for the day.

To my mind, pet cats and feral cats both create considerable nuisance. Research suggests that the numbers of either population are pretty equally matched. Nearly all pet cats have outdoor access and poo in the neighbourhood just as much as their feral cousins. A sizeable share of pet cats go un-neutered and therefore create as much racket as the ferals. Not sure how many pet cats get a regular worm dose, either. I wouldn't put the nuisance factor of either population on an equal footing, but I would say that pet cats aren't far behind the ferals!

We talk about ferals carrying disease, when only a few of these are transmissible to humans and of these, most are not dangerous and rarely contracted. Pet cats carry the same diseases, and live in closer proximity to people, therefore making transmission far more likely. We have stats (albeit American and English) on the parasitic load of feral cats. It would be really interesting to see how the pet cat population compares. I have some stats on the level of roundworm infection in Irish kids, must look it up. That research only pertains to the roundworm of dogs though.

These are the kind of hard facts we need to work with.

doctor evil

If people don't want their cats caught in a trap than they should keep them in. I seriously doubt tourism would fall through the floor if the number of ferals were reduced. Tourists do not come for the cats!

Why should stray/feral cats be see as different from other stray/feral animals like dogs.

kildare.17hmr

Id wonder if people would feel the same way about other invasive spieces like mink or gray squirell? Should they be given protected status too?

planetX

boomerang wrote: »

Surprised you'd think her coat is horrible and dirty, garkane. She looks like your average moggie to me. :P .

She's beautiful, and i wouldn't have guessed feral because she looks so relaxed on a window sill.
I don't like the way people talk about feral cats, like they're a subspecies. They are all domesticated cats, just some of them have to fend for themselves and don't like humans (and frankly I tend to agree with them).
We're talking about 2 ends of a scale here - pampered pets at one end, so called 'ferals' at the other, and in the middle are all the farms cats who get fed but more or less look after themselves. There is no difference in my mind between shooting any of these, the whole idea is twisted and sick.

Discodog

boomerang wrote: »

. I defy anyone to tell the difference.

You shouldn't have put the spoiler there

doctor evil wrote: »

I seriously doubt tourism would fall through the floor if the number of ferals were reduced. Tourists do not come for the cats!

But many of them will own a pet cat. One of the reasons why Bullfighting is declining in Spain is because it has gone from tourist attraction to tourist turn off.

A mass killing of cats may seem OK to a few, or are they just stirring the pot, but it would be abhorrent to the majority both here & abroad.

kylith

Traonach wrote: »

Nobody keeps mink and grey Squirrel as pets. The problem with culling feral cats is that pet cats will be killed. If there was a nationwide bounty plenty of pet cats would be shot/trapped. There are loads of hunters who wouldn't have a problem with killing pet cats (even if they knew they were pets). That's the problem (IMO).

The risk of that would be greatly reduced if a law were simultaneously introduced regarding keeping cats from roaming. If your cat's in your house,or in a run in your garden, it won't get killed.

Myrddin

Domestic cats roam by nature, they have their own paths through areas & the boundaries of 'their patch' are determined through social interaction etc. Provided the cat is neutered/spayed, & kept up to date with needles, there should be no problem whatsoever letting a cat 'roam'.

Unlike the public paths & parks that are covered in dog sh1te, cats often have specific spots to do their business, & often dig a small hole & cover it in when done. This can be a nuisance to neighbours I do agree, flowerbeds etc can be disturbed. But that is the nature of cats, it can't be changed & people need to make the distinction between cats & dogs.

I'm not bashing dogs here either, I like dogs & appreciate they have their own entirely different social setup. But unlike cats, dogs have lost all of their natural instincts due to domestication, so its that bit easier to make your dog less of a nuisance. You can walk them, clean up after them, they don't tend to roam etc. Cats retain a certain independance & survivability that means things like roaming can't be stopped.

It basically boils down to people not understanding them, and/or not bothering to even try. I've had cats & dogs, & although the relationship is different, cats are every bit as capable of having a great relationship with their owner.

Better kill them all though, to be safe from ya know, curses & stuff.

kylith

Traonach wrote: »

You would live in fear, if your cat escaped it would be killed. You couldn't have a cat then.

Kind of like if your dog escapes now you run the risk of them being euthanised in the pound?

kildare.17hmr

kylith wrote: »

Traonach wrote: »

You would live in fear, if your cat escaped it would be killed. You couldn't have a cat then.

Kind of like if your dog escapes now you run the risk of them being euthanised in the pound?

Exactly the point i was going to make.! Also your dog is in danger of getting knocked down on a road, having a banger shoved down its throath, worrying sheep and meeting the farmer. Do you live in fear of that so dont have a dog?

Plenty of posters here manage to keep their cats confined to their gardens with no problem the same way most of us keep our dogs in. If you really wanted to you would.

Your argument is not a good one

And just a note on the squirells, my mother has 2 friends who love the gray squirels in their gardens, feed them and treat them just like most people treat their cats!

Posy

Signed!

Discodog

kylith wrote: »

Kind of like if your dog escapes now you run the risk of them being euthanised in the pound?

Er No because my dogs have name tags & microchips. The likelihood of them escaping is incredible low & they will come back when they are called.

Cats are totally different animals. You cannot apply the same law to completely different species that exhibit different behaviour.

kylith

Discodog wrote: »

Er No because my dogs have name tags & microchips. The likelihood of them escaping is incredible low & they will come back when they are called.

Cats are totally different animals. You cannot apply the same law to completely different species that exhibit different behaviour.

Yes you can: dogs are not allowed to roam, neither are horses, cattle, ferrets, or snakes. They manage to keep much larger cats confined in zoos; how can so many people deem it impossible to keep a tabby indoors?

boomerang

Because for most people, it seems like too much work. It's so much easier to let them poop and entertain themselves outside.

Discodog

boomerang wrote: »

Because for most people, it seems like too much work. It's so much easier to let them poop and entertain themselves outside.

Yes it is & it has been that way since cats were domesticated. Also the majority of cat owners honestly believe that their cats are better off outdoors than being caged. This isn't going to change soon or easily. It is a totally hypothetical argument that will likely never become fact.

I am totally for animal welfare but you cannot suddenly impose such a dramatic change. I know of many rural cats that sleep in the house but are allowed out via the catdoor & are free to roam the garden & adjacent fields. I don't think that their owners are being in the least bit irresponsible.

I would be concerned that if ever the idea of containing cats was proposed by welfare groups it would be seen as totally wacko & would damage the cause as a whole.

boomerang

I'm not saying it should become a legal requirement of cat owners, DD, but simply explaining why more people don't confine their cats.

Suggesting that indoor-only cats or cats with access to a confined area outdoors equates to being "caged" is a bit OTT. It creates more work for the owner in terms of cleaning up and stimulating the cats, but it often works beautifully. I know some very happy cats who live this way.

Studies have shown that the home range of a neutered, domestic cat is surprisingly small - no more than a few doors down, in the case of females. Not a huge difference in not letting them go further than your own garden, which offers the same inducements as all the others!

Discodog

Oh I agree but we are not the people that would have to be persuaded to change. The vast majority of cat owners think differently & they are not going to change overnight even if a law were introduced.

angry kitten

Wow, the response to this thread has shocked me. It was posted to make people aware of the petitions existence, so that anyone interested in signing and helping feral cats could do so. What it became was a free for all of cat haters hijacking it to vent their spleens and suggesting that rather than help feral cats they be killed instead.

I have to say that reading the comments people posted favouring killing cats makes me feel thoroughly ashamed to be Irish. What a wonderful, charitable animal loving nation we are.

Discodog

Boards is a representative sample of Irish society & there are people who would kill cats & some who already shoot, what they say are, feral cats.

I always find it strange that people will ask if you are a dog person or a cat person. The dislike of cats goes way back in history.

kildare.17hmr

angry kitten wrote: »

I have to say that reading the comments people posted favouring killing cats makes me feel thoroughly ashamed to be Irish. What a wonderful, charitable animal loving nation we are.

in fairness we have much bigger problems to take care of than giving protection status to a non native pest species.

Pet cats yes i would agree with the patition but imo ferals should be left as they are now. Wether or not they have come from domestic cats they are now wild. TNR will not solve the problem and will only take care of small proportion

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

Boards is a representative sample of Irish society & there are people who would kill cats & some who already shoot, what they say are, feral cats.

I think thats a bit unfair--Can you prove that this is going on?

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Pet cats yes i would agree with the patition but imo ferals should be left as they are now. Wether or not they have come from domestic cats they are now wild. TNR will not solve the problem and will only take care of small proportion

Finally I agree with you on something--The feral problem needs dealing with while protecting peoples pets.

angry kitten

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

in fairness we have much bigger problems to take care of than giving protection status to a non native pest species.

Pet cats yes i would agree with the patition but imo ferals should be left as they are now. Wether or not they have come from domestic cats they are now wild. TNR will not solve the problem and will only take care of small proportion

Ah the milk of human kindness. Alive and well in Ireland.