petition - cats reclassified from vermin

Discodog

Shane Fitz wrote: »

So To follow your logic, we should do TNR on stray dogs also, as they are only abandoned pets.
Or why not apply the rules as used with stray dogs, ie caught and if not claimed within a period of time they are PTS. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Because it is impractical & impossible. Dogs are effectively taken in, neutered & rehomed but we still kill thousands. Do you really think that the LA's would appoint cat wardens ?

kildare.17hmr

I dont doubt you planetX im just saying the ones i know for the most part dont want them around

homerhop

planetX wrote: »

50% of the calls I had for the cats I was rehoming were from farmers looking for barn cats (refused them as they weren't willing to neuter...)

Do you know how many of them were livestock farmers?
Just curious as some of my family are grain farmers and like to see a cat or 2 around the yard, and the others have livestock and dont.

kylith

Discodog wrote: »

Yes but when they don't the welfare of those animals become the responsibility of all of us. Whatever the origins of a Feral cat you cannot escape the fact that it was put there by society & the same society has the obligation to ensure that it is treated humanely.

Yes, it is a man made problem and it needs a man made solution, but I really don't see how TNR can even begin to make a dent in the population of feral cats when so many people refuse to 1) neuter their pets and/or 2) keep their pets on their own property. When the animals treated by TNR die instead of the colony dying out they are simply replaced by the next generation of dumped kitties. I'd love to see some statistics on how many colonies of feral cats have been cleared by a TNR policy.

If people knew that by letting their cat wander they were taking the same risk as a person with a wandering dog; i.e. that there's a good chance it'll be picked up, brought to the pound and euthanised after a waiting period, then some of them at least would take pains to keep their pets on their own property; which is all any of us are asking for.

Again; if my dog was getting through my fence, fouling in and digging up your garden you would feel yourself perfectly entitled to complain. If those of us who have the same problem with cats dare to open our mouths we get told 'it's what cats do' and get labelled as animal haters, simply for asking people to be considerate of others and keep their animals on their own property.

If anyone is annoyed by a neighbour's cat then take it up with the neighbour & don't take it out on the cat. There are no laws controlling the confinement of domestic cats & there aren't going to be any so there is no point in getting angry about something that you cannot change.

It's a sad state of affairs when people's defence is that there's no law saying they have to take proper care of their pets.

planetX

homerhop wrote: »

Do you know how many of them were livestock farmers?
Just curious as some of my family are grain farmers and like to see a cat or 2 around the yard, and the others have livestock and dont.

no grain farmers in these parts - cattle or sheep.

Hellrazer

planetX wrote: »

I was so shocked when it dawned on me that the animal and pets board is actually a hotbed of hatred for the 2nd most popular pet animal. Constant references to poisoning, shooting have borne this out time and time again. :mad:

I think youre being very unfair to the forum with a broad statement such as this.

angry kitten

Hellrazer wrote: »

As opposed to people suggesting that we allow idiots with guns to take pot shots at them.

Enough of the anti-hunting posts.This thread is not about hunting.There are also rules regarding soap boxing and pushing an agenda constantly.Consider this a warning.

The reference to hunting was in response to the people who suggested hunters be allowed to kill cats. Also to the person who admitted to shooting cats while he/she is out hunting. Was a warning issued to that poster or was the post moved to the hunting forum? No it wasn't. As for my pushing an agenda I find it extremely unfair. I disagreed with the opinions of 1 moderator and stood my ground on my point and now I find myself coming to the attention of another moderator, seemingly for having an opinion.

I'm only surprised I haven't been silenced earlier. Incidently, I agree with other posters in that the post by the banned poster should be removed to deter others from trying what was suggested. I've seen comments removed from boards when people have made defamatory remarks about various businesses why the double standard?

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

But surely it is better that those views are out in the open for all to see. I would hate to see this forum become totally one sided. You can only argue against such views if people are free to post them in the first place.

planetX wrote: »

very true, we should all be free to post our views.

As long as those views sick to the rules of the forum you can post whatever views you like.

Discodog

If there were a simple solution it would of been adopted years ago. The facts are that TNR is very expensive & time consuming. Shooting is a total no no because of all the risk. Licensing, microchipping, or compulsory neutering are unenforceable.

Sometimes there are no solutions. Maybe we have to accept it or personally do something about it even though few people will follow our lead.

angry kitten

Shane Fitz wrote: »

So To follow your logic, we should do TNR on stray dogs also, as they are only abandoned pets.
Or why not apply the rules as used with stray dogs, ie caught and if not claimed within a period of time they are PTS. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Dogs have a pack mentality and are also prone to attack. We're talking about 2 different species. Do I believe abandoned dogs should be killed, no I certainly don't. I think as a society we have a moral responsibility to animals. Yesterday I saw a beautiful pedigree dog running around on the green out the front of my house.
Not sure of the breed but one of the husky type. She was obviously on heat and was surrounded by 3 other dogs. I dread to think what will happen to her pups. Somebody was quite happy to pay a lot of money for her and since she's an un - neutered adult female, presumably they intend to turn her into a puppy factory.

Shane Fitz

Discodog wrote: »

Shane Fitz wrote: »

So To follow your logic, we should do TNR on stray dogs also, as they are only abandoned pets.
Or why not apply the rules as used with stray dogs, ie caught and if not claimed within a period of time they are PTS. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Because it is impractical & impossible. Dogs are effectively taken in, neutered & rehomed but we still kill thousands. Do you really think that the LA's would appoint cat wardens ?

Why not broaden the role of existing dog wardens?

And you know full well I was only showing the double standard.
Far too many stray dogs are PTS in pounds around the country due to negligent owners. Yet when the same is suggest for the stray cat problem there is holy war.. Catch as many stray cats as possible and if unclaimed after a period then PTS.
Sure if your beloved pet is collared, tagged or chipped with contact details then you could reclaim it. Or better still don't loose the damned thing. As responsible dog owners have found out, the right to have the pet of your choice, including RB's, entails certain responsibilities.
Cat owners should be held responsible for their cats.... Simple as!

Shane Fitz

angry kitten wrote: »

Yesterday I saw a beautiful pedigree dog running around on the green out the front of my house.
Not sure of the breed but one of the husky type. She was obviously on heat and was surrounded by 3 other dogs. I dread to think what will happen to her pups. Somebody was quite happy to pay a lot of money for her and since she's an un - neutered adult female, presumably they intend to turn her into a puppy factory.

An awful lot of assumption there....
FYI. the spitz breeds are notorious escapologists
How dou you KNOW it was an intact female on heat, you just admitted dogs are pack orientated.
Yes a pedigree spitz breed would be expensive. However there are many non-pedigree dogs out there.
And finally, "puppy factory" really!! Just really ffs!

Hellrazer

angry kitten wrote: »

The reference to hunting was in response to the people who suggested hunters be allowed to kill cats. Also to the person who admitted to shooting cats while he/she is out hunting.

But the thread is not about hunting--its about reclassifiction of cats.

Was a warning issued to that poster or was the post moved to the hunting forum? No it wasn't.

Why would I do that??The poster never said they hunted cats--they said they hunted feral cats which is completely ok in line with the rules of the forum.

As for my pushing an agenda I find it extremely unfair. I disagreed with the opinions of 1 moderator and stood my ground on my point and now I find myself coming to the attention of another moderator, seemingly for having an opinion.

This isnt the first time youve come to my attention--You were warned a couple of weeks ago for posting a thread that I deleted twice.

I'm only surprised I haven't been silenced earlier.

Im not even going to respond to that conspiracy theory.

Incidently, I agree with other posters in that the post by the banned poster should be removed to deter others from trying what was suggested. I've seen comments removed from boards when people have made defamatory remarks about various businesses why the double standard?

Ive explained my reasons for leaving the post there.

As for defamatory remarks--They are removed for a completely different reason.

Now back on topic.

angry kitten

I absolutely agree that cat owners should be held to account for their pets. Both of my cats are vaccinated, microchipped, neutered and have pet insurance. 1 was abandoned and showed up in our garden emaciated and with a growth sticking out of his ear that had grown down through his ear canal. He had a ragged collar on him when he arrived and if I ever found the person who allowed him to get into that state then woe betide them. The other was a feral kitten who showed up a year later, again emaciated and unwanted.

We're an animal loving family and every animal we've ever had has come from the pound or just wandered in and adopted us. I walk everywhere and every day I have to negotiate my way around dog crap, I had to go out and hose down my front garden yesterday as somebodies dog had been crapping all over it. I don't blame the dog, its what dogs do, but I wouldn't approach the owner even if I knew who it was as the Dog Warden for Clare has to have a police escort in parts of this town due to aggressive owners.

angelfire9

Shane Fitz wrote: »

Why not broaden the role of existing dog wardens?

And you know full well I was only showing the double standard.
Far too many stray dogs are PTS in pounds around the country due to negligent owners. Yet when the same is suggest for the stray cat problem there is holy war.. Catch as many stray cats as possible and if unclaimed after a period then PTS.
Sure if your beloved pet is collared, tagged or chipped with contact details then you could reclaim it. Or better still don't loose the damned thing. As responsible dog owners have found out, the right to have the pet of your choice, including RB's, entails certain responsibilities.
Cat owners should be held responsible for their cats.... Simple as!

Easier said than done with cats
My cat can open the house windows without any help which is something your average dog is not capable of :rolleyes:
(and before you say it all the downstairs windows in this house are locked but you cannot lock an upstairs bedroom window for safety)

When i come home from shopping he sometimes tears down the stairs and out the front door as I am coming in like a miniature hurricane unstoppable most dogs will stop and greet their owners cats generally don't :rolleyes:

Prior to enclosing our back garden we moved everything he could jump up on to assist his escapes (i.e. the bins and coal bunker etc) into the middle of the garden and my little lunatic climbed the kids swingset and jumped from the top of it over our 8ft wall into the neighbours garden :pac:

He can also claw his way up the side of the shed when thus inclined:cool:
Our back garden now resembles a prison yard with wire fencing all along the tops of the walls and he still OCCASSIONALLY gets out (i've yet to figure out where)

This is a neutered Tom
In summary: Cats are escape artists:P

angry kitten

Hellrazer wrote: »

But the thread is not about hunting--its about reclassifiction of cats.



Why would I do that??The poster never said they hunted cats--they said they hunted feral cats which is completely ok in line with the rules of the forum.





This isnt the first time youve come to my attention--You were warned a couple of weeks ago for posting a thread that I deleted twice.





Im not even going to respond to that conspiracy theory.




Ive explained my reasons for leaving the post there.

As for defamatory remarks--They are removed for a completely different reason.

Now back on topic.

You will recall that at the time I told you that I reposted it as I thought that I'd accidentally deleted it myself. How exactly do they know that the cats are feral. Have they spoken to the landowners to enquire as to whether the cat is a farm cat or that the farmer wants the cat? You will recall that you didn't inform me the first time you removed that post. If you had then the confusion could have been avoided

kildare.17hmr

angry kitten wrote: »

How exactly do they know that the cats are feral. Have they spoken to the landowners to enquire as to whether the cat is a farm cat or that the farmer wants the cat?

if you want to start a thread in hunting ill tell you all about it but in answer to your question yes i spoke to the landowner, it was infact the land owner that requested it just as he would have the right to do were it a dog. Ill say no more about it here because its the wrong forum for it

Discodog

Shane Fitz wrote: »

Why not broaden the role of existing dog wardens?

Try suggesting the idea to a dog warden :eek:

All the LA's have cut back on dog wardens. I believe that there is now one for the whole of county Galway. Have you ever tried to catch a nervous or feral cat ? Catching one cat could easily take you a week during which you would be going backwards & forwards searching locations etc. Including the Vet fee the cost per cat would be astronomic.

I believe that the only workable idea is to put a welfare tax on all Pet products with a guarantee that it would only go to welfare. Start at 5% & increase each year to a maximum of 20%. That would yield a huge amount of money to help the stray cats & dogs.

Discodog

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

if you want to start a thread in hunting ill tell you all about

If we started a thread in hunting it would soon be closed We welcome shooters here but I don't think it works the other way around.

Shane Fitz

Discodog wrote: »

........... the cost per cat would be astronomic.

A point 22 round only cost a few cents!!

excaliburhc

Shane Fitz wrote: »

A point 22 round only cost a few cents!!

nice very nice .


Mods
is this worth closing at this stage - i only wanted to raise awareness of something that affects alot of people within these forums ,
regardless of peoples opinions on cats i assumed they would have enough respect to realize that they are pets , members of families and deserve the same protection as dogs .

the cat problem is one of our creation not the cats. they are not indigenous to ireland and amount of strays is due to irresponsible owners .

killing them is not the answer . classifing is the first step (i believe) to licensing and better controls - something i imagine everyone would be on board with.

( i would be pushing this for all animals if i could)

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

If we started a thread in hunting it would soon be closed We welcome shooters here but I don't think it works the other way around.

You have pulled that "we cant post there" card before Discodog
There are a few people who post in the hunting forum on a regular basis who are opposed to aspects of it.There are members here who have posted there looking for information and have been treated with the utmost respect,you have posted there yourself. Posters are welcome to post there once they post in a respectful manner. The mods there take zero tolerance to silly name calling or snide comments in debates such as this one.

kildare.17hmr

Discodog wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

if you want to start a thread in hunting ill tell you all about

If we started a thread in hunting it would soon be closed We welcome shooters here but I don't think it works the other way around.

Now thats not true at all is it.

Discodog

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Now thats not true at all is it.

From the Hunting forum charter. Seems pretty true to me.

This is a hunting forum so if you're anti-hunting, don't post and don't read any posts;

Discodog

Shane Fitz wrote: »

A point 22 round only cost a few cents!!

Maybe but the identification & removal of all pets, the attendance of a Vet, the adverse publicity, the cost of compensation when you shoot a pet etc.

The final bill could be a much as TNR.

kildare.17hmr

Discodog wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Now thats not true at all is it.

From the Hunting forum charter. Seems pretty true to me.

This is a hunting forum so if you're anti-hunting, don't post and don't read any posts;

Now you know well that is a warning not to make anti hunting statements :rolleyes: if a poster from here went over there and asked a genuine question it will be answered and the thread will not be closed

Cherry Blossom

angry kitten wrote: »

I'm very surprised at your tone adrenalinjunkie, your function as a moderator seems to be overshadowed by your hatred of cats. Incidently I haven't insulted anyone.

LOL at the cat hatred comment followed in quick succession by a claim that you haven't insulted anyone :pac: - my cat is curled up on the couch snoring his little head off. For someone who advocates releasing what they deem to be domestic animals into the wild to be killed under the wheels of a car, wrapped around someone's engine, used for 'entertainment' by idiot kids etc, etc, that's a bit rich to be honest :rolleyes:

As for people who are throwing the 'so called pet-lovers' phrase around. I find it laughable that so called pet-lovers do them the injustice of leaving them open to the dangers listed above and have no problem with it whatsoever and so called 'animal welfare' organisations who send cats off to people who openly admit they are not going to keep the animal contained on their property for it's own safety and then have the audacity to accuse anyone else of anything. I've killed a handful of cats in my time due to being unable to avoid them on the road. I find it completely disgusting and abhorrent that other people have forced this situation on me though complete and utter neglect of what are supposed to be members of their immediate family (if they are not then they are their descendants).

Very few of us here will have the benefit of a fast, pain-free death, what on earth is so wrong with us doing this justice for the animals we supposedly love and have done us so much service? Sure why would we do that when we can leave them out high and dry to die a long drawn out painful death, what a great way to end an already miserable and wretched existence for an animal whose ancestors were 'supposedly' one of mankind's greatest companions. Death is the ultimate release from pain and suffering, this is why we afford our own pets this small courtesy when their quality of life falls below a point we deem acceptable. I'm sure you are not going to tell me you would rather watch your your own pets suffer in agony than do them this service so why are so against affording the same courtesy to someone else's abandoned pets? It's completely illogical and the only reason I can think of is that people allow their own emotions to get in the way of doing what is best by the animal, it's no different to stuffing a dog full of chocolate because 'he likes it'.

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

From the Hunting forum charter. Seems pretty true to me.

This is a hunting forum so if you're anti-hunting, don't post and don't read any posts;

Now you are just being silly Discodog you are well aware that that was put up for all those who went in there starting posts that hunters are cruel and what ever other terms they like to use. Whats the difference between that and the API charter???

This is a general animal & pets forum for pet owners and animal lovers, discussion of bloodsports (including hunting with dogs, hare-coursing and carted stag hunting) is upsetting to many users of this fourm, threads on these topics will be locked or moved to the appropriate forum. The hunting forum can be found here and the angling forum is here


I really had thought you had grown out of that phase but just for you seeing as it was a thread you took part in over there that the mods took zero crap in hence it got locked the mod warning that had been posted http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69955097&postcount=12


and for those who dont want to go in there the warning said

Mod notice: read before posting.
Firstly, this thread can make for an interesting and good debate, but only if posters keep a level head and refrain from insulting each. The first sign of this and the post(s) will be removed and poster infracted. This also includes "biting satire" or any other post that is designed to illicit a reaction.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog - you will stop these attempts at baiting other posters from here on in or you will find yourself unable to access this thread.

To everyone who is taking part in this forum charter war or whatever it is - get back to the topic of the thread please.

boomerang

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

It is completely unfair that you would ask questions of a poster in this forum that their reply may get them banned - ask these questions by PM or in an appropriate forum.

I honestly wasn't trying to catch the poster out, or have him flamed. I just want to understand everyone's point of view. I would have found the answers very helpful. I have read a great deal of impartial, scientific research on feral cats, and so far there is nothing to suggest that they are the vermin they are perceived to be. That's why I'm curious.